Greed

[dragon man]

The time has long passed where I was proud to work for Qantas. Jetstar has their own webpage “dontflyjetstar.com” ( and this is not a bash Jetstar thread) but I can find nothing for Qantas. Here is a story of some friends travelling to Japan full fare economy. They booked as one, a married couple, checked in on line 24 hours before departure and get seated apart. Phone customer service to request seats together to be told that’s extra, points or money, asks what happens if one is a minor, the response, well that’s different. The only words I can think of are unconscionable behaviour and outright greed. I would enjoy more hearing of others experience.

[wheels_down]

Dragon
were they on seperate bookings, did they book close to departure date...did they seat select at time of booking sounds like they didn’t....Sabre doesn’t normally split bookings up unless the above.

[engine out]

Unfortunately paying for seat selection at time of booking has become the norm for most airlines, not just Qantas. You could start a website for pretty much all airlines on how they screw over passengers. Nothing new to see here.

[Rated De]

It is something that the full service airlines have attempted to do, borrowing from their Low Fare Airline ilk is to chase ancillary revenues.

Problem being in the pursuit of endless margin growth is that the ticket spend per passenger had previously covered such things as seat selection, baggage and meals.

British Airways, now run by one of the new stable of airline 'managers' that have time in the Low Fare Airline business shows the folly.
The descent into stupidity was highlighted very well by product service failures in catering and IT.

That most of an airline's operating cost is fixed, Low Fare Airlines need to make up for the revenue shortfall.
With slim margins in the airline business it is perhaps not a huge surprise that new management see it as a way to grow ancillary revenue.
That it is less than convincing is no huge surprise either.
That there are airlines which have not decided to follow this approach shows that some choose to brand build, thereby building margin in order to add preium to their brand.
A study of Operating margins shows that this latter approach yields steady results whereas short term, a strategy to nickle and dime your customers rather than endear them to you may work, longer term destruction of brand and premium can in fact undermine attempts to preserve operating revenue.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2699532/british-airways-customers-anger-as-airline-struggles-to-serve-entire-flights-after-scrapping-free-

[chimbu warrior]

An issue that I have encountered in the past (not unique to Qantas BTW) is when trying to book 2 people travelling together but each with separate frequent flyer numbers and/or separate credit cards. In all attempts so far this has required 2 separate bookings. Unless I am missing something, there does not seem to be provision to allow 2 travellers to book and pay separately within the same reservation request.

Maybe not a huge issue for most, but annoying to some.

[dragon man]

Dragon
were they on seperate bookings, did they book close to departure date...did they seat select at time of booking sounds like they didn’t....Sabre doesn’t normally split bookings up unless the above.

Sorry, none of the above.

[Chris2303]

Here is a story of some friends travelling to Japan full fare economy. They booked as one, a married couple, checked in on line 24 hours before departure and get seated apart. Phone customer service to request seats together to be told that’s extra, points or money, asks what happens if one is a minor, the response, well that’s different. The only words I can think of are unconscionable behaviour and outright greed. I would enjoy more hearing of others experience.


Full fare economy doesn't pay seating charges. Only those in deep discount N.Q,O classes pay. Once they have checked in reservations cannot change those seats because they don't have access to DCS

[beached az]

Hi Dragon,

Recently the family and I flew back across the ditch for Xmas and against my better judgement I booked with QF via Webjet. HBA/SYD/AKL. 2 hour lay over in SYD with all baggage going all the way through, plenty of time for some leisurely pre-Xmas duty free shopping – or so I though.

A text at 23:15 the night before advised us that the ‘red eye’ (Cobham) out in the morning had been cancelled.
Nice man managed to re route us through MEL on (you guessed it) JetStar ☹ and we would have to collect and re check all bags in MEL.

We were travelling with a toddler, a 6 YO with all associated bags and paraphernalia as well as my mountain bike ☹ Arrival in MEL was an hour late and once we eventually stumbled over to International we found the check in system had **** itself. An hour and a half later with some running we managed to make our gate just after boarding had commence thanks to some que jumping at security check.

Once on board all meal requests were null and void as we were now on a different booking and they ran out of kids meals, "they've all run out"
Mrs was fuming!! At least they didn’t run out of beer 😊

This is the first time in years that I had traveled on QF I’m usually loyal to the VA brand and now I know why. The cost saving simply wasn’t worth all the grief.
The return sectors from NZ were all good. Jet Connect have a far better grasp on customer service that the parent company.

BAz :ok:

[layman]

Is there any airline that doesn't "ignore" it's passengers?

Emirates: their site wouldn't let us check-in online. At checkin we were allocated seats on opposite sides of the A380. Bit of a whinge and 5 minutes of 'fiddling' by checkin staff got us seats across the aisle, one row apart. It was a single booking.

VA: our last 2 flights with them were 90 minutes and 150 minutes, respectively, late departing. The latter very annoying as I rang to confirm if checkin/departure times had been changed and was told I needed to be there 90 minutes before scheduled departure. I was watching on Flight Aware and the aircraft hadn't even departed on its Brisbane / Auckland sector at the time I rang.

Qantas: my window seat preference gave me … a blank wall. 20 years of QC / FF membership didn't seem to count

layman

[Sunfish]

We now travel business class where possible and never with qantas. Few problems. Best airline so far has been Austrian hong kong to vienna closely followed by vietnam airlines.

[Lapon]

I agree with the sentiment, I for one am only as loyal as my next paycheck, as SLF its merely a balance of price & schedule.
I have no loyalty to any particular carrier anymore, although I do avoid Jetstar as experience has taught me thier ability to recover from a disrupt is non existant, at least the mothership and other legacies makes some kind of effort.

[mince]

Did any of you in the examples above complain to the airline concerned? If so what was the response?

My bet is 80% of complaints aren’t directed to the airlines.....

[Square Bear]

"Unfortunately paying for seat selection at time of booking has become the norm for most airlines, not just Qantas."

The OP made no mention of any seat selection at time of booking, just simply stated a incident where a married couple booked two tickets ("booked as one") and ended up being assigned seats in different parts of the aircraft for the duration of a medium haul flight. One would think that if the booking was made as one, at the very least, the airline could ensure that they were seated beside each other.

That QF Customer Service would have been able to provide seating together at the cost of points or cash, show that the seating together was possible, and therefore attaching a cost to make it happen quite simply smacks of gouging.

QF tries to present as the champion and spirit of Australia, but reports like this just make one further believe that it is all a facade.

[Lapon]

My bet is 80% of complaints aren’t directed to the airlines.....

Your probably about right, and the same goes for any business which is why a business must address each compliant with the seriousness it deserves.

So far as the airlines are concerned, front line staff are sympathetic and appear at times appear to share in the grief somewhat, yet they are often powerless to change anything in system where front line realities are a world apart from head office perceptions.
Imagine a world where the basics where sorted before embarking on the pomp and grandeur of game changing product offerings that are anything but.

[dragon man]

Did any of you in the examples above complain to the airline concerned? If so what was the response?

My bet is 80% of complaints aren’t directed to the airlines.....

Why would you bother? The only written complaints in Qantas replied to are Platinum and above.

[Kranz]

Best airline so far has been Austrian hong kong to vienna closely followed by vietnam airlines.

I second Vietnam Airlines.

Had an experience recently where a midday, weekday Cobham flight (branded QF) was cancelled SYD->ADL and wasn't offered an alternative seat until 11:00am the next day. Check in staff even said that it was because of the inter-airline agreement that the wait for another seat was so long (read: the reason I was being punished). If its branded, marketed, and sold under the banner of QF then I don't give a crap what behind the curtains agreements are in place.

P.S. I didn't book the ticket. I refuse to fly on the 717s when I have the choice.

[Lapon]

If its branded, marketed, and sold under the banner of QF then I don't give a crap what behind the curtains agreements are in place. P.S. I didn't book the ticket. I refuse to fly on the 717s when I have the choice

No such thing as a Cobham 717 service these days, they are a Qantas responsibly. QF own the machines, maintain them (in that part of the country), and also make the operational decisions.

Cobham merely supply the pilots and some CC, and even those decisions are now made by QF.

[QuarterInchSocket]

I’ve booked a family member full fare, twice, before learning that it’s just not a good idea!

The cabin crew and checkin staff were cited as the reason that this member will never accept my offer of a free fare on qf again. I’ve also endured 2hrs + WAITING, for call centre reps whilst trying to correct an issue.
Do I blame our crew, checkin staff, call centres? No. I expect that’s just how demoralised some are at the moment. Interesting to note that a lot of posts on qantas’ fb page are complaints about the call centre waiting times.

[Beer Baron]

Seriously?? Is that what this forum is going to be about now, people bitching about their (or someone else's) travel experience as a passenger?

'My tray table was wobbly, I didn't get a window seat, my flight was late, I didn't like the movies on board'. Do we need this junk on a Professional Pilots bulletin board?

Write to the travel section of the paper or https://www.aviationcomplaints.gov.au/

[dragon man]

Seriously?? Is that what this forum is going to be about now, people bitching about their (or someone else's) travel experience as a passenger?

'My tray table was wobbly, I didn't get a window seat, my flight was late, I didn't like the movies on board'. Do we need this junk on a Professional Pilots bulletin board?

Write to the travel section of the paper or https://www.aviationcomplaints.gov.au/


Its simple, if you don’t like the tread don’t read it.

[RatsoreA]

As in individual who is 6’5” tall, and can’t actually fit in a normal seat, I used to select the exit row on booking. Now it’s $30 for the privilege of not having my knees in the back of the pax in front of me for the whole flight. I complained to Qantas in both email and phone form, and told that someone would get back to me (still waiting...) and the phone people said there was nothing they could do, and they would escalate it to a complaints section who would ... get back to me (still waiting). I am able to do anything about my height as I would my eye color, and with airlines making seats closer together and the average height of the population growing, I’m sure this problem will only get worse.

And talk of razor thin margins are b@lls... QF is currently looking down the barrel of a record 1.55 BILLION PROFIT.

[Square Bear]

"Do we need this junk on a Professional Pilots bulletin board?"

I guess it is about being Professional Pilot's, striving to be professionally perfect wondering why the various Airlines (QF in this thread) can't act in the same manner, and are happy to simply provide JUNK service.

No blame to any of the front lines staff, just blaming the ethos and criteria passed down from upper management.......after all part of every cent saved will probably find its way of KPI bonus.

Sadly the Y class is just the fodder providing the money for the Executive bonuses.

[oggers]

Its simple, if you don’t like the tread don’t read it.

It's simple. If you don't like disagreement, don't post.

[Beer Baron]

Its simple, if you don’t like the tread don’t read it.
And perhaps if you hate your employer so much that you lament the fact there is no dedicated website to rubbish them and instead seek to rubbish them on here, how about;

If you don't like your employer, don't work there. Simple.

[dragon man]

And perhaps if you hate your employer so much that you lament the fact there is no dedicated website to rubbish them and instead seek to rubbish them on here, how about;

If you don't like your employer, don't work there. Simple.

Simple , I would like to work for an organisation that looked after its customers instead of crapping on them. An organisation that was like it was in past years when it was a worlds leading airline where management didn’t pay themselves obscene sums of money. The Qantas of old.

[Beer Baron]

Fair enough, I guess we’d all like that.

[dragon man]

Fair enough, I guess we’d all like that.

Thats great, we agree on something.👍👍👍

[Wonderworld]

Dragon
were they on seperate bookings, did they book close to departure date...did they seat select at time of booking sounds like they didn’t....Sabre doesn’t normally split bookings up unless the above.

QF doesn’t use Sabre.

[rodney rude]

28th January, so Xmas peak. Booked 5 members of my family to Perth and return with Virgin. All on frequent flyer points. No problem getting so many seats both way on FF points. All seats were together. Then added a 6th ticket which I paid for, no problem getting her seated with us. Got to the airport and found Emma was not seated with us for the trip over - some booking screw up. But it was no problem for the staff on duty to rearrange two people - voila, all together. Try getting that to happen on QF. Try finding 5 FF seats even on one flight with QF.
Good job VA

[dragon man]

28th January, so Xmas peak. Booked 5 members of my family to Perth and return with Virgin. All on frequent flyer points. No problem getting so many seats both way on FF points. All seats were together. Then added a 6th ticket which I paid for, no problem getting her seated with us. Got to the airport and found Emma was not seated with us for the trip over - some booking screw up. But it was no problem for the staff on duty to rearrange two people - voila, all together. Try getting that to happen on QF. Try finding 5 FF seats even on one flight with QF.
Good job VA

That was the point of the thread , I am concerned at the way I see Qantas treat customers and wonder how long it can go on for. I had a friend try to get a FF ticket from Tokyo to Sydney, any date, nothing for the next 12 months.

[RENURPP]

I had a friend try to get a FF ticket from Tokyo to Sydney, any date, nothing for the next 12 months.I am not a supporter of QF, I wont "pay" for a ticket with them. I will use FF points, BUT there are seats every month from Tokyo to Syd in economy, premium economy and business. as of 5 minutes ago. (I selected the 2 x adult option) Those seats are available from Narita or Haneda.
With all due respect, reading this and your initial post, you may need some assistance with the booking process.

35,000 pys economy
54,000 pts premium economy
72.000 pts business all direct to Syd.
You also have the option of Jetstar (why would you) or Air Japan if you wish (I would go that option) +taxes of course using your QF FF points

[RENURPP]

28th January, so Xmas peak. Booked 5 members of my family to Perth and return with Virgin. All on frequent flyer points. No problem getting so many seats both way on FF points. All seats were together. Then added a 6th ticket which I paid for, no problem getting her seated with us. Got to the airport and found Emma was not seated with us for the trip over - some booking screw up. But it was no problem for the staff on duty to rearrange two people - voila, all together. Try getting that to happen on QF. Try finding 5 FF seats even on one flight with QF.
Good job VA
There are multiple choices on the same route tomorrow and almsot every day for the next couple of months???? Did you have a look or dream that stuff up?
This is tomorrows with 5 x adults. (USING FF to make it clearer)


Flights Out

= Seat available
From

Sydney to Perth Date

Fri 22 Feb 19FromToFlightEconomy Flight 1 out of 1 06:20 SydneyDuration: 4h 55m 08:15 PerthStops: 0 QF565 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF565)
Seat Available QF565 EconomyFlight 1 out of 1 08:25 SydneyDuration: 4h 55m 10:20 PerthStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF575 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF575)
Seat Available QF575 EconomyFlight 1 out of 1 10:25 SydneyDuration: 4h 55m 12:20 PerthStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF581 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF581)
Seat Available QF581 EconomyFlight 1 out of 1 19:55 SydneyDuration: 4h 55m 21:50 PerthStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF583 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF583)
Seat Available QF583 EconomyFlight 1 out of 1 20:05 SydneyDuration: 5h 05m 22:10 PerthStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/jq.pngJQ988 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#JQ988)
Seat Available JQ988 Economyhttps://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/jq.png = Flight JQ988 is operated by Jetstar

Flight 1 out of 2 07:00 SydneyDuration: 1h 35m 08:35 MelbourneStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF409 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF409)
Seat Available QF409 EconomyFlight 2 out of 2 09:05 MelbourneDuration: 4h 05m 10:10 PerthStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF485 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF485)Total duration: 6h 10m Flight 1 out of 2 06:45 SydneyDuration: 1h 35m 08:20 MelbourneStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF403 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF403)
Seat Available QF403 EconomyFlight 2 out of 2 09:05 MelbourneDuration: 4h 05m 10:10 PerthStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF485 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF485)Total duration: 6h 25m Flight 1 out of 2 06:30 SydneyDuration: 1h 35m 08:05 MelbourneStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF405 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF405)
Seat Available QF405 EconomyFlight 2 out of 2 09:05 MelbourneDuration: 4h 05m 10:10 PerthStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF485 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF485)Total duration: 6h 40m Flight 1 out of 2 06:30 SydneyDuration: 2h 05m 08:05 AdelaideStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF735 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF735)
Seat Available QF735 EconomyFlight 2 out of 2 09:20 AdelaideDuration: 3h 20m 10:10 PerthStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF587 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF587)Total duration: 6h 40m Flight 1 out of 2 06:00 SydneyDuration: 1h 35m 07:35 MelbourneStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF401 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF401)
Seat Available QF401 EconomyFlight 2 out of 2 09:05 MelbourneDuration: 4h 05m 10:10 PerthStops: 0 https://book.qantas.com/go/2019.1-5/airlinesicons/big/qf.pngQF485 (https://book.qantas.com/pl/QFAward/wds/tripflow.redirect?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D4784748638207821832287610 2550965843976%7CMCORGID%3D11B20CF953F3626B0A490D44%2540Adobe Org%7CTS%3D1548471720#QF485)Total duration: 7h 10m


Virgin have 2 x direct flights for 5 adults and 1 via BNE available tomorrow.

[Ken Borough]

Some seem to forget that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Or 'free' flights! :}

[markis10]

There are multiple choices on the same route tomorrow and almsot every day for the next couple of months???? Did you have a look or dream that stuff up?
This is tomorrows with 5 x adults.
Virgin have 2 x direct flights for 5 adults and 1 via BNE available tomorrow.

OP wasn’t paying cash, used points.

[RENURPP]

OP wasn’t paying cash, used points.



I understand that, my comments are based on FF points.

[Bull at a Gate]

Sydney to Tokyo with QF FF points? No trouble for me. Booked 9 (yes nine) return trips for all nine of the family for a holiday last year.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Sydney to Tokyo with QF FF points? No trouble for me. Booked 9 (yes nine) return trips for all nine of the family for a holiday last year.

81 tickets - no wonder no-one else can get them! 😳

[PlasticFantastic]

I've had nothing but pleasant experiences with QF - reasonable points availability on busy routes, able to accommodate reasonable change requests, friendly and personal (but not over the top) service, and the few times there have been issues (flight changes or cancellations, or me missing check in due to my own tardiness) they've handled things very well.

I get that people have different experiences, and that travelling can be inherently stressful, but the claim that QF treats its passengers poorly doesn't gel with me.

[Obie]

Back in 1964 I joined Airlines of SA, a subsidiary of Ansett Airlines, and checked out a few months later as a very proud First Officer on the DC 3.
Shortly there after, I walked through the terminal at Adelaide Airport one morning, to sign on for a flight, and heard a very frustrated male customer at the check in desk complaining about the fact that he had been bumped from his flight to Port Lincoln, with his wife and kids, due to an overbooking. He was not happy!
The captain I was rostered to fly with that day was an ex WW2 Spitfire pilot who I had not met before. After sign on, and introducing my self to him, I told him about the cock up I had witnessed at the customer check in desk. I have never forgotten what he said to me... "Son, when you've been around as long as me you'll learn that the airlines are not here to serve the public, the public is here to serve the airlines!"

Having spent 40 odd successful years in aviation since that day, and am long retired, that comment to me is as valid today as is was back in 1964!

[Bull at a Gate]

81 tickets - no wonder no-one else can get them! 😳

Well spotted! Made me laugh, thanks.