Guard Duty

[ORAC]

Think of those suffering on our behalf. The things we do for our country....

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8236381/female-soldier-sexually-assault-male-colleague-warning/

Windsor Castle guard ‘cried out for help as he was sexually assaulted by drunk female trooper at 3am’

[Saintsman]

That’s equality.

[MPN11]

It’s a brave new world, full of unexpected perils. But that is one I had never considered. ;)

[langleybaston]

Why does it always happen to other blokes?

I read, when I was 19, that women are at their peak performance at 29, and men at 19.

Nothing. Zilch. All those 29 year-olds missed out big time.

This was in 1956.

Is it too late ..... 29 would do nicely?

[MPN11]

I was never pursued by older women ... just younger ones.

I’m glad I’m out of that game now!,

[stevef]

"He called out 'help me'. Eventually the guard commander pulled her away."
What a terrible experience for the poor man... I hope he'll be suitably compensated for that traumatic experience. I wonder how many eighteen-year-old WW2 Bomber Command crews would have dreamed of that opportunity. :hmm:

[Lantern10]

Probably around 99%.
Too bad she picked the 1%.

[Flap62]

Perhaps it’s an indication of generational change but I’m a bit surprised at some of the posts on this. If it had been a male squaddie doing this to a female would the response have been the same? We live in an age of equality and her actions are just as reprehensible as if a man had done it. Let’s have less of the “ he needs to man up and enjoy himself “ Carry On attitudes eh?

[SASless]

A couple of points need making....firstly...a family friend now deceased went to Canada and wound up at Teeside flying Lancasters to Germany.....33 Trips.....and had something similar happen to him.

He very politely declined what he described as a very hard thing to reject as she was quite a looker. He was married to his school hood sweetheart and he honored those vows over a nights enjoyment.

He also never consumed any alcohol in his life. He was a Man I very much looked up to....

I have fallen quite short of his example in regard both the Ladies and Demon Drink.

Far better this Squaddie call for help....and have witnesses to what was going on rather than it get really ugly and just have his word against hers.

We know how that works this day and time....guilty before proven innocent.

Perhaps a photo of the Perp might help in qualifying our comments about this.

Is she attractive or a "Deployment Queen"?

[stevef]

Open comment:
When was the last time you stood in a pub and cried to your mates that you'd been sexually assaulted by someone of the opposite sex! :)
I worked in a supermarket warehouse pro tem back in the 70s and was groped several times by a pack of shop girls having a laugh. No harm done and nobody got raped. I like to think I've got bigger balls and a better sense of humour than today's snowflakes.

[Tashengurt]

There do seem to be some obvious double standards at play here.
The fact is that if a male forced himself on a female in that way he could expect to be on the end of some fairly serious disciplinary charges and probably criminal ones too.
You simply cannot turn that through 180° and say it's just one of those things or imply the victim is somehow lacking because he's male.

[stevef]

Apparently the SAS is open to female applicants these days. I can't see the successful girls in the regiment taking more than they can give.
We're talking Fighting Forces, not convent schools... I'm probably drifting off the subject here so I'll sign off.

[Shaft109]

In all seriousness - if she made any kind of allegation against him his life would be destroyed and with all due respect it seems some don’t grasp that fact.

Years ago this would be laughed off but at my company there’s a mark on the floor where if you stand on it you’re visible on at least 2 cameras and just about on audio specifically because of the threat from one woman.

She wouldn’t hesitate to falsely accuse someone if she got the chance - those ‘dob someone in’ phonelines for DWP?
she’s used them to make life hard.

VP M Pence has a rule he won’t have one on one meetings with females without his wife present.

it’s not a game for young men now

[Pontius Navigator]

A colleague of mine, found not guilty, was in the reverse situation and charged with molesting a 'wife of'.

Regardless of the truth of the matter there were no witnesses and he was court martialled. The young man was sensible and got witnesses.

[ORAC]

I presume he stood to attention throughout the track?

[vascodegama]

Legally this is a case of sexual harassment, by coincidence there is a programme available on BBC iPlayer which covers this very subject. Women want equal opportunity and they should get it, including any punishment for such misbehaviour.

[ShyTorque]

As the military always says, one volunteer is worth ten pressed men.

(One could possibly make oneself available for the odd Thursday night....).

[Tashengurt]

Legally this is a case of sexual harassment, by coincidence there is a programme available on BBC iPlayer which covers this very subject. Women want equal opportunity and they should get it, including any punishment for such misbehaviour.

It's actually sexual assault. Gazza is currently on trial for similar. (Perhaps less?)

[vascodegama]

TG

Fair point , although I would have thought that the harassment case would be easier to prove.

[Tashengurt]

TG

Fair point , although I would have thought that the harassment case would be easier to prove.

Harrassment generally requires a course of conduct to be pursued over two or more occassions (though not always)
Usually that covers unwanted calls, texts, visits etc but the list of possible behaviours is endless.
I think you're confusing the idea of sexual harrassment as defined in the Equality Act which generally governs workplace incidents.

The case and the comments it attracts are interesting in that they show a snapshot of how a change in attitude toward what were generally regarded as normal behaviours, driven by a vocal minority and a raft of legislation, can leave large portions of the population scratching their heads.

You can chart the change through film:
Weird science; "Are you sure you're only 15?"
Sexual assault. Lock her up.

Say anything; John Cusack tries to woo back his lover with a big stereo in her garden.
Stalking. 'cuffs on.

Any film where the protaganists have a drunken shag;
No consent when intoxicated. Rape. Lock (probably him. [Always is]) up.

I'm glad I'm married and well out of it.

[brakedwell]

I presume he stood to attention throughout the track?

I'm surprised the poor chap hasn't been offered counselling and a stress management course.

[SASless]

Having seen a photo of the "Perp".....she is welcome to drink at my end of the Bar anytime!

I stand ready to offer any sort of mentoring or counseling she might desire.


On a serious note....can we take a step back in time and consider this.

This incident would have seen as a case of drinking to excess and any resulting behavior shy of property damage, physical injury to another, or rendering oneself unfit for the next days duty.....would be. handled exactly like that at Unit Level and nothing more would be said.

These are Soldiers we are talking about here....this PC horse **** is just that.

Administer Company Punishment....warn her agains ANY repeats and move on.

If she straightens up and flies right....then there was a positive outcome.

How many of you....including myself....have done something extremely stupid while drinking way to much?

My escapade cost me and my entire Platoon three Months Restriction to Barracks when not engaged in Training.

[vascodegama]

I think you're confusing the idea of sexual harrassment as defined in the Equality Act which generally governs workplace incidents.

Is this not the workplace for them?

[Tashengurt]

I think you're confusing the idea of sexual harrassment as defined in the Equality Act which generally governs workplace incidents.

Is this not the workplace for them?

Yes but arguably this goes beyond simple sexual harrassment.

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

[QUOTE: I like to think I've got bigger balls .......[/QUOTE]

Maybe that is why you were targeted?
Just saying.

Aaron.

[BEagle]

1. Sensible of the chap on guard to get witnesses - avoids further problems if the rebuffed woman were to make a counter claim.
2. The woman was undoubtedly given a sound "Wise up and don't get so drunk that you lose your inhibitions in future" debrief as well as a 3 month warning.
3. Her mates should have looked after her and stopped her nonsense PDQ rather then letting her make such an idiot of herself.
4. The 'angry colleagues' who tipped off military police officers after learning that the woman was only handed a warning are the ones who should 'man up'. I imagine that they will have had a gypsy's to that effect?
5. The CO exercised sound judgement, in my opinion. All subordinates should have accepted his ruling - and not have gone squealing to the press.
6. Time to move on for all concerned.

[kghjfg]

If the lady in question was so drunk she didn’t know what she was doing, and the chap in question wasn’t.
Then she couldn’t consent, and then he’d be done for rape if she decided to take that course of action.
I remember this being the basis of a case a short while ago.

Chap did the right thing in the world we now live in.

[AR1]

It's a different world these days. Not saying better or worse , but different to the one most of us grew up in. The chap did exactly the right thing, it's not a cry for help but a request for witnesses.

[Hydromet]

BEagle - spot on!

[SASless]

This time I fully endorse Beags' offering to the letter!

[Melchett01]

1. Sensible of the chap on guard to get witnesses - avoids further problems if the rebuffed woman were to make a counter claim.
2. The woman was undoubtedly given a sound "Wise up and don't get so drunk that you lose your inhibitions in future" debrief as well as a 3 month warning.
3. Her mates should have looked after her and stopped her nonsense PDQ rather then letting her make such an idiot of herself.
4. The 'angry colleagues' who tipped off military police officers after learning that the woman was only handed a warning are the ones who should 'man up'. I imagine that they will have had a gypsy's to that effect?
5. The CO exercised sound judgement, in my opinion. All subordinates should have accepted his ruling - and not have gone squealing to the press.
6. Time to move on for all concerned.

Agreed, and in the past during Command appointments, 'there but for the grace of God' has crossed my mind when considering alcohol related issues given that like most, my friends and I enjoyed a beverage or 2 as JOs.

However, we are unfortunately no longer in an era where common sense and proportion can be taken into account when dealing with incidents. The Armed Forces push equality in all its aspects hard, and CDS is very anti-drink. Had the tables been turned and had it been a male on female rather than female on male issue I'm almost certain he'd be looking at a more serious outcome. Yes, it probably is 'one of those things' that most of us who joined in an earlier era would raise a smile at and think 'if only'. But it does nothing to convince me that the MOD has little more than a tick box mentality towards equality and discrimination.

[heights good]

A few thoughts.

1. How would you feel if the tables were turned and it was your wife/daughter that was pinned down?

2.What if you were pinned down by a gay man, as a heterosexual man that could be pretty stressful. Perhaps the chap concerned was gay (despite claiming to have a GF.)

3. The chap concerned could have suffered secual abuse or rape when younger. PTSD from combat would have brought a huge amount of sympathy and understanding. PTSD from sexual abuse can be just as debilitating but comes with a HUGE amount of shame.

Cut the guy from slack. He wasn’t happy for his own reasons that should not need justifying to others. For those thinking him over-sensitive, please be mindful that you are viewing through your own eyes.

Consenting.

Sexually active.

Willing to have casual sex.

Not in a relationship or bothered about infidelity.

To understand someone, walk a mile in their shoes....

HG

[SASless]

If Bull Frogs had wings.......

The young lady got intoxicated and messed up....no one got harmed.

She got disciplined for her misconduct.

End of Story.

The Boys that talked out of school on the other hand......failed to place their trust in their Commander....that is inexcusable.

Perhaps they also need a bit of sage counsel by their RSM in terms Toms understand.

[BEagle]

There must be quite a few Household Cavalry stables which need mucking out.... Perhaps the 'angry colleagues' will be...'happy' to (be) volunteer(ed) for such duty?

[Pontius Navigator]

Also today, talking out of school is much easier. Not only do people now have phones, internet and farcebook, and they can blab at Will, that woman also had her photo in the Sun.

In earlier days you needed money for a call box and then had to find and queue for one. The NOTW lurid stories still surfaced but it was not as easy.

[dctyke]

Rosenmontag early 80s. A young single Cpl out on the town gets accosted by a nice looking older women. She cut off his tie and is led off with his mates cheering him on. Three days later RAFP arrest him after her husband found out what happened. She says he raped her and despite even her friends saying she led him on and willingly went to his room he is found guilty at court marshal. We were all stunned, we all thought he would easily get off the charge as it went through due process. He got dismissed and ended up doing three years in gaol.

[langleybaston]

If Bull Frogs had wings.......

The young lady got intoxicated and messed up....no one got harmed.

She got disciplined for her misconduct.

End of Story.

The Boys that talked out of school on the other hand......failed to place their trust in their Commander....that is inexcusable.

Perhaps they also need a bit of sage counsel by their RSM in terms Toms understand.
RCM .......Household Cavalry

[SASless]

I stand corrected.....but I bet other than headgear there is not much difference in the outcome!

[ShyTorque]

In my distant and more foolish youth, as a junior pilot, we were on a short detachment at an overseas NATO airbase. Whilst drinking a cup of tea (in an attempt to offset a pint too many from earlier in the evening) I was offered a "Golden Globes" award at very close range from an attractive member of an allied force (you can read into that what you will). I was told later that I inadvertently disrespected the lady's kind offer by falling asleep on her sofa instead, much to the chagrin of the lady involved. I never lived it down with a certain Flight Commander of the time. He continued to remind me of it many years later.

These days I wouldn't do any different....my hobby is nodding off on the sofa. In these uncertain times, probably for the best anyway.

[NutLoose]

In my distant and more foolish youth, as a junior pilot, we were on a short detachment at an overseas NATO airbase. Whilst drinking a cup of tea (in an attempt to offset a pint too many from earlier in the evening) I was offered a "Golden Globes" award at very close range from an attractive member of an allied force (you can read into that what you will). I was told later that I inadvertently disrespected the lady's kind offer by falling asleep on her sofa instead, much to the chagrin of the lady involved. I never lived it down with a certain Flight Commander of the time. He continued to remind me of it many years later.

These days I wouldn't do any different....my hobby is nodding off on the sofa. In these uncertain times, probably for the best anyway.

At least it was on the sofa, I hate to tell you were I once fell a sleep lol, she was not impressed, but I did have a good excuse.

[ShyTorque]

Could've been worse - she might have said "If I'm asleep when you're done, pull the front of my nightie down again!" :p