EagleJet in this market? Really?

[Aso]

I just saw an EagleJet low houred pilot advert.... In this market?? Really??

P2F is bad and in this market especially a waste of money!!

Any idea what airline they send their victims err customers to?

[Banana Joe]

For the CRJ the operator is Nordica.

[obelix360]

Any idea for A320/B737?

[Banana Joe]

Maybe GetJet Airlines. They are a P2F gig.

Is there a shortage of pilots? Yes, but of experienced pilots. Many airline's requirements, especially the smaller ones, are determined by the insurance conditions (500 hours on type for example). This is why agencies like EagleJet and AviationCV will keep offering P2F solutions. Like it or not, it works for some. Someone I know had to wait 6 years for his first job, he took the plunge and went for a P2F scheme two years ago with a short and medium-haul operator and now is a 747 FO.

[obelix360]

I thought that for A320 was Pegasus...

[taromcheat]

Hi folks. I have some friends currently with Tarom-eaglejet program, and they seems very uncomfortable and frustrated. They are not flying because they are not priority for the company. They neither have any right with Tarom or Eaglejet. Bad deal....

[Pinuz89]

Really ?

I have a friend there, he applied in EagleJet first and then went in Tarom, apparently he's quite happy about it.

I would like to know something more, because I evaluating this option.

[taromcheat]

Bufff. I have been speaking with him and he said, there have 2 programs. Airbus 320 and Boeing 737.
In both of them, are stuck, about 10 pilots in each program, and are spending around 10 - 12 months to complete 200 hrs.
Ask again your friend, about the real situation.

[A320LGW]

I found a job 20 days after picking up my license. Fully paid type rating on good terms with a good salary, all expenses from the start of type rating is covered by the company.

Anyone willing to take crappy conditions in this market is either not aware of how good the market is or not able to pass any assessment for a good company, or too lazy to try to prepare for assessments. I'm understanding the risks involved and why people are taking these really bad offers from 3rd world airlines in eastern europe, but really until you try you will not realise just how good the market is. Is a shame to undersell yourself today, absolutely not necessary.

You don't need pay for type rating or be treated like slave by any company and then not even fly. Is not 2012 anymore.

[sadboeing]

The program is not as shiny and beautiful as it seems, so get it right before you start. Greetings.

[GREATFEMPILOT]

It's 2019 and there's still a market for P2F. It's unbelievable. Black sheeps harvesting the blindfolded.

[Kein09]

I am not patron of Eagle of P2F theme but situation is not easy to find a job.
It is always depend on one’s environment and luck. For example, living in Asia makes someone such unfortunate life, if one is not successfully making through screen process of airline made cadet program to become pilot.
Even though they get full license themselves and look for airline job in other part of Asian countries, airlines require 500hrs on type… that make people struggle to find a job.

You said you got airline job smoothly after completing CPL and Multi IFR training.
I believe you put yourself a nice environment living in country which has good aviation source to chase your aviation career. I think you are one of luckiest guys who didn’t face any difficulty flying a big jet.

Yes, it is 2019 but misery is still continued those people without hours on type.

[Pinuz89]

I agree with the last post, it's not easy to find a job if you don't have a TR and hours.
Before saying what I'm going to tell, I would like to underline that I undergone several assessment, with differents airlines.
And it turned out that only experienced people (or lucky people) got their first job, without pulling out more money.

Just for making an example, on my last interview only 1 guy got the job out of 6, and, on my second to last only 1 over 7. And in both cases those guys had a previous job in aviation (one with 8000h and 3/4 TRs), nothing to do with fresh pilots coming from the MCC.

So even if experience is not required on the job advertisement, it's still preferable, and if you are a fresh student, you'll be on the bottom of the list.
Maybe one or two years ago the scenario was better than now.

So the question is: is it better to remain on the ground having spent 100k (more or less), or spending 40k more and having more chances, no matter how ethic or moral this choice is ?
Because I'm honest and not hypocrite, I would chose the second one.

And for who was telling, by the way, that P2F is unethical, please answer these questions:

- How ethical is an MPL where they ask you 150k (more or less), when an integrated course is just half of it ? (maybe because you are buying a job, or paying the TR and line training ?)

- How ethical are airlines that ask you to pay the TR (30k or more), without giving you any contract on hand before having finished the course itself ?

- How ethical are guys that had a job, by luck of the period, and are blaming other unlucky guys for incompetence, or attitude lack, when actually the reason is only that they were looking for a job in the wrong period ?

It's easy in this world to take shots at people with the same or better preparation, but less luck !

[spacecruiser]

Guys be careful from pay to fly scheme. Recently few of my colleagues been looted through aviationcv based in Lithuania.

[Kein09]

I agree MPL is not ethical and fair system because those students under MPL are basically cadets of airlines undertaken by airlines associated designated schools or aviation colleges.
I live in Japan now and it is hash reality for those who completed general aviation training facilities (ordinary flight schools) will not be haired. Instead those who graduated airlines associated schools or colleges only be hired by connection to airlines.
I heard these flight schools and colleges pay hefty amount of money to airlines once students hired. It is a common unfair practice taken place in aviation industry in Japan. I believe above all circumstances are not ethical than P2F.


I think those people who never experience any difficulty getting into airlines will not understand how other feel…
These attitude is very common among pilots who went through attractive cadets pilot program and etc.

[BoeingLudo737]

spacecruiser

AviationCV are a bunch of robbers and should be kicked out of the aviation market!

[Pinuz89]

Kein09


Exactly that's the realtity.
Of course I'm not including everyone in my comment, as I knew a lot of clever and genuine guys, having exhibited good performance.
But some of them feel like top guns, considering other guys incompetent for not having landed the job, only because they applied perhaps in the wrong period.

[savudana]

Last update about Tarom -eaglejet program. It can be called “the big strike”. Caution, caution. Mega fool. This program is basically design to get fresh money for the company, and fresh money for Eaglejet. The perfect deal for them.

In the beginning all will be fine and nice. You will finish soon, good quality instruction, high standard company........ buuuuuuuuuuuu..... all is false.

Eventually you will feel comfortable until see the ground instruction classroom. In this point you’ll start having doubts. Only the beginning... after few days you’ll go to request some info....and... you’ll realize that you are not well enclosed. Then again you will feel like if you are a piece of **** because every question asked will be answered with a bad manner.

Anyway. Then you’ll do your TR in nice place like Istanbul or Amsterdam. Afterwards you will wait to do ur conversion course another while.. like 3-4 weeks. High quality courses sure...At the end, your base flight, your wished 6 take off and landings...another 2,3 or maybe 4 weeks. Is supposed you are fully ready and starts the worse phase.

Flying? You'll be lucky if you fly 30/40 hours per month.

If you are brave, good luck, but take in account the huge quantity of money and time you'll spend.

[Oddball77]

Hi folks. I have some friends currently with Tarom-eaglejet program, and they seems very uncomfortable and frustrated. They are not flying because they are not priority for the company. They neither have any right with Tarom or Eaglejet. Bad deal....
Good! I hope they lose all their money too! That's what should happen to all P2F pilots.

[alexpilot737]

One of my former instructors left the job for the P2F program of Eaglejet.
It was for the B737 with Mauritania Airlines. It took over 18 months to do 500 hours.

[a319acj]

Hi .... if anyone has ever signed up to Eaglejet can they please PM me ?
I just have one question about the contract

Thanks

[giggitygiggity]

The answer is don't sign the contract. Really quite simple!

[PilotLZ]

101% agreed. There simply couldn't be a better advice on that.

Also, please do not compare P2F to overpriced type ratings, as many who choose to play devil's advocate do. It's not the same, although airlines also often have a finger in the pie in said type ratings. Paying a training provider for a course, whatever the price and the relation of that provider to the airline is one thing. Paying an employer to occupy a vacancy which could have otherwise been a paid job and someone's means to make a living is something completely different. And it can come back and bite your lower back in more than one way. I've seen myself recruiters who put the lowest priority on a candidate that seems to be coming from the P2F route. As attractive as it may seem to someone who has the money readily available, it will damage your prospects. Aviation is a very small world and the stain on your reputation will stay there for years.

[Arkanwings]

Anyone recently enrolled in one of eaglejet B737 or A320 programs and can share details such as where they do the TR / what airlines in Europe / North Africa are we talking about and how long does it take? Thanks to those who answer.

[Mikeca]

Dear Arkanwings,

I'm considering this route as well, any update so far?
You can send me an email or I can send you a PM if you can make a room.I did research on it but I have never talked to anybody who has actually gone through this route.

If you could talk to me even a little, it would be very appreciated.

Even if you have not joined it, I am happy to share the information I gathered.

[loopingz]

I had an offer yesterday for "Europe" it felt like a kick in the b*ll. I am older than average but I am not willing to go through that

[jo.van]

Dear Arkanwings,

I'm considering this route as well, any update so far?
You can send me an email or I can send you a PM if you can make a room.I did research on it but I have never talked to anybody who has actually gone through this route.

If you could talk to me even a little, it would be very appreciated.

Even if you have not joined it, I am happy to share the information I gathered.

Did you go with the program?

[rajveer]

I am kind of in the same situation as well at the moment, having a CPL-(A) from EASA with all the valid ratings. I kind of feel dumb doing the course due to the fact of how sad the market is, literally everywhere they are asking for experience on type and my nationality makes it worse which is Indian. I am so close of considering pay 2 fly because it looks like I do not have any options at the moment, if there is anyone who can pour a glimpse of hope or any advice please feel free.

[ptflying]

Have you already tried Wizz and Ryanair? Those seem like the only viable options for us cadets

[pilotjavi1997]

Hello sir would you like to share with me how is going your experience with ej

[Contact Approach]

The first 500 hours on multi-crew aircraft are arguably your most important. Stay well away from schemes like this that serve only to protect the company, not the “customer”.

[Richard_]

any recent feedback?

[Richard_]

i am kind of in the same situation as well at the moment, having a cpl-(a) from easa with all the valid ratings. I kind of feel dumb doing the course due to the fact of how sad the market is, literally everywhere they are asking for experience on type and my nationality makes it worse which is indian. I am so close of considering pay 2 fly because it looks like i do not have any options at the moment, if there is anyone who can pour a glimpse of hope or any advice please feel free.

any luck so far buddy?

[rotorwills]

This is very old information that was gleaned by me now more than 15 years ago so will be well outdated but as there seems to be a lack of info regards Eagle Jet p2f.

I spent virtually a full day at a conference and got talking to a young FO who had contracted to do 500 hours, Eagle Jet . 737 with Royal Air Maroc, based in Casablanca. The 500 hours were expected to be completed within 9 months. In fact he said was just under two years he spent there and he never did complete the 500 hours. He was approached by outfit Belgium Fly4U. Govt a short term contract and hours up to 1000. The contract ended and he ended up in the corporate world, that was how I I met him , he was attending due to the skipper illness and he was filling in for him.

Whilst with Eagle he paid $50k upfront with no get out. He was treated by RAM very poorly, operations and many of the local aircrew. He had to pay for his own accommodations and subsistence , nearly two years, crazy costs, I have no idea if anything has changed much, I doubt it. However it's a path that some will take but that's a aviation thing.

Hiope this provides some if old information.

[Contact Approach]

any recent feedback?

Did you choose to ignore sensible advice or are you simply unable to comprehend reality?

[Ragneir]

From the people that have been joining Avion via these, they are now cadet programs. You pay, but you get a salary equal to every other FO in the company with all the benefits. Your contract is exactly the same as everyone else's.

Eaglejet gets you to join as TR Cadet, BAA gets you to join as NTR. I've heard some horror stories about BAA cadets, but eaglejet ones are mostly satisfied.

Just informing on how it's working. I'll be honest, if I didn't manage to join without paying, I'd definitely go through one of these. I can make money back, but not time. Everyone saying all the companies are hiring, but the reality is, from the 100% of pilots I know that finished since 2021, only 5% managed to join the big boys... And 4.5% out of those 5% joined via Ryanair (which has the same thing. You pay for type rating and 500h and you get a salary).

[Richard_]

any friends or close associates you know whom have enrolled on the eagle jet programme?

[Ragneir]

Only people I know are just cadets I met on some bases here and there.
As I said most eaglejet ones are very satisfied and fly as much as anyone else.

[African_TrouserSnake]

Just informing on how it's working. I'll be honest, if I didn't manage to join without paying, I'd definitely go through one of these. I can make money back, but not time. Everyone saying all the companies are hiring, but the reality is, from the 100% of pilots I know that finished since 2021, only 5% managed to join the big boys... And 4.5% out of those 5% joined via Ryanair (which has the same thing. You pay for type rating and 500h and you get a salary).

I agree, you're buying time and the Avion scheme isn't that bad, if anything RYR runs the same money grabbing crap.

I know a few people who did the scheme via Eagle and BAA. Here are the keypoints:

It isn't a done deal. You don't pay your way into the righthand seat with either, no guaranteed pass or anything.
You still need to do the whole assessment, and you can fail at every part. I know that multiple people failed, including some from BAA.
Eagle doesn't pre-screen with them before the typerating. Meaning that it is possible for the airline to not invite you to the assessment you based on your profile. This has happened!

In summary; know what you're getting into. It is a hard business, ultimately revolving around money. As far as I know, apart from this scheme, the other Eagle schemes are pure pay-to-fly, meaning you get paid exactly 0 euros.

[African_TrouserSnake]

This is very old information that was gleaned by me now more than 15 years ago so will be well outdated but as there seems to be a lack of info regards Eagle Jet p2f.

I spent virtually a full day at a conference and got talking to a young FO who had contracted to do 500 hours, Eagle Jet . 737 with Royal Air Maroc, based in Casablanca. The 500 hours were expected to be completed within 9 months. In fact he said was just under two years he spent there and he never did complete the 500 hours. He was approached by outfit Belgium Fly4U. Govt a short term contract and hours up to 1000. The contract ended and he ended up in the corporate world, that was how I I met him , he was attending due to the skipper illness and he was filling in for him.

Whilst with Eagle he paid $50k upfront with no get out. He was treated by RAM very poorly, operations and many of the local aircrew. He had to pay for his own accommodations and subsistence , nearly two years, crazy costs, I have no idea if anything has changed much, I doubt it. However it's a path that some will take but that's a aviation thing.

Hiope this provides some if old information.

I think this is unchanged, people need to understand that Eaglejet is just a middle man providing a service. You pay them for the hours, they provide you with the hours.
Where, when and how is not any of their concern. Their primary concern is that you'll meet the payment terms in the contract.