Avalon Report

[Sunfish]

I went today. Superb organisation and management. Superb volunteers. The aircraft? As far as I can tell, the usual like the last one. Flying display? Well, it’s a trade day, but to my mind, and I could be wrong, the F35 didn’t seem as agile as an F18, but I stand to be corrected.

The pavilions? Full of stuff foreigners want to sell the ADF, mostly for killing more brown people. I noted what I think was the first “suicide drone” (Polish manufacture I think) that was on display. The people were mostly RAAF glad to get a day off who were happily busy talking to their ex RAAF mates who were now salesmen. Friendliest stand as usual was the Bureau of Meteorology.

Virtually SFA for GA apart from Cirrus, Diamond and business jets and high end helicopters. RAA and SAAA in attendance but not much going on. The same homebuilts and shiny LSAs as 2017. Perhaps it was the heat. There was a Rotax 915 on display at the Sling stand.

I was not disappointed that the ridiculous historic military re-enactment types still appear to be in attendance.

As for the heat, with cold bottled water at $4.00 each and no obvious free hydration stations that I could see, the ambulance service is going to have its hands full this weekend with heatstroke cases. The Kransky and sauerkraut ($10.00) was good.

As previously stated, I care not for the spotterish subtleties of C130 H vs. C17 tyre caps or whatever so having experienced the aviation equivalent of the groundhog day movie yet again I left after two hours - $67 +$4 +$10 poorer.

The general public will no doubt be thrilled on the weekend.

[Gnadenburg]

Hahahaha

The military-industrial complex. And Lockheed Martin? My my ! They have a history as far back as the F104 bribery scandals putting that totally unsuitable aircraft into the air forces of NATO. I imagine they a good employer of ex-service folks.

[cattletruck]

I also went today and guess who bumped into me? Wasn't sure at first but yes it was Dick Smith himself. Wasn't expecting that.

Agree, the volunteers were just awesome and the Bureau of Meteorology stand was the friendliest.

Really enjoyed the engagement this year by the people of the Australian forces, however I didn't get a chance to do my favourite chats with the yanks who just love coming down here. Unfortunately after doing a helicopter virtual reality sim I came out of it with severe motion sickness and the heat wasn't helping. I had to pull the plug and leave early.

[machtuk]

Why did you waste yr time Sunny? You ought to know better!

[thunderbird five]

I filled my water bottle yesterday from three different water trailers which had about 8 nozzles each.

[Dick Smith]

Cattle. It was great to meet you.

Yep. I was there and agree it was well run. Lots of hard work by those involved.

But it it was hot! Maybe this global warming is happening!

[Squawk7700]

I was going to go on Thursday but decided to go on Wednesday to avoid having a similar experience to Sunfish as he always tends to choose the wrong day.

I thought it was great. A relaxed feel with less people there. I spent around 3 hours in the pavilions conducting business with many other well dressed business-minded persons, from Defence and other aviation organisations. There are a lot of innovative and new products that I haven't seen before and many advances in the ATC and ATIS areas, along with higher end Defence products that were drawing crowds of high-ranking officers. I'm guessing that it is difficult for many of them to get out of Australia to trade shows due to the restrictions on using government money for travel, so Avalon is a good chance to see what's out there. Apparently much business takes place there.

I saw many "brown people" there in military uniform, including most of the security guards and gate personnel, but I didn't see any military hardware that seemed to be aimed towards any brown people.... most was designed with no discrimination in mind.

I then headed out to the military displays which were great and there were no lines to browse through the extra large cargo holds of our biggest aircraft.

I chatted with one of the largest aircraft importers in Australia, Foxbat, who had several aircraft there, including the new Alto. There were other LSA aircraft there too, including a new "Evolution" aircraft that boasted a 165 knot VNE, a 165 knot TAS at 75% power on a 115 Rotax 914 engine. I'm not too confident on those numbers! I've heard that 145 is more in-order, but a bit of poetic licence in advertising is the Australian way. There was also a newly arrived Chinese amphibious aircraft (complete with Chinese employees direct from China) that appeared to be modeled similarly to the Icon A4, but I did hear a figure in excess of $300k for that one. I believe it was assembled and test flown out of Tyabb during the last week.

I also saw the Cirrus aircraft including the Vision Jet, new Vulcanair Single, twin and also numerous new impressive helicopters from Bell and the Guimbal Cabri helicopter.

There was building representation as private GA aircraft were arriving for the GA areas including owner associations, SAAA and also the RA-Aus, however admittedly it was a little early for some of them, although the RA-Aus and SAAA were full steam ahead.

All in all a good day out with plenty of places to drink free water from filtered water fountain trailers.

[Squawk7700]

Cattle. It was great to meet you.

Yep. I was there and agree it was well run. Lots of hard work by those involved.

But it it was hot! Maybe this global warming is happening!

You Sydney-siders can't handle the heat Dick. Just another day in Victorian paradise :-)

[CBR205]

I was not disappointed that the ridiculous historic military re-enactment types still appear to be in attendance.


Whilst not my cup of tea I have no idea why you feel the need to belittle people with a hobby you're not fond of. Do they hurt anyone? No. Do they entertain or educate? Possibly.

You went to something with such a closed mind that your self fulfilling prophecy came true. Congrats! You likely managed to be the least happy person at something many enjoy attending.

[Sunfish]

CBR, Iwas trying to learn something, not watch a * & ing fashion parade.

[tio540]

Cattle. It was great to meet you.

Yep. I was there and agree it was well run. Lots of hard work by those involved.

But it it was hot! Maybe this global warming is happening!



Unless it was 48 degrees it is not global warming, just summer. FFS.

[junior.VH-LFA]

Gee I wonder why young people aren’t interested in aviation anymore?

[Fris B. Fairing]

I was not disappointed that the ridiculous historic military re-enactment types still appear to be in attendance.


You were not disappointed that they were there?

[Capn Bloggs]

Cattle. It was great to meet you.
So, was it...
"Gday, you must be Dick Smith! I'm Cattletruck, from Prune, but I'm not going to tell you my real name!". :)

[tio540]

Avalon gets hot, often.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/775x450/victoria_climate_extremes_d038f4fc5ac8e5144ec1ddce6e12efa62e 3f7402.jpg

February, 2019 BOM link.


Daily Maximum Temperature - 087113 - Bureau of Meteorology (http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weatherData/av?p_nccObsCode=122&p_display_type=dailyDataFile&p_startYear=&p_c=&p_stn_num=087113)

[barleyhi]

​​​​​Much modern technology but on the military stands my highlight was the KC135 Stratotanker. One of the crew, James and another young female USAF pilot kindly showed us through the magnificent machine built in 1957 (three years before the neighbouring B52!) Controls are all cables and pulleys except for rudder boost. No cockpit aircon but just a cockpit temperature gauge which peaks at 40degs C, after which they use a portable oven thermometer! Power from the CFM56 engines to spare with all take off calculations based on three engines only. They came from California with the Raptors with a diversion around a cyclone (Oma?) to Japan. Loved the passion, enthusiasm and knowledge of these two young ambassadors of the USAF.

[Dangly Bits]

Anyone get a good ramp checking from CASA?

[triton140]

Pretty brief - introduced themselves, asked for my ARN so they could check licence/medical - and that was it.

All that wasted time making sure I had a fuel log, proper (manual) W&B, marked up flight plan - even a signed MR!

Even had up-to date charts as a backup to my backup iPad running AvPlan - might have needed them as with the heat yesterday my main iPad shut down as we were passing YMPC on the way back - and the backup failed similarly a few minutes later. Not a problem, can see home from there - but a reminder about technology.

[cattletruck]

I would like to reiterate that the volunteers did an absolutely fantastic job considering the heat stress they had to endure. I tip my hat to you all and your valuable efforts to make the day special which is recognised not just by myself but by many other people in the aviation community. Thank you.

Capn Bloggs
Children are not allowed on trade day :)

[PoppaJo]

Engineering are going to be busy. 2 B52’s gone tech, C17 ate a bird for lunch and grounded, aerobatic pyrotechnic aircraft set its own self on fire last night. Jetstar also had a bird strike in addition to the other 320 they have gone tech down there already! Oh and who took out some of the runway lights.

[machtuk]

:DEngineering are going to be busy. 2 B52’s gone tech, C17 ate a bird for lunch and grounded, aerobatic pyrotechnic aircraft set its own self on fire last night. Jetstar also had a bird strike in addition to the other 320 they have gone tech down there already! Oh and who took out some of the runway lights.



finally some excitement:}:)

[Squawk7700]

Back down to 20 degrees on Wednesday should be better for the yankee engineers.

I feel sorry for the US aircrews selling their merchandise in the opressive heat all day.

[Capt Fathom]

I feel sorry for the US aircrews selling their merchandise in the opressive heat all day.

Why? It gets hot in America too!

[Squawk7700]

Why? It gets hot in America too!

Not when you arrived here from the middle of winter !

[601]

But it it was hot! Maybe this global warming is happening!

Don't know about that.
Last time I went it was in the 40s in the morning, blew a gale from the SW and then we froze.

[Rotor Work]

I went on Friday / Saturday as planned
Somehow I survived the heat.
Once again the volunteers did a great job, also the city train service was smooth.
No HARS aircraft that I could see?
I missed Connie as she was a hilite for the night show in past years.
No new Bell 505 ?
Most Expo stands were un manned and empty on Saturday.
Regards R W

[Squawk7700]

No new Bell 505 ?


I'd be happy with the 429 :-)


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1334x750/11822516_c36b_43fb_8e4a_8c731f70b772_893e611c37cbe9ca8e79b81 8a074632e227650a9.png

[Training Guy]

So is there a site that's showing Avalon live, without having to put in your credit card details to an overseas site.

[Squawk7700]

Not likely. There’s quite a few videos getting traction on YouTube which makes me think those that stayed home due to the weather have been watching them online instead.

Stefan Drury has put up some good ones all week.

[LeadSled]

Don't know about that.
Last time I went it was in the 40s in the morning, blew a gale from the SW and then we froze.

601,
Was that the year the "cool change" was preceded by a dust storm ---- then just enough rain to turn the dust on the aeroplanes to mud.
I had to find few storms with rain, on the way home, to get most of it off.
And, of course, the famous Avalon crosswinds.
Tootle pip!!

[Dora-9]

Stefan Drury has put up some good ones all week.


Yes he has, but could someone please dissuade him from flying Air Asia (which he hinted at in one of his videos).

[junior.VH-LFA]

Off topic but for any ex ADF guys, today was the last PC-9 Roulette demo before the change over to the 21.

Bankstown in 2000 watching the Roulettes is why I joined. Holding a category on it was something else again. I can't be alone in feeling a bit nostalgic at that.

[Squawk7700]

If you’re that attached to the PC9 they are running at between $66k-$90k on Grays online :-)

https://www.graysonline.com/sale/5036639/transport-trucks-and-trailers/unreserved-ex-military-pilatus-pc-9-a-aircraft-bell-kiowa-westland-scout-helicopters?spr=true

[junior.VH-LFA]

If you’re that attached to the PC9 they are running at between $66k-$90k on Grays online :-)

https://www.graysonline.com/sale/5036639/transport-trucks-and-trailers/unreserved-ex-military-pilatus-pc-9-a-aircraft-bell-kiowa-westland-scout-helicopters?spr=true



Only a fool would pay that much for those. I wonder if the buyers have done any actual research. Regardless, fond memories.

[Squawk7700]

Only a fool would pay that much for those. I wonder if the buyers have done any actual research. Regardless, fond memories.

Those engines have got to be worth a fair bit though surely? Even if not for aviation purposes.

Did people say that about the Mustangs and Spitfires all those years ago???

[junior.VH-LFA]

Those engines have got to be worth a fair bit though surely? Even if not for aviation purposes.

Did people say that about the Mustangs and Spitfires all those years ago???

They don't come with any logbooks, so I doubt it. I'm not an engineer though so I won't pretend to know if you can use one in an airworthy sense without it. They also don't come with any seats or avionics. The looms are there though, so I suppose that's a start, right?

[Sunfish]

No log books and not necessarily a known system of maintenance means gate guardian. From memory there was not much corrosion protection added in the wing manufacturing (at least by Boeing standard) at the ‘bend. So it’s anyone’s guess what the shiny paint hides.

[machtuk]

Are these 9's ending there flying career at the end of Avalon?
if so I guess the drivers go home on a bus:)

[Squawk7700]

This is the first batch to go under the hammer. Feels like a bit of a publicity stunt having the auction end after Avalon, also considering that Grays had a stand there.

The Grays guy mentioned to me that the Kiowa’s were flown in but the Pc9’s weren’t. I can only assume that is correct. You’d have to assume that the Pc9’s aren’t end of life unless they have already had some sitting around for a while that are somehow out of hours. The fact that a few of them are sitting on the same figure suggests that someone out there bidding knows their true worth.

[Sunfish]

Unless you have the maintenance records (the books) you have no idea of the time/cycle/stress history of the major components of the aircraft that includes most of the engine e.g turbine disks, spars, landing gear etc. That in my experience means they are scrap metal. I know of no loophole that gets you out of that situation...... and i’m not blaming CASA either.

You would need to have a whole container load of brand new spares complete with release notes and the current maintenance manuals to maybe make it possible to legally get one into flying condition, but maybe that is the plan.

[barleyhi]

https://www.simacademy.events/pc-7/

here’s an idea!

[IFEZ]

Went yesterday. Flight into YAVE was straightforward. Seemed as though not many took the opportunity to fly in though. Not sure if it was the hot weather, threat of ramp checks or the appalling condition of YAVE surface that kept people away! The commercial guys seemed pretty busy flying people in and out. Crowd was huge as usual despite the heat. Very glad to be flying out at the end of the day looking at the massive queue of cars trying to get out of the place. There would have been people still barely out of the car park by the time we were back home washing the dust down with a cold one.

As others have said, volunteers did a fantastic job in pretty trying conditions over the public days. Airshow itself was ok. There were a few flat spots where not much was happening, and there wasn't much I hadn't seen before but all in all it was worth going. I put Sunfish's concerns behind me and soaked up the raw power and aerodynamic capability of the military jets. Never gets old for me. I must admit I actually missed the completely over the top American commentary you normally get on the F22 display (had an aussie substitute).

Just back on YAVE - any danger someone could run a grader over the surface at some stage prior to the next one..?? Thought the undercarriage was going to give way taking off out of the place..! No sign of any ramp checks yesterday. Maybe the lack of numbers made it not worth turning up.

[gassed budgie]

Just back on YAVE - any danger someone could run a grader over the surface at some stage prior to the next one..?? Thought the undercarriage was going to give way taking off out of the place..! No sign of any ramp checks yesterday. Maybe the lack of numbers made it not worth turning up.

Much preferred the airshows of past where you could land on Avalon main and taxi to a designated GA parking area off to the side of the runway. Much more civilised than lobbing into some clapped out piece of Buffalo country full of rabbit holes, massive divets and various bits of Jabiru scattered hither and to across the field.

Anyway, decided not to go this time. Looked at the forecast and figured I was definitely over the summer temps. Was in Melbs, but took a left turn at the appropriate spot, hopped on the boat and went to Tassie. Standing on Blanche beach just out of St.Helens late last week it was 18°C, the cloud was scudding past at 500'AGL and there was a stiff 15/20 kts blowing out of the east. Beautiful!

[Buster Hyman]

Off topic but for any ex ADF guys, today was the last PC-9 Roulette demo before the change over to the 21.

Bankstown in 2000 watching the Roulettes is why I joined. Holding a category on it was something else again. I can't be alone in feeling a bit nostalgic at that.

It was utter chaos up there!!!!!

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1124/jcc_0124_2__76479e49808f7caad46b5af68b724ce25142123e.jpg

I kid, I kid! I thought the Roulettes did their usual best yesterday. Took far to many photos of them but it was nice that the PC21's held off initially so the 9's could have a good send off! Well done Roulettes! :ok:

[Kulwin Park]

Anyone get a good ramp checking from CASA?

The helicopters landing at the scenic ride display down the southern end got a few ramp checks and MR's pinged

[Pearly White]

Unless you have the maintenance records (the books) you have no idea of the time/cycle/stress history of the major components of the aircraft that includes most of the engine e.g turbine disks, spars, landing gear etc. That in my experience means they are scrap metal. I know of no loophole that gets you out of that situation...... and i’m not blaming CASA either.

You would need to have a whole container load of brand new spares complete with release notes and the current maintenance manuals to maybe make it possible to legally get one into flying condition, but maybe that is the plan.
Also no registration nor CofA - could be a terribly expensive process to get these airframes flyable.

[parabellum]

I know of no loophole that gets you out of that situation......

Would a D Check, or a Check 4 be enough to get them airworthy and a C of A?

[Squawk7700]

Did anyone see how much they went for ?

[junior.VH-LFA]

$110k eachish, all going to South Africa.

[AbsoluteFokker]

Sunfish,

I know a 4 seater aircraft that had a wing replacement (with a second-hand wing) that wasn't properly documented and was only found out after the previous 9 or 10 maintenance organisations plus with a paid independent pre-purchase inspection had missed the omission entirely.

The only supplier of such wings made a declaration that they had never shipped out any spare second hand wings with more than 3500 hours on them, so that was taken as the base value at wing replacement and carried forward.

I think this took quite a few months of negotiation with CASA but at least had a happy ending. But it was only one component.

[LeadSled]

No log books and not necessarily a known system of maintenance means gate guardian. From memory there was not much corrosion protection added in the wing manufacturing (at least by Boeing standard) at the ‘bend. So it’s anyone’s guess what the shiny paint hides.

Sunfish,
You would, perhaps, be surprised what you can do under Experimental and Limited Categories of CASR Part 21.
Tootle pip!!

[gerry111]

$110k eachish, all going to South Africa.

$735,745 total for all five aircraft. Plus 9% Buyers Premium. Plus GST, if applicable.

[mattycoze]

I didn't get to go, but from the sidelines I note that the GFA member forums have been running pretty hot about not fronting up and having a stall at Avalon... Moderate discord on failing to attract new members and interest to the sport ensues.

[gav_20022002]

Poppa, the first 52 took out 6 lights on landing, the flypast one that returned took out another 4 and then the original one took another 1 when it finally departed. all in all not a bad effort haha

[Okihara]

This was my first Avalon airshow but the overwhelming ADF presence didn't go unnoticed. I was all in for GA/civilian things and while I expected some military equipment, I was surprised to see such a strong detachment. Most visitors seemed to enjoy that thoroughly though so I suppose that's what they were primarily after.

Has Avalon traditionally always been an airshow with a strong military/defence component? Is Avalon some kind of showcase for the Australian taxpayer?

[junior.VH-LFA]

Yawn.

You all sook about ticket prices now. Imagine how much the show would cost if you had to fill all the ramp space and flying schedule slots provided by the ADF.

More likely the show just wouldn’t happen.

Sunfish, you can criticise foreign policy if you’d like, you’re more than entitled to do that, but your misguided rants about the evil ADF are growing extremely tiresome, given that they have no basis in fact. Frankly given your apparent previous service I’d expect better. You should know the the members are the military itself do not chose what operations or tasks they find themselves involved in.

Almost all of the crews involved with Avalon (fast jet aside, obviously) have been heavily involved with disaster relief and assistance to the civilian community. I know I have been.

[Squawk7700]

Avalon Airshow is the biggest recruiting drive for the military for the year (or at least every second year). It is also the biggest defence showcase in the Southern Hemisphere for military spenders.

[Pilotette]

Much preferred the airshows of past where you could land on Avalon main and taxi to a designated GA parking area off to the side of the runway. Much more civilised than lobbing into some clapped out piece of Buffalo country full of rabbit holes, massive divets and various bits of Jabiru scattered hither and to across the field.!

Agreed. I’m not sure I would have chosen to subject the poor C210s undercart to YAVE if I had of known how ****e the surface was. Although, once I dragged her off I was quickly content in my decision to not have driven...the backed up lines of cars trying to leave was brutal!

[Checklist Charlie]

He was probably a chocco.
I hope that wasn't meant to be an insult, if so, it destroys any credibility you may have had.

CC

[Buster Hyman]

I don't understand how people can drag themselves out of bed in the morning with all that angst ridden guilt they carry. Must be tiresome...it certainly sounds like it.

I'm more than happy to get up close & personal with the people & equipment that work towards our Defence.

[junior.VH-LFA]

I hope that wasn't meant to be an insult, if so, it destroys any credibility you may have had.

CC

C’mon now, everyone knows there’s a super heavy level of banter between full timers and the holiday crew.

[dr dre]

The question remains however, is the Avalon Airshow considered a show for all forms of aviation or now overwhelmingly a military aviation focused show with a small civilian side presence?

A perusal of the display list shows military aircraft are in the majority, with a large chunk of the “civil” aircraft being older ex-military aircraft.

Was Avalon previously (or should it be in the future) geared to have more civilian airline presence (like the Paris or Dubai Airshows) or more of a GA presence like Oshkosh?

[Vag277]

dr dre
There is no similarity between Avalon & Oshkosh. Oshkosh is run by the Exoerimental Aircraft Association, primarily for homebuilts & classic aeroplanes. Commercial GA is not a primary target and the military presence is an entertainment and patriotic appearance. Avalon is a "big end of town" event with the military hardware the big kid on the block. I don't thinka GA oriented show would attract the public and corporate spend that justifies State Government support.

[junior.VH-LFA]

Take out the military and government trade aspects and Avalon wouldn't exist. It just wouldn't. Families aren't lining up to see the latest most Foxbat or Jabiru.

Good luck getting the the numbers that go to Avalon anywhere else. Temora are the only mob that come close, and they deliver a quality show. Coincidentally, not a lot of GA stuff there either.

[Okihara]

Avalon Airshow is the biggest recruiting drive for the military for the year (or at least every second year). It is also the biggest defence showcase in the Southern Hemisphere for military spenders.
It's interesting to see such a strong popular support for defence toys. I was happy GA could fill in the gaps!