Virgin Atlantic Boeing 787-9 Hits 801 mph Ground Speed Due to Jet Stream

[PastTense]

A Virgin Atlantic flight making the grueling journey from Los Angeles to London yesterday hit a ground speed of at least 801 mph, thanks to a streak of fast-moving air in the jet stream over Pennsylvania.
https://jalopnik.com/a-commercial-flight-hits-an-absurdly-fast-801-mph-while-1832733268

[patty50]

Very quick. Hope the pilots made it “official” although not a top 3 for a 789.

https://groundspeedrecords.com/

Looks like a few records beaten in the last week. E175 that did 668kt at .801.

[Jump Complete]

When I flew ATR’s one of my fellow First Officers proudly showed me a photo of a ground speed of 404 kts. In an ATR, THAT’s impressive! 😄

[JW411]

I once did LAX to LGW in a Laker DC-10-30 in 8 hours 49 minutes (take-off to landing).

[Onceapilot]

801MPH? Guess that is Statute miles hour, 695 Kts G/S. Wow! I saw over 700Kts G/S several times in my L1011 and, more excitingly, over 700KIAS at low level in a different triple-spool powered machine. :)

OAP

[admiral ackbar]

LAX-LHR is a grueling flight?

[bnt]

It is if you're in "cattle class". (I've done to and from Seattle, which was maybe an hour shorter.)

[Meester proach]

Good effort virgin guys/ girls.

I’m not surprised , there has been some strong jets around the last few days, and it’s been pretty bumpy all the way across.

[standbykid]

I flew YYZ to LGW in November around 7 years ago. The Captain mentioned he wanted to delay departure as due to the jet stream he; "didn't want to be sitting on the ground at Gatwick waiting for a gate." We took off fairly shortly as it happened and did the flight in just over 6 hours (take off to landing) which is the quickest I've ever done it in scores of flights over 40 years.

Not as quick as the OP, but very welcome.

[golfbananajam]

https://jalopnik.com/a-commercial-flight-hits-an-absurdly-fast-801-mph-while-1832733268


At least? 0 to 801 mph in 0 seconds is some acceleration and then 801 to 0 is some braking performance

[Juggler25]

Had a Norwegian 789 a couple of weeks back asking for a direct as he was on track for beating the company record for JFK - LGW. He did it in 5 hours 11 minutes, breaking the record by 2 minutes. I've no idea what the actual record for this route is? Can't be far off (unless Concorde did it obviously).

[Bellerophon]

Juggler25

Concorde G-BOAD, 07 February 1996, JFK-LHR, 2h 52m 59s

[Winemaker]

At least? 0 to 801 mph in 0 seconds is some acceleration and then 801 to 0 is some braking performance

??? The article actually explained quite well what was going on. I didn't read anything about 0 to 801 mph, just a decent explanation for the lay public about winds aloft, flying in them, and ground speed.

[NWA SLF]

What ground speeds are found on flights over Japan. I remember in WWII the US Army Air Corps needed to switch from precision bombing to area fire bombing because wind speeds at B-29 bombing altitude sometimes exceeded 200 mph and the bombsights could not compensate for the variations of wind speed over the altitudes through which they fell. I remember my first trip from North America to Tokyo by the ground speed we making down the Kamchatka peninsula we were going to arrive a couple hours early. Then the ground speed started dropping, and dropping, and dropping, and I began to wonder if we were ever going to get there although Kamchatka is very scenic. I remembered war history and the wind problem - we arrived right on schedule. So flying from Tokyo to North America I thought 800 mph ground speeds would be quite common. After all flying toward Tokyo I remember reaching ground speeds lower than 350 mph on just a normal trip.

[Juggler25]

Juggler25

Concorde G-BOAD, 07 February 1996, JFK-LHR, 2h 52m 59s

Yeaaah I was talking about Gatwick. Well aware of Concorde into Heathrow! I'm taking about the sub sonic aircraft record for JFK - LGW as per the flight I was talking about.

[DaveReidUK]

Had a Norwegian 789 a couple of weeks back asking for a direct as he was on track for beating the company record for JFK - LGW. He did it in 5 hours 11 minutes, breaking the record by 2 minutes. I've no idea what the actual record for this route is?

That time presumably is the record, given that the 15 January 2018 time of 5 hours 13 minutes (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/norwegian-plane-boeing-harold-van-dam-new-york-jfk-london-gatwick-travel-holiday-a8169496.html) was widely reported at the time as a record subsonic time.

[Lake1952]

Multiple US westbound nonstop trans-cons were forced to pull up short with planned technical stops last week. These were flights using A320s, A321s and B738s. Flights from BOS, BDL, IAD, PHL etc used planned stops in DEN, STL, MCI, MSP, BOI, and even LAS to refuel.

[India Four Two]

Probably needs careful planning if you're going the other way!

It certainly did on my flight from Vancouver to Seoul on Tuesday. Our track was way north of the normal routing.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/560x369/ac_yvr_icn_img_2105_0af8b3f127958e366815cccd9013162d5538afb9 .jpg


This is the second time I've flown trans-Pacific without "crossing the Pacific". Just like the first time, this was due to a major low in the Bering Sea, right in the middle of the GC track. I couldn't find the 500 mb chart, but here's the surface prog:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/567x303/screen_shot_2019_02_21_at_08_37_32_copy_f12e90ed7ed3e2a220c2 318ee55238779bb3faf3.png

My flight was over central Alaska at the time, approaching Fairbanks.

As an aside, here's our track approaching ICN. Guess whose airspace we were avoiding! :E

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/665x499/ac_icn_img_2107_copy_86deb1aa886473d933d6ef940e33fae98be4142 3.jpg

[Octane]

Some newspapers are reporting the aircraft went supersonic...:hmm:

[DaveReidUK]

Some newspapers are reporting the aircraft went supersonic...

Shock News: mainstream media fails to understand simple physics.

[RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike]

Juggler25

Concorde G-BOAD, 07 February 1996, JFK-LHR, 2h 52m 59s

“You are Tim Orchard and I claim my five pounds” ;-)

[daelight]

What ground speeds are found on flights over Japan. Yes, JP has very fast jet close by, but doesn't extend as far (proportionally) as the Atlantic jet-stream, I think. Sometimes see flightradar24 showing 690 - 700kts but they don't stay that speed for long and more often are in the 650 - 670kt range. With the larger distance to cover between SE Asia to America, the overall time isn't quite as dramatic as the US - UK speedway?

[A340Yumyum]

Yep, had to traverese ‘that’ jet stream LGW-Florida on Monday. Worst turb I’ve experienced in last 10 years.

[DirtyProp]

Meh. I did 126 kts on a C152, once.
And no, we were not descending!
:}

[GordonR_Cape]

Its all over the internet now. Article in Wired is a mixture of truth and hyperbole: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/jet-stream-virgin-passenger-jet-speed
This trick goes back to some of the historic flights in air travel history. The Spirit of St. Louis, the first flight taken across the atlantic, went from West to East, the direction jet streams predominantly blow.
Edit: I bet Charles Lindbergh would be pleased to know that he flew at jet stream altitudes in an unpressurised aircraft, and Alcock and Brown would be rather shocked that they were not the first(*) to fly across the Atlantic.
Edit: * non-stop

[OPENDOOR]

Not to mention that 81 people successfully flew across the Atlantic before Lindbergh. He just had better publicity.

[DaveReidUK]

I bet Charles Lindbergh would be pleased to know that he flew at jet stream altitudes in an unpressurised aircraft, and Alcock and Brown would be rather shocked that they were not the first to fly across the Atlantic.

Alcock and Brown knew perfectly well that they weren't the first to fly across the Atlantic.

[rog747]

I once did LAX to LGW in a Laker DC-10-30 in 8 hours 49 minutes (take-off to landing).


OOH I might have been on that flight too - rings a big bell that we crossed in well under 9 hours...
As an aside-
I was on the very last Laker flight from LGW into LAX Feb 82 - They had already cut back and were in trouble, and LAX was now not a daily flight.
I was on a staff Jolly (£10) meeting up in LAX with my BA crew pal who had a 5 day trip and GK went bust on my second day...!
BA LAX staff were very kind and flew me home in the new Super Club on my pal's flight - on my now quite worthless staff ticket

Had a very fast WB flight on a Virgin 787 Jan 2017 LHR-MIA - we rerouted very southerly, Azores, and got there in well under 8 hours

[JW411]

rog747:

The date was 19.12.1980. G-BGXG LAX 0224Z LGW 1113Z.

[EIFFS]

Best I’ve seen over the Atlantic is 648 knots, not super fast I know, but not bad for a 737 MAX, worst head wind 211 knots 8 hours EDI to PVD

[KRviator]

Dunno what all the hoopla is about. Airbus has got them beat with their Hypersonic A330...Flew as SLF on an A330 a few months ago and a cruise speed of Mach 3 was in order. :}
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7884/46446860044_1d1eca1025_c.jpg

[NWA SLF]

Once again bringing up Japan - reading meteorologist reports from WWII frequently forecasting 160 - 180 knot winds at 35,000 feet over Japan and having flights measure 240 knot wind speeds. Also the report of a B-29 weather plane making a routine mission beginning in the Marianas and ending up in the Aleutians due to determining the only possible airfield at which they could land safely being up there. Now adding 240 knots to 490 knot cruise has got to be an impressive ground speed - like 840 mph.

[retreating blade]

Saw 204 kts ground speed in an AS332L (Helicopter!) heading north some 20 years ago over the North Sea. Flying back to ABZ was somewhat tedious later that morning.

[nike]

No need to go back to WWII met data, happens every year, winter months the strongest over japan and pacific.

Plenty of us up there making the most of it too...

[PhantomPilot]

This "news" got really out of hand. The whole concept of groundspeed vs airspeed is just absent from all the articles I've read. Starting with a corporate pilot that said "he has never seen such speed in his whole 25yrs of experience as a commercial pilot" Well I guess that guy never encountered a jetstream before. Newspapers, pilots, and even Richard Branson got it all wrong. I cannot believe the dimension this thing got.

[Meester proach]

Shock News: mainstream media fails to understand simple physics.

Daily fail I find the worst. Their aviation correspondent would appear to be a toddler.

[togsdragracing]

Juggler25

Concorde G-BOAD, 07 February 1996, JFK-LHR, 2h 52m 59s

Dumb question: is this stuff measured wheels off to wheels down, or gate to gate?

[DaveReidUK]

Dumb question: is this stuff measured wheels off to wheels down, or gate to gate?

There's no such thing as a dumb question, only a dumb answer. :O

The timings for last month's record-breaking Norwegian JFK-LGW flight were (all Z):
Out: 16:20
Off: 16:36
On: 21:47
In: 21:55

So the claimed 5 hrs 11 mins was from wheels-off to wheels-on.

[TWOEIGHTL]

I once did LAX to LGW in a Laker DC-10-30 in 8 hours 49 minutes (take-off to landing).

Wow, thats fast ! I wonder which aircraft holds the record. I guess it's something like a DC10, L1011, Convair 990 or a VC10 ?

[oceancrosser]

Once again bringing up Japan - reading meteorologist reports from WWII frequently forecasting 160 - 180 knot winds at 35,000 feet over Japan and having flights measure 240 knot wind speeds. Also the report of a B-29 weather plane making a routine mission beginning in the Marianas and ending up in the Aleutians due to determining the only possible airfield at which they could land safely being up there. Now adding 240 knots to 490 knot cruise has got to be an impressive ground speed - like 840 mph.

So you add two figures in knots and the outcome is in mph...:ugh:

[Private jet]

Fastest I've ever done was "only" 604 kt G/S, (145 kt T/W comp) , but I was flying a CL604 at the time so I thought that was very appropriate! Also was an Atlantic eastbound, Bangor Maine - Luton I think the airbourne time was around 5h 30 (can't remember) I only have the sector time in my book. Quite good for a Chally I think. Good routing close to the great circle, on the jetstream, no delays on arrival. Perfect apart from the fact it was bump bump bump for hours. Trying to eat or drink anything was just aim and hope haha.

[5LY]

To answer NWA SLF, In my days flying out of Seoul we had a daily schedule to Hawaii on the 777. Between Japan and Hawaii we would get very strong jet streams. I several times broke 700 knots ground speed (just over 800 mph).

[GordonR_Cape]

Dumb question (not a pilot): What was the approximate indicated airspeed (IAS) on these flights? Was the ground speed (sum of true airspeed plus wind vector) more than twice the IAS? If so, is that interesting in any way, or just a numerical coincidence?

[RodH]

Back in the 70's I was a F/O on a B727-100 Flying from Perth in Western Australia to Melbourne in Victoria.
At one stage over the great Australian bight we had +225kts tail wind at FL310 and a G/S of 750kts for about 30 minutes. We did wind the old girl up to M.89 just for while.
The dear old B727-100 could really get a move on if needed.
Lovely to fly as well.

[eckhard]

Dumb question (not a pilot): What was the approximate indicated airspeed (IAS) on these flights? Was the ground speed (sum of true airspeed plus wind vector) more than twice the IAS? If so, is that interesting in any way, or just a numerical coincidence?

Around 250-280kts, depending on altitude.

[DaveReidUK]

Dumb question (not a pilot): What was the approximate indicated airspeed (IAS) on these flights? Was the ground speed (sum of true airspeed plus wind vector) more than twice the IAS? If so, is that interesting in any way, or just a numerical coincidence?

The relationship between IAS and TAS isn't really affected by whether there's a tailwind or headwind.

I'm looking at an overflying EK B77W that's reporting (via Mode S) a TAS of 476 kts and IAS of 289 kts, which is pretty typical. Given those 200 kts+ tailwind components that we're discussing, that would give a GS that's well over double the IAS, but I wouldn't attach any particular significance to that.

[Private jet]

Dumb question (not a pilot): What was the approximate indicated airspeed (IAS) on these flights? Was the ground speed (sum of true airspeed plus wind vector) more than twice the IAS? If so, is that interesting in any way, or just a numerical coincidence?

The cruise speed controlling parameter is Mach number. (In fact the later part of the climb too but lets not complicate things) The TAS equivalent of that is dependant on the temperature outside at that location and flight level. TAS is IAS corrected for non ISA sea level air density which is a factor of the flight level & the temperature at that level. Yes I know clear as mud, but like many things once it "clicks" and see it all in action it's obvious. But to give you a "ballpark" set of numbers ; FL360 Temp ISA (-56) M 0.80 TAS 460 IAS 265 The groundspeed is the TAS plus or minus tailwind/headwind component.

[Bellerophon]

togsdragracing

...is this stuff measured wheels off to wheels down, or gate to gate?...

As DaveReidUK has said, no such thing as a dumb question in aviation. Dumb statements are another matter!!

This time was measured from wheels off to wheels on - as is usually the case - but I've been told the flight wasn't very much over 3 hours gate to gate!


RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike (https://www.pprune.org/members/48793-romeotangofoxtrotmike)

He was the First Officer - so a good guess - but not a correct one! :)

[Private jet]

togsdragracing

...is this stuff measured wheels off to wheels down, or gate to gate?...

As DaveReidUK has said, no such thing as a dumb question in aviation. Dumb statements are another matter!!

This time was measured from wheels off to wheels on - as is usually the case - but I've been told the flight wasn't very much over 3 hours gate to gate!


RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike (https://www.pprune.org/members/48793-romeotangofoxtrotmike)

He was the First Officer - so a good guess - but not a correct one! :)

So why was that one faster than normal? AFAIK the Concordes flew on fixed tracks and were above the jetstream winds for the cruise portion.

[rjtjrt]

Back in the 70's I was a F/O on a B727-100 Flying from Perth in Western Australia to Melbourne in Victoria.
At one stage over the great Australian bight we had +225kts tail wind at FL310 and a G/S of 750kts for about 30 minutes. We did wind the old girl up to M.89 just for while.
The dear old B727-100 could really get a move on if needed.
Lovely to fly as well.
Rod, pretty impressive.
How did you measure the GS?
I assume out of range for DME in the Bight. Pre GPS of course.
I can’t recall if TAA or Ansett 727-100’s had inertial, but doubt it.

[bia botal]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x960/1ce57a5c_5b72_4679_9ac3_f05b1e6b15af_153255da5b2b69647d0d0c2 b791eeced85243dbb.jpeg
B777, January 16th 2018. 818mph

[FE Hoppy]

If only i'd known this was a thing I would have been having kittens every time we flew eastbound across the pond.