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View Full Version : Qantas to get A321 NEO


Tony the Tiler
20th Feb 2019, 10:23
Qantas are rumoured to be on the verge of announcing plans to introduce A321NEOs to shorthaul operations utilising some of Bruce Buchannanís A320 bonanza buying spree options. Might even be as soon as the first half results.

Transition Layer
20th Feb 2019, 10:37
Flown by...?

Iíd also heard the short haul replacement type announcement was imminent. Tomorrow might be the day!

SOPS
20th Feb 2019, 12:05
They have to go somewhere!!!

blow.n.gasket
20th Feb 2019, 12:16
They have to go somewhere!!!

Do you mean somewhere that has a chance of making money ?

SMT Member
20th Feb 2019, 13:37
Flown by...?

(Lobs hand grenade)

Well, all the sulky Ozmates returning from Knoteetingham with fresh Airboos ratings, obvs!

(and runs)

knobbycobby
20th Feb 2019, 20:22
That would be awesome!
Fair Work would have everyone on the SH award.

SixDemonBag
20th Feb 2019, 20:38
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/489x253/ha_ha_gif_30914d2defdc3ba6dd6f0b6b0dbb6d0cfa9b56e5.gif

goodonyamate
20th Feb 2019, 21:08
No new aircraft
QF Domestic making record profits again, great news as there is no reason for the SH pilots to accept a sub standard deal
JQ Domestic also doing well
QF International profitable, hit by fuel costs but the increase in the first half will be fully recovered in the second half, so no reason to take flight plan fuel everywhere
smoke and haze around JQ international, nothing disclosed as usual, getting harder for them to deny that the 11 787ís that Qantas paid for wouldnít earn more money in Qantas colours......I canít understand how any business manager is dumb enough to leave such a valuable asset in a loss making entity. I suppose we all know what happens to a manager if they speak up.

Slezy9
20th Feb 2019, 21:28
Rumour is that theyíre also in talks with NZ to integrate their A321 flying also with the same group of pilots under the new QF/NZ joint venture.

Do you mean Jetstar NZ or Air NZ?

Flava Saver
20th Feb 2019, 21:44
$2 Billion on fuel. (Up 27%).

I wonder if they had of just given the bonus without the strings attached what this would of been. I’m guessing the Joyce Juice would of been a lot less!

Chris2303
20th Feb 2019, 22:03
Rumour is that theyíre also in talks with NZ to integrate their A321 flying also with the same group of pilots under the new QF/NZ joint venture.

I can't see the ACCC or the NZ Commerce Commission agreeing to a JV between two major competitors

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE
20th Feb 2019, 22:14
^^I’m pretty sure InZed was joking...

Berealgetreal
20th Feb 2019, 22:34
NEO 321? Incredible machine, Boeing have no answer nor do Virgin (at this stage).

Perfect timing with the SH eba. The old carrot, only issue is that SH 737 guys wouldn’t really want to fly a NEO.

Street garbage
20th Feb 2019, 23:53
Oh, it's EBA time, must have something to scare the worker's with...

Australopithecus
21st Feb 2019, 00:51
NEO 321? Incredible machine, Boeing have no answer nor do Virgin (at this stage).

Perfect timing with the SH eba. The old carrot, only issue is that SH 737 guys wouldnít really want to fly a NEO.

Since when do we get a vote on fleet decisions? But youíre right about the timing: classic QF IR ploy.

Berealgetreal
21st Feb 2019, 01:26
Just saying it looks impressive, was hoping Max10 could match the range. In Europe it’s opening up new routes.

The other point was that it might not be the carrot people might think.

Transition Layer
21st Feb 2019, 01:51
(Lobs hand grenade)

Well, all the sulky Ozmates returning from Knoteetingham with fresh Airboos ratings, obvs!

(and runs)

Haha yes, a grenade, but with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

However, if they were to add ďLinkĒ on the fuselage and a few rows of lie-flat sleeper Business seats, then itíd be an entirely different story unfortunately :(

crosscutter
21st Feb 2019, 02:03
And on which new routes would the ĎLinkí comfy seats be put on....because it wouldnít be on an existing Mainline route unless Mainline capacity miraculously increased further.

-438
21st Feb 2019, 02:23
There are currently rumours Qantas will be announcing an order of 737 MAX, A321neo, A330neo, A350, 788's returning from Jetstar and 777X. There was even a recent rumour of additional A380's (that rumour is probably dead now!)
Believe what you like, however AJ hasn't ordered any aircraft for Qantas since becoming CEO.
New aircraft orders are not good for his share price!!

crosscutter
21st Feb 2019, 04:15
Correct! AJ also has a habit of over promising but under delivering. Potential aircraft orders...meh...real improvements in lifestyle and conditions..ding ding ding ding.

Nov 2020 may just reinforce what AJ Qantas tenure will be remembered for.

downdata
21st Feb 2019, 05:51
Why buy aircrafts when you can buy back shares? Those LTI options are not going to vest thenselves!

Going Boeing
21st Feb 2019, 08:58
QF Domestic making record profits again, great news as there is no reason for the SH pilots to accept a sub standard deal
JQ Domestic also doing well
QF International profitable, hit by fuel costs but the increase in the first half will be fully recovered in the second half, so no reason to take flight plan fuel everywhere
smoke and haze around JQ international, nothing disclosed as usual.

QF International profitable, hit by fuel costs & STILL HAVING TO PAY SOME OF JQ INTERNATIONALís BILLS.

morno
21st Feb 2019, 15:16
QF International profitable, hit by fuel costs & STILL HAVING TO PAY SOME OF JQ INTERNATIONALís BILLS.

And your proof is where sir?

RickNRoll
21st Feb 2019, 18:16
There are currently rumours Qantas will be announcing an order of 737 MAX, A321neo, A330neo, A350, 788's returning from Jetstar and 777X. There was even a recent rumour of additional A380's (that rumour is probably dead now!)
Believe what you like, however AJ hasn't ordered any aircraft for Qantas since becoming CEO.
New aircraft orders are not good for his share price!!

Investing in the future isn't good for the share price. And this is an airline business, which runs on technology that is constantly evolving. Shareholders must be stupid.

help me jebus
21st Feb 2019, 19:22
Post edited

Australopithecus
21st Feb 2019, 19:42
Spoken as a Boeing guy, I'd prefer a 320/321/350 mix for everything if fleet commonality and strealined training paths were actually a thing. I think the 321 NEO and 350 both work very well in their respective roles, as probably will the 777-X. The 737Max is a sad answer to the 321...it’s an aeroplane that has roots that go halfway back to the Wright Bros. Lots of lipstick, but still a pig.

Whatever they decide it will be at odds with the hopes of at least half of us, it will be too little, and it will be too late.

Transition Layer
21st Feb 2019, 22:53
Hereís my guesses...

Sunrise/380 replacement - mixture of A350-900 and -1000 (16 total)
A330 North Asian (thinner routes) international flying replaced by B787 including 787-10s - (total fleet numbers around 40)
A330 domestic transcon and triangle, plus thinner short haul international replaced by 797 - (fleet of around 30)
Traditional domestic flying and off peak triangle/transcon replaced by 737 MAX 8 (60 aircraft)

So basically the versatile 797 picks up a portion of 737 and 330 flying, and the 787 does the long thin routes it does now in addition to most of the Asian A330 stuff apart from SIN. 737 MAXs replace the oldest of the 737 fleet and the long lead time on the 797 ties in well with the retirement of the newest aircraft in the 737 fleet.

Youíd end up with a Mainline fleet of approximately 140 aircraft versus 129 in 2020 when the 744s go and next tranche of 787s have arrived.

An eye watering amount of capex whichever way you look at it :ooh:

Bug Smasher Smasher
22nd Feb 2019, 02:07
An eye watering amount of capex whichever way you look at it :ooh:

But would be a lot more manageable if the CEO actually invested in the company rather than his share portfolio and started ordering jets now, not hospital passing an aging fleet to the next CEO whoíd be faced with the need for urgent fleet renewal.

MACH082
22nd Feb 2019, 02:15
I think youíve got that very wrong.

Qantas will put A321 neos on the triangle/trans cont and phase out the 330s.

The 737 fleet will be replaced by 320/321 neos

There will be token 787 services connecting to Europe on the west coast side and the americas on the east coast side.

Mainline will get the 787s from JQ which will become an all
A320/321 operator.

The 787-8 will probably do transcont and thin long distance routes.

They will look at the 797.

The A350 will be the project sunrise winner. Despite the 777 being a great aeroplane, itís an older design and with AJs emphasis on new technology, itís a new generation of jet.

This will replace 380s and they will get 20-30 of them.

MACH082
22nd Feb 2019, 03:40
From what I understand the tanks are the same size. The engines are de-rated and the config is more dense. Which is why they donít have the range.

The origanal plan at JQ was to take the -8s setup the network, take some -9s and give the -8s back to QF as transcontinental machines. Hence why they were setup without crew rest etc.

maggot
22nd Feb 2019, 04:22
Hereís my guesses...

Sunrise/380 replacement - mixture of A350-900 and -1000 (16 total)
A330 North Asian (thinner routes) international flying replaced by B787 including 787-10s - (total fleet numbers around 40)
A330 domestic transcon and triangle, plus thinner short haul international replaced by 797 - (fleet of around 30)
Traditional domestic flying and off peak triangle/transcon replaced by 737 MAX 8 (60 aircraft)

So basically the versatile 797 picks up a portion of 737 and 330 flying, and the 787 does the long thin routes it does now in addition to most of the Asian A330 stuff apart from SIN. 737 MAXs replace the oldest of the 737 fleet and the long lead time on the 797 ties in well with the retirement of the newest aircraft in the 737 fleet.

Youíd end up with a Mainline fleet of approximately 140 aircraft versus 129 in 2020 when the 744s go and next tranche of 787s have arrived.

An eye watering amount of capex whichever way you look at it :ooh:

Yeah I don't see an a330 neo neo order for us despite its suitability but I also doubt 787-10s. Just need a 'regional config' for a dozen or so 789s. Same sized jet as the 333 and better burn, cheaper maintenance (?) And some of the 333s are getting tired.

Rated De
22nd Feb 2019, 04:46
Oh, it's EBA time, must have something to scare the worker's with...

Right now in a super secret hiding spot, the covert team at Fort Fumble have spent months working the name of this new project...

'Project Sunset'

So long has Little Napoleon talked of new aircraft that his covert team realised the industry long ago re-equipped and moved on and that the sun has set...

Roj approved
22nd Feb 2019, 05:17
From what I understand the tanks are the same size. The engines are de-rated and the config is more dense. Which is why they donít have the range.

The origanal plan at JQ was to take the -8s setup the network, take some -9s and give the -8s back to QF as transcontinental machines. Hence why they were setup without crew rest etc.

The tanks are the same size, 101 tonnes of fuel.

The engines are 70k (although originally 64k)

335 seats

30 tonnes less MTOW so range would be about the same. (Average 4.5 t/hour burn)

As for the second part, that sounds like it could have been possible, the -8 would be a good City Flyer machine.

Rated De
22nd Feb 2019, 06:23
As for the second part, that sounds like it could have been possible, the -8 would be a good City Flyer machine.

That is precisely the specific plan behind the order.
They were to replace the aging 767 fleet, offering dual aisle capacity that was needed in space constrained monopoly airports. It is with more than a little irony that Little Napoleon complains of carpark charges and congestion when his fleet plan created a lot of it airside at domestic airports country wide. Instead Boston Bruce Buchanan then CEO of JQ, pitched the board that JQ was to get a few, then all the 788.
His reasoning was that ironically long haul low cost didn't work. It still doesn't but that is another discussion.

Instead Little Napoleon's preoccupation with JQ now sees QF domestic denied an aircraft that would have provided brand differentiation, yield potential and the ability to swing capacity when needed.
Instead QF cram 737 aircraft into already crowded terminal areas, onto crowded aprons and congested runways and have the temerity to claim that it is 'efficient'

Beer Baron
22nd Feb 2019, 07:33
30 tonnes less MTOW so range would be about the same.

Not sure about that. The 30T lower MTOW equates to about 345 passengers, and the stretched fuselage is not 30T heavier so unless the -8 is flying empty then the -9 will have a greater range.

MACH082
22nd Feb 2019, 08:00
The higher thrust engines and increased max takeoff weight of the -9 mean it can fill the tanks to the brim and carry a reasonable load.

You cant fill the tanks up in a 335 seat -8 and expect to carry 335 punters.

The ZFW of both is not hugely different from what I understand.

Roj approved
22nd Feb 2019, 10:38
Not sure about that. The 30T lower MTOW equates to about 345 passengers, and the stretched fuselage is not 30T heavier so unless the -8 is flying empty then the -9 will have a greater range.

Yes Beer Baron, I see your point. The Basic Empty Weights difference wouldnít be much, but QF wouldnít have much over 200 in an -8, so the tanks could be filled and the range would be similar.

Anyway, the QF 787 training manager has flown both so Iím sure he will be able to provide the numbers if this was to happen.

If there was any swapping of -8 for -9 or vis versa, you can guarantee it wonít be done until the new EAís are signed off in favour of the company.

RickNRoll
22nd Feb 2019, 20:53
There are currently rumours Qantas will be announcing an order of 737 MAX, A321neo, A330neo, A350, 788's returning from Jetstar and 777X. There was even a recent rumour of additional A380's (that rumour is probably dead now!)
Believe what you like, however AJ hasn't ordered any aircraft for Qantas since becoming CEO.
New aircraft orders are not good for his share price!!

What about the very soon to be announced in the very near future 797?

ANCDU
22nd Feb 2019, 23:01
Yes Beer Baron, I see your point. The Basic Empty Weights difference wouldnít be much, but QF wouldnít have much over 200 in an -8, so the tanks could be filled and the range would be similar.

Anyway, the QF 787 training manager has flown both so Iím sure he will be able to provide the numbers if this was to happen.

If there was any swapping of -8 for -9 or vis versa, you can guarantee it wonít be done until the new EAís are signed off in favour of the company.

If Qantas donít put more than 200 in a 787 why get it back. From what I read the A321 NEO can take up to 240 pax , I understand J* currently carry 230.Domestically even if you throw a few rows of business in you would still get over 200 pax in , with freight, at a burn of slightly less than a 738. Even trans continental the numbers donít really stack up for a 787 return to domestic with around 200 seats.

Saying that, and knowing the current management itís probably on the cards!!

MACH082
22nd Feb 2019, 23:43
Thatís going to be the conundrum with the 797.

The A321neo can carry over 200 in a dual class layout, and can do up to 4000nm. The 797 will have to be keenly priced and offer significant savings for it to be worthwhile.

The A321neo a very capable machine. Which is why I think the days are numbered for 787s at JQ.

ANCDU
23rd Feb 2019, 01:50
Thatís going to be the conundrum with the 797.

The A321neo can carry over 200 in a dual class layout, and can do up to 4000nm. The 797 will have to be keenly priced and offer significant savings for it to be worthwhile.

The A321neo a very capable machine. Which is why I think the days are numbered for 787s at JQ.

i agree with the last part, I see J* as being a solely narrow body airline in the not too distance future. The only thing that changes that could be the emergence of new markets that could be targeted by J*.

Beer Baron
23rd Feb 2019, 02:57
The 321NEO still wouldn't be able to fly JQ's Japan, Hawaii, Thailand and Vietnam routes would it? (Let alone connect up to Jetstar Hong Kong :ouch:)

wheels_down
23rd Feb 2019, 04:50
In a expected dense configuration HNL would be an issue westbound. Cairns to Japan would work.

PR have been flying it MNL-SYD/MEL which is the longest in this part of the world.

Still an an absolute weapon on long distance range over the MAX 10. But I donít think Virgin intended to use it on 7-10 hour trips so will just carry higher loads domestically which is probably a wise call after seeing recent profit numbers.

They did state they also intend to use them domestically to relieve some of the demand pressure with Sydney which is still over half a decade away from Western opening.

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE
23rd Feb 2019, 19:42
It has been communicated to the JQ pilot group in a video with Airbus representatives and JQ flight ops management late last year that the JQ A321neoLRs are only being configured with one additional fuel tank and its range will be enough to fly Sydney Bali with winter jet streams and around 90 mins fuel over destination. Hence a useable range of around 2,500nm.

This wonít be enough range to allow the LR to replace the 787-8 on most SE Asian routes.

The 4000nm range quoted by airbus is with 3 additional centre tanks and a light cabin configuration​​​​​​.

Donít forget those 232 pax on the JQ A321neoLRs have to put their bags somewhere and for every additional centre tank that is put in the aircraft a ULD position is taken away.

Rated De
23rd Feb 2019, 20:05
Great discussion, however has Little Napoleon actually ordered a solitary aircraft for Qantas in over a decade?

SixDemonBag
23rd Feb 2019, 21:38
Does a desk model count???
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/933x700/100_787_qantas_desk_934x700_c6ac2ae769b8d333120dfe79c2411c21 fccf4d96.jpg

PlasticFantastic
23rd Feb 2019, 21:52
Great discussion, however has Little Napoleon actually ordered a solitary aircraft for Qantas in over a decade?

He's confirmed that QF will order its ULH aircraft this year, and that they will use the non-ULH version of the same aircraft family for thicker, shorter routes.

He's also confirmed that they'll make a decision on narrowbody replacement next year.

They also have B787 options that can be used to replace the A330s for Asia flying, if required, depending on whether some of that flying goes to B797s or A359/Ks.

In other words, there is a timeframe to begin replacing almost the entire fleet (barring QFLink). We can continue chipping management for not having replaced the fleet sooner, if we like, but surely the more interesting and relevant discussion is what decisions they should make over the next 18 months.

Rated De
23rd Feb 2019, 23:56
Does a desk model count???
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/933x700/100_787_qantas_desk_934x700_c6ac2ae769b8d333120dfe79c2411c21 fccf4d96.jpg


Brilliant..

ConfigFull
23rd Feb 2019, 23:56
He's confirmed that QF will order its ULH aircraft this year, and that they will use the non-ULH version of the same aircraft family for thicker, shorter routes.

He's also confirmed that they'll make a decision on narrowbody replacement next year.

They also have B787 options that can be used to replace the A330s for Asia flying, if required, depending on whether some of that flying goes to B797s or A359/Ks.

In other words, there is a timeframe to begin replacing almost the entire fleet (barring QFLink). We can continue chipping management for not having replaced the fleet sooner, if we like, but surely the more interesting and relevant discussion is what decisions they should make over the next 18 months.

Plastic, you're right - to an extent. The question is, how much is this going to cost?? Goyder and the next CEO are copping the biggest hospital pass in QF's history.

Let's say it's a fuel-efficient twin, massive fuel savings (until frequency is increased but ignore that for a second) but also: cap raises on market, interest, depreciation - all of which hasn't been happening for years until the handful of 787s turned up.

Rated De
24th Feb 2019, 00:02
Plastic, you're right - to an extent. The question is, how much is this going to cost?? Goyder and the next CEO are copping the biggest hospital pass in QF's history.

Let's say it's a fuel-efficient twin, massive fuel savings (until frequency is increased but ignore that for a second) but also: cap raises on market, interest, depreciation - all of which hasn't been happening for years until the handful of 787s turned up.

It is the capex that will beach the ship.
That Little Napoleon has with the fossil Clifford sat idly by as the rudderless ship drifted ever closer to the lee shore, they quietly loaded up on options with interesting vesting dates. The strategy is either abject stupidity or simple greed. It could be a little from column A and a little from column B.

The cycle drag of the capex is very important and unfortunately if Mr Goyder chooses to sit idly by he may well wake to a nasty surprise.

PlasticFantastic
24th Feb 2019, 00:35
Agreed, capex will have to increase quite a bit over the next decade. But, I'm not as concerned about that as some.

Qantas has paid back about $3b in debt over the past few years, giving it room to take on new debt if required. It has also bought out a number of leases, and paid cash for most (all?) of the new 787s, freeing up cashflow. It has regained an investment grade rating, and has gone to pains to demonstrate that it can produce strong returns for shareholders over time.

All of those things mean that Qantas has a range of options to finance, lease or tap shareholders to pay for its fleet, and can likely do so on reasonably favourable terms - it doesn't have to pay for all of it from cashflow.

ConfigFull
24th Feb 2019, 00:57
Agreed, capex will have to increase quite a bit over the next decade. But, I'm not as concerned about that as some.

Qantas has paid back about $3b in debt over the past few years, giving it room to take on new debt if required. It has also bought out a number of leases, and paid cash for most (all?) of the new 787s, freeing up cashflow. It has regained an investment grade rating, and has gone to pains to demonstrate that it can produce strong returns for shareholders over time.

All of those things mean that Qantas has a range of options to finance, lease or tap shareholders to pay for its fleet, and can likely do so on reasonably favourable terms - it doesn't have to pay for all of it from cashflow.

Certainly not suggesting cashflow should fund capex - that would be nuts from a tax point of view alone; but all of these scenarios (to fund new aircraft) are going to decimate the balance sheet. Have a look at where the margins are: QF International is profitable on fuel price and (little) depreciation alone. Add in there funding costs and the whole thing falls apart. What happens at QF Domestic at the same time? They don't even have the massive fuel benefit (25-30% of all costs) of switching from 4-engine to 2-engine.

PlasticFantastic
24th Feb 2019, 01:51
Certainly not suggesting cashflow should fund capex - that would be nuts from a tax point of view alone; but all of these scenarios (to fund new aircraft) are going to decimate the balance sheet. Have a look at where the margins are: QF International is profitable on fuel price and (little) depreciation alone. Add in there funding costs and the whole thing falls apart. What happens at QF Domestic at the same time? They don't even have the massive fuel benefit (25-30% of all costs) of switching from 4-engine to 2-engine.

Agree, up to a point. It depends on how quickly they replace the fleet. A fair part of the B737 and A330 fleets are fairly young, and the A380s still have 7-12 years of life in them. So, I think they can space out their spending a bit.

That said, the point you make about new planes putting pressure on QFi's balance sheet in particular, is important. Based on Joyce's public statements, ASX statements, and QF's investments over the past few years, I think that it is fairly clear that QF has been trying to figure out whether buying new planes for QFi would create value, or whether QFi's competitive position is so weak that it would lose money on every new plane. The good news seems to be that QF has figured out how to fly QFi profitably again, and by:

lowering fuel and mx costs by replacing 747s and 767s with 787s - as you say, that can cut costs a lot on its own, but that obviously hasn't been enough on its own, or they would have gone a lot harder on purchasing 787s
flying routes that other airlines can't compete (heavily) on, such as LHR-PER, SYD-DFW, SYD-SCL etc - boosting revenue and reducing the risk of capacity wars
focusing on capturing more of the high-yielding traffic, by investing in products that corporate customers want (seats, service, lounges etc), using premium-heavy configurations, flying direct to business-heavy destinations, strengthening QFF, and leaving low-yield pax for JQ, EK, VA and NZ etc to fight over
flying smaller, more flexible planes, which give them more options if a market sours, and
lowering staff costs, by reducing headcount in headquarters, cheaper EBAs for pilots, crew, and ground and front-line staff, and outsourcing.

The fairly clear statements from Joyce and QF is that QFi's margins have gone up, so far, as a result of all of these changes. As long as new investments continue to boost margins, I think QFi will be ok to incrementally replace its fleet, even if that means putting some pressure on the balance sheet. The net result is that QFi looks very different today than it did 5 years ago, and it'll look even more different in 5-10 years if the trend continues. All of the public statements indicate that they are optimistic, and that the plan is to reshape the route map with new aircraft.

I don't think domestic will be as hard to replace. It's highly profitable, and has almost always been that way (except when there is a capacity war on with VA/AN etc). The benefits of moving from 738NGs to A320/1neos, B797s or 737MAXs will probably be fairly significant - upgauging will help a lot, and some of those new planes will open up interesting opportunities for regional international flying as well. Fairly easy to see a world in which QF puts a regional product on some 737MAX-10s, A321neos or 797s, and uses them for transcontinental, as well as SIN/CGK/DPS/AKL etc flying, as well as fairly happily rotating them through the triangle during peak periods.

TLDR: I'm optimistic.

Rated De
24th Feb 2019, 05:00
QF International is profitable on fuel price and (little) depreciation alone. Add in there funding costs and the whole thing falls apart. What happens at QF Domestic at the same time? They don't even have the massive fuel benefit (25-30% of all costs) of switching from 4-engine to 2-engine.

That the board and executive management knew this and failed, when cashflow was in surplus and debt could be sourced cheaply, to do anything other than buy-back shares and having done so, miraculously have a huge number of executive options vest is negligent at best.

hazohag
24th Feb 2019, 05:11
What is the difference in cost to operate for the 320 neo vs 321?
Would a fleet of solely 220, 321 and 350 work?

I'd imagine a lot of cost savings - and the three types could replace the 73, 71, 78, 332, 333, and possibly 74.
The 220 could possibly even replace a lot of Dash and Fokker flying.

Being the one manufacturer, surely a good deal could be done to transition.

tdracer
25th Feb 2019, 03:54
Being the one manufacturer, surely a good deal could be done to transition.
Actually locking yourself into one manufacture makes it far harder to get a 'good deal'. The airlines regularly play Boeing and AB off against each other to get the best possible deal. As soon as Boeing or AB decide that an airline isn't really interested in their aircraft and are just using them to play off against the other guy, they loose interest and all your bargaining power goes away.
That's why, except for some VLC operators who operate a single type, you seldom see an operator who has an all Airbus or all Boeing fleet.

Lapon
25th Feb 2019, 10:28
I'd imagine a lot of cost savings - and the three types could replace the 73, 71, 78, 332, 333, and possibly 74.

I doubt the savings would justify the acquisition costs.
This years iPhone may be better than last years, but probably not worth replacing it for.

Actually locking yourself into one manufacture makes it far harder to get a 'good deal'
Which is why Air NZ were never going to get 738's despite the decision 'being a close call'.

thec172man
3rd Apr 2019, 01:18
I wonder with the latest 737MAX issues, would that sway the domestic replacement type decision towards the 320/321NEOs.

maggot
3rd Apr 2019, 02:07
I wonder with the latest 737MAX issues, would that sway the domestic replacement type decision towards the 320/321NEOs.
More likely cheap 737 MAX

thec172man
5th Apr 2019, 04:38
More likely cheap 737 MAX

true, it'd be interesting to see how this pans out for Boeing and the 737 MAX program, and whether it'd be an extra incentive for QF to switch to the 320/1 NEO, with some of its advantages in the container loading, and future engine upgrade capabilities.

machtuk
5th Apr 2019, 04:54
Hope Boeing have plenty of clean sheets of paper, you can only milk a cow for so long!:}

maggot
5th Apr 2019, 05:52
true, it'd be interesting to see how this pans out for Boeing and the 737 MAX program, and whether it'd be an extra incentive for QF to switch to the 320/1 NEO, with some of its advantages in the container loading, and future engine upgrade capabilities.
Nah
Purely cheapest Capex for this mob. Then they can make efficiency gain
bonuses all-round!

wheels_down
5th Apr 2019, 09:35
Iíd expect ULR order to go with Airbus and part of the agreement would be deferring half the current NEO order to the back half of this decade.

Jetstar Affiliates in other regions seem to be going there own ways in securing aircraft.

Half the fleet doesnít need replacing. On the other hand the 20 year old 321 shitboxes need to be sent to the graveyard!

Transition Layer
6th Apr 2019, 01:54
Half the fleet doesnít need replacing. On the other hand the 20 year old 321 shitboxes need to be sent to the graveyard!

...or Network!

gordonfvckingramsay
6th Apr 2019, 07:26
...or Network!

aaahhhhhh, LeCarrot

morno
6th Apr 2019, 08:49
Why not just give Network all the new NEOís and then let them operate them and get rid of the 737 fleet. Will save money because the crew are more productive for less

crosscutter
6th Apr 2019, 08:56
Yawn. Fair Work Act. Yawn

goodonyamate
6th Apr 2019, 09:04
Why not just give Network all the new NEOís and then let them operate them and get rid of the 737 fleet. Will save money because the crew are more productive for less

why not get rid of jetstar and let network operate that as well! In fact, why not get rid of everything Australian and just import everything! Jobs, products, who cares!

Scooter Rassmussin
6th Apr 2019, 09:22
Unfortunately the Network growth will be at the expense of mainline , starting in Perth .

morno
6th Apr 2019, 09:52
why not get rid of jetstar and let network operate that as well! In fact, why not get rid of everything Australian and just import everything! Jobs, products, who cares!

Thatís a great idea!

dr dre
7th Apr 2019, 04:19
Unfortunately the Network growth will be at the expense of mainline , starting in Perth .

Unlikely, Network can barely keep crews for the aircraft it has now, and those F100ís are getting long in the tooth. Any extra 320ís headed there will be for F100 replacement as consolidation.

This theory that Network will be flooded with 320ís and completely replace SH is ludicrous.

Jc31
7th Apr 2019, 10:32
Unlikely, Network can barely keep crews for the aircraft it has now, and those F100ís are getting long in the tooth. Any extra 320ís headed there will be for F100 replacement as consolidation.

This theory that Network will be flooded with 320ís and completely replace SH is ludicrous.

suplus crews on both fleets at the moment. Network can definitely absorb more frames and flying right now.

dr dre
7th Apr 2019, 11:48
suplus crews on both fleets at the moment. Network can definitely absorb more frames and flying right now.

Thinking of the long run however. A lot of current crew will transfer to mainline, and 320 time in the logbook will open up a world of contract opportunities to others. Donít see it as much of a viable aspect far beyond their current operations

Jc31
7th Apr 2019, 13:32
Thinking of the long run however. A lot of current crew will transfer to mainline, and 320 time in the logbook will open up a world of contract opportunities to others. Donít see it as much of a viable aspect far beyond their current operations
A lot of the captain ranks already have Airbus time and for most command on other types of jets. I canít see many if any chasing contract work overseas. Most people at network are there because they want to live in Perth. As for mainline. A few are leaving but their departure is staggered. This wonít have any effect on crewing numbers.

ebt
8th Apr 2019, 01:38
Unlikely, Network can barely keep crews for the aircraft it has now, and those F100ís are getting long in the tooth. Any extra 320ís headed there will be for F100 replacement as consolidation.

This theory that Network will be flooded with 320ís and completely replace SH is ludicrous.

The F100s will still be the go-to for most new customers for Network on the charter side, and the intrastate RPT work. Only a few sites (mostly FMG) take the A320s, and the weekend work to Broome is just utilising time that they would otherwise be on the ground in Perth, and a handy way of keeping the state government away from regulating the intrastate jet routes.