OATS Planning Room

[wisealderman]

As an existing student at OATS I wish to express my disappointment at recent events.

1. Despite recent cutbacks in staff( to increase Oats profit) we were assured by by the CEO that there would be no more than 3 students per instructor, some now have 5.

2. Where has our planning room gone?

No doubts the recent profits made have got something to do with putting 4 new offices up in our planning room.

It was not needed before so why now?

Why were we as students not asked for our views on this move?

:mad:

Also the new screens could be used in a more productive way other than for propaganda.

OATS needs to think more about what the students require for successful completion of training rather than the needs of a penpusher.

other than that and the algerians, oats has good instructors, which is useful.

[Blighty Pilot]

Same old story with OATS too many chiefs and not enough indians. Communication sounds like its improved by all of 0%.

[oxford blue]

Several points, wise alderman. Firstly, not a bad pub. Clearly, you enjoy it and it's a shorter walk than the Jolly Boatman.

However, to business:

I'm genuinely sorry about the instructor/student ratio, because I agree that it's important. If you were really promised something that you didn't get, don't moan on pprune about it. Firstly, go and see Neil MacMillan. If he can't sort it out, go and see Anthony. Believe it or not, his door is always open, if he's there (he is a busy chap). We honestly believe at Oxford that students (customers) are our life-blood, so we do listen. But you should try to communicate internally before whingeing on pprune.

The planning room is still big enough. Have you honestly ever been really inconvenienced because there were too many students trying to plan at once? Honestly? Really? Get real. It's just a more economical use of space.

The 4 new offices are nothing to do with the recent profits. They're about trying to reduce the costs. At least one of those offices was previously in the farmhouse. By moving it to inside the main building, we can let the farmhouse and reduce the fees to YOU THE STUDENT!!!! Yes, for Christ's sake, we're trying to cut the fees, or at least delay putting them up for as long as possible.


If you've got a suggestion for the new screens, put it up to your course mentor / flight team leader. What did you have in mind? I'm sure we'd all be pleased to know. If it's a good idea, we might even adopt it. A generalised whinge on pprune achieves nothing (except my response, which is genuinely intended to be constructive and helpful, even if my tone doesn't come across right).

None of this was done for the needs of pen-pushers, it was instead done to reduce the fees and give YOU, the fee-payer , better value for money.

Because, make no mistake about it, the FTO world is going to get more and more competitive. Do you honestly think that Oxford does not realise this and does not make every effort to not merely stay ahead, but lead the field?

And I'm glad that you think that the instructors are good, because, of course, it's true.

None of this is intended to put you down. I'm glad that you've aired these views, even though I don't know who you are.

But there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. Have you told the CGI/CFI or anyone else within the Oxford organisation what you think first, before bursting into print on pprune..

If we'd known before, perhaps we could have done something about it.

Anyway, all the best, all the same.

[Alex Whittingham]

A customer complains about the service you offer, you berate him/her in public.

(a) He realises what a big mistake he's made and happily goes back to his studies confident that next time he'll be able to complain properly.

(b) He realises what a big mistake he's made and takes his business elswhere.

Anyway, all the best, all the same.

[pseudorandomnoise]

Wisealderman,

Does indeed seem a strange place to moan and groan, speak to Neil Mac, if anyone can sort out issues it is him. Much respect for him as a person and a flyer (170a)!!!!

I know that when I was there there were issues, but on the whole what a great professional place recognised throughout the world. Keep your head down, and get on with it. ( I know your spending all that money and you want everything to be just so, but nothing is quite ever as we want)!!!!

Good luck. And by the way Jolly Boatman everytime!!!!

[spitfire747]

Something I learnt once, which is true:

If you are truly unhappy with anyone or anything, go directly to the person you are un-happy with and speak to them. I have no experience of OATS as a student, but I have always found them to be approachable and good listeners.

My advice:
Go and talk to the top dog, voice your concerns and i am sure you will come away happy, remember you are the paying customer (customers ALWAYS right - learnt that from school days on Sainsburys checkout)

Posting messages like this i don't think is the best way to tackle this problem.

Good luck & happy flying

[PFD]

I've had enough of the crap on here.

It's a well known fact, the best pub is the Red Lion!!!!

Good constanoon afterble :)

[Gin Slinger]

The Red Lion in Kidlington is mainly frequented by car thieves.

The Red Lion in Yarnton is full of small village inbreeds.

The Jolly Boatman used to have character, but now it's been turned into a Morrells laminated menu food pub.

The Wise Alderman in the best of a bad bunch.

[The Boy Lard]

You cant beat the Crown in Woodstock, have you seen the new barmaid? WOW!

[Gin Slinger]

BL - agree with you!

[and the chap said]

The Crown definately wins any 'best pub' debate and I agree, the new barmaid is a babe.

[EddyCurrents]

Of course, it's not many years since the move into the farmhouse was explained as a means of cutting costs, moving out the tennants who then rented it.

Offices were also moved upstairs - to improve communication. Then some of them were moved back down again after communication didn't improve.

"As soon as we learn't to pull together as a team, we would be reorganised in the search for greater economies. I now know that endless reorganisation is a great excuse to avoid the promotion of the talented and the removal of the worthless"- Petronius Arbiter AD53 Governer General Bithynius Pontus (he committed suicide).

I think Petronius would have liked the Crown better too.

[Matt Black]

Oxford Blue,

One of the key problems at OAT when I was a student there was that the management were not interested in the views of the customers. Consider the closing of the superb modular facility at Gloucester, decanting students mid course into a portacabin at the side of the main OATS building.

So the fees to the student will be reduced with these economies will they? Does that mean that Oxford will be refunding cash to students whose courses are lengthened due to aircraft and instructor availability issues at Kidlington?

A BIG problem at OAT is that self-sponsored students' concerns are not addressed. We were re-assured this was not the case during that move, and found it to be quite the reverse. We were also assured that we would be treated as equals with the airline sponsored students - what a joke! One of my contemporaries there decided he would buy himself an OAT uniform so that he would stop being fobbed off and ignored by staff. He came back telling us the shop refused to sell him the wings to go with the uniform ( despite the fact that he had already qualified for his CPL/IR ) "because only sponsored students" ( and less experienced ones at that ) were allowed to wear them.

Repeatedly, students were mucked around at OAT, and the point of voicing gripes here is that OAT does not pay attention. Until it addresses this point, it will continue to get this sort of bad press.

The only reason I didn't walk out of OAT was that I had a brilliant ex-CFS instructor there, who has since been made redundant. I stayed in spite of OAT managment behaviour, not because of it.
Of course OAT needs to address cost issues to stay financially viable, but keeping five studes on the go with one QFI with limited aircraft availablility is not on, nor is treating the modular studes as a lower priority. OAT management must stop this happening, and act on student complaints to avoid this sort of problem being voiced here.

[wisealderman]

I have noticed self sponcered do get treated worse especially when comencing training on the twin. Often waiting weeks for a new instructor, any comment usually falls on deaf ears. We would all like to go and speak to the CEO face to face and air our views but I dont want to be a marked man/woman for the rest of my training.

[Tigereye]

Too late Wisealderman, Oxfordblue already knows who you are!
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/behead.gif

[oxford blue]

I don't actually, Tigereye, and I'm not interested in finding out, except to try to solve his problems. It's a bit difficult to do that if he remains anonymous.

Honestly, wisealderman, how do you ever expect to sort anything out in life if you never have the balls to make your views known to people who can do something about it? Not just at Oxford, but anywhere else. Do you expect us to be psychic or something?

We are people of integrity. Many of us are ex-military and have been quite accustomed throughout our careers to both giving and receiving unwelcome appraisals of performance without taking it personally or taking it out on the person who gives us the bad news.

Instead of facing up to a problem and simply telling us something we may not know about, you'd rather slag off a reputable well-motivated school on a public website. I think that readers of pprune will draw their own conclusions.

[straight&level]

I am with oxford blue on this one.
As an ex oats instructor and an airline pilot there are occassions when you have to stick your head above the parapit and say what you think-actually quite often!
From my experience most are readily happy to accept comment,critisism as long as it is constructive, and so far it hasn't backfired on me.
Please bear in mind that OATS is training you for a career in the airlines and good CRM would dictate the need to speak up-would you want to be the one critisesed in the accident report as a quiet FO who failed to speak up to a dominent captain-There are plenty of examples that you will run accross at your time at oxford, the teneriffe accident being a classic.
We are all professionals or training to be and you must learn the requirements to be able to speak to those percieved to be in authority-In my experience of oxford they won't think any the worse of you. Apologies for the spelling.

[Alex Whittingham]

Its an interesting attitude. Does the solution to the problem depend on knowing wisealderman's identity? The fact that he/she thinks that a direct approach to Anthony and the management would not be a good idea says something in itself. Also, remember that for every customer who voices a complaint many more will be dissatisfied but say nothing.

Most complaints procedures ask two important questions at the end of the day, did the customer feel satisfied with the outcome and have procedures been changed to remove the problem? In this case I imagine wisealderman feels rather beaten up, next time he/she is unlikely to complain to the company at all. Who gains from that?

[PFD]

Thank you straight and level. You said in a much better way what Oxford Blue wanted to. Bless him he means well.

Any pruners at Oxford who feel strongly enough about things to want to see the CEO/MD Anthony Petteford, then please do. I have found him to be open, honest and he gets things done.

Remember the "I can't get hold of OAT" post a little while ago. He sorted the phone system within 24 hours.

It is very difficult to complain or voice criticism to, or at the person you should, it is much easier to bottle it up and have a moan down the pub, and generally I am as guilty of this as the next, but it doesn't help you or the system in the long run.

So finally to Wise Alderman. I appreciate your frustration, please feel free to email me or talk to anyone at Oxford. Our aim really is to help and please the customer, not always easy when we have so many and of varying characters.

Ignore Alex, he always has a dig at us, he has to as he is the opposition. ;)

Regards to all Pruners, Wannabes and OAT customers.

[Alex Whittingham]

Spot on PFD. That's the way to do it! We'll have you in management yet. :D

[Timmy O'Tool]

Opposition...?

What Opposition...?

Alex and Baz don't have any opposition... :D

[moggie]

Maybe an anonymous complaints/suggestions procedure would be the way ahead.

I know that when I was a student we would suffer in silence because "if we make a fuss we will be marked" - true or not, that is the impression most students have.

OK, anonymous complaints may not help in some cases (you may actually need to know names in particular examples) and there may be some abuse of the system. However, give people the option to put their names on the form and throw the "spoilt papres" in the bin (or better still, recycle them!).

I guess I shouldn't be offering useful suggestions to the opposition, but student welfare and getting value for money are too important.

[oxford blue]

Thanks, Moggie, good idea.

I'll pass it on.

[Johnny 7]

Moggie ,

An anonymous customer comment / suggestion procedure is in place - a box on the wall in the main lobby . Where these
" suggestions " end up though is anyones guess .

Ultimately , the airlines are perceived as " the customer " - it has been this way for a long time & as long as the price is right they seem content . The RAF get a good deal too - just watch the management instructors bend over backwards for them :rolleyes: .

If BA commit to restarting the CEP scheme next May , it will be interesting to see who gets the contract - if it goes to Jerez maybe ACP will give the self-sponsored fraternity a better service ?

[oxford blue]

Johnny 7, why are you being so bloody negative?

We've just said that I think that the man has a point and I'll try and do something about it, and you come up with this sort of snide comment.

Honestly, can't we ever do anything right?

[pseudorandomnoise]

Chin up Oxford Blue!

You can't please everyone all of the time. But you do please most of the people most of the time!!!

[Johnny 7]

oxford blue ,

I'm sorry that you may have taken my remark personally - it is true that you offer a good deal of useful advice and should be commended for that .

My comments reflect the fact that as a business OAT will continue to pursue contract work such as BA , because this represents regular , predictable revenue . There exists an increasing number of customers who are dismayed at the prospect of an increased student population , having been assured that the instructor / student ratio would improve ( see thread elsewhere ) ; The new uniform is a good idea but is it necessary right now ? Accomodation for self & sponsored students is poor - this needs attention . Frankly , it's time the management stopped relying on the good name of the instructional staff & put a bit of thought ( & eventually investment ) into the infrastructure .

At the end of the day , what is needed is feedback - this was understood by dearly departed Bruce - one of a dying breed of gentleman at Oxford . If the consumer at least thinks that progress is being made in his favour then you are half way there . Comments made on this forum from both ' ob ' & 'PFD ' are well meaning but more must be seen to be done by the management to curtail the unhappy sentiments expressed by a few on these pages . OAT is an excellent institution with a rich heritage - I hope it remains so ( profitably ) .

p.s. I understand the new shirts are to be Oxford blue . ;) .