SCMP 2 Feb 2019

[Air Profit]

This management truly are tone deaf. The very day after their resounding defeat, the inevitable article in the SCMP basically insisting that we "turned down an offer of improved conditions", and that we are also "the only group who has not contributed to cost savings". RH, you keep digging that hole just a little bit deeper. All the encouragement needed to accept that offer from my next employer. Moron.

[Ben revoD]

Yes indeed, just as you would expect from the company.

The real issue is that there is no press release from us explaining why we rejected this pathetic offer, and rebutting the CX spin. Why wasn’t such a release drafted and ready to go? Oh that’s right, our chairman and GC are in agreement with CX on this. So the AOA should just add +1 to whatever CX spout.

[hyg]

This management truly are tone deaf. The very day after their resounding defeat, the inevitable article in the SCMP basically insisting that we "turned down an offer of improved conditions", and that we are also "the only group who has not contributed to cost savings". RH, you keep digging that hole just a little bit deeper. All the encouragement needed to accept that offer from my next employer. Moron.

that bit about not contributing made me sick.... 1. everyone's working harder under CMP.....2. around 15% of payrise shortfall compare to the rest of the company in the last decade.... 3. removal of expat housing ....4. i think they don't even pay those new joiners that 'bonus/loan' anymore.... and the list goes on......so what do they want us to contribute now, should everyone just vote YES to working for free??

[kenfoggo]

It is almost unbelievable.
The Company put out a press release that states that the aircrew do not contribute!
There can be no agreement with the Management while they continue such a campaign against their own staff.

[RAT Management]

Doesn't us rejecting the pay offer inadvertently contribute to cost savings?

[Amber Vibes]

What a load of deceitful, disingenuous drivel. How about the fact that the pilot group has been subsidizing CX with the following:

- No cost of living, inflation adjusted payrise for what, at least a decade?
- Medical care that is so pared down that it is scraping the bottom of the Hong Kong medical barrel.
- Their paltry and unsustainable Hong Kong Pilot's Allowance for locally employed pilots.
- The capricious and arbitrary non-payment of the annual 13th month bonus (while every other labor group received it).
- The unilateral changes to the rostering policies that are detrimental to the pilot group's quality of life and bottom line.

And yet, they can make these outrageous public declarations that are blatant lies and they go unanswered.

Why the hell doesn't the Union have an established public information program to educate the public. The only thing CX seems to be competent at is spin and optics. You guys should have been leading from the front on this from the outset. How about taking some of those war chest levies and using them to hire a public information officer?

[Starbear]

Yes indeed, just as you would expect from the company.

The real issue is that there is no press release from us explaining why we rejected this pathetic offer, and rebutting the CX spin. Why wasn’t such a release drafted and ready to go? Oh that’s right, our chairman and GC are in agreement with CX on this. So the AOA should just add +1 to whatever CX spout.


You have it absolutely correct in your first sentence. Unions are notoriously poor in the PR area in general.

[Roy De Kantzow]

You have it absolutely correct in your first sentence. Unions are notoriously poor in the PR area in general.The HKAOA are notoriously poor at PR.

Why not have a pre-prepared press statement for either outcome?

It's not rocket science. It doesn't need to be inflammatory, simply a factual letter stating the facts from the AOA perspective. It isn't surprising that the SCMP writes in this way though - the work ethic in Hong Kong is set up to protect the employer.

[unitedabx]

The HKAOA are notoriously poor at PR.

Why not have a pre-prepared press statement for either outcome?

It's not rocket science. It doesn't need to be inflammatory, simply a factual letter stating the facts from the AOA perspective. It isn't surprising that the SCMP writes in this way though - the work ethic in Hong Kong is set up to protect the employer.

For this you need leadership. The union hasn't had that for 2 years. Time for the GC and DS to resign. Letters by Monday morning please or you'll all be kicked out by lunchtime.

[propje]

For this you need leadership. The union hasn't had that for 2 years. Time for the GC and DS to resign. Letters by Monday morning please or you'll all be kicked out by lunchtime.

Instead of posting on pprune why not take out half a page at the scmp and tell the public how you as a pilot group contribute and everyone else at cx got a payrise recently

[The Bullwinkle]

Is there likely to be any strike action because of this?
Just planning a trip to Europe and getting a little concerned that flights might get cancelled!

[Betsy]

Is there likely to be any strike action because of this?
Just planning a trip to Europe and getting a little concerned that flights might get cancelled!
No we don't strike. But you can expect a sharp rise in sickness rate similar to what happened 3 years ago that made a certain Ex DFO's armpits sweat in the middle of winter. That's right, it was during the post CNY rush.

[The Bullwinkle]

That's right, it was during the post CNY rush.

And Chinese New Year is in two days time so basically, I won’t plan any trip for the next couple of weeks at least! 👍

[unitedabx]

It is almost unbelievable.
The Company put out a press release that states that the aircrew do not contribute!
There can be no agreement with the Management while they continue such a campaign against their own staff.


So all the nice platitudes from the GMA evaporate within hours of the NO vote. Typical but totally predictable. Now maybe the 435 who voted yes will see the error of their ways and next time a 100% outcome will be assured. Bottom line " you can't believe a word this company says".

[TheGreenDragon]

They all want to be from the Michael O’leary school of management. Why be angry, its just a game. No one likes Swire as employers , only the gullable or naive.

Be glad you not in KA, seems an initial offer of ZERO percent may well be put to the membership, with a 3 % raise to HDP. Thats around a HK $500month increase for most captains. Pathetic.

[unitedabx]

They all want to be from the Michael O’leary school of management. Why be angry, its just a game. No one likes Swire as employers , only the gullable or naive.

Be glad you not in KA, seems an initial offer of ZERO percent may well be put to the membership, with a 3 % raise to HDP. Thats around a HK $500month increase for most captains. Pathetic.




Rumour has it DPA has suggested the members accept. They haven't the stomach for a fight.

[mngmt mole]

hmmm,...considering the recent vote by the CX pilots, it would be the perfect time for the DPA pilots to pile on and insist on proper contract terms. I doubt CX management could handle a civil war on two fronts. Why on earth any GC would recommend "0" percent is beyond me (oh...wait...not much different than our feckless GC). Seriously everyone, it's time to stop accepting abuse, disrespect and constant career erosion from this toxic management. Proper contract increases in pay and benefits, or you can find your operation grinding to a virtual halt with a TB and CC. Not that difficult.

[Air Profit]

On a personal note, the fact that the CEO willingly allowed an article in the SCMP the very day after the vote, blaming the pilots (and distorting the truth) means that regardless of any settlement between company and union, I am a CC'er for life. That is what 20+ years of abuse brings you. On a personal note to RH, perhaps you can pick up last weeks edition of Flight International. At the back there is an obituary to Herb Kelleher, the much missed CEO of Southwest Airlines. The qualities and philosophy of that man are the complete antithesis of what our CEO(s) represent, and for that reason they are all small, forgettable human beings in comparison to a man who truly cared and looked after his employees. RIP Herb.

[cykzstudent]

Rumour has it DPA has suggested the members accept. They haven't the stomach for a fight.

I’m DPA and haven’t heard anything to that effect.

[KABOY]

This is the same individual who in September stated the DPA were briefed about COS18 prior to its rollout. Just another troll, trying to inflame....

Keep up with the false accusations and it might backfire.

[boocs]

Rumour has it DPA has suggested the members accept. They haven't the stomach for a fight.

That is not the case. Wrong!
b.

[unitedabx]

That is not the case. Wrong!
b.

Really. Are you telling me that last Thursday the DPA didn't receive a letter from management saying "their starting point was a 0% pay increase ( what they called "a stabilized adjustment " ) and that if accepted then current allowances would be protected for 12 months pending a company wide review in 2021.Tell me that letter didn't arrive in the DPA inbox and the initial reaction of the GC was to accept it. Tell me ?

[TheGreenDragon]

The part about DPA members not having the stomach for a fight is true. The membership has been diluted by standard contract pilots who have a different motivation and are from a much varied demographic than B scale members. They are generally 20 years younger, and are not in HK because it pays a good whack. They are socially more integrated to local culture and are accepting of their terms and conditions. Small living spaces and taking the bus for an hour to work are considered as normal. Its hard to equate the desires of B and C scale , so to remain neutral will be the most palatable from the DPA comm

[Babbalito]

The part about DPA members not having the stomach for a fight is true. The membership has been diluted by standard contract pilots who have a different motivation and are from a much varied demographic than B scale members. They are generally 20 years younger, and are not in HK because it pays a good whack. They are socially more integrated to local culture and are accepting of their terms and conditions. Small living spaces and taking the bus for an hour to work are considered as normal. Its hard to equate the desires of B and C scale , so to remain neutral will be the most palatable from the DPA comm
I tend to disagree. There are plenty of SC pilots who are tired of subsidizing expat B pilots while the latter continue to f##k over the former. A fairer way forward would be for expat B to take an overall freeze in pay and financial benefits allowing all increases to go to SC. Lest we forget: expat B package is worth a lot more (40%?) and they get more leave. And now the shame of CoS 18 is upon us all.

[bacou]

Babbalito, apologies for not understanding your post. Can you tell me in what way Expat B are “f# #king over the SC?
If we joined on a different contract, blame the Airline management, not your co-workers; Lots of jobs around, if you don’t like what you get here move somewhere else.

[flyhardmo]

A fairer way forward would be for expat B to take an overall freeze in pay and financial benefits allowing all increases to go to SC.

A fairer way would be if you didn’t sign an inferior contract undercutting your peers then trying to get them to subsidize your poor decisions. Fairly soon POS18 Pilot’s will demand that SC guys subsidize their contracts. How would you feel about that?

[Oasis]

I’m b scale but I never felt ffed over by the a scale, although it was always funny when they would open their little mini photo album and show off their cars, planes, houses..
You get what you signed up for...

[giggerty]

Give the DPA a chance. The com have only just agreed a framework for negotiations. No one has suggested anyone accept anything. Negotiate haven’t even started yet. The bull**** flies thick and fast on this site sometimes.

Bab. How about you freeze your contract until the cos 18 guys get to your level and then you can talk to the B scalers about doing the same? Or, here’s a novel thought, why not stop criticising your colleagues and instead try and work together to lift all contracts? Just an idea

[Roy De Kantzow]

A fairer way would be if you didn’t sign an inferior contract undercutting your peers then trying to get them to subsidize your poor decisions.


This is a stupid view point.

You're expecting a pilot who may be unemployed or looking to further their career to not sign a contract in order to protect someone [you] they don't know?

How about you try and protect your contract and prevent the inferior contract becoming available in the first place?

This view point is symptomatic of a weak bodied pilot community who always want to pass the buck. Same goes for the argument of relying on others leaving a company in order to force the company to improve terms.

I'd say if a contract is available then it's fair game...

[flyhardmo]

This is a stupid view point.

You're expecting a pilot who may be unemployed or looking to further their career to not sign a contract in order to protect someone [you] they don't know?

How about you try and protect your contract and prevent the inferior contract becoming available in the first place?

This view point is symptomatic of a weak bodied pilot community who always want to pass the buck. Same goes for the argument of relying on others leaving a company in order to force the company to improve terms.

I'd say if a contract is available then it's fair game...

i am doing my bit to protect my contract. Unfortunately relying on others is the reason I can’t protect or improve the contract for the current and future generation of pilots. I have no gripe if someone signs a lesser contract, but don’t come and preach to me that we need to rob Peter to pay Paul when the information about the inferior contract you signed was available before you signed.

[mr did]

There are plenty of SC pilots who are tired of subsidizing expat B pilots while the latter continue to f##k over the former. A fairer way forward would be for expat B to take an overall freeze in pay and financial benefits allowing all increases to go to SC.

The fishing would appear to be good, plenty of bites.