UNITED FUBAR NEWFOUNDLAND

[CONSO]

Seems they landed for a medical emegency- but could not close/lock doors ( frozen ) so stayed grounded for many hours in freezing temps with passengers aboard
Trying to find reasonable news . .

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/airplane-mode/travelers-united-flight-hong-kong-delayed-20-plus-hours-unfortunate-n960741

[Trav a la]

More here...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/united-179-goose-bay-1.4985858

[GordonR_Cape]

Posted earlier in the North America sub-forum: https://www.pprune.org/north-america/617465-passengers-united-aircraft-stuck-goose-bay-14-hours.html

[ulispranger]

On first sight, I fully agree, on those unscheduled landings, nobody should worry about immigration papers.
On the other hand, if some country says that everyone on a flight with a medical diversion could enter a country, then it every terrorist would enter any country by having a heart-attack ... and 200+ of his fellows can enter the country.
This is an airport used for emergencies, no matter technical or medical, and they should just call in the customs officers and everyone could enter enter the country, no waiting in a frozen plane.
I am sure this would only happen every third or fourth year, and those officers would probably very proud to help. In this case, it seems that were was no emergency plan existant whatsoever.

[Sailvi767]

The strange part is why UAL did not get a rescue flight to YYR in 3 or 4 hours. It’s a 2 hour flight from EWR.

[RatherBeFlying]

This is on the airport. Certainly there's waiting room capacity with heat and washrooms available - and there's some 20 barrack blocks, with possible vacancies. A commissionnaire or RCMP could supervise in the absence of immigration and customs.

[Matt48]

Seems they landed for a medical emegency- but could not close/lock doors ( frozen ) so stayed grounded for many hours in freezing temps with passengers aboard
Trying to find reasonable news . .

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/airplane-mode/travelers-united-flight-hong-kong-delayed-20-plus-hours-unfortunate-n960741

A few jugs of hot water from the galley?.

[zondaracer]

The strange part is why UAL did not get a rescue flight to YYR in 3 or 4 hours. It’s a 2 hour flight from EWR.

Flight lands in Goose Bay at 8:30pm. An hour later or so they realize they have an issue with the door. Contract maintenance comes out, and I imagine the guy has to drive out from his house so who knows how long it takes. Maybe an hour or so, plus however much time he spends working on the door. After no luck, now it’s close to 1am. United now is calling pilots at home to see if there is anyone who is 1. Legal to fly, and 2. Available to fly, and 3. In the local area. Most of the 777 pilots I know at United are commuters. They find two suitable pilots and give them 2 to 3 hours to make it to the airport. Another hour to get the plane ready, taxi out and fly. 2 hour flight time. This is in an ideal scenario with no hiccups. Easy to see how it could turn into a 14 hour ordeal.

[KelvinD]

And why did nobody read GordonR's post #3?

[Speedywheels]

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551749

I experienced a similar event 6 years ago on a flight from LHR to PHL. We weren't allowed to leave the plane apart from the transfer to the replacement aircraft, being told that their were no immigration staff available at Goose Bay on a Sunday afternoon. Our plane sat in -12C temperatures for 10 hours and it got pretty cold. The rescue aircraft was a LHR-JFK plane that delivered its passengers to NY and then came back up to get us. An experience I don't ever want to repeat.

[CONSO]

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551749

I experienced a similar event 6 years ago on a flight from LHR to PHL. We weren't allowed to leave the plane apart from the transfer to the replacement aircraft, being told that their were no immigration staff available at Goose Bay on a Sunday afternoon. Our plane sat in -12C temperatures for 10 hours and it got pretty cold. The rescue aircraft was a LHR-JFK plane that delivered its passengers to NY and then came back up to get us. An experience I don't ever want to repeat.

Obviously they were worried that passengers would try to escape into the nearest metroplis and enter canada illegaly- instead of taking shelter in a nearby barracks or hangar or ?

And the local townspeople would never notice

[NWA SLF]

I haven't seen any report saying they were in an unheated plane and without food. Yes, I have been through a long delay similar to that. The lengthy stay on the ground was about the same time as the flight would have been. The cabin crew fed us meals like normal, lavatories were always functional, and the in flight entertainment was also operational. Yes, a lot of people were irate, yelling at the cabin crew, being asses. When returning from a lavatory I stopped by a galley to get a drink. The flight attendant asked me if I was going to yell at her like everyone else. I told her that if it would get me to our destination I could yell as loud as anyone but since it wouldn't make any difference, make the best of it. Now if they had been unloaded into a cold terminal with inadequate seating and vending machine snacks, that would have been cruel and unusual.

[Old Boeing Driver]

Looks like United had a second issue in Goose Baay.
https://www.foxnews.com/travel/united-passenger-claims-airline-covering-up-near-death-incident-almost-resulted-in-pilots-being-sucked-out-of-the-plane

[Airbubba]

Looks like United had a second issue in Goose Baay.
https://www.foxnews.com/travel/united-passenger-claims-airline-covering-up-near-death-incident-almost-resulted-in-pilots-being-sucked-out-of-the-plane

That's a mighty big 767 pictured in the linked article about the 2018 divert to Goose.

A cracked windshield on a B-763, oy, the pain and suffering... :{

The passenger who filed the suit Wednesday, Theodore Liaw, claims United is trying to cover up the real story, which he allegedly discovered from the pilots flying the plane.

“United has been lying to everyone about what happened,” the suit claims.

According to one pilot, it wasn’t a bird strike that caused the window to crack because “there’s nothing alive at 40,000 feet.” Instead, they believe the incident was a result of a United mechanic over-torqueing the bolts of the cockpit window.

“Nothing struck Flight 931 in the air. There was no bad weather. Under such ordinary flight conditions, cockpit windows for a Boeing 767-300 do not break of their own accord,” the suit claims.

The document also states that had the last layer of the windshield broken before landing, “both pilots would have likely been sucked out of the plane and Flight 931’s passengers would have been doomed.”

Liaw also says the pilots “grimly mentioned that everyone came close to dying many times over,” according to the suit.

United reportedly gave all passengers on board a $500 voucher in exchange for a release of all liability, though Liaw did not accept it.

Instead, he wants to hold United accountable and is seeking “fair compensation” for his bodily injury and severe emotional distress as a result of the “brush with death.”

Liaw, a CEO and “extremely experienced flyer” who’s flown over one million miles with United, reportedly now has a fear of flying which could put his “entire career in jeopardy.”



And I'm sure the remedy for this fear of flying will be a lot of money and free United tickets. Next he'll claim medical expenses for twisting his ankle while running to his lawyer's office after the flight. I'm joking of course, he actually claims his back was hurt during the landing at YYR:

Fortunately, the skilled pilots of Flight 931 were eventually able to land the aircraft at the Goose Bay Airport located in Goose Bay, a remote city in the Newfoundland province of Canada (the most easterly part of that country).

Due to that rapid descent and the resulting hard landing, Plaintiff suffered a bodily injury.

Specifically, Mr. Liaw injured his back during the landing, and his back remains sore and receives treatment more than two months later.

But wait, there's more. :eek:

From the lawsuit:

Indeed, it was entirely fortuitous that Flight 931 was not further over the Atlantic
Ocean at the time of the accident. If that were the case, the airplane would have had to make an
emergency landing into the ocean itself. As Flight 931’s pilots explained to Plaintiff, everyone on
board would have either died from the impact or would have quickly frozen to death in the cold
ocean.

Plaintiff wandered up to the cockpit to express his appreciation to Flight 931’s pilots on landing the plane in one piece. The pilot and co-pilot were extraordinarily helpful, and freely discussed what had precipitated the near-calamity.

Pointing to the shattered cockpit window, the pilots explained to Plaintiff how two
of the three layers of that window had been completely compromised, and how the co-pilot’s
quick thinking (and extraordinary bravery) had saved everyone by keeping the third layer intact
long enough for the plane to land in Goose Bay. The pilots grimly mentioned that everyone came
close to dying many times over – from the pilots being sucked out of the window, to the fact that
had the plane been further out on its journey, the pilots would have had no choice but to risk an
almost certainly fatal water landing in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

Even if a United mechanic was not responsible for over-torqueing the bolts of the
cockpit window, some other United-related negligence was to blame for the cockpit window
shattering. Nothing struck Flight 931 in the air. There was no bad weather. Under such ordinary
flight conditions, cockpit windows for a Boeing 767-300 do not break of their own accord.

In any event, Plaintiff has suffered severe emotional distress as a result of United’s
accident. In particular, he has seen two different psychologists since Flight 931, and his mental
injuries have not diminished. On five different occasions since then, he has had vivid nightmares
involving people dying in horrific ways. He also now experiences panic attacks when he is in
high locations, whereas he previously never had a fear of heights.

According to LinkedIn Teddy Liaw has a degree in ethnic studies and was president of the student body at Cal Berkeley.

[CONSO]

If it was a front window- unlikely to be sucked out - if a side window - possible. but both pilots out the window - shades of james bond and gert frobe !
yes a side window ' suckout'/blowout - can happen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390

[cappt]

The danger of discussing anything related to this job with joe public nowadays.

[timbob]

Door issue aside, this flight could not have continued to HKG because Goose Bay has no ETOPS-qualified B-777 mechanics to inspect and release the flight. Goose Bay fuel would not meet UAL's fuel freeze testing requirements for polar flights. For these same reasons, the "rescue" 777 had to return domestically to Newark. Reports are that the passenger in question walked out the door and down the stairs to his medical escort. Poor choice of airports for a medical diversion, better choice would be Gander'St. Johns, Newfoundland or Keflavik, Iceland. Chances are also good that the aircraft did not dump enough fuel to avoid an overweight landing, another lengthy inspection requiring qualified mechanics. Captain made a bad decision or got himself talked into one.

[calypso]

Captain made a bad decision or got himself talked into one

I doubt the captain is a trained doctor or that he walked down the back to see the ill passenger. He had to act on the information given to him by the crew and by any qualified medical professional on board. If they said "the pax life is at risk, we recommend he gets specialist care right away" he had no choice to divert to the nearest medical facility. Shame he could not contacted with you via sat phone, you could have told him what to do....

[West Coast]

​​​​​ Chances are also good that the aircraft did not dump enough fuel to avoid an overweight landing ​​

Share with us how you think the chances were good of this happening.

[ironbutt57]

Door issue aside, this flight could not have continued to HKG because Goose Bay has no ETOPS-qualified B-777 mechanics to inspect and release the flight. Goose Bay fuel would not meet UAL's fuel freeze testing requirements for polar flights. For these same reasons, the "rescue" 777 had to return domestically to Newark. Reports are that the passenger in question walked out the door and down the stairs to his medical escort. Poor choice of airports for a medical diversion, better choice would be Gander'St. Johns, Newfoundland or Keflavik, Iceland. Chances are also good that the aircraft did not dump enough fuel to avoid an overweight landing, another lengthy inspection requiring qualified mechanics. Captain made a bad decision or got himself talked into one.


glad you know all about it...Captain followed company procedures maybe???

[India Four Two]

Interesting article on CBC News:

The agency declined CBC's request for an interview and provided an emailed response instead Tuesday afternoon, saying the Goose Bay airport is designated "an authorized AOE/15," which allows for the clearance and refuelling of scheduled air traffic "not exceeding 15 passengers and crew."Decision rests with the pilot: CBSACBC asked the agency whether that means Goose Bay Airport doesn't have the capacity to handle unscheduled flights with more than 15 people aboard, and if so, what has changed since nearly 200 people on a diverted United Airlines flight in June 2015 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/united-airlines-flight-diverted-to-happy-valley-goose-bay-twitter-erupts-1.3113036) were allowed to get off.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/goose-bay-united-airlines-cbsa-1.4990928

[Radgirl]

Reports are that the passenger in question walked out the door and down the stairs to his medical escort.

(the captain)... had to act on the information given to him ....... by any qualified medical professional on board.

Exactly. 25 years after we started training CC in use of defibrillators, and the Phoenix medical support service became operational, it is staggering we allow 'doctors' of unknown provenance, who have no aviation knowledge, no knowledge of the effect of decompression, and no information on the medical facilities at the destination or diversion to make decisions. While I accept that a doctor my have an input if a patient has a cardiac arrest, we should be circumspect about any volunteer's qualifications and look to bolster the training of CC especially on long haul. Some years ago a meeting suggested a subset of CC could receive additional medical training which would not only be cost effective but good for customer satisfaction in this case

[RatherBeFlying]

CBSA and the airport are sleeping at the switch.

Is it that difficult to develop a contingency plan to take the pax and crew to a holding area and find a delegated officer, likely RCMP, to supervise:confused:

​​​​​

[RevMan2]

Happens in the best of families. Delayed out OF AKL to LAX, arriving at 03:00 PST. We waited until 06:00, the time Customs and Immigration clocked on.... (Flight attendant told me of arriving just after the end of the “innernational” airport’s late shift. Andwaiting 7hours untilopening time..

[pilot9250]

Exactly. 25 years after we started training CC in use of defibrillators, and the Phoenix medical support service became operational, it is staggering we allow 'doctors' of unknown provenance, who have no aviation knowledge, no knowledge of the effect of decompression, and no information on the medical facilities at the destination or diversion to make decisions. While I accept that a doctor my have an input if a patient has a cardiac arrest, we should be circumspect about any volunteer's qualifications and look to bolster the training of CC especially on long haul. Some years ago a meeting suggested a subset of CC could receive additional medical training which would not only be cost effective but good for customer satisfaction in this case

You appear to be suggesting select CC be given a little bit of training in something complex that they will never practise professionally, and have confidence to overrule or ignore PAX presenting medical credentials.

This doesn't seem very well advised, at least to me.

I expect the select CC would per force err on the side of caution and make it less likely to avoid a diversion.

Put me as CC in that position and I know I would.

[Midland63]

Ref. frozen door, I remember watching a TV series in the mid 90s about the original development of the 777 and one of the tests featured was whether the doors would open in some very icy looking place. Anyone else remember this series?