saluting a Prime Minister

[staircase]

A real genuine question, and no politics please, but constitutional answers only.

Watching our Prime Minister on the television, each time she passes a serviceman she gets a salute.

Since the Queen is both Head of State, and Head of the Armed Forces, and since in theory (obviously not in practice) in our (unwritten) Constitution the politicians and the Armed Forces are very separate, should a Prime Minister be saluted?

[JagRigger]

I'll refer to AP818 the Drill Manual. Section 2 Part 1 - 'Because of their link with the Sovereign, the following are to be paid some form of compliment: b. Governors and Ministers to whom the Sovereign delegates authority'

[staircase]

Well i guess that answers my question, thanks for the prompt reply.

[MOSTAFA]

I would have no difficulty giving any MP a salute right now - the two-fingered:p type.

[Training Risky]

Watching our Prime Minister on the television, each time she passes a serviceman she gets a salute.

How many fingers...?!

[Tankertrashnav]

I'll never forget my first salute. A newly commissioned APO, I was still 2 days short of my 18th birthday and I was walking down to the squadron on my first morning. I was saluted by a crusty old Regiment sergeant who was more than twice my age, and I very proudly returned the salute. When I got down to the squadron I told our 2 i/c that I had just had my first salute. He reminded me that when we salute we are saluting the appointment (and indirectly the monarch), not the individual. So I would have no difficulty in saluting a PM or minister of whatever political stripe - it would not imply any approval, or otherwise, of their policies.

[charliegolf]

So I would have no difficulty in saluting a PM or minister of whatever political stripe - it would not imply any approval, or otherwise, of their policies.

Spot on TTN! Had I only saluted officers I'd approved of, I'd have been in perpetual poo!:ok:

CG

[Just This Once...]

When HM Forces salute the respect and courtesy is ultimately being shown to or for HM The Queen. Her Majesty confers and delegates this honour on named individuals through commissioning scrolls, governorships, Secretaries of State, some Lords & Members of Parliament and even a few bishops if they have been appointed to the Privy Council.

Incidentally, Diane Abbott was appointed to the Privy Council in Feb 2017, so quite a high bar.

[alwayslookingup]

I'll refer to AP818 the Drill Manual. Section 2 Part 1 - 'Because of their link with the Sovereign, the following are to be paid some form of compliment: b. Governors and Ministers to whom the Sovereign delegates authority'

Until I read this I was always of the impression one saluted only holders of the Queen's/King's Commission. My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.

[GANNET FAN]

In Gib many years ago, when the destroyer pens were still in use, I bumped into an old school friend who was on board one of HM ships and invited for drinks in the wardroom. On leaving and at the foot of the gangway, I received a very smart salute from himself and the OOW..
On other occasions and elsewhere on other ships I have seen guests receiving the same courtesy on leaving.

[meleagertoo]

[QUOTE=alwayslookingup;10400900 My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.[/QUOTE]
Nor wearing a hat!

[meleagertoo]

My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.
Nor is he wearing any form of headgear - or isn't that a requirement in the US?

[VictorSR]

But surely he is ?

[Roadster280]

Until I read this I was always of the impression one saluted only holders of the Queen's/King's Commission. My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.

I don't believe the President is required to return salutes (which are required by regulation), even though he is the Commander in Chief. However, Ronnie, having been a junior officer in the US Army during WW2, thought it embarrassing not to return the salute. He therefore instituted the practice (note practice or custom, rather than regulation). Since then, it's been a faux pas not to return salutes. Here is Mr Obama in that scenario:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np7lObaDiBk

[MPN11]

I always understood that,in the US, the junior remained at the Salute untilit was acknowledged by the superior. Thus, hat or no hat, the superior released the junior from the salute posture.

Possibly I’m wrong, of course!

[Old-Duffer]

Just be guided by when a gentleman would raise his hat (if such was still the fashion).

For those not strictly eligible to receive a salute, to do so is a matter of common courtesy.

.......... and don't forget, even a Field Marshal salutes a VC or GC winner!

Old Duffer

[air pig]

I don't believe the President is required to return salutes (which are required by regulation), even though he is the Commander in Chief. However, Ronnie, having been a junior officer in the US Army during WW2, thought it embarrassing not to return the salute. He therefore instituted the practice (note practice or custom, rather than regulation). Since then, it's been a faux pas not to return salutes. Here is Mr Obama in that scenario:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np7lObaDiBk

As was the late George H Bush, a junior officer in the USN during WW2 who followed Ronald Reagan as President.

[Union Jack]

In Gib many years ago, when the destroyer pens were still in use, I bumped into an old school friend who was on board one of HM ships and invited for drinks in the wardroom. On leaving and at the foot of the gangway, I received a very smart salute from himself and the OOW..
On other occasions and elsewhere on other ships I have seen guests receiving the same courtesy on leaving.
I would expect nothing less, on arrival and departure.

Nor is he wearing any form of headgear - or isn't that a requirement in the US?

But surely he is ?

I see what you did there....

Jack

[Pontius Navigator]

We were taught to salute the wife of a senior officer when calling as an acknowledgement of her husband's commission and by extension as stated above.

[teeteringhead]

O-D

.......... and don't forget, even a Field Marshal salutes a VC or GC winner!

I hate to draws swords with you, but is that not a fairly recent thing, emulating the cousins who always salute a MoH.

Don't recall it from my training - but I was only gutter entry after all (or maybe asleep in that lecture). TTN will know I'm sure.....

Pontius

We were taught to salute the wife of a senior officer when calling as an acknowledgement of her husband's commission Likewise I beg to differ. We were taught (even gutter entry!) that saluting was the equivalent of raising ones hat, on greeting ANY lady.

In my bachelor junior officer youth, my salute impressed a number of young ladies...........:E

(of course, what constitutes a lady is also up for discussion)

[Fortissimo]

And what constitutes a salute, too! 😉

[Pontius Navigator]

TTH, one was embarrassing the other could be pretending to be dashing hero.

[NutLoose]

My pet hate is when Trump "salutes" the military, him being neither in the Services nor in uniform.

Nor is he wearing any form of headgear - or isn't that a requirement in the US?

Does a wig come massive comb over count? ;)

[Easy Street]

Well, it is Her Majesty’s Government, so ministers represent the Sovereign just as commissioned officers do. And rather higher up the food chain than most of us!

[tartare]

Is one correct in observing a degree of casualness in the salute returned by some very senior officers?
More of a 3/4 wave of acknowledgment. rather than the hand snapped right up...?

[MOSTAFA]

We were taught to salute the wife of a senior officer when calling as an acknowledgement of her husband's commission and by extension as stated above.


On commissioning I am convinced I was taught to salute (in uniform) or remove my hat (if worn in civilian clothes) when introduced to a lady irrespective of the ladies husbands rank.

[Mogwi]

I seem to remember that in the RN, one salutes when in uniform, raises one's headdress when in civilian clothes but salutes when in mufti but not wearing a titfer. Also works when boarding or leaving HM Ships as you are saluting the Quarterdeck where the effigy of the Virgin used to be displayed (pre reformation obviously!).

Mog

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Here is Mr Obama in that scenario:
At least he had the good grace to personally make amends, something that probably meant far more to the young marine.

[tartare]

At least he had the good grace to personally make amends, something that probably meant far more to the young marine.

Yes - I thought that was very gracious - that young man will remember it for the rest of his life.
I wonder if the pilots quietly reminded POTUS.

[Tankertrashnav]

and don't forget, even a Field Marshal salutes a VC or GC winner!I hate to draws swords with you, but is that not a fairly recent thing, emulating the cousins who always salute a MoH.

Don't recall it from my training - but I was only gutter entry after all (or maybe asleep in that lecture). TTN will know I'm sure..... Sorry to disappoint TTH, but I am not really sure how far back that tradition goes. What I do know for certain is that it is not a requirement but just a custom. One thing I did discover when doing a bit of background reading is that the Australians actually have a regulation which states that holders of the Victoria Cross are NOT to be saluted unless they are serving commissioned officers. That did surprise me, I must admit

[Old-Duffer]

TTN may recall at Kai Tak we had a real live VC winner in Rambahadur Limbu of 1/10th GR, when things hotted up in 1967/8 and we gave a home to one of the roulement battalions (frequently GR but once 2 Para).

Drifting the Thread (as one does) one young GR officer on his first deployment to the border received very painful shrapnel wounds to his nether regions, which meant he rarely sat down and slept on his stomach for some weeks afterwards. However, he did go on to make full Colonel. However, one of his mates did get VC (I think that's what they said) during his stay in the colony. I guess it was a top secret, undercover operation in a girlie bar in Wanchai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Old Duffer

[Arfur Dent]

I would NEVER salute Diane Abbott - whatever the penalty.
Also - many women "assume" their Husband's rank so I would never acknowledge them either…….

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Yes - I thought that was very gracious - that young man will remember it for the rest of his life.
I wonder if the pilots quietly reminded POTUS.
He gives a very belated truncated salute just as he enters the cabin. I guess he realized it was not really respectful and made amends. I don't think the pilots would have been able to see if he had returned the salute prior to boarding.

[teeteringhead]

Exactly so O-D. (Remind me when I see you to tell you the tale of a Sgt crewman and a QA Captain in Hong Kong ....... there are some similarities!)

More recently I remember the privilege of meeting Johnson Beharry at Alrewas - although both in uniform, we were hatless in a tent so the "saluting" question didn't arise.

The meeting was enlivened (sic) by the then PM - D Cameron - repeately referring to him as "Sgt Johnson". Best sack that adviser/speechwriter Dave.......

[Tankertrashnav]

I didn't know that Rambahadur Limbu VC had been at Kai Tak O-D. I do remember one Ghurka commissioned officer (as opposed to QGO) who lived in the mess for a while. He had an incredibly posh Sandhurst accent and must have thought we grammar school boys were terrible oiks!

I would NEVER salute Diane Abbott - whatever the penalty.

You've missed the point, Arfur. You're not saluting her, but her appointment, and by extension the monarch.

[Geordie_Expat]

Best I saw was early 70s in HQAFCENT. I was taking a German navy guy to do his arrival stuff and noticed him saluting often. I found out that at home they saluted everyone of a higher rank. As he was the equivalent of SAC (which I was), you can imagine where he came in the pecking order. There was an unwritten rule that you only saluted stars.

[Old-Duffer]

TTN,

Are you referring to Captain Maniprasad Rai by any chance? There was also Lt Gopal Bahadher Gurung and he and 'Mani' were Sandhurst trained. Mani's father had been the 'Gurkha Major' in the battalion sometime before.

O-D

[Tankertrashnav]

I see your amazing memory for names has not yet deserted you O-D! In my case I regret I don't remember the chap's name, but he was certainly a product of Sandhurst.

[Pontius Navigator]

You've missed the point, Arfur. You're not saluting her, but her appointment, and by extension the monarch.
I suspect he didn't as SHE might assume it was personal and not representational.

[Brian W May]

I would NEVER salute Diane Abbott - whatever the penalty.
Also - many women "assume" their Husband's rank so I would never acknowledge them either…….


I'm with you Arfur. I would ignore Diane Abbott, give two fingers to Theresa May and will never sing the National Anthem when Charlie and Chlamydia get their chance . . .

Never thought I would say that, but I find I'm surprised to realise I mean every word.

[langleybaston]

Exactly so O-D. (Remind me when I see you to tell you the tale of a Sgt crewman and a QA Captain in Hong Kong ....... there are some similarities!)

More recently I remember the privilege of meeting Johnson Beharry at Alrewas - although both in uniform, we were hatless in a tent so the "saluting" question didn't arise.

The meeting was enlivened (sic) by the then PM - D Cameron - repeately referring to him as "Sgt Johnson". Best sack that adviser/speechwriter Dave.......

I do believe, by virtue of his full corporal status and serving with the Household Division in London District, said soldier is/ was appointed a lance-sergeant and therefore to be addressed as sergeant. However, the surname confusion should have embarrassed Dave.

[jayteeto]

Diane Abbott

Never

Ever



Ever






Ever

[jayteeto]

Ever
Repeat repeat

[Old-Duffer]

Calm down Jayteeto - it's only an advert! (at the moment).

There is, of course, the 'reverse insult'. In this case somebody expecting a hard time gets given the sweetest of of 'rides' and every courtesy and that can really knock them back.

However, as I have often told younger members of the human race: courtesy costs nothing.

O-D

[Hydromet]

At OTU the Commandant had a habit of wandering through the lines after lectures, when we were sitting around outside our rooms polishing boots etc, usually wearing footy shorts, singlets and general muck order. Of course, as soon as he appeared we had to leap up and stand fast. On these expeditions, he was usually preceded by his pet labrador dog.
One afternoon the dog appeared at on end of the lines, so everyone stood fast. The Commandant appeared at the other end of the lines, to find a dozen occifer cadets paying compliments to his dog. "You, you, you...etc, take an extra."

[FantomZorbin]

Minor thread drift. When did the practice of 'thanking' people for a salute come into force? I was taught many, many years ago that it was not 'done,' a simple acknowledgement by way of 'good morning' or similar was all that was required coupled with the person's name if known.
'Thanking' was frowned on as was saying "Gawd bless 'er" at the end of the loyal toast.

Standing by for incoming!

[ExRAFRadar]

West Drayton for Trade Training, So many baby Officers moving around I found it more useful to just salute everyone and suffer the bollickings.

[It's Not Working]

Radar - Henlow was also a puzzle but in this instance they were cadets. Do I or don't I? It’s so long ago I can’t remember what I did or what I was meant to do.

[weemonkey]

When HM Forces salute the respect and courtesy is ultimately being shown to or for HM The Queen. Her Majesty confers and delegates this honour on named individuals through commissioning scrolls, governorships, Secretaries of State, some Lords & Members of Parliament and even a few bishops if they have been appointed to the Privy Council.

Incidentally, Diane Abbott was appointed to the Privy Council in Feb 2017, so quite a high bar.


Excellent :D :D

"Good Morning your m a j e s t y" at the same time lolol

Or isn't that sarcastic enough?

[Davidsa]

Advice given to National Servicemen apparently included:

- if you can't move it, paint it

- if you can move it, take it

- if it moves by itself, salute it

[Melchett01]

We were taught to salute the wife of a senior officer when calling as an acknowledgement of her husband's commission and by extension as stated above.

I’m sorry PN, whoever taught you that was an arse. And probably under the thumb at home from a dragon who wore her husband’s rank with more authority than he did.

Unless the wife falls into any of the categories already described, and ladies are an almost endangered species these days, I simply don’t see how she would warrant a salute. Wife isn’t an appointment and any authority at home stays there. Wives insisting on being saluted is up there with civil servant claiming to be ‘a wing commander equivalent’.

As for thanking someone after a salute, that too is a no-no given that the rank and what it represents is being saluted not the individual. To thank someone suggests otherwise, and a simply ‘good morning/afternoon/ hello mate’ is all that is required.

[Timelord]

I’m sure that at OCTU we were taught to salute on 4 occasions:

1. Any senior officer - which includes the other appointments under the Crown referred to above
2. The Cenotaph.
3. Last respects to the dead.
And
4. Greeting any lady. Witness a scene in “ In which we serve” when Noel Coward ( a Captain RN) greets the new wife of a very junior member of his ship’s company with a salute. And in those days films got that sort of thing right!

And no, never “Thank you”

[Pontius Navigator]

Melchett, no disrespect, when did you go through training? At my time it was when we delivered our calling cards.

As for Mrs Sqn Ldr, wife of a friend at Mess coffee morning went to join group of wives of similar age. She was directed to join the fg off/flt lt wives. Indeed much later Mrs PN was told not to join a group of 'execs' wives. Later, after Mrs Stn Cdr became Mrs ex-SC and took up a job shelf stacking in Budgens it was a pleasure stepping over her.

I think she did it deliberately as we knew who she was and how it would reflect on him. He still made 3*.

[langleybaston]

Melchett, your "................ Wives insisting on being saluted is up there with civil servant claiming to be ‘a wing commander equivalent’ " calls for a little amplification or clarification as seen from a civil servant's point of view.

My experience was narrow, being entirely scientific civil service, in Met Office MoD , usually serving on RAF stations or HQs. I never laid any such foolish claim, and neither did I hear any of my colleagues or staff being so silly. The idea of Equivalent Military Rank [EMR] seems to have been born of a need by the military [I suspect initailly the army] to place civilians in a hierarchy regarding civil/military relations.

An example. The newly appointed Director General of the Met Office announced his intention of visiting RAFG and BAOR Met Offices. Unprecedented to my certain knowledge. As C Met O I was cast in the unenviable role of gopher and bagman. I scuttled along to see my immediate RAF boss, SASO, with the dread news. He asked the obvious question, and the only answer that I could give was that the man was four grades senior to me at least. Thus a posh staff car, a service driver, the VIP suite in the mess, and a lot of tedious office visits for endless coffee and biscuits. At the time I was occupying a Gp Capts OMQ and paying Gp Capts Mess Subs and sitting above all the wing commanders at table. Apart from Mess staff, nobody ever called me sir, and I sirred all Air Commodores and above, of which there were a goodly number.

Far from Met staff getting silly ides, the EMR [or whatever euphemism was used] was necessary for the armed services to cope with these strange civvies. The civvies and their wives gave it not a thought apart from the grim struggle for a good Quarter, although in my previous three overseas tours we were told that if my wife took a job it had to be charitable rather than paid.

The subject of boasted equivalence is bound to annoy proper officers who have not only climbed the greasy pole but put their arses on the line: there can be no equivalence.

[Melchett01]

If I may respond to a couple of points in one post:

PN,
Concur, there is absolutely a difference in timeframes, although we were taught about calling cards in the late 90s when I went through and they featured in the by then dated training literature. But given that it was drummed into us that one salutes rank not the person, and I don’t think that has changed over time, there is simply no doubt in my mind that a wife doesn’t warrant a salute. Standing up for, as you should for any lady, opening doors, addressing appropriately until told to ‘please call me X’. But as commissions are not ‘family membership schemes’, even in the old days, I don’t see how a wife should be saluted.

Langley,
It is unfortunately a common phenomenon I encounter when working with MOD civilians. The worst culprits are often those who never made it past cpl, but have somehow found themselves at C1, and decide to take the ‘rank equivalent for messing purposes’ to an illogical conclusion. I wouldn’t mind, but many aren’t even close to performing to Sgt standard let alone commissioned standards. And I will admit it crinkles slightly, especially when they are also performing poorly. Most ‘professional’ in the sense of career CS only ever use a form of equivalence to work out what Mess they should be in, which I believe was the original intent.

[Pontius Navigator]

Melchett, thank you. I admit I said 'we were taught' not that that was the case when I finally retired a few years ago.

The other thing that lapsed was the formality of saluting on entering an office. Hats on was of course still the case even when I retired however for a routine visit almost everyone removes their cap on entering a building thus avoiding need to salute.

There was an OC Admin at Waddo who put out an order that people visiting SHQ were to wear headdress at all times. Well an order was an order.

Attending an Environmental meeting I sat there SD Hat on until OC SSS asked why. Take it off he said. The rule then died a death :)

Ad an aside, the cousins used to insist on uncovering on entering a building even to the extent of a soldier telling you to uncover.

[BEagle]

Hat on and salute when entering the room for morning Met Brief also seemed to have died out in latter years...

[staircase]

Me to Mrs. Staircase;

'Good God, my simple question has produced 3 web pages of answers'

Mrs. Staircase;

'What a sad bunch of old geezers 'ppruners' are, with nothing else to do but discuss that sort of trivia all day!!'

[FantomZorbin]

But I think that Mrs Staircase might agree that it keeps us out of the way/trouble!!

[Sandy Parts]

Mrs Staircase seems to have uncanny access to our profiles....I salute her :)

[Hydromet]

Timelord, re your #2: Not just a cenotaph, any military grave or cemetery, was as we were taught in the 1960s.

[teeteringhead]

Timelord, re your #2: Not just a cenotaph, any military grave or cemetery, was as we were taught in the 1960s. ... and any coffin at a funeral, and an uncased standard, and a Royal Artillery gun carriage (their equivalent of a standard apparently!)

Talk of the Privy Council reminds me of a good fit showing HM's sense of humour. At an early meeting (or possibly induction) of a number of Noo Labour Ministers, one of them - allegedly Clare Short - had a loud mobile 'phone go off in her handbag.

HM: "You'd better answer that Mrs Short - it might be someone important!"

[Pontius Navigator]

TTH, I was with my colonel when a funeral cortège passed.* He snapped to attention and threw a smart salute.* This was not any particular cortège.

[Wensleydale]

One wonders, in these days of political correctness, (and the absorption of the WRAF into the RAF) whether a junior officer also has to salute the husband of his senior officer, or indeed whether a female officer has to salute the wife of a fellow officer...... it all gets a bit complicated.

[Herod]

Not really complicated. You are saluting the Commission, not the individual. Saluting wives/husbands etc is a compliment, like raising one's hat, and is an optional act of courtesy

[Whenurhappy]

i was showing some Aussie relatives around Westminster Abbey this morning and we were treated to the sight of a guard of honour of cavalry troopers around the Grave of the Unknown Warrior and a ranks of three cavalry officers (by their uniforms) and a heavily-bemedalled Wing Commander. Then came in this short little chap with a stunning wife - it was HM King Abdullah and Queen Rania of Jordan. There was a brief service, with two senior Jordanian Air Force Officers carrying the wreath for HM the King.

There was lots of sword saluting from the troopers, but of course the officers were bare-headed in church. The Kling then went to Saint Georges Chapel for a meeting with the gaggle of officers and troopers, lots of vigourous handshaking and animated discussions. A bit of googling reveals he is the Colonel in Chief of the Light Dragoons, but does he have a particular affiliation with the RAF that would explain this rather elderly Wing Commander with a half brevet (presumably a Nav) chatting and smiling with the King?

[pr00ne]

Salute the cenotaph?

I use it as a convenient crossing point when dashing across Whitehall almost daily. Seeing as it is so close to Main Building a lot of military types do the same, both in and out of uniform. Never seen one salute it. Indeed that would look rather odd.

[Timelord]

Watch all the VIPs in uniform, including the Royal Family, arrive for the Remembrance Sunday event. They all salute the Cenotaph. And on the march past all the contingents give an eyes left. No doubt that is a bit inconvenient on an average Whitehall day, but I believe it is strictly correct.

[Old-Duffer]

The Wing Commander was a mate of his Dad's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pontius Navigator]

The same applies at all the war memorials on Remembrance parades and not just The Remembrance Day.

[Eric T Cartman]

US style :
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi2y7H_q-TgAhXOWhUIHYxkAesQwqsBMAB6BAgFEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMTRZRRlA4sw&usg=AOvVaw2J-d5N144OgeqMFix76TM9

[Pontius Navigator]

I always remember Cockshell Heroes, Trevor Howard on the beach turns away after talking with Victor Madern. Madern salutes the departing Captain who, sight unseen, returns the salute knowing that the Sgt would have saluted him. Pure theatre of course.

[Shack37]

I seem to remember Jack Hawkins in The Cruel Sea welcoming two new Sub Lts. On entering his office they both saluted and he said "Don´t salute me as I´m not wearing a hat and cannot return it.

BTW: As one who never made it past Junior Technician Melchetts comment re Cpls and Sgts went down really well.

[Melchett01]

I seem to remember Jack Hawkins in The Cruel Sea welcoming two new Sub Lts. On entering his office they both saluted and he said "Don´t salute me as I´m not wearing a hat and cannot return it.

BTW: As one who never made it past Junior Technician Melchetts comment re Cpls and Sgts went down really well.

Shack, unfortunately I can’t change reality and I spent a good proportion of a couple of tours clearing up after former cpls - Army and RAF - who had somehow made it to C1 in the civil service and failed to manage let alone lead their teams. Usually it revolved around not wanting / being able to write appraisals, other instances were along the lines of ‘your FS can’t talk to me like that I’m a Wing Commander equivalent and outrank him’. One individual was put on formal warning for repeated failure to perform. My J/SNCOs were, however, pretty damn good; the ones who left to join the CS were those who were 22 year cpls going nowhere fast and saw the CS as an easy option.

[MOSTAFA]

Salute the cenotaph?

I use it as a convenient crossing point when dashing across Whitehall almost daily. Seeing as it is so close to Main Building a lot of military types do the same, both in and out of uniform. Never seen one salute it. Indeed that would look rather odd.


I certainly would not expect any Whitehall warrior to salute the Cenotaph in civilian clothes but in uniform they certainly should - what Officer would walk past any Colour without saluting it. I personally have never walked passed our National Memorial without a thought or a bow of the head, if it isnt considered a Colour then it should be.

Sadly the old saying ”Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it”.

[Old-Duffer]

In 1965 I was walking along Whitehall in civvies (no hat). In front of me was a man with hat (on head). From a building emerged a Guards warrant officer in 'full fig' with pace stick who came between us. We three, in our little column were approaching the cenotaph, when I heard this bellow from ahead: "Your hat Sir". Said man in front quickly whipped off his hat and the Guards WO, threw up the most immaculate salute I had seen. We carried on before breaking off to our own business - never forgotten it though.

Old Duffer

[ShyTorque]

Spot on TTN! Had I only saluted officers I'd approved of, I'd have been in perpetual poo!:ok:

CG

I always had my suspicions about you, CG, based on the fact that you usually stuck your tongue out at me..... :p

[charliegolf]

I always had my suspicions about you, CG, based on the fact that you usually stuck your tongue out at me..... https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/tongue.gif

In truth, I was a good boy! More seriously, I took the oath and all that came with it (28 Aug 79, Cardiff); and don't feel released from it to this day. Back on task, I'm sure I saw a reg/rec in the drill bible (I was very bored) that anyone should salute on entering an office or workplace, even if senior to the occupants. A dream, perhaps?

CG

[Pontius Navigator]

Once, driving by Ulceby Cross we spotted a memorial in the corner of the field. I spotted my sqn crest on the plinth. We stopped to look and pay respects. As it happens the was another car also there. As we approached the memorial we realised the men in the party are using it as a urinal with their girlfriends in the field on the other side.

They were very embarrassed when Mrs & me pitched up.

[Shack37]

Originally posted by Melchett01
Shack, unfortunately I can’t change reality and I spent a good proportion of a couple of tours clearing up after former cpls - Army and RAF - who had somehow made it to C1 in the civil service and failed to manage let alone lead their teams. Usually it revolved around not wanting / being able to write appraisals, other instances were along the lines of ‘your FS can’t talk to me like that I’m a Wing Commander equivalent and outrank him’. One individual was put on formal warning for repeated failure to perform. My J/SNCOs were, however, pretty damn good; the ones who left to join the CS were those who were 22 year cpls going nowhere fast and saw the CS as an easy option.

My first posting after BEs was directly to a squadron. My tech boss, O/C E&I section had a "thing" about Boy Entrants, he thought it unfair they should be promoted to SAC automatically six months after graduating.
When I later applied for my J/T course he rejected it whilst authorising a Direct Entrant colleague quite recently arrived on the station. I eventually completed the course and returned with a credit pass. He called me to his office and congratulated me on "proving him wrong" which I thought quite good of him. My opinion of the man was lowered to previous levels when he later refused to let me take my CPL. Tech exam. Nearly made me as bitter as him.

End of moan, feeling much better.