L3 full time course March start date

[Newbie103]

Hi all ,

starting intergated course at L3 I start my ATPL exams at Coventry Airport 11th March anyone else ?

Be good to hear from you.

Cheer Rebecca

[pmct]

Good luck.. however go into L3 eyes wide open. Crazy long delays at the moment and lots of disruption to the programme.

Are delays still “up to 6 months” as mentioned on other threads or are they getting worse? I’m due to be starting a tagged MPL course but this is making me reconsider modular training.

[tolip1]

Are delays still “up to 6 months” as mentioned on other threads or are they getting worse? I’m due to be starting a tagged MPL course but this is making me reconsider modular training.
Don't give up the tagging, especially if it's brightly coloured. You won't feel the worst of the effects of delays and L3 are required to push you through.

All at the expense of your whitetail colleagues.

Good luck!

[Plain1]

Good luck.. however go into L3 eyes wide open. Crazy long delays at the moment and lots of disruption to the programme.

Can you define long delays please?

Do you mean delays from application to actually starting the programme.
or
Once you've come out the other end with your (tagged or frozen) ATPL, a delay to finding your first FO role? (or even getting type approval)


Thanks :)

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Are delays still “up to 6 months” as mentioned on other threads or are they getting worse? I’m due to be starting a tagged MPL course but this is making me reconsider modular training.

“Up to 6 months” is misleading in my opinion. The fact of the matter is, large delays are affecting everyone across the board. This has had a knock on affect on morale, and plays havoc with personal financial planning. Airline tagged schemes do fare better, but expect disruption. If i had a “Whitetail” course start date i would thoroughly reasarech the current situation at L3 before committing.

[CaptainPugwash12]

Hi there, I know several people currently with L3.

There are dozens and dozens of people delayed, some have been delayed more than one year between ground school and flying, some grounded after only a few hrs of flying or getting solo to make way for other people on airline schemes as they are individually sponsored. Students have been messed around and some have spoken to solicitors etc but your in a rock and a hard place.

They pay 'compensation' of something like £25 a week if your delayed for 3 months £30 for 6 months and £75 a week for 9 months plus or thereabouts. Lots of students bored and some asked to start paying back bonds when they havent finished flying.....if they dont the flying will stop. Mad!

My view would be do you exams at BGS or even an in house place in 6 months, do some hr building at home and have fun doing it in your own time at a flying club (NOT a commercial school) then head to Europe on a CPL MEIR course. It will cost less than half of integrated and probably a third of the time and u will get before other people have finished their training.

[Plain1]

Hi there, I know several people currently with L3.

There are dozens and dozens of people delayed, some have been delayed more than one year between ground school and flying, some grounded after only a few hrs of flying or getting solo to make way for other people on airline schemes as they are individually sponsored. Students have been messed around and some have spoken to solicitors etc but your in a rock and a hard place.

They pay 'compensation' of something like £25 a week if your delayed for 3 months £30 for 6 months and £75 a week for 9 months plus or thereabouts. Lots of students bored and some asked to start paying back bonds when they havent finished flying.....if they dont the flying will stop. Mad!

My view would be do you exams at BGS or even an in house place in 6 months, do some hr building at home and have fun doing it in your own time at a flying club (NOT a commercial school) then head to Europe on a CPL MEIR course. It will cost less than half of integrated and probably a third of the time and u will get before other people have finished their training.

Maybe a slightly rude question, but those people who are delayed. Is this because L3 believe they wont complete their training successfully and they are trying to subtly move them out?

[CaptainPugwash12]

No the majority are self funded and the main chap I know had average of 98% ground school results and already had a PPL so more than competent, he just didnt pass the selection for the tagged scheme.

Many reasons including greed, they had a commercial fallout with one of the schools I think it was Arizona so they have a reduced capacity and there is a lack of aircraft but plenty of accommodation......, some have been shifted to Norway, some back to Bournemouth and others NZ and some a mix of both. They totally lack integrity they are selling courses still which they know they cannot provide but people are willing to pay. Its the same for Aeros, they have very limited capacity and all of the decent instructors left due to non payment but regardless of modular/integrated once they have some money from you its hard to leave....

Estimates I have heard it will take them between 1-2 years to get rid of the backlog, so I would stay clear of them for a year AT LEAST. If you can afford that kind of money over 100,000 go to a school then find a school that you can put it on a credit card so if any issues you are covered by consumer rights.

If you are really considering them or any school, use facebook, pprune, someone you know who is there or just left and can tell you how it is over a coffee one to one. IGNORE all marketing material and sales days/fairs at T5, total rubbish!!!

Alot of people dont realise it but the best training schools are NOT in the UK but in Europe where they have a different culture and are there to help rather and teach you than hinder and take as much money off you as possible.

[KayPam]

Maybe a slightly rude question, but those people who are delayed. Is this because L3 believe they wont complete their training successfully and they are trying to subtly move them out?
Not at all.
L3 biggest client is Air France, because this airline pays directly for a whole bunch of cadets.
Easyjet is also a big provider but does not pay directly L3 so they are not really a client. Just a concerned third party.
Anyway, all these tagged cadets (whether self sponsored or airline sponsored) will have less delay than whitetails.
Tagged cadets will go in front of whitetails. Because there is a huge pressure from the airline. There is very probably a penalty if L3 is late in delivering an airline cadet. And we're not talking 35£ per week. Rather 35£ per hour.

[Plain1]

...

Estimates I have heard it will take them between 1-2 years to get rid of the backlog, so I would stay clear of them for a year AT LEAST. If you can afford that kind of money over 100,000 go to a school then find a school that you can put it on a credit card so if any issues you are covered by consumer rights.

If you are really considering them or any school, use facebook, pprune, someone you know who is there or just left and can tell you how it is over a coffee one to one. IGNORE all marketing material and sales days/fairs at T5, total rubbish!!!

Alot of people dont realise it but the best training schools are NOT in the UK but in Europe where they have a different culture and are there to help rather and teach you than hinder and take as much money off you as possible.

That's worrying! I was hoping to go through their selection process and start training sometime this year! Most probably as a White Tail since I didn't get onto the EZY scheme late 2017. And they aren't currently offering any programmes with UK based airlines

I did consider training abroad, but I can't speak any other languages to a level that I think you'd need for such a technical profession. I can get by in French and German in terms of being a tourist, but I'm far from fluent in either. Would you care to mention other schools you would consider over L3?

Not at all.
L3 biggest client is Air France, because this airline pays directly for a whole bunch of cadets.
Easyjet is also a big provider but does not pay directly L3 so they are not really a client. Just a concerned third party.
Anyway, all these tagged cadets (whether self sponsored or airline sponsored) will have less delay than whitetails.
Tagged cadets will go in front of whitetails. Because there is a huge pressure from the airline. There is very probably a penalty if L3 is late in delivering an airline cadet. And we're not talking 35£ per week. Rather 35£ per hour.

That was a concern of mine, that White Tails would always be treated as second class candidates to anyone tagged or on a scheme. As we've seen with Pilot George he has had a significant wait between his fATPL completion and EZY Type Rating

[CaptainPugwash12]

Yes, that is most definitely true white tail and self sponsored are more like 3rd class citizens as they know they have you by the balls!

English is the language of aviation, if you are going to train and do your CPLMEIR you would do it in the Nordics, Germany, Holland where English is particularly good, a few reports that Poland instructors English is poor but a few phone calls and a visit there should be part of your due diligence.

[Plain1]

English is the language of aviation, if you are going to train and do your CPLMEIR you would do it in the Nordics, Germany, Holland where English is particularly good, a few reports that Poland instructors English is poor but a few phone calls and a visit there should be part of your due diligence.

Thanks, I worried that the classroom sections would not be in English. Certainly Munich Flight appear to offer their ATPL in English and German variants.

From Googling it appears that the top 2 EU based firms are

FTE Jerez (who it appears include full board on their integrated ATPL, which is another good point)
Munich Flight Academy

And in terms of UK . Its basically between L3 and CAE. The former have peaked my interest since I went through them for EZY and they've recently been building a new site which is closer to my home. (presumably to increase capacity) So it makes it much more attractive in terms of costs.

Last question, since I feel like I've badgered you enough (apologies)

Is there a thread on this site listing all the current training providers? So that I can go and do some research on all of them to help narrow down options

[gbotley]

As we've seen with Pilot George he has had a significant wait between his fATPL completion and EZY Type Rating

Just to add my two cents, my wait was nothing to do with the fact I was whitetail. The type rating wait was actually due to easyJet's specific requirement for French speakers for French bases. The majority of type rating courses between August and my start date in December were either easyJet ATPL cadets coming through the system who were pre-planned on that type rating course right back from their courses inception, or French speaking Whitetail cadets. This specific French speaking requirement has since ceased and the wait time from airline offer to type rating is now about two weeks in the case of my peers.

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Not at all.
L3 biggest client is Air France, because this airline pays directly for a whole bunch of cadets.
Easyjet is also a big provider but does not pay directly L3 so they are not really a client. Just a concerned third party.
Anyway, all these tagged cadets (whether self sponsored or airline sponsored) will have less delay than whitetails.
Tagged cadets will go in front of whitetails. Because there is a huge pressure from the airline. There is very probably a penalty if L3 is late in delivering an airline cadet. And we're not talking 35£ per week. Rather 35£ per hour.

Unless you work in the finance department at L3 CTS you dont know what EZY pay L3 for each cadet that they source. L3 when you boil it down are acting as a recruitment agency, and that costs money whatever industry you are in. Don’t forget the “Security Bond” is “Transferred” to the airline, and all the interest goes elsewhere over those 7 years that it is repaid. The airline will also save on the difference in NI contributions / taxes / pension contributions because your salary is reduced and then topped up by the bond payments. Its safe to say that easyjet have a significant financial interest in each and every cadet.

Right now there are cadets in L3 with HK Airlines, Jeststar Asia, Royal Bruni, Virgin, IndiGo, easyJet, BA, the L3 instructor course, Singapore Airlines, Air France, Oman Air and probably a few more. Each airline has a financial interest in each cadet and each airline will be affected by the delays in some way. It is understandable why the White tail courses get larger delays than the airline courses.

[KayPam]

Just to add my two cents, my wait was nothing to do with the fact I was whitetail. The type rating wait was actually due to easyJet's specific requirement for French speakers for French bases. The majority of type rating courses between August and my start date in December were either easyJet ATPL cadets coming through the system who were pre-planned on that type rating course right back from their courses inception, or French speaking Whitetail cadets. This specific French speaking requirement has since ceased and the wait time from airline offer to type rating is now about two weeks in the case of my peers.
Whitetails cadets are currently facing 6 months delays.
Some cadets even had begun their VFR flight training and have been sent home for 6 months.

[sethgecko]

Pending the outcome of my CLASS 1 I am due to start at L3 in the next few months and this news is very worrying.

[EZYJLL]

Hi everyone,

Came across your thread and thought I would put some things into perspective. I'm currently on the EZY MPL program, and have finished groundschool.

In all honesty, I think L3 can't be slated for the delays itself. I have friends currently studying with CAE who have been affected in exactly the same way, but many just seem to focus on it being just L3. It is not an isolated issue.

Not much can be disclosed, but L3 have got a structure currently in place to now help minimise said delays, whether aircraft, instructors or looking at our training locations.

We have Norway, Abu Dhabi, New Zealand, Bournemouth and more.

The thing to bear in mind, I will hold my hands up, is that those right now experiencing delays will be facing the worse of it. But don't forget, groundschool is 6months! In 6 months time, this would be under control again. So as it stands, yes, there are delays. But in 6months time, I think their impact on yourselves would be minimal.

In terms of easyJet, they are invested in our progress. All airlines are having meetings to see how the delays can be resolved, but they are understanding of it!

I studied at Coventry for groundschool, Rachel. It's a brilliant centre. It may not look like much compared to Southampton (as no sims), but the instructors here are second to none. Plus, we had windows! Happy I got Coventry.

All I'll say is, take what you hear with a pinch of salt sometimes. I'm not saying that everyone else is wrong, please don't think that for a minute. Yes, there are issues like delays. Maybe, some people may view modular as a good option? My personal view is post 29th March, and towards the end of your time in groundschool, things should be back on track.

Any questions, feel free to message.


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[sethgecko]

Hi EZYJLL thank you for the update and congratulations on completing ground school!

I will also be joining the EZY MPL programme once (hopefully) I have my Class 1!

May I ask if there were any factors that led to you being assigned to Coventry? were you grouped together with the rest of the EZY MPL candidates? Also is NZ still the preferred location for EZY MPL candidates (I read somewhere it was a preference by EZY for candidates to train there) or have you been allocated a different location?

[tolip1]

Hi EZYJLL thank you for the update and congratulations on completing ground school!

I will also be joining the EZY MPL programme once (hopefully) I have my Class 1!

May I ask if there were any factors that led to you being assigned to Coventry? were you grouped together with the rest of the EZY MPL candidates? Also is NZ still the preferred location for EZY MPL candidates (I read somewhere it was a preference by EZY for candidates to train there) or have you been allocated a different location?

Coventry and Southampton just alternate every two weeks with the new class starts. Ie a new class starts at each every month. Also every period (don't know how long) a class starts ground school in New Zealand.

Up until recently, all MPL flying was done in New Zealand as that's where the MPL qualified instructors are. That's changed, and it's now possible to do MPL in Bournemouth too.

The prevailing opinions are that it's best to do ground school in Coventry, as the surroundings are pleasant with loads of vintage aircraft in the garden. Also there are windows. New Zealand is bad for GS due to increased price of living while you have zero time to enjoy the country.

NZ is obviously best for flying training, it's the holiday of a lifetime. Bournemouth is a terrible deal in comparison.

[SAPEG3T]

[QUOTE=tolip1;10405129] New Zealand is bad for GS due to increased price of living while you have zero time to enjoy the country.

I may add that saying NZ for GS is bad is categorically wrong. Having done GS in NZ I can tell you that the base has the highest exam average out of the three bases. We had opportunities to backseat flights during groundschool, rather than being locked away in some industrial unit in the UK. Admittedly though it is more expensive to live but I would recommend doing NZ GS to anyone who is lucky enough to have the choice!