USAF looks for new ejector seat

[ORAC]

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-air-force-begins-search-for-next-generation-eject-456612/US Air Force begins search for Next Generation Ejection Seat
The US Air Force started a market assessment to identify potential sources for its Next Generation Ejection Seat.

The service is looking for a modern ejection seat replacement to be installed in a variety of aircraft, including the Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II, McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle, Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, F-22 Raptor and Rockwell B-1 Lancer, it says in an online announcement. The competition has not yet been officially opened and the USAF did not announce a date when it would start accepting bids.

Likely bidders for the forthcoming competition include Martin-Baker and Collins Aerospace, two of the US military’s leading suppliers of ejection seats.

The USAF wants a seat that can safely handle ejecting a pilot with a weight range of 62.6kg (138lb) to 153kg (337lb). Total weight includes aircrew nude weight, aircrew flight equipment weight and survival kit weight.

The USAF’s requirements specifies the seat should be able to eject at speeds up to 600kt (1,111km/h) and at altitudes from 0ft to 60,000ft. The recovery parachute’s vertical descent velocity should not exceed 1,380ft/min (7.01m/s), and should be steerable to a minimum turn rate of 20°/s.

[Davef68]

Ears prick up in Oxfordshire

[SASless]

You forgot about the size and weight of Men's Wallets and Ladies Purses in the new politically correct bonus happy USAF.

[oldmansquipper]

SASLess. This competition has been 'ongoing' for some time. Some serious lobbying of USG has (allegedly) been going on in attempts to keep the contract 'in (Dons) house'. The following self explanatory open letter to Forbes Magazine makes very interesting (if you are that way inclined) reading. I believe it was published.

LETTER TO THE EDITOR OF FORBES - Martin-Baker (http://martin-baker.com/2018/11/29/letter-editor-forbes/)

False news? Level playing field? Protectionism? - I couldn't possibly comment.

[Lonewolf_50]

Is it too much to ask, ORAC, for you to use the correct terminology in your title?
You wrote: USAF looks for new ejector seat
The title is: US Air Force begins search for Next Generation Ejection Seat
In the US, we call them ejection seats. Given that it's the USAF who is the topic of the article ...

Or were you in such a hurry to cut and paste that you could not be bothered to check for accuracy?
(Yeah, I have fallen afoul of that myself in the past ...)

[CONSO]

You forgot about the size and weight of Men's Wallets and Ladies Purses in the new politically correct bonus happy USAF.

To avoid discrimination I'm sure you also meant mens purses and ladies wallets ;)

[ORAC]

I didn’t cut and paste - I used the words I wished.......

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.”

[MightyGem]

in a variety of aircraft, including the Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II
A 10 still going strong then. :ok:

[Ascend Charlie]

weight range of 62.6kg (138lb) to 153kg (337lb). Total weight includes aircrew nude weight, aircrew flight equipment weight and survival kit weight.

Subtract the weight of the flight equipment and the survival kit from 62.6 Kg and you have a VERY light-weight nude pilot.

Pictures, please Slasher.....

[Lonewolf_50]

Subtract the weight of the flight equipment and the survival kit from 62.6 Kg and you have a VERY light-weight nude pilot.

Pictures, please Slasher..... Only if said picture is of a she. Slasher only swung one way, as I recall.

[sandiego89]

A 10 still going strong then. :ok:

Guess so. The A-10 retirement keeps getting moved to the right, and I thought the B-1 sundown would be happening as the B-21 comes on line. Bet the A-10 and B-1 retain their current ejection seats until retirement.

[Fonsini]

I wonder what the acceleration numbers are like on the latest seats, spinal injuries were very common on early “bang” seats with their huge initial acceleration, but the later rocket seats helped immensely. I recall reading that experiments with soft seat cushions as opposed to hard cushions actually resulted in worse injuries.

Ejection seat technology is fascinating.

[Blossy]

At the end of the day (which appears to be of infinite length!) it will come down to 'nice to have' or 'must have' in the minds of the brass hats.

[NutLoose]

They will be dusting down the old meat box :)

[Tankertrashnav]

Lonewolf - ejector/ejections seats? You say flight suit, we say flying suit, you say airplane we say aeroplane, you say (eg) 214th Squadron, we say 214 Squadron, etc. Does it really matter? We both know what the other is talking about. :)

[Lonewolf_50]

Here's a reason why to get it right, TTN.
A Triple Ejector Rack (http://marvineng.com/product/ter-9a-triple-ejector-rack/) carries bombs.
See also here (http://www.seaforces.org/usnair/VA/Attack-Squadron-15-Dateien/image115.jpg)

The Ejection seat carries the bomber(as in, the person bombing).
If you spend enough time in the military you learn the need for correct terminology.

[Just This Once...]

We say 'EJECT'; you say 'BAILOUT'.

We do of course, bail-out water from the bottom of the survival dingy to stop our bottoms getting wet. Conversely, you get your fannies wet, which can surprise us.

None of this matters.

[Herod]

Lonewolf; Expect incoming from TTN. I suspect he has more military time than you. And on a real aeroplane (English spelling) to boot.

[Lonewolf_50]

We say 'EJECT'; you say 'BAILOUT'.
You are mistaken.
We say eject on aircraft with ejection seats.
We say bail out on aircraft without them.
Just so that you understand the difference, for over 30 years the USN's primary trainer was the T-34C, which required a bail out under various conditions. For 20 or so years before that, the T-28 B and C were also bail out/parachute equipped primary training aircraft.
At the same time, the advanced trainers -- T-2, TA-4, then T-45, were all ejection seat aircraft.

Likewise the T-37/Tweet. Primary training, ejection seat, and we still say eject. Likewise in the T-6 Texan II.

Old adage among the American carrier pilots: "There are those who have ejected, and those who will."

@Herod: Our military has DOPMA, yours does not.
After 25 years, my up or out choice was to choose to stay until 28, one last assignment somewhere else, or to hang up the cleats and stay where I was.
With the kids settled in schools, and the wife finishing her degree, it was time. I was never going to be an admiral.
Bring it.

[golfbananajam]

Lonewolf_50 I suspect the real difference here is that we speak English and you don't

hat coat etc

[Blohm]

You are mistaken.
We say eject on aircraft with ejection seats.
We say bail out on aircraft without them.
Just so that you understand the difference, for over 30 years the USN's primary trainer was the T-34C, which required a bail out under various conditions. For 20 or so years before that, the T-28 B and C were also bail out/parachute equipped primary training aircraft.
At the same time, the advanced trainers -- T-2, TA-4, then T-45, were all ejection seat aircraft.

Likewise the T-37/Tweet. Primary training, ejection seat, and we still say eject. Likewise in the T-6 Texan II.

Old adage among the American carrier pilots: "There are those who have ejected, and those who will."

@Herod: Our military has DOPMA, yours does not.
After 25 years, my up or out choice was to choose to stay until 28, one last assignment somewhere else, or to hang up the cleats and stay where I was.
With the kids settled in schools, and the wife finishing her degree, it was time. I was never going to be an admiral.
Bring it.any premature ejeculation, ehm... I mean ejection?

[ORAC]

I am reminded of the old joke of the Englishman who walks up and ask an American standing in a hotel lobby, “excuse me, is this the express lift?

”Elevator”, replies the American, “we invented the elevator”.

“Lift”, responded the Englishman, “we invented the language”.

[ORAC]

The first ejector seat was patented by the British inventor Everard Calthrop who patented a pneumatic ejector seat in 1916.....

[Thud105]

According to Martin-Baker (who, I think we all agree, should know) they make Ejection Seats.

[downsizer]

I think it's safe to say this thread sums up the uselessness of this forum these days.....

[sandiego89]

Lonewolf - ejector/ejections seats? You say flight suit, we say flying suit, you say airplane we say aeroplane, you say (eg) 214th Squadron, we say 214 Squadron, etc. Does it really matter? We both know what the other is talking about. :)

I can live with most of those differences, but "afterburner" sounds so much better than "reheat". Reheat sounds like something you do when your tea gets cold....

And don't get me started on how to spell tires....:)

[oldmansquipper]

According to Martin-Baker (who, I think we all agree, should know) they make Ejection Seats.


indeed, and very very good they are too!

[Tankertrashnav]

Blimey, I didnt think I'd start all this when I posted my light-hearted comment above!

Lonewolf; Expect incoming from TTN. I suspect he has more military time than you. And on a real aeroplane (English spelling) to boot.

We say eject on aircraft with ejection seats.
We say bail out on aircraft without them.

Ironically, on the V Force, as is well-known, only the pilots had ejector (sic) seats, we second-class citizens down the back had to bail out!

And don't get me started on how to spell tires....:)

I remember seeing an advert for "tires" in an British magazine from the 1890s. I think a lot of these so-called "American" spellings are in fact old English spellings which we have changed but which the ever conservative Americans have retained.

Anyway, bye for now, I'm "tired" ;)

[OldnDaft]

I think it's safe to say this thread sums up the uselessness of this forum these days.....
Almost as useless as E-Goat.....

[Ewan Whosearmy]

You are mistaken.
We say eject on aircraft with ejection seats.
We say bail out on aircraft without them.


Who's 'we'?

I've flown with the USAF, and it uses "Bailout" as the command to eject. It uses "Egress" as the command to unstrap and get out in a ground emergency.

I have also flown with the US Navy and seem to recall they used the exact same terminology, but I stand ready to be corrected.

The RAF uses "Eject".

Honestly, if you're going to be such a pedant, get your own stuff right first!

[tucumseh]

I think it's safe to say this thread sums up the uselessness of this forum these days.....

Indeed. What we need is a good-going ejection/ejector seat thread about the HSE's new admission that it did not review the exculpatory evidence in the Red Arrows/Cunningham case, but told the Judge it did and it was 'irrelevant'; why the Judge is happy with this; and why MoD denied having the information that would have saved Sean, knowing that it did and had instructed maintainers not to use it. Oh, and why Lincolnshire Police, faced last month with this fresh evidence, now deny all involvement - which might puzzle the MAA who had to wait 10 months before convening the Service Inquiry while Plod carried out their investigation. Somebody's lying, and it ain't Martin-Baker. Who happen to make very fine products and I hope win the US competition. That's if they run one.

[downsizer]

Almost as useless as E-Goat.....

True enough, not what it once was, but then you still drop by. ;)

[Lonewolf_50]

I've flown with the USAF, and it uses "Bailout" as the command to eject. It uses "Egress" as the command to unstrap and get out in a ground emergency.
I have also flown with the US Navy and seem to recall they used the exact same terminology, but I stand ready to be corrected.
The RAF uses "Eject".
Honestly, if you're going to be such a pedant, get your own stuff right first!
I already explained the difference, explicitly, in that very post. (Yeah, egress is indeed a commonly used term for ground exit).
As far as the USN goes, I know I am correct. Last time I was in a T-45 it was a briefing item. The call being "eject, eject, eject."
If the USAF has for some reason chosen to call for "bail out" rather than "eject" in ejection seat aircraft, that would be a surprise to me.
It's been over a decade since I last worked a joint training program. That (alleged) difference never came up, though a variety of other differences did.
I am going on my memory over yours. How long ago is your reference from?

As thud105 pointed out:
According to Martin-Baker (who, I think we all agree, should know) they make Ejection Seats.
@tucumseh: Martin Baker has a long and well established rep on this side of the pond. For good reasons. I have quite a few friends who have enjoyed an E-Ticket ride for real in a Martin Baker seat.
In a box somewhere, I've got a small caterpillar pin, and a card that shows that I have joined the caterpillar club. But that was a long time ago.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

I am going on my memory over yours. How long ago is your reference from?


USAF F-15 and F-16 starting 2002 and ending 2015.
USN F/A-18 2010 (once only, hence my willingness to stand corrected).

The Air Force doesn't use 'Eject' because it doesn't want confusion on the ground when 'Egress' is called. I believe they moved that model in the 1980s when an F-4 A/C called "Egress!" during a ground emergency, but the back seater heard "Eject" and pulled the handles. Sadly, the pilot had already started to unstrap and did not survive the ejection.

[Lonewolf_50]

USAF F-15 and F-16 starting 2002 and ending 2015.
USN F/A-18 2010 (once only, hence my willingness to stand corrected).

The Air Force doesn't use 'Eject' because it doesn't want confusion on the ground when 'Egress' is called. I believe they moved that model in the 1980s when an F-4 A/C called "Egress!" during a ground emergency, but the back seater heard "Eject" and pulled the handles. Sadly, the pilot had already started to unstrap and did not survive the ejection. Interesting perspective. My first brief on that was in 1978, in a T-2.
The brief was that if after I heard the third "eject" I was still in the aircraft, I was late already.