BEA and BOAC Cadet Pilots Hamble Brochures circa 1962

[DGAC]

I've been in the loft again and unearthed a brochure relating to the the BEA "Cadet Pilots Scheme"

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/880x2000/bea_hamble_2_c2e80647bf8d20a7df309fe4c77cfc50a60010e0.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x2000/bea_hamble_1_d64490fa3a81b3c120333e7610e5c86ce0f553f1.jpeg

and then I found the BOAC equivalent . Many more pages, and would you believe that at the age of 28 you might be earning £2000 per annum!! (page 3)

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1820x2000/hamble_1_7ae8168612320c5a6dd55c92c6efa82a0ce9b2e2.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1820x2000/hamble_2_e3c6eeb48f07a1720eb8baa647fc7f73e209d1ea.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1820x2000/hamble_3_f7d1ed9195d00188506a767c7694b82e9dbec0c3.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1820x2000/hamble_4_971f184341972f4c59392a77ecdc0cc977143c83.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1820x2000/hamble_5_58ccff2a039ffa6965f499e1fefe94e2d15e83ad.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1820x2000/hamble_7_8ad3217cbd5571dfb9e1bf33f03e67b0c7f21f5e.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1820x2000/hamble_8_e49086f36786d587b08c4af4c95ad4c91901afb5.jpeg

Unfortunately, I could not get the centre pages to upload. They are photographic pages, with "BOAC Headquarters in the centre, surrounded by photos of The Royal Family disembarking from a DH Comet, a Boeing 707, Alcock and Brown statue with DH Comet in the background, and a Bristol Britannia.

[Bergerie1]

DGAC,

This needs to go on the College of Air Training website. I have emailed the coordinator of this site suggesting that he contact you.

https://sites.google.com/site/collegeofairtraining/

[DGAC]

Thank you for the suggestion. I have heard from the coordinator and will be in touch with him later today.

[vctenderness]

What does the contribution of £1,000 equate to in today’s money? I know that when I first started work in the 1960’s they talked of a £1,000 per year man as being pretty well off.

The salary range of £2 to £5K for qualified Pilot is an eye opener as well.

[Jhieminga]

That is a great find, thanks for sharing it! Interesting to see the same Chipmunk G-AMUC turning up, which is also shown on my site here: http://www.vc10.net/Memories/IFRcockpit.html (scroll down). (http://www.vc10.net/Memories/IFRcockpit.html)

[blind pew]

I was hod carrying for that sort of money in the mid sixties. “the caring” corporations took the grand back after tax. My starting pay was around a grand gross in 1971..bit more than half of that net. £600 for an instructor rating at booker at corporations subsidised rates with the fabulous Joan Hughes.
But we had to do two years SO, two years AFO and then we got Dan Air starting pay. 79 I joined the Swiss leaving 7 year SFO pay..gross starting pay was double ..net around four times..couldn’t tell my mates as they wouldn’t believe it.

[Offchocks]

What does the contribution of £1,000 equate to in today’s money?

Using an online inflation calculator, I came up with £1000 in 1962 is the equivalent of £20,932 in 2018.

[Discorde]

Using an online inflation calculator, I came up with £1000 in 1962 is the equivalent of £20,932 in 2018.

That's about right. The purchasing power of £1 today approximates to a shilling 60 years ago. Those of us who did the BEA/BOAC sponsored course for graduates at Kidlington were told that the cost of the training was approx £5000, of which we would repay £1000 over 5 years.

Interesting that the 707 in the BOAC pamphlet doesn't feature the 'D P Davies' mods - heightened fin (to improve directional stability and engine-out handling) and ventral fin (to prevent over-rotation on take-off). Is the photo a mock-up or a Boeing demonstrator in BOAC livery?

[vctenderness]

Using an online inflation calculator, I came up with £1000 in 1962 is the equivalent of £20,932 in 2018.



So not as much a bargain as it looks at first glance!

[DaveReidUK]

Interesting that the 707 in the BOAC pamphlet doesn't feature the 'D P Davies' mods - heightened fin (to improve directional stability and engine-out handling) and ventral fin (to prevent over-rotation on take-off). Is the photo a mock-up or a Boeing demonstrator in BOAC livery?

It looks like a touched-up -320.

[Bergerie1]

BOAC didn't have -320s then.

[DaveReidUK]

BOAC didn't have -320s then.

Yes, it's another airline's -320 with the livery touched up. :ugh:

[tubby linton]

-20 is the customer code for Boeing, BOAC used -36. BOAC did operate the -336 and the -436. According to Hansard the -336 were delivered in factory condition and were modified after flight test by the ARB. In the photo the engines do look like Conways, was this taken before DPD got his hands on it?

[DaveReidUK]

-20 is the customer code for Boeing, BOAC used -36. BOAC did operate the -336 and the -436. According to Hansard the -336 were delivered in factory condition and were modified after flight test by the ARB.

It would be more accurate to say that -320 (and -420) was the generic designation, with customer aircraft being delivered with the variant code specific to the operator.

In the same way that, for example, BA's 747-436s can also be (and are) correctly described as 747-400s.

I'm not sure if that gets us any further forward with identifying the touched up 707, if that's what it is. A big more digging suggests that it might in fact be a pre-delivery (pre-mod) -436 publicity photo, and there's a Flight photo from September 1959 that shows one in that condition prior to delivery to BOAC. That would fit with the vintage of the Hamble brochure.

[tubby linton]

I disagree wholeheartedly with your first two paragraphs, especially with regard to how aircraft appear on the UK registers. There is nothing accurate about it.
Your notion is that of an amateur’s description.It also does not conform with the code used on flightplans.

[DaveReidUK]

I disagree wholeheartedly with your first two paragraphs, especially with regard to the UK registers. Your notion is that of an amateur description.It also does not conform with the code used on flightplans

On the contrary, it conforms exactly to the code used on flightplans.

A Boeing 707-338C (for example those still flying with Omega Air) would be flightplanned as "B703", which decodes as "Boeing 707-300". ATC couldn't care less that "38" is Qantas's customer code, and I'd hardly describe them as "amateurs".

Likewise, any airline's 747-400s (say BA's 747-436s or Singapore's 747-412Fs) would be flightplanned as "B744" ("Boeing 747-400").

See https://www.icao.int/publications/doc8643/Pages/default.aspx

[tubby linton]

You don’t need to mansplain where the codes come from. I do know.You are alos contradicting your own earlier post. Keep underlining the reggies

[DaveReidUK]

So what's your point ?

I have no idea what you are trying to argue.

[treadigraph]

Pic of G-AMUH - DC-3 looming above the photographer?

[DaveReidUK]

Pic of G-AMUH - DC-3 looming above the photographer?

It certainly looks like one.

Hard to tell whether it's at Hamble or the Chippie is on a cross-country somewhere.

Edit: Probably at Hamble - the College apparently had several DC-3s, presumably as ground instructional trainers.

[treadigraph]

I remember 'MUF from my first few visits to Biggin in the mid-1970s and pleased to see she's still going strong at Redhill. I made a couple of visits to Hamble in the late 70s, pretty sure still several Chippies there amongst the CAT Barons and Cherokee 180s, property of Southampton UAS. Think UAS went to Bournemouth with the advent of Bulldogs?

[Jn14:6]

The UAS Bulldogs did come to Hamble. Disappeared later to BOH, then Boscombe IIRC.

[Border Reiver]

Tredigraph,

CAT itself certainly had chipmunks through July 80, my flight on one being cancelled due tech.

[Bergerie1]

tubbyl and DaveR,

I am pretty sure it is a 707-436 photographed before the modifications required by D P Davies before it could go on the UK register. Listen here:-
https://www.aerosociety.com/news/audio-the-d-p-davies-interview-on-testing-the-comets-boeing-707-britannia-brabazon/

I remember that Hamble brochure well as I received one in 1959 or '60 before I went to Hamble in 1960.

[DaveReidUK]

tubbyl and DaveR,

I am pretty sure it is a 707-436 photographed before the modifications required by D P Davies before it could go on the UK register. Listen here:-
https://www.aerosociety.com/news/audio-the-d-p-davies-interview-on-testing-the-comets-boeing-707-britannia-brabazon/

I remember that Hamble brochure well as I received one in 1959 or '60 before I went to Hamble in 1960.

Good find !

I'm still undecided as to whether it's a pre-delivery BOAC -436 or a -320 touched up in BOAC livery. I've found another photo, presumably taken on the same sortie as the Hamble brochure photo, but this time in colour:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1515/boac_boeing_707_6d44c2917883118d7bebe3f5e45ec2228152e751.jpg

https://davidlearmount.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/boac-boeing-707.jpg

Note that, if it's genuine, it's flying pre-mod but with its G- registration.

What we need is an expert who can tell the difference between a JT3 and a Conway. :O

[Bergerie1]

That aircraft has RR Conway engines - no doubt whatsoever!

[Bergerie1]

G-APFB (ex N31241) date of UK CofA, May 1960. Probably delivered to BOAC very soon after DPD's required modifications.

[GotTheTshirt]

The Hamble system worked too well !! After a while they found they were churning out more than BOAC could take so they were furloughed and we had two of them flying the Aztec at Air London based in Gatwick and Biggin !

[DaveReidUK]

G-APFB (ex N31241) date of UK CofA, May 1960. Probably delivered to BOAC very soon after DPD's required modifications.

Yes, its first flight (19th May 1959) was nearly a year before delivery (9th May 1960). So no prizes for guessing the reason for the long delay. :O

The UK registration was issued, along with the rest of the G-APFx batch, on 7th August 1959, so the photo must have been taken between then and delivery.

That aircraft has RR Conway engines - no doubt whatsoever!

OK, thanks.

[treadigraph]

I can't recall the CAT Chipmunks or RAF Bulldogs there at all! My brother lived at Bursledon,so I often visited and usually nipped over to peer over the fence. Sadly he'd moved elsewhere by the time Ron Souch took over the hangar... I walked across the airfield a few years back, now a scrubby common with a few ponies as I recall.

[DaveReidUK]

The UAS Bulldogs did come to Hamble. Disappeared later to BOH, then Boscombe IIRC.

SUAS currently flies from Boscombe Down.

A potted history of the squadron on the RAF website also mentions a spell at Lee-on-Solent: https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisation/university-air-squadrons/squadrons/southampton-university-air-squadron/

[Jn14:6]

I was a cadet there 1974-76. We still had 4 Chipmunks, G-ARMB,D,F,and G, although only 2 serviceable. At the beginning of my time there, the UAS operated Chippies before transitioning to the Bulldog.

[ex-cx]

......Chippies still there 79-80 too John ;-)

[treadigraph]

Must have seen them then but just recall a couple of UAS Chippies outside a small hangar on the SW side of the airfield.

[chevvron]

When I arrived at Farnborough and commenced training on LARS in 1974, I was told not to pass a Hamble based aircraft his position (normally required in those days when identifying an aircraft) unless he actually requested it.
On more than one occasion, the student would come on frequency with a position report, then the instructor would come on and say 'I'll just get the student to un-plug then tell you where we really are'!

[Gordomac]

Lurking about with a flu virus from hell, this is a joyful find. On cost etc, having failed Hamble selection part one, AH Abbott steered me towards BUA but I failed the first stage interview of that too. However, got a BKS sponsored Cadetship at OATS in 1971. Ministry of Aviation no longer involved in funding so BKS paid all costs with graduates repaying one third (roughly) over five years from salary. As others have said, it was about a thousand quid. BKS/Cambrian cadets did quite well because we went straight from OATS or AST Perth to RHS Viscount. After Final Line Check (about three months) we were promoted from Second Officer (albeit flying P2 as Second Officers) to FO on 3 grand a year. That is the point at which BKS started taking back the one grand. We hardly even felt the repayment and after one year there was a salary review which wiped out the monthly repayment and all was bliss. I think the Hamble and other similar schemes were very good value indeed. One grand, then, representing, roughly, one quarter of costs. Today's stated comparison of twenty grand would make training cost 80,000 quid. I believe it costs a lot more than that today & Mum & Dad are usually funding. Glory days indeed.

[Discorde]

I've tidied up DGAC's images:

BEA Hamble brochure (https://steemrok.com/bea%20combo%20v2.jpg)
BOAC Hamble brochure (https://steemrok.com/hamble%20boac/hambleboacv1)

[flash8]

Fascinating, as is the fact that graduates had a choice of BOAC or BEA... now that surprised me!

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/322x121/screenshot_2019_02_16_20_54_09_010bb5408177d49ca30c78a379224 0f5160913ef.png

[Gordomac]

Flash, you are right. I don't recall having a choice. At stage one interview you were asked who you preferred and why. BOAC and BEA had equal pick of graduates depending on the airline's staffing requirement. The selection procedure was split into three separate visits to the College. Pitching up for part one the night before, at dinner (provided) in the cadets mess, one current cadet joined the table of candidates and during conversation said that he had been "earmarked" for BOAC VC10. No idea if it was true or how the earmarking took place.

I informed my interviewer that I preferred BOAC and when asked why, I further replied that it was the only job where you got free transport from pub to pub. I fell of my chair larfing but on regaining composure, I noticed he looked decidedly unimpressed.