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Marekjefrajer
1st Mar 2019, 18:42
Hello everyone. I need a bit of a help with FAA regulations. I am an airline pilot under EASA but I am looking for some information concerning pilot training under FAA.

As far as I am concerned, there are either FAA-approved flight schools or certificated flight instructors. My question being, what are the documents regulating flight schools and certificated flight instructors (like Title 14: Aeronautics and Space, Part 61)?

Are these the only two means of obtaining flight training? Can certificated flight instructor offer flight instructions to anyone, while not being employed by any approved flight school? Does he need to have any approved manuals? Is there anything like not-certificated flight instructor as well?

If a certificated flight instructor is allowed to provide flight instructions outside of a flight school, can he provide flight training for all types of licenses, or for example only up to private pilot license, and, if a pilot wants to obtain a higher license (instrument rating, commercial pilot license, etc.), does he have to receive this training in an approved flight school? Does a certificated flight instructor have to have his own aircraft, or can he provide flight training on his client‘s aircraft?

To be more specific with my question, for example §61.109 Aeronautical experience says, that „(a)…a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training…“

Is the term authorized instructor equal to certificated flight instructor? Does an applicant have to fly those 20 hours with an instructor within an approved flight school or can it be with any certificated flight instructor, who might not be employed by any flight school? Last but not least, 40 hours total minus 20 with instructor minus 10 hours of solo flight training results in remaining 10 hours required for private pilot license. Is there any other regulation concerning these 10 hours?

If there is someone who can explain me the basic rules of FAA regulations, I would appreciate it very much!

Thanks in advance, Marek

LTCTerry
2nd Mar 2019, 00:54
Marek,

What training would you like to do?

In FAA land there are two types of flight training - Part 61 and Part 141. Part 141 is "an FAA approved school." But that doesn't mean Part 61 is bad. Part 61 is most flight training in the US. In most cases pilots who are not legal residents of the US must train at a Part 141 school that can process a visa application.

In the US, a Certificated Flight Instructor (CFI) is what EASA calls an FI(A). A CFI can have ratings for Airplane Single Engine Land, Airplane Multi-engine Land, Instrument, etc.

Simplistically, an "authorized instructor" is a CFI, with everything up-to-date, in an N-registered airplane. Foreign instruction "counts" for the most part.

A pilot with an EASA license can get a private pilot certificate issued under Part 61.75 that serves as the basis for further training. I believe that with your EASA ATPL you can get an FAA ATP rating. Do you have 1500 hours? You can do this in conjunction with a type rating. Others here will be much more knowledgeable about the process.

Hope this helps.

Terry

avionimc
2nd Mar 2019, 20:29
I am an airline pilot under EASA If you are already a pilot, and current, you only need to apply and have your EASA [country] ATPL (or CPL , IR or PPL as the case might be) verified by the FAA.

Fill out Form 8060-71 and email it with your request (simple cover letter) to the address provided at the bottom of the form.

Fill out FAA Form:
Form AC 8060-71 PDF (https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Form/AC8060-71.pdf)
Form AC 8060-71 - VERIFICATION OF AUTHENTICITY OF FOREIGN LICENSE AND MEDICAL CERTIFICATION (https://www.faa.gov/forms/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/186251)

Once your EASA license is verified, you will be notified by email. Then, get an appointment at the FSDO you selected, bring all your documents (logbooks, etc.). The inspector there will tell you exactly what you need to do. E.g.: take the FAA ATP written exam in your case, and a FAA Medical (even better if you have these already done, and bring them along). Here you go! Most likely you do not need a training provider (flight school). And, you do not need a visa, except for a visitor visa, or visa waiver (Europe). Next time you go to your sim session at FSI, CAE or else, have your FAA aircraft Type Rating added into your FAA Pilot Certificate (make sure they have a FAA Designated Pilot Examiner on hand, if outside the US). Good luck.

NB. KNOW-BEFORE-YOU-GO that's true for all pilot's activity!

custardpsc
16th Mar 2019, 21:04
If you are already a pilot, and current, you only need to apply and have your EASA [country] ATPL (or CPL , IR or PPL as the case might be) verified by the FAA.

Fill out Form 8060-71 and email it with your request (simple cover letter) to the address provided at the bottom of the form.

Fill out FAA Form:
Form AC 8060-71 PDF (https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Form/AC8060-71.pdf)
Form AC 8060-71 - VERIFICATION OF AUTHENTICITY OF FOREIGN LICENSE AND MEDICAL CERTIFICATION (https://www.faa.gov/forms/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/186251)

Once your EASA license is verified, you will be notified by email. Then, get an appointment at the FSDO you selected, bring all your documents (logbooks, etc.). The inspector there will tell you exactly what you need to do. E.g.: take the FAA ATP written exam in your case, and a FAA Medical (even better if you have these already done, and bring them along). Here you go! Most likely you do not need a training provider (flight school). And, you do not need a visa, except for a visitor visa, or visa waiver (Europe). Next time you go to your sim session at FSI, CAE or else, have your FAA aircraft Type Rating added into your FAA Pilot Certificate (make sure they have a FAA Designated Pilot Examiner on hand, if outside the US). Good luck.

NB. KNOW-BEFORE-YOU-GO that's true for all pilot's activity!

Not much of the above is in fact accurate and is at best misleading ... Verifying an EASA atpl will get you exactly a 61.75 private certificate based on your easa licence to which you can add your IR if you take the foreign pilot intrument writte test. You will not get ATPL privileges. You will need a BFR. To progress further you will need a visa and TSA clearance ( a 61.75 is NOT an initial certificate and you need TSA for any training to acheive a 'full' certificate) . You will need to meet in full the detailled hours requirements in part 61 for initial ATP issue. You will need the ATP written which you can't take with out the course ATP-CTP completion certificate. You will need to take the ATP check ride.in full. Your EASA medical can be used with the 61.75 for private usage but for the FAA ATP cert you will need a 3rd class medical to take the checkride and an appropriate class of medical (1 or 2 ) for commercial operations.

MarkerInbound
17th Mar 2019, 07:10
Hello everyone. I need a bit of a help with FAA regulations. I am an airline pilot under EASA but I am looking for some information concerning pilot training under FAA.

As far as I am concerned, there are either FAA-approved flight schools or certificated flight instructors. My question being, what are the documents regulating flight schools and certificated flight instructors (like Title 14: Aeronautics and Space, Part 61)?

An "approved school" operates under Part 141 so you may also hear the term "141 school." An approved school uses a more structured syllabus so there is some reduction in the hours required versus Part 61 training.

Are these the only two means of obtaining flight training? Can certificated flight instructor offer flight instructions to anyone, while not being employed by any approved flight school? Does he need to have any approved manuals? Is there anything like not-certificated flight instructor as well?

Yes, yes and no. In theory anyone could teach you to fly. However unless they are a CFI the time spent with them doesn't count.

If a certificated flight instructor is allowed to provide flight instructions outside of a flight school, can he provide flight training for all types of licenses, or for example only up to private pilot license, and, if a pilot wants to obtain a higher license (instrument rating, commercial pilot license, etc.), does he have to receive this training in an approved flight school? Does a certificated flight instructor have to have his own aircraft, or can he provide flight training on his client‘s aircraft?

CFI certificates have categories and ratings just like pilot certificates. A pilot could have a commercial SEL/MEL/glider pilot certificate but only have a CFI-glider and therefore only be able to instruct in gliders. I would say most CFIs start with a CFI airplane certificate. If the took their checkride in a SE airplane they would only be able to give instruction in SE aircraft. But they could instruct PVT, COMM or ATP level students. There is an additional checkride for a ME CFI and another written exam and checkride for an instrument instructor rating. Some of the instruction for an IR must be given by a CFI-I however the 3 hours instrument time for the PVT can be given by a plain CFI. A CFI could own their training aircraf or instruct in the student's aircraft. The normal situation is they work for a flight school either Part 61 or Part 141 and teach in the school's aircraft.

To be more specific with my question, for example §61.109 Aeronautical experience says, that „(a)…a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training…“

Is the term authorized instructor equal to certificated flight instructor? Does an applicant have to fly those 20 hours with an instructor within an approved flight school or can it be with any certificated flight instructor, who might not be employed by any flight school? Last but not least, 40 hours total minus 20 with instructor minus 10 hours of solo flight training results in remaining 10 hours required for private pilot license. Is there any other regulation concerning these 10 hours?

If there is someone who can explain me the basic rules of FAA regulations, I would appreciate it very much!

Thanks in advance, Marek

An authorized instructor is a CFI with the appropriate ratings. A CFI-G could not instruct in an airplane.

Yes, there is a gap in the required hours. Not many students are ready for their checkride at 40 hours. I recall hearing years back the average student had about 55-60 when they took their checkride under Part 61. The 3 hours X-c, 3 hours night and 3 hours hood time can overlap. As the holder of a foreign license you would have to figure out which of your foreign hours could count for the FAA requirements. The one thing for sure you would need is the 3 hours checkride preparation in the prior 2 months.

To the last post above, if you are taking an ATP checkride in a simulator you don't need any medical. Simulator training falls under Part 142 which has different requirements for instructors.

custardpsc
17th Mar 2019, 23:51
>An authorized instructor is a CFI with the appropriate ratings..

The official definition is below. Whilst you can count your EASA training towards requirements some things ( eg endorsements etc) require an authorised instructor. Part 61.1 defines this as(i) A person (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=24a80ca42ed148d527b7ddad982da95a&term_occur=2&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.1) who holds a ground instructor certificate issued under part 61 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/part-61) of this chapter and is in compliance with § 61.217, when conducting ground training (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=264d20db7c5576766253d7de7eb2a3d1&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.1) in accordance with the privileges and limitations of his or her ground instructor certificate;(ii) A person (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=24a80ca42ed148d527b7ddad982da95a&term_occur=3&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.1) who holds a flight instructor certificate issued under part 61 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/part-61) of this chapter and is in compliance with § 61.197, when conducting ground training (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=264d20db7c5576766253d7de7eb2a3d1&term_occur=2&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.1) or flight training (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=e96c0f0e3870d6fd041b6accab253916&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.1) in accordance with the privileges and limitations of his or her flight instructor certificate; or(iii) A person (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=24a80ca42ed148d527b7ddad982da95a&term_occur=4&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.1) authorized by the Administrator (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=0c265d2e5b0cc0d1944056607ecc5df4&term_occur=2&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.1) to provide ground training (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=264d20db7c5576766253d7de7eb2a3d1&term_occur=3&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.1) or flight training (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=e96c0f0e3870d6fd041b6accab253916&term_occur=2&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.1) under part 61, 121, 135, or 142 of this chapter when conducting ground training (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=264d20db7c5576766253d7de7eb2a3d1&term_occur=4&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.1) or flight training (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=e96c0f0e3870d6fd041b6accab253916&term_occur=3&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:D:Part:61:Subpart:A:6 1.1) in accordance with that authority.

custardpsc
17th Mar 2019, 23:55
Here is where you need to start - have a read of this

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/part-61/subpart-G

B2N2
18th Mar 2019, 00:07
According to the regs:

”Authorized instructor” - Instructor that holds FAA teaching credentials.

Part 61 - I can teach at a picnic table under a shade tree. Not required to use an “approved syllabus”.
i can use any and all available syllabus or make my own.

Part 141 - “FAA approved pilot school” needs inspected and approved classrooms, teaching aids, air conditioning, rest room facilities, weather briefing options (online or phone) and a syllabus which is approved for use by the supervising FAA inspector. This can be a commercially available or self made syllabus but it needs to be “approved”.
These schools are subject to stricter FAA oversight, record keeping requirements, record checks and flight instructor standardization requirements.

In an extreme case ( just to clarify the point) a part 61 school can employ a dozen Part time flight instructors who each use their own chosen syllabus to the best of their knowledge and ability.

Part 141 school - all instructors have received standardization training and use the same syllabus and are subject to stricter record keeping requirements and pass rates.

The school I worked for did not differentiate between Part 61 and Part 141 and treated ( and trained) everybody to Part 141 requirements.

Consider a Part 141 flightschool like a chain restaurant. They all offer the same menu and answer to corporate.

Part 61 can be ( not always is) like a local mom and pop restaurant.

Only Part 141 schools can train non-US students on a student visa.
Not counting green card holders.

MarcK
18th Mar 2019, 02:02
Only Part 141 schools can train non-US students on a student visa.Not counting green card holders.
A Part 61 instructor can train non-US students if he/she has registered as a "Flight Training Provider" with TSA. I don't know any Part 61 independent CFIs who have done that, though.

zondaracer
18th Mar 2019, 14:09
A Part 61 instructor can train non-US students if he/she has registered as a "Flight Training Provider" with TSA. I don't know any Part 61 independent CFIs who have done that, though.

Just to clarify, the TSA is not a visa issuing authority. Just because the TSA says that a student is cleared to train, does not mean that the student is legal to train in the eyes of USCIS. I have seen many cases where the TSA have approved foreigners on the visa waiver program to start training and I had to explain to flight school management that this was not legal. Now, if someone has a green card or another status visa that allows them to flight train, they can train at a part 61 school with TSA approval.

custardpsc
18th Mar 2019, 19:15
Zonda - the whole can of worms right there ! There are those who say only the M visa permits flight training. There are those who say that the visa status is mostly irrelevant to the training if less than 18hrs a week. You appear to occupy the pragmatic middle ground ( as do I) except that where is the difference between ESTA and a B1 visa? . And how does one determine factually if you can train on a particular visa - no definitive answer to that exists, no guidelines about what actually constitues training eg everything from an hour dual through a 5 hours float rating up to to a PPL or CPL course is training.! TSA will give you training approval as long as either a. you are out of the country or b. you can prove you are legally in the country ( entry stamp, any method including esta).

zondaracer
18th Mar 2019, 20:00
Custardpsc, my thoughts exactly!

havick
18th Mar 2019, 20:05
If pilots couldn’t train under the VWP then Flight safety and CAE would lose over 50% of their business.

It’s USCIS that lets you in the country, and TSA that allows a foreign person to train. It’s really as simple as that.

It’s not upto the flight school to determine a students alien status in the country. If a student doesn’t have a valid means to be in the country then the TSA won’t approve the training.

OzzieFlyer
19th Mar 2019, 04:17
Hi Marek. You might find this thread I started a few months ago handy. The guys were really helpful with some of my questions - and yes, it seems having a foreign ATP/L doesn't really matter that much over in the States, you'll need to do the ATP CTP course which I am currently looking at. Good luck.

Bugger. It appears I can't link to anything just yet. Look in my post history and/or search for the thread "ATP Course". Sorry!

selfin
19th Mar 2019, 10:03
havick, pursuit of a course of study by aliens admitted to the United States under the VWP, or a B-class visa, is expressly prohibited by statute. The relevant regulation and supplemental guidance is given in this (pdf link (http://www2.gtlaw.com/practices/immigration/news/2002/04/17INSMemo.pdf)) memorandum dated 12 Apr 2002 for regional directors et al from the Executive Associate Commissioner of the Immigration and Naturalization Service on the subject "prohibition of B-1 or B-2 nonimmigrants enrolling in a course of study prior to a change of nonimmigrant status."

8 CFR 214.2(b)(7) Enrollment in a course of study prohibited. An alien who is admitted as, or changes status to, a B-1 or B-2 nonimmigrant on or after April 12, 2002, or who files a request to extend the period of authorized stay in B-1 or B-2 nonimmigrant status on or after such date, violates the conditions of his or her B-1 or B-2 status if the alien enrolls in a course of study. Such an alien who desires to enroll in a course of study must either obtain an F-1 or M-1 nonimmigrant visa from a consular officer abroad and seek readmission to the United States, or apply for and obtain a change of status under section 248 of the Act and 8 CFR part 248. The alien may not enroll in the course of study until the Service has admitted the alien as an F-1 or M-1 nonimmigrant or has approved the alien's application under part 248 of this chapter and changed the alien's status to that of an F-1 or M-1 nonimmigrant.

havick
19th Mar 2019, 10:24
havick, pursuit of a course of study by aliens admitted to the United States under the VWP, or a B-class visa, is expressly prohibited by statute. The relevant regulation and supplemental guidance is given in this (pdf link (http://www2.gtlaw.com/practices/immigration/news/2002/04/17INSMemo.pdf)) memorandum dated 12 Apr 2002 for regional directors et al from the Executive Associate Commissioner of the Immigration and Naturalization Service on the subject "prohibition of B-1 or B-2 nonimmigrants enrolling in a course of study prior to a change of nonimmigrant status."

what’s the definition of a course of study then?

like I said why does the TSA even have the VWP as an option in their application?

is a type rating, or an ATP conversion a course of study?

Serious question. How do pretty much all the pilots in the world from VWP eligible countries get away with coming to FSI or CAE for a recurrent or type rating then?

**Edit - Just read the document. Pretty interesting. I suppose a recurrent training wouldn’t constitute a course of training, and perhaps borderline an initial type rating. Perhaps even a license conversion wouldn’t constitute a course of training if it’s straight to an ATP as technically there’s no training required just a written and test component (helicopter only as fixed wing needs ATP-CTP course). But the primary “intent” of the visit would have to be for vacation and then also happen to knock over the flight stuff. I suppose in that instance it would be legal under the VWP.

selfin
19th Mar 2019, 12:17
havick, see the supplemental guidance in the memo. Neither statute nor regulations apply a meaning to the term so interpretation must come from standard canons of construction. A once-off training flight in a seaplane is unlikely to be taken as meaning a course of study. The DOJ position will clearly treat an initial type rating training programme as a course of study.

Not all alien applicants, for whom TSA security threat assessments and background checks are required, need to complete courses of study. Such applicants are consequently not required to seek admission under a vocational or academic study visa.

You may wish to read the transcript of a house hearing before the subcommittee on transportation security "A decade after 9/11 could American flight schools still unknowingly be training terrorists?" done 18 Jul 2012 (serial no 112-106). See transcript on GPO website here: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-112hhrg79848/html/CHRG-112hhrg79848.htm

havick
19th Mar 2019, 13:57
Begs the question how do the large sim companies get away with training probably half their clients on the VWP?

josephfeatherweight
24th Mar 2019, 14:47
I’ve done a Type Rating in the US and entered the country on a B1/B2 visa, as have a number of my colleagues. I guess the question, as asked by others above is - “Is a type rating a “Course of Study”?”

B2N2
24th Mar 2019, 20:34
There’s a 14 page sticky on this subject

https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/418519-m1-visa-no-visa-sevis-approved-schools-usa.html

Marekjefrajer
26th Mar 2019, 00:28
Thank you for a very good explanation! However, I do have a follow-up question:

A CFI could own their training aircraf or instruct in the student's aircraft. The normal situation is they work for a flight school either Part 61 or Part 141 and teach in the school's aircraft.

What do you mean by "they work for a flight school either Part 61 or Part 141"? As far as I am concerned, Part 61 and Part 141 are two means of obtaining flight instruction, either from "independent" flight instructor (CFI) or from an instructor under an approved flight school, respectively. In other words, there is nothing like a flight school under Part 61, am I correct?

Marek

MarcK
26th Mar 2019, 02:48
Part 141 is flight schools. Part 61 is independent instructors (whether or not they work for e.g. a flying club). I looked it up (so I can teach the correct answer) and found this:
Only FAA certificated Part 141 and/or 142 schools that are approved and participating in the Student and Exchange Visa Information Service (SEVIS) program are authorized to issue an I-20 form to a prospective student upon their enrollment into a course, which the prospective student needs to request the change of status and receive the subsequent student visa. and
Part 61 flight schools and independent flight instructors may train a foreign national if that alien is a legal permanent resident or in a work status (H-type visa) with extended stay privileges or a refugee in asylum status with appropriate DHS documentation. They also may train a foreign national on an F-1 (academic visa) provided that the student is still enrolled and attending the college or university as shown on the F-1 and the student has notified SEVIS of the additional training being received at a non-SEVIS approved school.

Marekjefrajer
26th Mar 2019, 13:41
Part 141 is flight schools. Part 61 is independent instructors (whether or not they work for e.g. a flying club).
Just to make it clear for me. Part 141 is a regulation for na "FAA approved flight school".

Part 61 is like me and my friend are both CFI, we don`t want to work for a local "FAA approved flight school", so we buy an aircraft, establish a company called for example "Pilot training LLC" and just like that we start providing flying lessons to whoever comes to us. We don`t need any syllabuses, there is no strict oversight from an FAA, only our students need to gain more flight hours before they are allowed to a check ride. Is that correct?

LTCTerry
26th Mar 2019, 18:14
Just to make it clear for me. Part 141 is a regulation for na "FAA approved flight school".

Part 61 is like me and my friend are both CFI... Is that correct?

No.

If you and your friend did this, it would be operating under Part 61.

The place where I fly has three 172s and an Arrow for rent. They offer private, instrument, and commercial training. They have been in business since the 1940s. They do charter in a King Air. It is an extremely professional business that conducts flight training under Part 61.

The most practical benefits I am aware of for going Part 141 are that you can borrow money for it or use Veterans Benefits. While the part 141 syllabus permits training in fewer hours, these hours are often much more costly, so if you don't complete in the minimum time(s) then you have spent a lot of extra money.

Propsforever
26th Mar 2019, 18:24
Marek,

you can even provide Training in your students Aircraft. This worked in some Countrys in Europe as well, before EASA/JAA...

If you have a EASA CPL/IR at least, you dont Need a Training course.

In 2010 it went like this:
You Need your EASA Licence "Authentificated".- Than you make a Date with your choosen Fisdo ( They check into your licence, if you have the Minimum hrs/Training required. The FAA recognizes all ICAO compiant Training) - After this you do your 80 Question ATP written Exam - Passing your Written, you look for an Examiner and take your Checkride.( and be Aware the ORAL Exam is the one to fear, be prepared)

As far as i know there has been a Change recently, so that Foreign Pilots transfering there Licence Need a 10hrs Course for test preparation, but i dont remember the exact wording.

ph-sbe
26th Mar 2019, 19:10
It’s USCIS that lets you in the country, and TSA that allows a foreign person to train. It’s really as simple as that.

USCIS does not let anyone in the country. USCIS approves or denies immigrant and non-immigrant petitions. USCIS can also change your status once you are lawfully admitted to the U.S.

If you are abroad, the sequence of events for anything other than a tourist/business visa, usually involves the following process:

1. A petition is filed by either the beneficiary, a family member, prospect employer, or an approved educational institution provides a form I-20 with ink signature.
2. USCIS approves the petition (not needed when using a form I-20)
3. The beneficiary applies for a visa at a consulate
4. Assuming the visa is approved, the beneficiary travels to the U.S. and applies for admission in the class stated on the visa.
5. CBP admits the alien for the time documented on the for I-94.

If someone enters the country on a visitor visa (b1/b2) or on the visa waiver program (VWP), then an ordinary flight school that's not an approved educational institution will have no way to verify the legal status of a prospective student.

I have seen many cases where the TSA have approved foreigners on the visa waiver program to start training and I had to explain to flight school management that this was not legal.

While you are without a doubt correct, the average flight school does not have access to DHS records. The closest thing they could do is ask for I-9 documentation, but that could lead to false negatives (someone may be in the country legally, but not authorized to work, such as L2 status holders). In short, I don't think that a flight school will get in trouble once the TSA has approved someone. Worst case scenario, the student will be deported and barred from re-entering the country for violating their visa conditions.

B2N2
26th Mar 2019, 19:33
Marek, this is getting very convoluted and everybody tries to shout the loudest.
What are you trying to get done exactly?

And yes, many flight schools are Part 61.
See my earlier explanation.

MarcK
26th Mar 2019, 22:56
If you want to use your FAA CFI credentials to teach foreign students under Part 61 you must register with TSA as a Flight Training Provider and keep the appropriate records. Additionally, as a Part 61 provider, you are limited to students that have long term residence status (i.e. Green card, H-type visa, some F-1 visas),

Marekjefrajer
31st Mar 2019, 16:51
Marek, this is getting very convoluted and everybody tries to shout the loudest.
What are you trying to get done exactly?

And yes, many flight schools are Part 61.
See my earlier explanation.

Ok, your answer from 01:07 was useful, but still…
I do not plan obtaining FAA pilot license, I mentioned my job just to make it obvious that I have some level of knowledge of easa regulations. Apart from working I also study at a university and currently write a thesis concerning pilot training under easa and whether it is possible to obtain/provide flight training lessons outside of either an approved training organisation (ATO) or a declared training organisation (DTO), or not. It was told to me that under FAA it might be possible to get flight training "on someones garden", no training organisation, no flight school, with or without training manuals and syllabus previously approved by FAA, while this training can be credited in full to minimum flight requirements for obtaining a pilot license. In other words, to work as a flight instructor under easa, in 99 % of cases you have to work for some training organisation, you cannot provide the training on your own, for example as Mr. Marekjefrajer; Mr. Marekjefrajer has to be employed by some training organisation and provide flight training to students/clients of this organisation. Let’s say that you can be the owner / the only employee of a DTO, but you would still have to have established this training organisation before (establishing of any organisation / school / club is what I am trying to avoid). – as far as I am concerned now, training outside of any school / organisation / flying club etc. (just under a tree, on your own) may be done under Part 61 regulation, is that correct?

Question number two: What is the difference between authorized instructor and certificated flight instructor from the legislative point of view and is there any difference between their rights? LTCTerry answered me this question in the first comment to this topic. However, training for Private pilot (airplane) underpart 61 talks about 20 hours with authorized instructor, the same pilot license under part 141 talks about 20 hours of flight training from a certificated flight instructor... so apparently there must be a difference, otherwise why would FAA have both, if they were the same? And if I become a flight instructor according to training under Part 61 rules, am I an authorized or certificated flight instructor?

I am sorry for being so slow in understanding the topic, firstly I am not so familiar with FAA regulations „logic“ and secondly as a foreign speaker I may understand the meaning of words in definitions, but not 100 % of the message of the definition/regulation... hence I might be asking something that is obvious for you as english speakers.

MarkerInbound
31st Mar 2019, 23:28
Authorized instructor is defined in part 61.1.

Authorized instructor means—

(i) A person who holds a ground instructor certificate issued under part 61 of this chapter and is in compliance with §61.217, when conducting ground training in accordance with the privileges and limitations of his or her ground instructor certificate;

(ii) A person who holds a flight instructor certificate issued under part 61 of this chapter and is in compliance with §61.197, when conducting ground training or flight training in accordance with the privileges and limitations of his or her flight instructor certificate; or

(iii) A person authorized by the Administrator to provide ground training or flight training under part 61, 121, 135, or 142 of this chapter when conducting ground training or flight training in accordance with that authority.

In the airline world, many times the "instructor" does not hold a CFI certificate. But the airline authorizes them to instruct their pilots. In your example, the "authorized instructor" for part 61 is a CFI.

As to your first question, I hold a FAA CFI with SE, ME and instrument airplane ratings and a glider rating. My first aviation job was with a fixed base operator (FBO). It was a company that operated an airport for the city. They sold fuel, rented hangars, did airplane maintenance and provided instruction under part 61. People could call and say they wanted to learn to fly and the FBO would rent them an airplane and schedule an instructor for them. The person would pay the FBO and I would be paid by the FBO. But the FBO did not have an official syllabus approved by the FAA. We only had to make sure all the requirements listed in part 61 were met. Currently I spend some time at a glider club. There are several members who hold glider instructor certificates. The club has a syllabus of what items should to be covered in each lesson. But it is the club's own idea of how a glider pilot should be taught. There is no FAA approval. Again, instruction under Part 61.

If you have your own airplane or glider, I could provide instruction independently from the glider club or any airport flight school. As you said, conducting the ground school and briefings "under a tree."