View Full Version : How much of being a fighter pilot do you believe is genetic?
quantify
7th Feb 2019, 08:56
This is a honest question, there are various genetic qualities you need:
Super-tasker - only 2.5% of world population are these (They are true multi taskers, not micro managers like most are). This can be improved on to an extent however, a super tasker's brain is wired differently and one cannot train to be a super tasker (naturals), at least not yet. Although there was a F-16 pilot who claimed he struggled with multitasking and had to work harder than most of this other colleagues.
Psychomotor - this can be improved to an extent
Your body structure - short and stubby, not a long neck will sustain high G's (Yes not all fighter pilots are short and stuby, I've met a F-35 test pilot who was quite tall and slim and yes you can make yourself bulk but a short heart to brain distance is advantageous)
Spatial reasoning - slightly genetic, can be improved with training
Certainly I'm not taking anything away from fighter pilots and saying that there is no hard work involved in the career, but it seems there are many genetic gifts you must posses to even get to the training itself. I'm also not saying that fighter pilots are born, I still firmly believe they are made.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
jindabyne
7th Feb 2019, 09:55
Quantify,
You missed out: intelligent, handsome, witty and alcohol tolerant.
Fitter2
7th Feb 2019, 10:00
I suspect the thread starter is a wind-up merchant; if the question is serious then a good starting point would be to see how many fighter pilots are eldest of several children. If position in a family is poorly correlated, then it would imply that genetics are not dominant. (and, Jindabyne, from some of the things I have seen fighter pilots do, I'm not sure intelligent is the correct word)
Delusions of being well-endowed? Wrist big enough to wear an enormous watch?
I think I was a fighter pilot in a previous life. Once, when my instructor cut the power on downwind for 32 and told me to put it down, I cross-controlled, side-slipped, and put it down on 08 just by instinct, not what I had been taught!
Boy did he/we get a telling off on the RT from the CFI who saw it!
And I have always favoured the big watches, I am short and stubby, and have an ego to match the watch
quantify
7th Feb 2019, 10:45
Why would not being the first child effect genetic dependency? I also did read somewhere a very high percentage of fighter pilots are first born.
A short and stubby ego? That's a new one on me! :)
I'll tiptoe in gently and say that the same might apply to ATCOs. You can teach all the basics, SOPs, Rules etc, but it still requires what I would call brain that works happily in 4-dimensions to be able to implement all that. And other factors too. So, yes, I accept the premise of a degree of genetics.
Minnie Burner
7th Feb 2019, 11:01
As soon as I read " a honest question" I thought this bloke is an idiot.........
...........or A idiot.
Hmmm... I was first-born son of a WW2 fighter pilot - but he only got 3 kills!
Homelover
7th Feb 2019, 11:56
Quantify,
You missed out: intelligent, handsome, witty and alcohol tolerant.
You also missed 'Great Dancer'!
NutLoose
7th Feb 2019, 11:58
Short and stubby able to withstand high G loads..... hmmm your average pilot figure :p
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x852/grahampatriciapiccininidezeencol_1547153597gnk84_1280x852_70 7023509303ed17906e236edf7d8368850c7e6e.jpg
https://theculturetrip.com/pacific/australia/articles/meet-graham-the-only-person-to-survive-a-car-crash/
Thud105
7th Feb 2019, 13:35
One thing you should never ask a guy or gal is "are you a pilot?" If they are they'll let you know. If they're not, don't embarrass them.
Wander00
7th Feb 2019, 14:18
I thought "God's gift to women" was in there somewhere
brakedwell
7th Feb 2019, 14:36
Big ego, big ticker, small pricker.
Brian 48nav
7th Feb 2019, 15:10
Quantify,
You missed out: intelligent, handsome, witty and alcohol tolerant.
Jindy - You've just listed the attributes of a Hercules navigator!
Brian 48nav
7th Feb 2019, 15:17
My ex-fighter pilot son is first born, 6'4" and reckoned he was the 'G King' when he was on Jaguars ( 1990-99 ) - big ego and I believe well-hung - I stopped checking when he overtook me at about 12 months old!
Don't know about genetics - when I had a go at a PPL just before taking my 8yr option I was absolutely useless. Perhaps my dearly beloved passed on the FP genes?
He's certainly " God's gift to women " - or so he keeps telling us!
As we used to say in Fighter Command:
big watch - big d..k - pay by cheque.
NutLoose
7th Feb 2019, 15:37
Please be more specific, uncircumcised, you have to be a complete prick.......... :p
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/333x333/gods_gift_to_men__601d4202363cb6808599ea49f916c75b9f9a753b.j pg
F-16GUY
7th Feb 2019, 15:48
This is a honest question, there are various genetic qualities you need:
Super-tasker - only 2.5% of world population are these (They are true multi taskers, not micro managers like most are). This can be improved on to an extent however, a super tasker's brain is wired differently and one cannot train to be a super tasker (naturals), at least not yet. Although there was an F-16 pilot who claimed he struggled with multitasking and had to work harder than most of this other colleagues.
Psychomotor - this can be improved to an extent
Your body structure - short and stubby, not a long neck will sustain high G's (Yes not all fighter pilots are short and stuby, I've met a F-35 test pilot who was quite tall and slim and yes you can make yourself bulk but a short heart to brain distance is advantageous)
Spatial reasoning - slightly genetic, can be improved with training
Certainly I'm not taking anything away from fighter pilots and saying that there is no hard work involved in the career, but it seems there are many genetic gifts you must posses to even get to the training itself. I'm also not saying that fighter pilots are born, I still firmly believe they are made.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
quantify,
The following link is to a thesis by norwegian testpilot "Timber" He was the first norwegian F-35 pilot and F-35 squadron commander. He made a thesis about the shift of skills required in the F-35 cockpit compared to 4th generation jets. Unfortunately most of the text is in norwegian, but the summery is in english. Maybe you can translate the text with google. To sum it up, future F-35 pilots will need better skills in areas like processing wast amount of information and skills like psychomotoric will not be as important as in existing platforms, as the plane is much easier to fly then earlier generations.
https://brage.bibsys.no/xmlui/bitstream/handle/11250/2436208/MA_Harlem_2016.pdf?sequence=5&isAllowed=y (https://brage.bibsys.no/xmlui/bitstream/handle/11250/2436208/MA_Harlem_2016.pdf?sequence=5&isAllowed=y)
Even though it is in norwegian, you might be able to get some useful information by looking at his bibliography. I hope it points you in the right direction.
I hope it will answer some of your questions.
Last but not least, and will all the replies you have got until now from people who didn't tell you they are fighterpilots, this joke comes to mind:
Never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him.....
You can always tell a fighter pilot, but you can't tell him much.
I’m assuming it was all genetic - given how easy it was and how good we were. 😉
It would save a lot of time if you could do a quick blood test and from that weed out all the twin seaters.
brakedwell
7th Feb 2019, 16:27
As we used to say in Fighter Command:
big watch - big d..k - pay by cheque.
Ditto in Transport Command, notably in Singapore!
Tengah Type
7th Feb 2019, 17:16
Orca #21 Love It!! You learn something every day.https://www.pprune.org/images/infopop/icons/icon6.gif
And there was I thinking that all that was required was to be hirsute, have prehensile toes and a fondness for bananas.https://www.pprune.org/images/icons/46.gif
Brian48nav #15
If you add "suave and urbane" you get the VC10 Nav rather than the "Duelling Banjos" Herc Nav.
Pontius Navigator
7th Feb 2019, 17:56
My ex-fighter pilot son is first born, 6'4" and reckoned he was the 'G King' when he was on Jaguars ( 2000-09 ) - big ego and I believe well-hung - I stopped checking when he overtook me at about 12 months old!
Don't know about genetics - when I had a go at a PPL just before taking my 8yr option I was absolutely useless. Perhaps my dearly beloved passed on the FP genes?
He's certainly " God's gift to women " - or so he keeps telling us!
Oh dear, Fighter pilot and Jaguar in the same sentence 😁
langleybaston
7th Feb 2019, 17:58
slight aside ...... the Met Man has to have very thick skin.
charliegolf
7th Feb 2019, 18:21
Oh dear, Fighter pilot and Jaguar in the same sentence 😁
I believe it was widely acknowledged that the ability pecking order was, Harrier, Jaguar, Bucc then Phantom. So Brian is pretty on the money.
CG
finestkind
7th Feb 2019, 19:01
Hack, rack, and zoom, not now a days as its all systems. So a good systems operator (like a good ATC)
Tengah Type
7th Feb 2019, 19:01
Charliegolf Dangerous territory, in this forum, equating mud moving minijet pilots with REAL FIGHTER PILOTS. Watch your six.!
ex-fast-jets
7th Feb 2019, 19:11
TT
Don't understand your comment.
CG has got it absolutely spot on.
I don’t believe it did so in the 50-70s, it was just that Darwin weeded out those that shouldn’t procreate.
Not sure since then, but the retreat from low level and increasing use of data-links, pods and other systems seem to indicate that, as in billionaires and elsewhere the geeks are taking over the world.....
Tengah Type
7th Feb 2019, 19:26
BomberH
Did you never meet a WIWOL ( or BEagle ) who told you what a REAL FIGHTER PILOT was ? It did not involve mud moving, but did involve lots of hand movements in the bar,, while describing various combat manoeuvres.
My ex-fighter pilot son is first born, 6'4" and reckoned he was the 'G King' when he was on Jaguars ( 2000-09 ) - big ego and I believe well-hung - I stopped checking when he overtook me at about 12 months old!
Don't know about genetics - when I had a go at a PPL just before taking my 8yr option I was absolutely useless. Perhaps my dearly beloved passed on the FP genes?
He's certainly " God's gift to women " - or so he keeps telling us!
When I went into CAF, they told me it is not your total height, but your buttocks to knee measurement. They put you into a frame and squeeze your butt and knee together. If they can squeeze (gently) down to 106.4 cm you pass, otherwise you become an ATCO or admin officer. They will not take in any pilots that could not meet the tightest specification. I was about 1 cm short of the limit, and I am only 1.65m tall (5'6" in old money). There was a short-arm inspection which I suppose I passed, but they did not tell me the specification in that area. After that I passed a gruelling week of aircrew selection at CFB Downsview Defence and Civil Medicine Institute, only to be injured in basic officer training and told I could not continue in the CAF. I went back into electronics and had to pay for all my flying after that!
BTW one of my intake made fun of another, who wanted to be a helicopter pilot, saying he would rather m**t**b*te than fly a helicopter. He ended up being a helicopter pilot, and rescued 44 men off a burning oil rig, 2 at a time. Not always the fighter pilots that have the b**ls!
F-16GUY
7th Feb 2019, 19:52
BomberH
Did you never meet a WIWOL ( or BEagle ) who told you what a REAL FIGHTER PILOT was ? It did not involve mud moving, but did involve lots of hand movements in the bar,, while describing various combat manoeuvres.
TT,
Hand movements like in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BzU1sYPjzo
ex-fast-jets
7th Feb 2019, 20:17
Uncertain what BEagle has to do with real Fighter Pilots.........
My QFI at BFT was a WIWOL - excellent chap.
Absolutely nothing against them - they were great in their time.
But life goes on.
I did a bit of Jaguar, but mostly Harrier, plus a bit of USN and USAF, both on exchange, obviously.
I mixed with some pretty good fighter pilots in my time - unsure of their genetics though, to go back to the thread.
But CG is clearly a perceptive and intelligent individual.
BEagle
7th Feb 2019, 20:35
Bit harsh, BomberH? Admittedly I only achieved 619 hrs on fighters (Hunter and F-4), plus another 146 on the Hawk - which is NOT a fighter to my mind. 47 on the Bucc too...
Anyway, you can take the man out of the fighter, but not the fighter out of the man!
I was chatting to an ex-Luftwaffe F-104 mate yesterday - and it wasn't long before the hands were moving!
Phantom Driver
7th Feb 2019, 21:55
You can always tell a fighter pilot, but you can't tell him much.
beat me to it .
Lonewolf_50
7th Feb 2019, 22:01
To answer the OP:
How much of being a fighter pilot do you believe is genetic?
None of it. Had plenty of students in training with quite a bit of talent, or even natural talent, who washed out due to two problems:
1. Inability to learn quickly
2. Failure to work hard.
Had a number of them surprise me by earning the chance to fly jets and succeeding when I wasn't sure if their talent level was up to it. (Good on 'em!)
Caveat: There are some fine potential fighter pilots who never got to fly due to anthropometric* limits (which has to do with "what part of your body will you leave behind you if you have to eject" and "can you reach that switch under 6 gs?")
*Thanks langley, oops!
langleybaston
7th Feb 2019, 22:27
You really don't mean anthropomorphic do you?
Tengah Type
7th Feb 2019, 22:33
F-16GUY #33
Perfection!
quantify
8th Feb 2019, 04:06
To answer the OP:
None of it. Had plenty of students in training with quite a bit of talent, or even natural talent, who washed out due to two problems:
1. Inability to learn quickly
2. Failure to work hard.
Had a number of them surprise me by earning the chance to fly jets and succeeding when I wasn't sure if their talent level was up to it. (Good on 'em!)
Caveat: There are some fine potential fighter pilots who never got to fly due to anthropomorphic limits (which has to do with "what part of your body will you leave behind you if you have to eject" and "can you reach that switch under 6 gs?")
Isn't being able to learn quickly an innate skill as well? Or do you mean more in the sense of being able to objectively look at one's own performance/instructor feedback and able to correct mistakes through determination? Also thank you for a good response.
quantify
8th Feb 2019, 04:12
quantify,
The following link is to a thesis by norwegian testpilot "Timber" He was the first norwegian F-35 pilot and F-35 squadron commander. He made a thesis about the shift of skills required in the F-35 cockpit compared to 4th generation jets. Unfortunately most of the text is in norwegian, but the summery is in english. Maybe you can translate the text with google. To sum it up, future F-35 pilots will need better skills in areas like processing wast amount of information and skills like psychomotoric will not be as important as in existing platforms, as the plane is much easier to fly then earlier generations.
https://brage.bibsys.no/xmlui/bitstream/handle/11250/2436208/MA_Harlem_2016.pdf?sequence=5&isAllowed=y
Even though it is in norwegian, you might be able to get some useful information by looking at his bibliography. I hope it points you in the right direction.
I hope it will answer some of your questions.
Last but not least, and will all the replies you have got until now from people who didn't tell you they are fighterpilots, this joke comes to mind:
Never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him.....
Thanks very much, this is quite interesting, how can one practice the skill of processing vasts amounts of information at once? Does that come to your ability to multi task and maintain elite cognitive control where you are able to allow useful information and ignore useless information on a dime?
MAD Boom
8th Feb 2019, 07:06
If Fighter Pilots really are that good, then they would have been streamed rotary wing in the first place......
F-16GUY
8th Feb 2019, 07:16
Thanks very much, this is quite interesting, how can one practice the skill of processing vasts amounts of information at once? Does that come to your ability to multi task and maintain elite cognitive control where you are able to allow useful information and ignore useless information on a dime?
Not sure if/how it can be practiced, but Timbers thesis is that during pilot selection, this area needs to be favored to ensure that future pilots to be, have the right abilities that the F-35 cockpit requires.
If Fighter Pilots really are that good, then they would have been streamed rotary wing in the first place......
I was!!!!!!
melmothtw
8th Feb 2019, 13:27
Being a helicopter pilot is clearly genetic - just ask the Windsors.
Being a helicopter pilot is clearly genetic - just ask the Windsors.
Philip couldn't fly a helicopter even if it had training wheels!
BVRAAM
8th Feb 2019, 17:18
My ex-fighter pilot son is first born, 6'4" and reckoned he was the 'G King' when he was on Jaguars ( 1990-99 ) - big ego and I believe well-hung - I stopped checking when he overtook me at about 12 months old!
Don't know about genetics - when I had a go at a PPL just before taking my 8yr option I was absolutely useless. Perhaps my dearly beloved passed on the FP genes?
He's certainly " God's gift to women " - or so he keeps telling us!
The Jaguar is a fighter?
I thought the only air combat the Jaguar has seen was when one was shot down by a Phantom! ;)
charliegolf
8th Feb 2019, 17:25
The Jaguar is a fighter?
I thought the only air combat the Jaguar has seen was when one was shot down by a Phantom! ;)
As opposed to the Phantom's laudable record being that the only air combat it saw (RAF) was in oopsing it's own side! 101.:ok:
CG
Damn ... the shops are shut and I'm right out of popcorn. :)
I’m pretty sure that a Jaguar hoofed off an AIM-9 at a surface target in GW1...not that this should be taken as a demonstration that the frustrated mud driver wanted to be a fighter pilot.
Lonewolf_50
8th Feb 2019, 21:30
You really don't mean anthropomorphic do you?
oops, corrected. :O
Isn't being able to learn quickly an innate skill as well?
Combination of "nature and nurture" according to the av psychologist types I worked with. Claiming it is only "innate" is a post hoc kind of opinion (again, based on what those folks taught me). The other point you make is true for any flying training, and is a good one: being teachable and being open to learn.
And sometimes, one discovers mid to late in training that they've hit the ceiling, or have hit a plateau.
If the Air Forces and Navies of the world had a better way to drop in the old dip stick and figure out whose aptitude matched the needed traits best, they'd be using it. There is a lot of screening that goes on, but the final test is on task as the demands increase.
I was!!!!!! So was I.
Philip couldn't fly a helicopter even if it had training wheels! Don't be so sure. A pilot I respected greatly was on the Queen's Flight. Sadly he is no longer with us, but at the commemoration service, a Gp Capt was there, representing the Duke. Neither he nor the Duke suffered fools gladly, so I wouldn't be surprised if Phillip is a pretty good rotary driver, within the constraints of his official duties.
ACW599
9th Feb 2019, 07:00
Is anybody aware of any good research on correlation factors that may affect early aptitude assessment?
In his 1981 book 'On the Psychology of Military Incompetence' Normal Dixon mentioned the Defence Mechanism Test used by the Swedish Air Force, supposedly as a test for castration anxiety. The psychoanalytic argument seems to be that fast-jet pilots are compensating for this by wishing to fly fast, powerful and agile aircraft.
Further research by the University of Stockholm in 2002 reported that "...rather than capturing psychodynamic defence mechanisms, our results suggest that the DMT taps perceptual or information-processing difficulties in correct identification of brief stimulus exposures regardless of their emotional contents".
I don't know whether any subsequent work along these lines has been done. From a Jungian perspective, presumably military pilots as a breed are selected as stable extraverts.
golder
9th Feb 2019, 07:04
They say the traits of a high functioning Asperger's, make a good fighter pilot. OCD's for controllers.
quantify
9th Feb 2019, 07:16
And sometimes, one discovers mid to late in training that they've hit the ceiling, or have hit a plateau.
That means there's no way for that individual to further learn and improve? How and why do you think this is, due to mental stress deterring performance or "not having the right stuff"?
Pontius
9th Feb 2019, 07:18
Bit harsh, BomberH?
You great Jess. "A bit harsh"!!
A proper fighter pilot would have smacked him in the nose and continued drinking the 10th of his 18 pints of that happy hour.
Mind you, you were Crab Air, so I suppose allowances have to be made :}
If the Air Forces and Navies of the world had a better way to drop in the old dip stick and figure out whose aptitude matched the needed traits best, they'd be using it. To take it a step further, there is a big difference between being a good pilot flying a fighter in oeacetime and a good fighter pilot in war. The difference between those, who when the bullets started to fly, became one of the few hawks amongst the many pigeons.
And I believe post-analysis showed many of the former to, in many cases, having been rated as average or below prior to combat having commenced.
E.g.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Warburtons-War-Maverick-Adrian-Warburton/dp/0907579434
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-i/the-red-barons-other-planes-yes-he-had-more-than-just-one-fokker.html
Wander00
9th Feb 2019, 08:54
A passing thought, anyone studied whether the proportion of left handedness is higher than normal amongst fighter pilots. In the 80s when I was at Neatishead I discussed the preponderance of left handedness amongst fighter controllers with Aunty Joan. Nothing scientific you understand, just seemed to be quite a lot of them.
The ‘handedness’ debate is interesting. Before my first hop at Valley my primary asked if I was left handed, as he was - and anecdotally so were a high proportion of his force (Harrier) at the time.
I’ve never bothered finding out if the anecdotal evidence was in anyway accurate.
As a right hander I think I worried about it for a good second or two.
quantify
10th Feb 2019, 00:36
The ‘handedness’ debate is interesting. Before my first hop at Valley my primary asked if I was left handed, as he was - and anecdotally so were a high proportion of his force (Harrier) at the time.
I’ve never bothered finding out if the anecdotal evidence was in anyway accurate.
As a right hander I think I worried about it for a good second or two.
that's pretty interesting, there needs to be more research on fighter pilots in general tbh.
Brian 48nav
10th Feb 2019, 13:41
Oh dear, Fighter pilot and Jaguar in the same sentence 😁
Had a word with the Off-spring yesterday, and he said ' Tell PN bloody cheek - Didn't you mention all my hours on Mirage 2000 and Gripen?' These ex-single seat guys can be a bit sensitive if they suspect a nav' is taking the p1ss!
langleybaston
10th Feb 2019, 16:50
Handedness can be a disadvantage. Chief Forecasters at Bracknell CFO who were left handed were very unpopular because their work position was to the right of the Deputy and they perforce had to analyse, annotate and scribble on one chart. The ideal [I never saw it] was right hand Chief, Left hand Indian. Nobody had the whit to change seats.
Not to mention the totally colour blind chief, who, faced with colours red, blue and purple for fronts etc, routinely marked his crayons thus, only to have them b*ggered by a colleague with wrong labels.
As if the job were not impossible for lesser mortals anyway.
Pontius Navigator
10th Feb 2019, 17:01
Had a word with the Off-spring yesterday, and he said ' Tell PN bloody cheek - Didn't you mention all my hours on Mirage 2000 and Gripen?' These ex-single seat guys can be a bit sensitive if they suspect a nav' is taking the p1ss!
i stand by the facts. Sticking a 'winder on a Jag or Harrier does not a fighter make..
"Mommy, when I grow up, I want to be a fighter pilot."
"You're going to have to make a choice son ... you can't do both"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contrary to popular opinion, the average fighter pilot is actually capable of feelings such as love, caring, tenderness and sharing. It's just that these feelings don't include anyone else :p
Lonewolf_50
10th Feb 2019, 19:45
That means there's no way for that individual to further learn and improve? How and why do you think this is, due to mental stress deterring performance or "not having the right stuff"? I think that you might be forgetting the tax payer in this equation. If you can't learn it in the amount of time (to include the extra time flights when one hits a hicccup) then the tax payer is not required to indulge anyone in their dream of being a fast jet pilot. Each nation and each service has a methodology on identifying weak points and finding out if they are a temporary set back or a case of "can't handle further difficulty." This has all been learned the hard way: In Blood.
CoodaShooda
10th Feb 2019, 20:52
As the father of a fighter pilot, I was going to say that genetics are unlikely to be an issue. :(
Then I reflected on his brother and sister's performances in the FA18 sim without prior flying experience and how his daughter gained her first sim-Mig kill at the age of five, compared with my PPL inspired sim disasters.
I am am forced to conclude that genetics could be involved but, in my case, it was recessive. :{
quantify
11th Feb 2019, 22:09
I think that you might be forgetting the tax payer in this equation. If you can't learn it in the amount of time (to include the extra time flights when one hits a hicccup) then the tax payer is not required to indulge anyone in their dream of being a fast jet pilot. Each nation and each service has a methodology on identifying weak points and finding out if they are a temporary set back or a case of "can't handle further difficulty." This has all been learned the hard way: In Blood.
Very true, imagine getting up to that stage and finding out you just can't handle anymore, would be quite frustrating.
quantify
11th Feb 2019, 22:10
As the father of a fighter pilot, I was going to say that genetics are unlikely to be an issue. :(
Then I reflected on his brother and sister's performances in the FA18 sim without prior flying experience and how his daughter gained her first sim-Mig kill at the age of five, compared with my PPL inspired sim disasters.
I am am forced to conclude that genetics could be involved but, in my case, it was recessive. :{
Wow, thanks for the insight, you must be a very proud father :)
LowObservable
11th Feb 2019, 23:41
Back when G-Loc was both lethal and a bit of a mystery, I recall someone remarking that the ideal fighter pilot was a short female with large glutes, who smoked and grunted a lot.
Herod
12th Feb 2019, 07:56
there needs to be more research on fighter pilots in general
I think I might know a couple of young ladies who would be happy to oblige ;)
A_Van
12th Feb 2019, 09:49
IMHO, ORAC made a wise comment above under post #58.
In critical situations, with extreme motivation and tonns of perspiration those who may not be genetically ideal may be the best of the best.
IIRC, the average age of the British pilots ("The Few") who defended the country against "Goering aces" in 1940 was about 20. And I assume there was no thorough and timely psycho-medical selection at that time. But they won.
Even in sport, where genetics really matters, there are many examples of that kind. E.g., there is African dominance in medium and long-distance running now. Looks understandable taking into account the anthropometry of Ethiopian and Kenyan guys (thin like sticks, etc). But interesting that only 3 or 4 outperformed British Seb Coe during last 35+ years since he set his fantastic record on 800 m back in early 80's. Or Russian Vladimir Kutz in 50's - he looked more like a boxer or power lifter, but thanks to outstanding training finally became a world and Olympic champ.
NutLoose
12th Feb 2019, 10:02
So was I.
Don't be so sure. A pilot I respected greatly was on the Queen's Flight. Sadly he is no longer with us, but at the commemoration service, a Gp Capt was there, representing the Duke. Neither he nor the Duke suffered fools gladly, so I wouldn't be surprised if Phillip is a pretty good rotary driver, within the constraints of his official duties.
Well at least in a Landrover :)