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slate100
14th Jan 2019, 12:52
1. Why is "After Takeoff /Climb" checklist written that way?

Does Airbus intend us to say "After Takeoff Climb Checklist"?


2. Parking Brake As Required

Does Airbus want us to say "Set" or "On" if the Parking brake is indeed on.


3. Baro Ref Challenge

One of my instructors insisted we respond with, for example, "QNH 1011 Set".

Note the "QNH" addition, but I can't find anywhere in the FCOM or FCTM where it states we're supposed to say "QNH", although it is a good idea.


4. Does anyone know of a book that uses the latest Airbus procedures that explains everything in a neat, organized, coherent way?

Sometimes I think I should give up being a pilot and instead make my money writing an Airbus manual that's more... how can I put it.... pilot friendly.

compressor stall
14th Jan 2019, 12:58
4. Does anyone know of a book that uses the latest Airbus procedures that explains everything in a neat, organized, coherent way?

.

It’s called the FCOM and FCTM. For anything not in there, it’s a company thing. Refer to your ops manual.

CaptainGrizzly
14th Jan 2019, 13:02
1. Why is "After Takeoff /Climb" checklist written that way?

Because it's a checklist for After Take off, and during Climb

Does Airbus intend us to say "After Takeoff Climb Checklist"?

Yes


2. Parking Brake As Required

Does Airbus want us to say "Set" or "On" if the Parking brake is indeed on.

Airbus callouts use 'Set' and 'Released'.

3. Baro Ref Challenge

One of my instructors insisted we respond with, for example, "QNH 1011 Set".

Note the "QNH" addition, but I can't find anywhere in the FCOM or FCTM where it states we're supposed to say "QNH", although it is a good idea.

I believe there is an option for setting QFE as well using the Baro knob; that may be the reason this is emphasized upon.

4. Does anyone know of a book that uses the latest Airbus procedures that explains everything in a neat, organized, coherent way?

The FCOM itself :}

Sometimes I think I should give up being a pilot and instead make my money writing an Airbus manual that's more... how can I put it.... pilot friendly.

vilas
14th Jan 2019, 13:40
Parking Brake As Required whether Airbus or Boeing when there is a dual/multiple possibility of action the check list always mentiones as required. But it is never the actual response. The response must be what is actual position i.e. ON or Off. For Baro referrance call, a mere SET response is inadequate because PF and PNF could be on different settings. So QNH1011SET or standard SET would remove any ambiguity.

slate100
14th Jan 2019, 14:36
whether Airbus or Boeing when there is a dual/multiple possibility of action the check list always mentiones as required. But it is never the actual response. The response must be what is actual position i.e. ON or Off. For Baro referrance call, a mere SET response is inadequate because PF and PNF could be on different settings. So QNH1011SET or standard SET would remove any ambiguity.

I appreciate all that, but I'm looking for a specific reference in the FCTM/FCOM where it explicitly states that you would say "QNH" in front of the value. My instructor was adamant about saying QNH, but if it's not in the FCOM/FCTM then it's just his own personal thing.

compressor stall
14th Jan 2019, 15:22
if it's not in the FCOM/FCTM then it's just his own personal thing.

As I said, that is not an Airbus prescribed call, if anywhere it will be in your Ops Manual.

Personally, (if it’s not written in the ops manual) and he’s hung up on saying QNH (which is preceded by a call to set QNH anyway) your instructor has a firm grasp of the non essentials. Be happy that he’s got nothing else to pick you up on.

safelife
14th Jan 2019, 15:25
Don't forget the / in there.
It's called "after takeoff diagonal climb checklist"!
:}

flash8
14th Jan 2019, 16:30
Personally, (if it’s not written in the ops manual) and he’s hung up on saying QNH (which is preceded by a call to set QNH anyway) your instructor has a firm grasp of the non essentials. Be happy that he’s got nothing else to pick you up on. My sentiments exactly!

oicur12.again
14th Jan 2019, 18:00
"Personally, (if it’s not written in the ops manual) and he’s hung up on saying QNH (which is preceded by a call to set QNH anyway) your instructor has a firm grasp of the non essentials."

Until you accidently set QFE instead of QNH.

TheEdge
14th Jan 2019, 19:02
"Personally, (if it’s not written in the ops manual) and he’s hung up on saying QNH (which is preceded by a call to set QNH anyway) your instructor has a firm grasp of the non essentials."

Until you accidently set QFE instead of QNH.
So far i only saw a kazakhstan A320 with the option to set QFE....

FlightDetent
14th Jan 2019, 23:01
Have to disagree with compressorstall slightly. The OEM book does not specify whether or not to say it.

When one size-fits-all guidance is impossible, Airbus need to provide a wider solution. So that different techniques can be used without going against the book or having to modify it. I think that's exactly what we see in the C/L layout.

There is a reason they changed the display on PFD at one stage, and the QNH is painted with the color blue. While verbalizing the letters is unnecessary and thus wrong (as opposed to simply not correct) at some places, elsewhere it might be crucial.

Similar to BARO / MDA / MDH in the minima box of FMA.

tubby linton
14th Jan 2019, 23:11
So far i only saw a kazakhstan A320 with the option to set QFE....
Some of the WOW A321 that had come from a Russian airline also had it. They also had working foot heaters-lovely

RUMBEAR
15th Jan 2019, 00:34
As other posters point out I don’t think Airbus really care of the actual word used in many situations. ( aside from those specially published in the FCOM )Park Brake “set” or “On” conveys the meaning equally. If an Airline wishes to have a more specific response then they can publish it.

This is very similar to FMA callouts. Airbus say we must callout all mode changes. However what words do we use, LOC or LOCALIZER ? ALT STAR or ALT CAPTURE, CLB ( pronounced CLIB ) or CLIMB.? The reality is we must callout out to ensure common understanding of the current guidance modes, the exact words have secondary importance.

hans brinker
15th Jan 2019, 04:34
As I said, that is not an Airbus prescribed call, if anywhere it will be in your Ops Manual.

Personally, (if it’s not written in the ops manual) and he’s hung up on saying QNH (which is preceded by a call to set QNH anyway) your instructor has a firm grasp of the non essentials. Be happy that he’s got nothing else to pick you up on.


Awesome!!!

FlightDetent
15th Jan 2019, 05:41
The difference between QFE and QNH can be quite serious, not so fast Hans.

compressor stall
15th Jan 2019, 06:00
Regarding QFE, yes there is benefit in stating QNH/QFE but for such operations procedures and instructions would be in your ops manual. My comments were prefaced with if it’s not in your ops manual.

FlightDetent
15th Jan 2019, 08:18
QNH ops on an aircraft equipped with the QFE option is what I had in mind. To make sure you did not set QFE by mistake, which is ergonomically rather simple slip of a finger.

Some people need just to set the value, others both the number and its reference. The latter crowd might find it very useful to announce the QNH/ QFE (in blue on PFD) during the checklist response.

The design: ...... _ _ _ _ _ _ SET allows for both.

hikoushi
15th Jan 2019, 08:51
FWIW it is in our (relatively unmolested) FCOM in the “standard call outs” section under Standard Operating Procedure. Both in the call outs for passing transition altitude / level, and in the FAF callout.

Flo121142
15th Jan 2019, 11:40
As other posters point out I don’t think Airbus really care of the actual word used in many situations. ( aside from those specially published in the FCOM )Park Brake “set” or “On” conveys the meaning equally. If an Airline wishes to have a more specific response then they can publish it.

This is very similar to FMA callouts. Airbus say we must callout all mode changes. However what words do we use, LOC or LOCALIZER ? ALT STAR or ALT CAPTURE, CLB ( pronounced CLIB ) or CLIMB.? The reality is we must callout out to ensure common understanding of the current guidance modes, the exact words have secondary importance.

Concerning FMA Callouts, there can be indeed misunderstandings. In the beginning of my career while working in Asia, I pronounced G/S* "Gee S Star"...I was quite surprised when the Captain put the gear down at this stage, until I figured out that he somehow misunderstood my "Gee S Star" as Gear down...thereafter I changed my callout to the long version "Glide Slope Star" (I still use "Loc Star" though as there is no potential for misunderstanding here). However the FCOM is not very clear on how FMA changed should actually be announced.

FlightDetent
15th Jan 2019, 13:03
FWIW it is in our (relatively unmolested) FCOM in the “standard call outs” section under Standard Operating Procedure. Both in the call outs for passing transition altitude / level, and in the FAF callout. Not in the OEM edition. Speaking of the C/L response, not the command to re-set itself.

hans brinker
15th Jan 2019, 17:44
The difference between QFE and QNH can be quite serious, not so fast Hans.



You are absolutely right, and my company callout includes "QNH" (and we don't operate with QFE), I just thought his specific phrasing was very funny.

FlightDetent
15th Jan 2019, 20:37
Guilty as charged HB, pardon me doubting then. Out of interest, given your "theatre" could your outfit actually do without it?

Murky side story: there is a HW/SW configuration of quite a few airframes, where for a LNAV+VNAV managed app mode executed with QNH you need to set (M)DH into the FMS for all things to work. While with the same ship, on a non-VNAV apch, (M)DA goes into the box.

Boyington
16th Jan 2019, 09:49
After Takeoff/ Cimb Checklist is used after Take off and after a Go Around.
In the first case it is called "After takeoff Checklist" and "Climb Checklist" in case of Go Around. Note the diagonal (/) in it.

hans brinker
16th Jan 2019, 16:36
Guilty as charged HB, pardon me doubting then. Out of interest, given your "theatre" could your outfit actually do without it?

Murky side story: there is a HW/SW configuration of quite a few airframes, where for a LNAV+VNAV managed app mode executed with QNH you need to set (M)DHinto the FMS for all things to work. While with the same ship, on a non-VNAV apch, (M)DA goes into the box.

We fly from between the Canadian border to Peru, with Bogota being the highest elevation (of the top of my head), AFAIK QFE is mostly former USSR, China? but no place we fly to.

We set DA for all vertical guided approaches (ILS, LNAV/VNAV), and a DDA (derived decision alt = MDA +50') for all non vetical guided approaces, and fly them all similar to an ILS as far as not leveling at the MDA anymore, but flying a 3deg path to the DA/DDA and GA if the required visual contact isn't there. Which things wouldn't work if you didn't set MDH?

AviatoR21
17th Jan 2019, 14:22
In regards to the Parking Brake query, take a look at the Emergency Evacuation checklist. The first item is Parking Brake On - There can only be 2 settings (On/Off) as per the pedestal in which we set the Park Brake. Airbus FCOM only stipulate Park Brake - Set after initial push back! I believe Airbus rely that as professionals we can distinguish the reasons why and not be spoon fed everything.

Boyington
18th Jan 2019, 08:52
In regards to the Parking Brake query, take a look at the Emergency Evacuation checklist. The first item is Parking Brake On - There can only be 2 settings (On/Off) as per the pedestal in which we set the Park Brake. Airbus FCOM only stipulate Park Brake - Set after initial push back! I believe Airbus rely that as professionals we can distinguish the reasons why and not be spoon fed everything.
Parking Brake ' On' is the position , but when the status of the Parking Brake is communicated it has to be "Set" and "Released" as "On" and "Off" sound similar and can create confusion.

vilas
18th Jan 2019, 10:53
Parking Brake ' On' is the position , but when the status of the Parking Brake is communicated it has to be "Set" and "Released" ON and OFF is airbus SOP terminology between CM1 CM2. SET and RELEASED is used while communicating with ground crew. They don't read SOPs anyway and maybe as you say to avoid confusion.

psychomantic
18th Jan 2019, 13:40
1. Why is "After Takeoff /Climb" checklist written that way?

Does Airbus intend us to say "After Takeoff Climb Checklist"?


2. Parking Brake As Required

Does Airbus want us to say "Set" or "On" if the Parking brake is indeed on.


3. Baro Ref Challenge

One of my instructors insisted we respond with, for example, "QNH 1011 Set".

Note the "QNH" addition, but I can't find anywhere in the FCOM or FCTM where it states we're supposed to say "QNH", although it is a good idea.


4. Does anyone know of a book that uses the latest Airbus procedures that explains everything in a neat, organized, coherent way?

Sometimes I think I should give up being a pilot and instead make my money writing an Airbus manual that's more... how can I put it.... pilot friendly.
check FCOM PRO-NOR-SOP-90 P 9/12 Altimeter setting changes to/from QNH/QFE-STD. Probably you didn't read the FCOM

hans brinker
18th Jan 2019, 19:01
check FCOM PRO-NOR-SOP-90 P 9/12 Altimeter setting changes to/from QNH/QFE-STD. Probably you didn't read the FCOM

Why don't you quote that chapter?

AviatoR21
19th Jan 2019, 04:54
Parking Brake ' On' is the position , but when the status of the Parking Brake is communicated it has to be "Set" and "Released" as "On" and "Off" sound similar and can create confusion.


I agree, but aren’t we talking about a checklist response here? Not when it is communicated to ground crew? If you want to be pedantic the word ‘Set’ could mean either ‘On/Off’.

Boyington
19th Jan 2019, 06:04
The 'On' and 'Off' markings near the Parking Brake lever is just like the 'Up' and 'Down" markings near the Landing Gear Lever.

But the calls as mentioned in the Standard Callouts on the FCOMs are 'Set' and 'Released' for the Parking Brakes. When we need to raise or lower the landing gear, we command "Gear Up" or "Gear Down" and not "Up" or "Down". For that matter there is no "Up" , "Down", "On" or "Off" callouts mentioned in the SOP.

pineteam
19th Jan 2019, 07:12
ON and OFF is airbus SOP terminology between CM1 CM2. SET and RELEASED is used while communicating with ground crew. They don't read SOPs anyway and maybe as you say to avoid confusion.

We do exactly as you mentionned.

AviatoR21
19th Jan 2019, 08:46
FCTM - Normal Checklist answers all your questions. When responding to a checklist item “AS REQD” you must call the real condition or configuration of the system. So in this case “Park Brake - Set” in my opinion is wrong!

Housekeeping
19th Jan 2019, 09:10
Back to the question of QNH terminology, our company just changed the Before Start, Climb and Descent checklists to have us say: "Baro Ref XX.XX Crosschecked." No reason given for the change, and it's not being well received. FCOM Controls and Indicators describes the window as the "Barometer Reference Display Window," but if we take that logic to the extreme, there are some pretty silly checklist designs around the corner.

FlightDetent
19th Jan 2019, 17:46
Which things wouldn't work if you didn't set MDH? (overdue reply) If you did not set MDH, the machine would remove the FD's and disconnect AP at MDA + ELEV. Applies to old QFE machines. https://i.postimg.cc/157RWMT0/IMG-0320.png

It is an oddity by all accounts, but the number of airframes is not negligible. The connection to a part of this thread above is that to discover it needs to be done, your best lead is the "MDH" label in MCDU and in FMA's minima box. Thus it might be prudent to read the "BARO" or "MDA" or "MDH" whilst running the C/L. Just like the QNH / QFE prefix - for some operators.

Not for QFE ops, but for QNH ops with a QFE enabled machine. Apparently, the old ones are actually QFE hardwired with QNH functions on top of the basic circuitry.

The point being made with regards to C/L responses is that it is not defined by the manufacturer and IMHO better staying that way.

hans brinker
19th Jan 2019, 18:53
(overdue reply) If you did not set MDH, the machine would remove the FD's and disconnect AP at MDA + ELEV. Applies to old QFE machines. https://i.postimg.cc/157RWMT0/IMG-0320.png

It is an oddity by all accounts, but the number of airframes is not negligible. The connection to a part of this thread above is that to discover it needs to be done, your best lead is the "MDH" label in MCDU and in FMA's minima box. Thus it might be prudent to read the "BARO" or "MDA" or "MDH" whilst running the C/L. Just like the QNH / QFE prefix - for some operators.

Not for QFE ops, but for QNH ops with a QFE enabled machine. Apparently, the old ones are actually QFE hardwired with QNH functions on top of the basic circuitry.

The point being made with regards to C/L responses is that it is not defined by the manufacturer and IMHO better staying that way.

Thanks for the reply. I remember reading an OB/OEB about that when I was new, but on our fleet all reference to the AP disconnecting at mins have been removed, not sure if because of updated software or retired hardware. I will look MDH in the MCDU to see if I can find any.

Escape Path
20th Jan 2019, 22:55
Thanks for the reply. I remember reading an OB/OEB about that when I was new, but on our fleet all reference to the AP disconnecting at mins have been removed, not sure if because of updated software or retired hardware. I will look MDH in the MCDU to see if I can find any.

On our fleet, limitation for autopilot disengagement was “applicable minimums”. It was changed to 250’ a while ago.

By the way, on older aircraft if you enter a baro minima instead a radio one on an ILS approach the minima box will read “MDA” which is wrong for a precision approach, so don’t trust Airbus word by word.

Regarding the parking brake, I just checked my FCOM and it says the response is off/on, even when communicating with ground crew. I hate to nitpick over banalities such as brakes set/on (there are things far more important and relevant that are misunderstood or done incorrectly on a daily basis), but if I may join, on the pedestal writing it says “off/on”. So guess what?