View Full Version : 2 kenya airways e190 collide

10th Feb 2019, 15:18
Not sure why but my last thread seems to have been been removed. Here is a beter link than the one I posted last time


Think it will be more than a few days before back in service

White Knight
10th Feb 2019, 18:16
As smart as the Engineers think they are, they should NOT be at the controls of any aeroplane!!!!!!!!!

I don’t pretend that I can change gaskets or top the oil up on a GP7270E.........

10th Feb 2019, 19:05
As smart as the Engineers think they are, they should NOT be at the controls of any aeroplane!!!!!!!!!
I don’t pretend that I can change gaskets or top the oil up on a GP7270E.........

In my over 40 years of aircraft maintenance experience since 1969, including on wing engine testing (RB211), I have never had the pleasure of a 'Pilot' at the controls. The 1st aircraft I have seen jump chocks during power runs, was a BEA Comet 4 at Heathrow which embedded itself in a hangar door . Sadly Engineers seldom get the chance to experience power runs in a live simulator but then Pilots probable never carry out a full power run with wheels chocked and hand brake set on a live aircraft in the confines of a maintenance base. I have had aircraft move in the later condition but luckily controlled before striking any ground objects. Dry conditions with better designed chocks might have prevented this occurrence in a clear run up area also if the maintenance personnel were taking readings, head down, they might well have not sensed the aircraft movement and been able to pull back power and apply foot brakes in time.

The Bartender
11th Feb 2019, 15:07
As smart as the Engineers think they are, they should NOT be at the controls of any aeroplane!!!!!!!!!

Yeah! Who ever heared of a pilot breaking a plane?? :ugh:

11th Feb 2019, 15:46
As smart as the Engineers think they are, they should NOT be at the controls of any aeroplane!!!!!!!!!

what a ridiculously un-educated response. We're clever enough to keep them serviceable working ridiculously long shifts (No ftls for us minions) at all hours of the night, but not to do egr's. Get real.

11th Feb 2019, 16:19
As smart as the Engineers think they are, they should NOT be at the controls of any aeroplane!!!!!!!!!

Hmm.....Please enlighten us who you currently fly for! I'm sure the Engineers there would be very keen to hear your views and give you the due respect you obviously deserve! :ugh:

hans brinker
11th Feb 2019, 16:24
As smart as the Engineers think they are, they should NOT be at the controls of any aeroplane!!!!!!!!!

I don’t pretend that I can change gaskets or top the oil up on a GP7270E.........

I think as long as they leave the flying part to us it is OK. You think the push-back should be done by a pilot as well?

FE Hoppy
11th Feb 2019, 16:29
Ive only ever seen one aircraft jump a chock.
C130 on startup.
Airframe totalled.
Full crew at the controls.
Ground Engineer on long lead moved faster than the wind.

11th Feb 2019, 21:09
Comet, C-130.....any pics of some of these or other engine runs incidents of the past. Have already seen the Etihad one.

The Bartender
13th Feb 2019, 19:12
Comet, C-130.....any pics of some of these or other engine runs incidents of the past. Have already seen the Etihad one.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x354/img_20190213_205755_155804093afa951b5d26691823104c45bd495819 .jpg
Engine-run, loss of control, aircraft ran over the truck.

Maintenance startup with power-levers firewalled.

Engine-run, lost control.

13th Feb 2019, 19:53
I'd posted the below on a different thread without having seen this one..

KQ stated "Both planes were scheduled to return to service in the next few days hence no disruption to normal operations". To me, this seems like the most backwards, untrue statement there can be! More like.. "they were scheduled to return to service in the next few days, therefore we will likely have to reduce some flight operations, especially as there are other 190s in our fleet that are soon do for a C check".

Full KQ statement here (http://images.pride.kenya-airways.com/Web/KenyaAirways/%7Ba9061764-e7f2-4818-b2aa-c0529066b9ae%7D_STATEMENT__INCIDENT_INVOLVING_TWO_KENYA_AIRW AYS_AIRCRAFT_AT_THE_HANGAR_.pdf)

What would it entail and how long might it take to restore these aircraft to airworthy condition? I don't know really anything at all about this type of damage and situation, but would I be wrong in thinking something like the following?

New engine cowl, new nose, radar assembly, new pylon, and possibly engine flown to Nairobi and installed.
Rest of fuselage repaired in Nairobi to "ferry standard". Is this a thing?
Flown to OGMA (http://www.ogma.pt/index.php?page=home) in Portugal to be brought back to airworthy standard for commercial service. From what I can see, OGMA is owned by Embraer and one of two service centers in the world that can do this level of repair.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x1280/whatsapp_image_2019_02_13_at_21_08_06_2__c0c24e95c709d3ad5f0 946f886ad47131c13e38c.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x1280/whatsapp_image_2019_02_13_at_21_08_06_1__a3df557c3318cfa549d 6ef55fa5f9e1c711072b1.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x960/whatsapp_image_2019_02_13_at_21_08_06_3__215f8fe1f42c544a469 2e61912b7b2dedae92bcd.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x1280/whatsapp_image_2019_02_13_at_21_08_06_5eaf0e1d9a923e6521d348 e24772618613169e87.jpeg

16th Feb 2019, 17:18
Kenya Airways is staring at an operational headache after three of its aircraft were pulled out of service this week, following two separate incidents.

On Tuesday evening, a Boeing Dreamliner 787 enroute to Johannesburg had to make an emergency landing in Dar es Salaam after it developed mechanical problems in mid-air.

Engineers in Nairobi had detected an issue with the aircraft but it was cleared to fly after it was ruled out as a false alarm. In Dar es Salaam, the aircraft blew one of its GEnx engines, putting it out of service.

“The aircraft made an emergency landing in Dar and it was then decided that the flight be cancelled. Passengers were booked into a hotel and flown to Johannesburg the next day via South African Airways,” a source said.


17th Feb 2019, 09:22
Knowing nothing about full power ground engine runs, (I only use full power to get airborne on days when flex power is not sufficient), I am surprised that aircraft being tested statically at full power are not chained or otherwise fixed to hard points in the engine run-up bay.

Relying on loose chocks and brakes and a human’s reactions to chop the power seems a bit dodgy to be honest.

I would have thought that at the very least, some sort of main wheel sized chocks that bolt to the ground would have been used.

Meester proach
17th Feb 2019, 11:29
Ignore the troll tryin it on about engineers. I doubt he/ she is a “ professional pilot “ , as this place is riddled with spotters these days.

I used to do full power engine runs on 757 on the parking brake , shaking like hell they were.
I had to do it because company wouldn’t authorise or train the engineers to taxi them , which I thought was very short sighted

Pilot DAR
17th Feb 2019, 12:46
Just 'cause I looked it up:

Sec. 25.735

(d) Parking brake. The airplane must have a parking brake control that, when selected on, will, without further attention, prevent the airplane from rolling on a dry and level paved runway when the most adverse combination of maximum thrust on one engine and up to maximum ground idle thrust on any, or all, other engine(s) is applied. The control must be suitably located or be adequately protected to prevent inadvertent operation. There must be indication in the cockpit when the parking brake is not fully released.

17th Feb 2019, 14:24
I once was asked to to some ground testing of a 737 that had some issues with the engine anti ice systems.
I’m not a test pilot in any way, so I agreed to taxi the aircraft into posistion and transferred controls to the tech guy who then did the engine run.
I was not going to take the blame for anything going wrong. This was a management by fear airline, so it was important to keep your back clear.

18th Feb 2019, 03:46
I was not going to take the blame for anything going wrong.

Actually, you would have. The fact that you where on board would lay some blame squarely on your shoulders. I doubt you have the authority to “transfer controls” in such a way.

I don’t get involved in maintenance. I sign the tech log, and then I get off. Unless the engineer gives me an aircraft that is released for flight, I turn around and get right off.

As as you say, in today’s world of accountant and lawyer driven management, I have zero interest in putting my lisense on the line for those looking for scapegoats when it all goes pear shaped.

If maintenance needs a plane repo’ed, I can help. But all maintenance will take place after I sign the tech log and get off the aircraft.

18th Feb 2019, 05:38
A couple more incidents here. I remember an A310 in Vancouver that was run into a hangar. Some CB's were pulled during the test run and may have affected the brakes. If anyone has further info, it would be appreciated.

Accident: Air Transat A313 at Rio de Janeiro on Dec 13th 2009, jumps chocks during engine tests and rolls "hunting" (http://avherald.com/h?article=42431c73)


Loose rivets
18th Feb 2019, 21:15
I'm sorry, but there are times when from my armchair, I say, FFS, I could have stopped that happening.

Dead, and never seen the sky.


18th Feb 2019, 21:20
This engine test had a slightly different ending

Taffy Holden's Flight in English Electric Lightning XM135 (http://www.historicracer.com/aviation/accidental-fighter-pilot/)

Loose rivets
18th Feb 2019, 21:49
There are a few similarities to Frank Whittle's attitude to not taking financial advantage, and indeed, the medical problems.

The Lightning plays a part in my novel, and I stood staring at the Duxford aircraft for a very long while. Green with envy for anyone that's flown them - though with the lid on.

19th Feb 2019, 12:41
On the subject of engineers doing full bore ground runs. Back in the day at LGW in the 70's, two of us would fire up a Britannia and taxi it to the west end of the airport via the taxi way for part or full bore ground runs. When finished, we would call the tower for permission to return via the main runway. Permission was eventually granted and told to make our journey quickly. So, Locks dropped, brakes off, inboard advanced to achieve about 60 knots then back to brake dwell or reverse in order to make a sedate return to the stand. Shut down and off to Eddie's for tea!!

happy days

20th Feb 2019, 06:41
We also had this..


Pilot DAR
20th Feb 2019, 07:00
While having respect for both maintainers and pilots, each may approach their operation of the aircraft differently. Generally, if a pilot starts the engines of an aircraft, the pilot's mind has at least the possibility of flying the aircraft in their mind. Thus, by instinct, the pilot may go through a more complete mental process, in checking that the aircraft is actually ready to fly, or at least run. The maintainer is very unlikely to be intending to fly the aircraft when they start it. So their mind, on the maintenance task requiring running the engines, is not thinking to prepare it for flight, so selection of systems for flight may be overlooked, as flight is not intended, even though that system is needed for ground operation (like hydraulics, for brakes and steering). That does not make pilots superior though, they sometimes operate aircraft without thinking enough about maintenance. The pilot might start up, and power away on a loose surface, where a maintainer would be thinking more about FOD - 'cause they'll have to change out the damaged parts!

When I, as a pilot, have taken on a ground run maintenance role, I have arranged to have the aircraft tied off to a ground anchor for ground runs - I don't want to have to worry about brakes holding - unless the maintenance is to check them!

You gotta get your head into the proper mindset before you start.

20th Feb 2019, 07:45
Maybe we should start posting links and pictures of incidents where the pilots were at fault just to level things up a bit. Oh wait that would be very childish and irrelevant.......