Slingsby Type 31/ Cadet TX Mk.3

[DaveUnwin]

In the current issue of Pilot magazine I postulate that "it is quite possible that the T-31 (known within the Services as the Cadet TX Mk.3 or Tandem Tutor, has introduced more people to flight – and certainly solo flight -than any other British-built aircraft." So my question is, how many of you did go solo (or take your first ever flight where you handled the controls) in a -31?

[jimjim1]

Sedbergh TX.1 for me. (Slingsby T.21)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingsby_T.21
Number built ca. 226

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingsby_Tandem_TutorNumber built ca. 230

Surely can't have been much in it in terms of first solos?

[sealo0]

Hi

The T21 was my first ride and Solo. Under the guise of Daisy the Air Scouts Glider at Lasham. Solo on the 8th Sept 1963!!

Mike

[3wheels]

Sedbergh TX.1 for me. (Slingsby T.21)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingsby_T.21
Number built ca. 226

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingsby_Tandem_TutorNumber built ca. 230

Surely can't have been much in it in terms of first solos?

The vast majority of first solos were done on the T 31 (Mk3). Only those too large for the Mk3 were trained on the T21. Some sites only used T21s because of their small size. Obviously they sent all their cadets solo in the Barge.

The T21s main role was Air experience flying.

[Bergerie1]

Slingsby T21 in 1958

[DaveUnwin]

Thanks All. I thought the T.21 would run the -31 a close second! My reasoning for the -31 is based on the fact the RAF had more 31s than 21s. It took delivery of 126 Cadet TX Mk.3s between 1951 and 1959, and operated them up to around 1986, and as most of those flew well in excess of 25,000 flights each (of which the vast majority were air experience flights) I think that just the Air Cadets’ TX Mk.3s flew in excess of three million launches! There were also quite a few civilian ones. Impressively, an ATC Mk.3 is on record as having logged a staggering 120,000 launches!

[ex82watcher]

First flight at age 15 on 19.8.72 in T21 WB924 RAF Ternhill.First flight in T31 XA292 on 16/9/72.First solo 24.6.73 in T31 XN242. Just 9 days after my 16th birthday.

[MPN11]

Cadet Mk. 3, No. 1 Gliding Centre, Hawkinge. Age 15.9 :)
1st dual winch 14 Aug 61
1st solo winch 18 Aug 61

https://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm468/atco5473/PPRuNe%20ATC/CroydonAirWing.jpg

[3wheels]

Thanks All. I thought the T.21 would run the -31 a close second! !

In terms of sending cadets solo the T21 was nowhere near a close second! I sent many hundreds of cadets sold on the T 31 but only a handful on the T21.

The other reason was that we had retrieve trolleys for the T31 which was a much smaller glider. Although we could just about
get a T 21 on the thing the process was frowned upon and often did damage to the trailer because of the extra weight.

So the T 31 won hands down. At least where I instructed it did!

[DaveUnwin]

Thanks 3wheels, all interesting stuff. I did actually write "or take your first ever flight where you handled the controls" (my first ever flight was in a -21) but it does certainly look like the 31 wins the 'First Solo' prize!

[CAEBr]

Soloed on the T31 at Spitalgate, around 1973 I think it was.

[oxenos]

1960-61, did all my dual in a T 21, but was sent solo in a Tutor Mk II. At that time the T21 was only normally flown with two up, and only later was it modified to have a ballast block fitted in the nose, so that it could be used solo.. Having said "normally flown two up", I do recall it being flown once with one pilot and a tea urn strapped into the other seat. No doubt highly illegal.

[Brookmans Park]

T31 for me in1960 ISTR that the official nose ballast bomb for solo flight did not come in for a couple of years after that.I never liked it much the glider felt too light and seemed to float around not fly as nicely as when two up

[PDR1]

Did my A&Bs as an ATC cadet on both T21s and T31s at Tangmere in the mid 70s (solo'd in both). Put down for a soaring course but never managed to get one (places on the soaring courses were like hens's teeth). Then went on to do a flying scholarship on Beagle Pups at Biggen, which I extended to get my PPL a few weeks later.

PDR

[ShotOne]

Cadet Mk3 at RM Condor, Arbroath. Interestingly (or not!) it was the convention then to address the pilot (even a 16yr old Air Cadet) as “Sir” -a form of address which almost never comes my way now in the left seat of an A330.

[Fitter2]

Cadet Mk III WT919, Kirton Lindsey March 7th 1960. The start of almost 59 years (and still counting) gliding.

ShotOne reminded me as being addressed as Sir when asking for 'wing up for checks, take up slack etc.' Nearly as much of a surprise as being addressed as Mr 'F2' on my first job interview at around the same time.

First flight, Avro Anson at Colerne, aged 13;first time handling the aircraft, AEF Chipmunk, RAF Yeadon (now Leeds/Bradford Airport) aged 14

[Imagegear]

Soloed on T21 at Lindholme, 1967. Just in time to get posted out.

Re-Soloed on T21 at Locking 1970

IG

[Border Reiver]

First solo T21 with South Yorkshire Air Activities section of the Scouts RAF Lindholm 1978. 20,000 hours later I never get called sir!

[spekesoftly]

The vast majority of first solos were done on the T 31 (Mk3). Only those too large for the Mk3 were trained on the T21.




In the mid 1960s at 631 GS RAF Sealand I think we had an equal number of T31s and T21s (3 of each ?). Although I did most of my gliding and first solo in the Sedbergh, I don't recall my size being a factor. I was average height and weight ..... and like to think that I still am! ;) During my time at 631 I also flew the Mk3, including some solos.

[diginagain]

Mk III, Serial number lost in the mists of time, and whatever dragon under the bed that ate my 3822. RAF Syerston some time in the mid 1970. First solo.
They say the first time is always the best, but solo-ing Chipmunk, Gazelle and then Lynx were pretty good too.

[TEEEJ]

I went solo on T-31B Cadet TX.3, serial WT906, 26th October 1980 at Kirknewton. I remember it like it was yesterday. Happy days!

Nice to see that WT906 is still about as G-BRVJ (Motorised)

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1626507

[chevvron]

First 3 solos in Mk3 XA305 at 613 GS Halton on 7 Nov 1964; they were my 9th, 10th and 11th launches that day having done 6 (with 2 practice cable breaks) with an instructor then 2 check flights with Jacko, the CO.
I don't know if it was standard procedure at all schools but normally, all cadets doing 'proficiency' training (as it was called in those days) at 613 were given 3 trips in the side by side T21b Sedbergh to learn primary and further effects of controls, watching how the instructor handled the controls then trying it yourself, then if you were deemed to be of suitable size you 'converted' to the Mk3 and did the rest of your proficiency training (apart from stalls and spins; not allowed to intentionally spin the Mk3 so you didn't stall it either just in case the stall developed into a spin) on that; too big or heavy and you stayed on the Sedbergh until you soloed with the 'bomb' installed in the nose of the aircraft.
Before going solo, I did 12 launches total in the Sedbergh and 23 in the Mk3. Yes I know many did it quicker but I was only a 'weekender' thus the first one or two launches of the weekend were to go over what I had done the previous weekend so having commenced on the first weekend after my 16th birthday, I soloed just over a month after it.

[ValMORNA]

Mid 1940's, RAF Kenley. Kirby Cadet - solo was the only thing available! (Yes, I know, I know, wrong forum . . . .). But thought you'd like to know, there were some good thermals from the pig farm in Caterham valley.

[BlackIsle]

First flight - Air Experience in a Wessex at Odiham age 13 1968. First flight where given controls - Chipmunk at White Waltham 1969. First solo - Cadet Mark 3 at Halton 1971 aged 16 :)

[Out Of Trim]

Mid 1970s Kenley, Kirby Cadet Mk3 - First ever flight in anything and had a cable break at about 300Ft AGL It was a very short flight! Couldn't believe the climb angle whilst being winched. I got another 2 or 3 launches later that afternoon. The last trip being in a Sedbergh.

For some reason, our ATC Flight from New Malden didn't get to do much gliding. :hmm:

[longer ron]

As Chevvron posted - certainly by the mid/late 60's it was quite normal to give each cadet 2 or 3 trips in a T21 to learn primary and further effects of controls and therefore being able to see how the instructor handled the controls.
The vast majority of cadets would have done the bulk of their training and go solo in the T31/Mk3.
As 3wheels posted - with the Mk3 flights we used the retrieve trolleys to whip the cadet back to the launch point (still strapped into the seat) and they would be off on their next trip in no time :)

For me 1st solo with 644 GS at Spitalgate in the summer of '69 (someone should write a song with that title LOL).
I later joined the staff at 613 GS Halton (1970-72) and used to chuckle at the cadets calling me 'Sir' - at that time I was a Corporal Crafty Apprentice and greatly enjoyed taking cadets up for Air Experience Flights.

[bobward]

My first ever flight was in a Cadet Mk 3 at RAF Swanton Morley in 1966. First solo in the Mk 3 February 1968. I can still remember the pre take off checks (CISTRS) as taught back then.
Happy days, sliding across a snowy airfield in an open top glider. Thanks to everyone at 611 VGS who made it happen for me and hundreds like me.

[chevvron]

For me 1st solo with 644 GS at Spitalgate in the summer of '69 (someone should write a song with that title LOL).

A bloke on the WRAF training depot; how did you pull that?

[chevvron]

As Chevvron posted - certainly by the mid/late 60's it was quite normal to give each cadet 2 or 3 trips in a T21 to learn primary and further effects of controls and therefore being able to see how the instructor handled the controls.
The vast majority of cadets would have done the bulk of their training and go solo in the T31/Mk3.
As 3wheels posted - with the Mk3 flights we used the retrieve trolleys to whip the cadet back to the launch point (still strapped into the seat) and they would be off on their next trip in no time :)

When I had got a lot of air experience flights under my belt as a P2 (G1 nowadays) I was tasked with doing these initial flights probably with a view to my becoming a 'C' Cat. Managed to avoid that by leaving school and getting a job away from the area.

[pulse1]

First three solos in a Mk3 at RAF St Athan in about 1957. Started instructing in them about 12 years later at RAF Old Sarum. Last flew one about 3 years ago at Hullavington with the Vintage Gliding Group.

[Buster11]

After a few familiarisation flights in a Sedbergh, first solo in a T-31 after several launches with the late great Derek Piggott as instructor, at HCGIS Detling in 1952.

[Tocsin]

T31 at Spitalgate in 1974 for me. I remember the daily charge was 9p, so for an eleven day course to solo I paid the grand total of 99p. I therefore could say I learnt to fly for less than a pound! Can't give any more details on dates and serials as I'm away from home doing stuff at Wyton (where messing and PAYD charges are somewhat greater...)

[ex82watcher]

My first ever flight was in a Cadet Mk 3 at RAF Swanton Morley in 1966. First solo in the Mk 3 February 1968. I can still remember the pre take off checks (CISTRS) as taught back then.
Happy days, sliding across a snowy airfield in an open top glider. Thanks to everyone at 611 VGS who made it happen for me and hundreds like me.


Ah yes,I remember that was the mnemonic in 1972,but a couple of years later ISTR it was changed to CBSITCB.

[uffington sb]

I did three solo trips in a Mk 3 at RAF South Cernry in the late sixties.
cant remember the serial numbers.

[longer ron]

A bloke on the WRAF training depot; how did you pull that?
It was a tough gig but somebody had to do it :)

It was my closest gliding unit - we lived in peterborough at that time (yuk !!)

[uffington sb]

Oi, I live in Peterborough.
Agreed ‘yuk’!

[longer ron]

Ah yes,I remember that was the mnemonic in 1972,but a couple of years later ISTR it was changed to CBSITCB.

I think it changed to CBSITCB circa 1971 (At Air Cadet Gliding Schools).

It then changed to CBSIFTCB (Flaps)
Then later 'E' was added (Eventualities)
I have very recently returned to gliding after a long break and the one thing I was confident that I could remember was CBSIFTCBE.
Well blow me down they changed it the day before my first flight :) - ok that put paid to me sounding confident with pre flight checks :)
It is currently CBSIFTBEC
Controls/Ballast/Straps/Instruments/Flaps/Trim/Brakes/Eventualities/Canopy

[chevvron]

Ah yes,I remember that was the mnemonic in 1972,but a couple of years later ISTR it was changed to CBSITCB.
I was taught CISTRS with Air Cadets but did a day at Lasham in '66 where they used CBSITCB, apparently a BGA standard term.
Later at Halton (1990s) we used CBSITCBE on the microlights, the 'E' being check engine instruments.

[Olympia463]

First flight in a T31. First solo in a T31. First flight as instructor in a T31 (in 1964).

[chevvron]

Course if Air Cadets had kept the Mk3 going, Air Cadet gliding wouldn't be in the mess it is now.
Low performance, easy to maintain, perfect for getting as many people solo in as short a time as possible so they could wear their gliding badge on their uniform.
Did anyone hear about how a sheep got killed by one at Gaydon?

[ex82watcher]

I had a couple of air experience flights at Gaydon in '72or'73,but didn't hear anything about a sheep.

[jimjim1]

The vast majority of first solos were done on the T 31 (Mk3). Only those too large for the Mk3 were trained on the T21. Some sites only used T21s because of their small size. Obviously they sent all their cadets solo in the Barge.

The T21s main role was Air experience flying.


Thanks.

I guess I extrapolated from my personal experience without justification?

I was at Ouston for the A & B certificate and they operated only the T.21 for the few days (5?) I was there. Unfortunately :) we were not able to finish and I only did one solo. I then went elsewhere a few months later and did another entire A & B course on the T.31 Tandem Tutor.

The T.31 had a much inferior glide ratio and I seem to recall that circuits lasted barely three minutes as opposed to almost five for the T.21 Sedbergh. On an early T.31 landing the instructor was horrified when I gently extended the spoilers to (quite appropriately I thought) steepen the descent as I had been instructed on the T.21. There was no drama and as I recall, after I landed I was asked "Did I tell you to use the spoilers?". I was told not to use them again.

[chevvron]

I had a couple of air experience flights at Gaydon in '72or'73,but didn't hear anything about a sheep.
Could have been later; 637 moved to Little Rissington in '77 when Gaydon closed and that's where I heard the tale in '91.

[ExMaintainer]

During my time at the RAF Cosford Gliding Club, we only had a T21, so we all started on this. I flew solo in the T21, as we all did, in the early to mid seventies. Happy Days.

[POBJOY]

As a 'basic' Ist solo machine the Mk3 has to be the all time winner due to its ability to allow 'non streamed' or 'selected' youngsters to attain that magic of solo flight, and all with an amazing safety record.
Its contribution to youth development is as important as its aviation aspect, and that it could do this with so little flight time has never been equalled.
My abiding memory is of the Cadets arriving at Kenley and having to sort out a pair of wellies from a mountain in the store.
Luckily we never had to suffer the stupid intercom mod or wearing of grinding goggles, and indeed the genuine mk8 (complete with extra set of tinted lens) were supposed to be for winch drivers use, but went well with a soapy hat if a photo was to be taken.
The basic lessons of the MK3 were a great start in aviation, and got you into an early requirement for decision making without a group conference.
I suspect that a 2019 squadron Cadet would have a far better experience in an original MK3 than his 'ride' in a plastic bath tub in a portacabin (PTT)
Trendy it was not, but by golly what a performer for youth development.

[CISTRS]

RAF Hornchurch

First instructional flight T21, date 28 May 1960
First three solos, T31, date 26 June 1960
BGA A&B / ATC Gliding Proficiency

What a great start in life for a youngster!

[rotorfossil]

First solo on T21 at Lasham. Flew T31 later Swinderby (East Midlands G C). Preferred the T21 as more time in the air.

[Flickhammer]

First solo in the "Barge" at the 4 Counties gliding club at Syerston. Much fun.
Any one remember Hamish taking off in the Barge with a pretty young thing, and spot landing 20 minutes later. Big smiles on both faces. It took us a while to realise he was wearing her t shirt and she his.

All clear above and behind.

[1.3VStall]

First solo in a Kirby Cadet Mk III (aka as a T.31) on my 23rd winch launch at RAF Spitalgate in May 1966. (I'm still flying nearly 53 years later!).

[DaveUnwin]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/39_2204_wt900_slingsby_t_31b_tandem_tutor_saltby_17_08_2018_ lead_0d2f7e6c8e95890b8400318365dd1935623ce9f6.jpg

A fine Keith Wilson image of the subject aircraft in this month's Pilot - anyone here ever fly WT900?

[DaveUnwin]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/39_2262_wt900_slingsby_t_31b_tandem_tutor_saltby_17_08_2018_ dps_lead_e57cce7a1f657eebef028aa162ff941e1a6892be.jpg

Another fine Keith Wilson pic of me demonstrating the far-from-stellar glide performance!

[Dan Winterland]

First flight T21 WB975 on 5 April 1980. First solo, T31 WT919 on 11 April 1980.

[Fitter2]

Hi Dan W

Good to see that in spite of the combined efforts of both of us, (and several hundred ATC cadets) that WT919 survived over 20 years of first solos (7/3/60 to 11/4/80)

And Dave U, my glide performance would have been better, since I provided less obstruction to the airflow ;)

[olddog]

First trip in a Cadet Mk3 Dec 62 at a very snowy Swanton Morley on a course with Jeff Naylor, Dougie King and Co. Weather meant that I had to complete the course at Hendon (617 GS). First solo 9 Jun 63. Therafter, a happy 3 years as a staff cadet and CI at Hendon and Bovingdon before joining the RAF in 1966 for a 39 year career.

I'm sure the ATC (which also provided me with a Flying Scholarship to PPL standard and an International Exchange to Canada), shaped my life!

[olddog]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/709x500/cgi_1966_936977056383f5f5fae6eb38930159d3a3522301.jpg
Hendon 1964/5

[DaveUnwin]

Ha ha ha! None taken Fitter! Seriously, thanks everyone for all the input - and I know we've all been saying it ad nauseam on the Air Cadets thread, but the old T.21s and T.31s really did change a lot of young people's lives. And what a great character-building exercise, to go solo in a week, and become the 'commander' of an aircraft at age 16 (even if only for three minutes at a time). Somehow, a simulator just isn't the same.

[olddog]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/469x375/cable_cut_dbb117b16592acbd1dfcdba444a1937ee0c083d8.jpg
617GS Hendon. Not a bad landing! A winch cable was dropping onto the glider and the winch operator was trying to reel it in at high speed.. Result an efficient saw!

[pontifex]

First flight ever was in a Miles Magister from Lympe in (I think) 1949. Dad paid for a quick round the airfield job whilst we were on hols at Sandgate. First solo in a T31 at Martlesham Heath. First real solo in 1956 in a Chipmunk in Canada.. Thems were the days!

[lowlypax]

First ever flight was an AES in a Chipmunk from Hamble. The Flight Lieutenant who did the safety briefing came into the room and announced, Tonight the target is Berlin". That got a huge laugh. I imagine that sort of humour is verboten now.

First solo was a T21 from Swanton Morely 4 days after my 16th birthday in 1973. Did 2 more that day to complete the A/B. I will never forget the thrill of that first flight or the nerves sitting there waiting for the cable to start to move. I was half way up the launch before I realised I was singing at the top of my voice. We had some great instructors on that course and I am very grateful to them for their patience.

[MPN11]

....
I'm sure the ATC (which also provided me with a Flying Scholarship to PPL standard and an International Exchange to Canada), shaped my life!Very similar to my 'flying start'. PPL at Kidlington and IACE to the USA (with C4 amongst others). Didn't he do well!!

[Krystal n chips]

" The T.31 had a much inferior glide ratio and I seem to recall that circuits lasted barely three minutes "

This is true, hence the reason after an impeccable...well I thought it was... first solo at Burtonwood, the second was more "interesting " in that, sinking earthwards rapidly, I reasoned I wasn't actually going to arrive back on the very long runway, as it still was, so decided to land on a ramp area.....containing xxxxx 45 gallon drums and sundry bits of metal / ground equip not entirely conducive to gliders.

The management arrived in a bit of a hurry, and were" less than complimentary" about my flying skills, but then changed their mind when I asked where they thought I should have landed and indeed praise, of a sort, followed. I am still awaiting my "Good Show " for this feat of airmanship at such a young age.

Thereafter, my liver and digestive system were exposed to the GSA.....along with a bit of gliding.

[Fortissimo]

First flight April 1970, Chipmunk, Cambridge AEF, insisted on being turned upside down.
First solo T-31 at RAF West Malling, August 1972, aged 16. My second solo was very short, a cable break at 200ft - I asked if I got to do that one again (because after the 3rd you went to the back of the priority list) and was told "No, you got airborne and landed again. That counts!".

It was West Malling where one of my contemporaries at school lost his father (a serving Wg Cdr) in a cable-break accident (1973). The nose-down pitch after the break didn't stop and they went in just past the vertical. It turned out the cadet in the front had a caliper on his leg and it was believed to have prevented aft stick being applied.

[Consulman]

Chevvron
Re the 'killing' of a sheep at Gaydon - it did not occur but a sheep was hit and had some wool taken off its back! This was the result of a keen young instructor concentrating too much on patter and not enough on positioning - had to scrape back and land in a partitioned field next to the runway, with the sheep jumping into the air between the struts!. This happened around 1974. I was the instructor and it was the start of a long career with the Air Cadets.
Incidentally I later became adjutant after the move to Little Rissington and kept records of courses. I seem to remember that we averaged 60-70 solos per year almost exclusively on the Mk III.

[spekesoftly]

In early 1965 I had three Air Experience flights in a Mk3, but I'm struggling to remember where they took place. My RAF Form 3822 records the glider number as 253, and at the time I was a member of 1166 (Welwyn Garden City) ATC Sqn. Would Halton have been the most likely?

[Pegpilot]

XN246, RAF Manston, summer 1977. 40 flights and 2 hr 26 minutes flying time before being let loose. XN246 still exists, dangling from the roof of Southampton Air Museum.
Happy days ! I now have a lovely ASW28, but I get the nagging feeling that I'm not having as much fun as I did in those carefree days !

[CBSITCB]

First solo in a Mk III in 1971 with 643 VGS at RAF Hemswell. By then it was definitely CBSITCB.

Later as a Staff Cadet I remember occasionally setting up the field solo shortly after dawn ready for the adult staff to arrive around 0800. Tow out the caravan and winch, and then a couple of Mk IIIs to the launch point.

Towing out the gliders single-handed without trolleys was a technique handed down from Staff Cadet to Staff Cadet. It involved giving the Rover a bit of choke for RPM (can’t remember which gear), letting out the clutch, then jumping out quickly and grabbing the wingtip. Once in the vicinity of the launch point drop the wing, quickly pull the release then dash for the Rover.

Looking back now it seems horrendous, but it always went smoothly with no dramas. Of course, back then at that age we didn’t really consider all the (many!) things that could have gone wrong. Most certainly not to be recommended…

It all inspired me to follow a (non-flying) aviation career. Had to wait until retirement to get my PPL(A) a few months ago – I have a lot of catching up to do!

[FL575]

Straight from ‘ATC Record of Service – Gliding Training’

4 Oct 59 Mk3 WT917 Self 4 min (624 Gliding School-Exeter Airport)

What is not recorded, is that our launches (by winch) were conducted around the take offs and landings of the DH Mosquitos of No 3 CAACU. They had priority.

A tiny digression. Shortly after this date, DH Vampires replaced the Mosquitos. At that time, one of the Gliding School vehicles was a wartime Bedford lorry (with canvas doors!) The lorry’s steering wheel was not fully connected to the steering column, and could be removed whilst driving. One of the young sons of an instructor used to drive this lorry, and one of his party tricks was to remove the steering wheel whilst driving around the peri-track and hand it to the front seat passenger and jokingly say,’here, you do the steering’.

Unfortunately, the Bedford was not over-endowed in the braking department, and one day, the inevitable happened. He handed the steering wheel over to a new cadet, and could not get it back on to the column before the lorry left the peri-track and careered into the side of one of the Vampires. As I recall, it was the Vampire COs favourite aircraft!

[Old-Duffer]

At South Cerney in the summer of 1960, I was less than the exceptional student and had an instructor called Mr Harding whose ability to teach me was either poor or he had a hopeless student (others opine it was the latter).

I took over 30 launches to get solo and suspect I was very close to the chop before the great day arrived (I left school on the Friday and went solo on the Saturday).

Before getting to that point, I had had a medical with a very harassed GP, who after checking my vision (top notch) asked if I was colour blind. Having just failed my colour test for a merchant navy cadet, I said "No Sir" and was passed.

At Biggin Hill three years later, there was no outsmarting the coloured dots and my glowing career as a navigator was ended before it started. Interestingly, at Ternhill, at a time when air signallers were taking over the duties of helicopter crewman from volunteer ground crew, nobody asked if I was colour blind and I was (I boastfully claim) the last member of ground crew to be trained as a crewman.

Old Duffer

[Innominate]

Like OD it took me 39 launches before my 3 solos; this was at Swanton Morley in May 1973. All were in Sedberghs (WB981 and 987) which - unusually - had canopies. I was apparently put into the T21 because I am left-handed, but in retrospect there may also have been a weight/size issue...

it was the convention then to address the pilot (even a 16yr old Air Cadet) as “Sir” My second and third solos were flown when the others were heading off to lunch, so the instructors did the ground handling. "Cable on, Sir" from an instructor was a further boost to my sense of achievement, subsequently deflated by my chum who had "borrowed" my beret because he "didn't think you were coming back" [for lunch].

Drifting slightly, my first ever flight was in Chipmunk WK640 on 13 April 1970 during Easter Camp at Waddington. The officer giving the mass brief on emergency drills concluded with something to the effect of "I've never had to bale out, and my only forced landing was due to my Wellington being damaged by a night fighter" which we all found very reassuring!

[chevvron]

We had a couple of Sedberghs at Halton with those canopies. We had the sloping rear panel removed and the 'fly' screens replaced so they could be flown without the canopies, otherwise it was difficult to teach the correct attitude (keep the top of the flyscreen on the horizon) and the aural cues to keeping the speed just right were denied to you.

[Innominate]

it was difficult to teach the correct attitude (keep the top of the flyscreen on the horizon) and the aural cues to keeping the speed just right were denied to you.
So THAT'S why it took me so long to solo! Nothing to do with my aptitude...

[POBJOY]

I remember that canopy for another reason. Attended Swanton as a staff cadet to do a glider inspection, and minor repair course. This was in the winter, but on Wednesday the barge was taken out for 'sports day trips'.
Yours truly was duly appointed to fly some of the victims, and this was my first sight of the multi panel locally made canopy (winter flying mod).All seemed ok until the lid was attached and we were launched..
Within seconds the damm contraption misted up (it was very cold) and off we went with me trying to maintain some sort of order looking out sideways.
Swanton was obstruction (and other aircraft) free, and is quite large compared with Kenley so I bumbled around and put her back on the spot quite relieved not to have to admit the rather limited vision, as after all it was P1 flying and one never refused that. After a few more trips I just got used to it so decided not to mention anything.

[wub]

Woodspring gliding club at Weston-Super-Mare had a T-21 with a canopy. During a launch one day, one side flew off and got trapped between the strut and the fuselage. The other side remained attached which caused all the crud in the bottom of the cockpit to be sucked off the floor and into P1’s eyes. An interesting circuit ensued, trying to see and at the same time not lose the errant canopy.

[rogerg]

I came off the winch launch one early morning and set up to return when I noticed the variometer was showing a climb. Must be my day I thought and I attempted to "thermal". It soon became obvious that I as not going up and I made a hasty return and just got back. The ball was stuck at the top of the glass tube due early morning moisture. I should have known that a T31 would not go up on a cold damp day! This was at RAF Waterbeach in the 60s All good fun tho.

[VX275]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/398x536/top_026_45b5efb4f815be7b48bd8d9fbe083449c68400c0.jpg
A nervous me trying to smile for the camera prior to my first ever winch launch October 9 1971 Cadet Mk 3 XE791 Mr Beaver Capt. RAF Burtonwood.
The first 4 minutes of what would become a total of 24 hrs 29 minutes flying in Mk 3 and Sedburghs.

[chevvron]

Chevvron
Re the 'killing' of a sheep at Gaydon - it did not occur but a sheep was hit and had some wool taken off its back! This was the result of a keen young instructor concentrating too much on patter and not enough on positioning - had to scrape back and land in a partitioned field next to the runway, with the sheep jumping into the air between the struts!. This happened around 1974. I was the instructor and it was the start of a long career with the Air Cadets.
Incidentally I later became adjutant after the move to Little Rissington and kept records of courses. I seem to remember that we averaged 60-70 solos per year almost exclusively on the Mk III.
At least that's clarified then; twas the instructor who supplied the minibus for the '91 summer course who told me and I remember him saying the sheep jumped into the path of the aircraft hitting the bracing wires; I was guest admin officer for that course and used that minibus to drive to Brize every day to collect evening fodder.

[Prangster]

Hairy solos late February 1965 with snow showers blotting out the airfield for minutes on end. On third launch despite dumping cable as soon as the first flecks of cloud whipped past managed to find myself between two layers. Boys into men PDQ

[DaveUnwin]

Thanks All for the fabulous reminiscences - towing gliders out solo, and with no one even in the car! Launching kids on early solos into snow showers! It really was a different world back then!!

[DaveUnwin]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/39_2260_wt900_slingsby_t_31b_tandem_tutor_saltby_17_08_2018_ lead_ad6423252d1fbe165a2840a729369fc940e92a5f.jpg

Thought some of you might enjoy a close-up A2A. As you may well appreciate, close formation in a T.31 is not easy!

[chevvron]

Perhaps if you'd kept the spoilers closed, the photo aircraft would have had a better chance.
One day at Halton I was doing AEG in a Mk3 flying from the front seat (hadn't yet been checked out for back seat) and I found I could easily spot land by turning final a bit high then opening the spoilers and doing an almost vertical descent, closing the spoliers about 5 feet up and using ground effect to float back to the launch point; cadet out, another one in, cable on and away again.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Dave.

Nice !

Note the wool tuff is straight back indicating co-ordinated flight. This is the mark of a proficient pilot as the tendency for inexperienced pilots is to unconsciously yaw away from lead.


The best way to maintain your line when flying formation in a glider is for the lead to set up a glide so that you need a little spoiler to maintain position. That way if you fall back you close the spoiler and if you are moving up you add more spoiler

[Ant T]

First solo, Mk3, July 1976, RAF West Malling, after 19 dual launches (19 x 3 minute circuits - 57 minutes to solo!!)
Still remember talking to myself out loud all the way round.

[Capt Beaky]

615 VGS still (I think) holds the world record for training launches (on the longest day of the year) - 615 launches using three MkIII and two T21b... Clive Watson organised the dawn to dusk event, a rota enabled staffing with rest periods etc. We built up to “the longest day” with a couple of practice days.i don’t recall any breakages... My contribution on “the longest day” to the total? 42 launches...

[DaveUnwin]

Thanks Big Pistons - you've saved me having to explain to Chevron the subtleties of flying formation in a sailplane!

[treadigraph]

What was the camera ship Dave?

[DaveUnwin]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/40_6331_lunak_lf_107_om_0973_saltby_06_11_2017_dps_lead_baba 4453246e28962295084a0d5a51f53cb813de.jpg

How about this one BP? Just a hint of brake so I can easily cope with both overtake and undertake.

[DaveUnwin]

The BGC's EuroFox Treaders - ably flown by a mate who used to instruct on Phantoms and Tornados. He always flies a nice smooth lead and I do my best to follow. Its not that easy, because if either of us cock it up the rejoin takes time, time I usually don't have (and - as you can imagine -particularly in the T.31!)

[DaveUnwin]

Captain Beaky, if I were wearing a hat I'd take it off! Bravo Zulu.

[Blackfriar]

Thanks.

I guess I extrapolated from my personal experience without justification?

I was at Ouston for the A & B certificate and they operated only the T.21 for the few days (5?) I was there. Unfortunately :) we were not able to finish and I only did one solo. I then went elsewhere a few months later and did another entire A & B course on the T.31 Tandem Tutor.

The T.31 had a much inferior glide ratio and I seem to recall that circuits lasted barely three minutes as opposed to almost five for the T.21 Sedbergh. On an early T.31 landing the instructor was horrified when I gently extended the spoilers to (quite appropriately I thought) steepen the descent as I had been instructed on the T.21. There was no drama and as I recall, after I landed I was asked "Did I tell you to use the spoilers?". I was told not to use them again.

At Air Cadet Central Gliding School (ACCGS) RAF Syerston in the 70s we were taught to crack the spoilers open on the mark 3 on finals just in case, but it’s a big field with plenty of undershoot.

[treadigraph]

Thanks Dave!

(30 seconds in a club owned T-21 when I was about 6 or 7 - cable break! Can't recall going up in it again but may have done...)

[WE992]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1342/hf6_3e0c2872eade2d1b0fc30013b970e237e7b2b495.jpg
621 Historic Flight preserving our heritage for the next generation. Now active again at Sandhill Farm although this photo was taken at Hullavington.

[WE992]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1361/hf7_e643411d9c424de6049bd83c2ecf3a7e40e17a20.jpg
One from the other side with the "Royal Barge" taking prime position.

[sycamore]

Dave, easier if the one with power formats on you....but the ex-FJ pilots don`t like following...!

[DaveUnwin]

Great pics WE992 - fab fleet! Sycamore, take a good look at the pics above of both the 31 and the Lunak, and then explain how you think we could have got them if I was lead and the camera ship had side-by-side seating.

[Big Pistons Forever]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/40_6331_lunak_lf_107_om_0973_saltby_06_11_2017_dps_lead_baba 4453246e28962295084a0d5a51f53cb813de.jpg

How about this one BP? Just a hint of brake so I can easily cope with both overtake and undertake.

Nice to see a pro at work:)

[oldmansquipper]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/604x390/img_2003_0467cc296168f61ec54a713b7fe36a3bf1a2570d.jpg

First solo Kingsfield Dhekelia 69.

The more observant of you will note this picture is not of a solo flight......

[Bigpants]

T31 at RAF Swanton Morley c1974.

[chevvron]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/604x390/img_2003_0467cc296168f61ec54a713b7fe36a3bf1a2570d.jpg

First solo Kingsfield Dhekelia 69.

The more observant of you will note this picture is not of a solo flight......

No 'bomb' installed.! Although the CO at Halton (Jacko) sometimes flew a barge solo without one but then he was a BIG bloke.

[Prangster]

Having lost all my docs in a house move can anyone recall the moves and swerves between 643 and 644. Hazy memory tells me I soloed 643 at Kirton ? with 644 based at Hemswell. Subsequent moves were to Spitalgate and Syerston but I can't recall who went where. Answers on a post card please I recall one mad day when someone decided to try 3 MK3's in formation.It went something like this. All four cables down, three gliders hooked on. All outs on outer cables with a 10 second lag, both climb as hard and high as they can. Third glider launches immediately falling cables hit ground. by now Nos 1 and 2 are downwind. No 3 aims Aims for 800-900ft tight turn downwind hopefully aiming to catch the two already in loose formation. I was only visiting. It never worked and no it wasn't my idea

[chevvron]

Kirton was briefly No 2 GC either before or after Spitalgate was (can't remember which was first) and before the two centres merged to form CGS at Syerston.
Before the merger No 1 GC had been at Swanton Morley since Jan 1962 after its former base at Hawkinge was closed, my brother having started one of the last courses to be held there but didn't solo there due weather so he finished at 613 Halton which was only 10 miles from our home.

[ATSA1]

I did my A +B at 618 GS West Malling, on the 7th May 1977.. 31 launches to solo.
Best 3x3 minutes of my life! Especially landing on the last one as it started to rain hard....open cockpits make rain quite painful!
The nest day, there was a Hangar flight going at close of play...I asked if I could sit in the back, as I had never been in the back of a Mk3.
"sure" he says..."I will take off, you can have it in the climb, when you release the cable, I will take it, and throw it around a bit"
"but you can't throw a Mk3 around!" says I...

"You wanna bet?"

[CBSITCB]

WE999 - great pictures! When did the colour scheme change? I don't recall the yellow scheme in my day (1969 - 1972) but that could just be my failing memory.

[wub]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/604x390/img_2003_0467cc296168f61ec54a713b7fe36a3bf1a2570d.jpg

First solo Kingsfield Dhekelia 69.

The more observant of you will note this picture is not of a solo flight......


Dont know if it’s the same barge but I flew a T21 solo at Kingsfield with a canvas bag full of stones and a couple of tyres as ballast, because the bomb had gone missing

[longer ron]

Having lost all my docs in a house move can anyone recall the moves and swerves between 643 and 644. Hazy memory tells me I soloed 643 at Kirton ? with 644 based at Hemswell. Subsequent moves were to Spitalgate and Syerston but I can't recall who went where. Answers on a post card please

Prangster - 644 went to Spitalgate

[chevvron]

Thanks Big Pistons - you've saved me having to explain to Chevron the subtleties of flying formation in a sailplane!
I only know that even that small amount of spoiler makes the Mk3 drop out of the sky at a high rate of knots!

[CBSITCB]

Having lost all my docs in a house move can anyone recall the moves and swerves between 643 and 644. Hazy memory tells me I soloed 643 at Kirton ? with 644 based at Hemswell.

Wikipedia entry about RAF Hemswell: "During 1967 the gliders of 643 gliding school Air Training Corps moved in from Kirton in Lindsey. No 643 GS operated from Hemswell until 1974, giving ATC cadets air experience and glider pilot training until moving to RAF Lindholme on 1 April 1974."

That accords with my own experience of 643 at Hemswell in the early 70's. 644 was never at that station. I remember visiting 643 at Lindholme as a 'visitor' in 1974.

[treadigraph]

WE992, love to see that fleet at Kenley one day - perhaps if - no, let's be positive - when 615 do get going again perhaps there could be some sort of celebration...

There was a T-21 with Surrey Hills but I haven't seen it for a while.

[Frelon]

Treadders, that one comes up from Southdown on special occasions👍

[longer ron]

WE992, love to see that fleet at Kenley one day - perhaps if - no, let's be positive - when 615 do get going again perhaps there could be some sort of celebration...

There was a T-21 with Surrey Hills but I haven't seen it for a while.

There used to be a privately owned T21 at Kenley,I had a couple of rides in it with one of the owners back in (1991/92 ?).

[treadigraph]

I would say it was within the last ten years that I've seen it - quite a strong northerly and it was nearly hovering over the winch! Swear I could hear the hinges creaking! :p

[BEagle]

Although I was a CCF Pongo (the school didn't have an RAF section), I soloed in the T21 with the RAFGSA, having also had some earlier time in the T-21, T-31, T-42 and T-49 of the Devon and Somerset Gliding Club.

The RAFGSA club with whom I trained was based at RAF Locking and came to Merryfield for an expedition week, which is where I soloed. But they also had a T-31, so I later flew that at Locking. Then a 'real' in a Slingsby Tutor, which managed to get me from 800ft to back on the ground in 2 minutes flat - it had a nigh-on perpendicular glide ratio and had even been fitted with spoilers, which it really didn't need.

Like many of us back then, I soloed a glider at 16 and got my PPL at 17 - both before I passed my driving test.

The Air Cadets organisation has lost a very great deal by abandoning traditional gliders for so long.... As for the PTT nonsense, that really is a crock from what ATC instructors have told us.

[Flying Palm Tree]

This brings back memories of West Malling in 1969. I seem to remember that a circuit was about 5 minutes downhill from pulling the big yellow ball at 1000 feet. The instructor bellowing down the voice tube and applying his boot to the errant student's backsides as required. I also remember the pleasure of flying solo at 16 and trying to imitate the instructors use of spoilers to arrive as close to the start line as possible so recovery by Land Rover was not required. We got to drive them too. Great fun, itchy uniforms and all. PPL etc. followed straight after school. Everyone should do it. Great for teaching self confidence and responsibility for yourself and others.

[ex82watcher]

I know it's not included in the thread title,but did anyone fly the 'grasshopper' glider as shown in the group photo's above.My school CCF had one,but I didn't get a chance to try it as the CCF was dispensed with when we became a 'Comprehensive' after we (King Edward VI,Lichfield) combined with the 'Secondary Modern' next door,and all my gliding was done with the ATC.I seem to remember that someone flew one across the Channel many years ago !

[DaveUnwin]

I flew one once ex82 - it was some sort of open day at Lasham in the mid-90s and various vintage gliders flew in the early evening. I was the last 'act' and took a tow to 3,000ft in a Grasshopper behind a Super Cub. It was fine all the time I was on tow, but I've never forgotten releasing the rope and then grabbing the bottom of the seat with my left hand when I looked down. For just a second it was a bit spooky.

[ex82watcher]

Hi Dave,if I remember correctly,the seat was something akin to a bicycle saddle,but I only saw it once,and it was over 40 years ago.If my memory is correct,I can understand it being a bit unnerving at 3,ooo ft.I guess they were only intended for short hops.

[DaveUnwin]

As I recall it was just a simple sheet of thick plywood, and yes, at 3,000ft it was slightly perturbing. Not sure I'd queue up to do it again.

[chevvron]

We had one at Halton for a while. A winch launch took it to about 800ft agl from where it was just possible to do a wide 360 then land.
When they were retired from the CCF, long after I had left 613, my Sqdn Cdr heard there were some stored at Halton so we asked if we could have one as an instructional airframe at the squadron. HQAC were only too willing to oblige and it stayed in my squadron HQ for several years gathering dust until another squadron offered to take it off our hands.

[treadigraph]

Read Delta Papa about how Derek Piggott was towed from Blackbushe to Paris in, or rather on, a Grasshopper (or another type of primary glider)!

[ex82watcher]

Ah yes,thanks tread,I did read that book a long time ago,I guess that's where I got the idea about the Xchannel flight.Again,if I remember correctly,DP did some of the flying for the film 'Blue Max'.

[treadigraph]

Indeed he did. I've just reread Delta Papa following DP's death and also Wally Kahn's A Glider Pilot Bold mentioned above...

[POBJOY]

If anyone in the higher echelons of the Air Cadets knew anything about gliding they would now be realising that the T31 did everything it was supposed to do; and all with an enviable safety record.
It is not beyond the wit of man to lay a new batch down incorporating new materials where required.
Get the Scouts onboard and you have a youth development (open to anyone) program back in business.
All that running around and fresh air and hey presto less long term issues for the NHS a win win all round !!!
The Gliding aspect of the Cadets was always far more than just the flying; it was about teamwork,decision making, self development, leadership, and group work without loosing the individual spirit.
Of course there will have to be a cull at the top end because that's where the problem is.
Its not 'drug rehab' we need it's getting youth 'hooked' on real life issues and making their own way in the world.

[chevvron]

Once again POBJOY; Hear Hear.
I've been saying that all along on the 'other' thread.

[Tengah Type]

My ATC Gliding Course was with 613 VGS at RAF Halton between June and August 1961. A total of 8 flights in T21 and 19 dual and 3 solo in T31. Total Flight Time 2hrs 38mins.
Fortunately the weather was good, as 42 days later I was an Officer Cadet at South Cerney.
I also did another Gliding Course ( including soloing in the T31 ), at RAF Syerston in July 1977 when I was a CCF Liaison Officer at HQ air Cadets. This included a hop of about 200yds in a Primary glider.
First time to actually touch the controls was in Varsity WJ903 at RAF Hullavington on 17 August 1959. I last flew in WJ903 at RAF Finningley 10 October 1974 about 18 months before the Varsity was taken out of service.

[treadigraph]

With modern production techniques it would be great to turn out kits of parts that could be assembled and finished by the cadets at each VGS with appropriate supervision; I imagine the cost of the Kenley fence must have cost the equivalent of several kits..

[DaveUnwin]

Treaders & Pobjoy, you guys are talking way too much sense. What makes me sad is I know just how right you are. I've already had some great feedback from so many, from senior 747 captains and Air Marshals, to veteran test pilots and - well, every aspect of aviation. And they're all like so many of the posts here - XX123 at West Malling/Spitalgate/Syerston etc etc aged 16 - and they all say essentially the same thing;- that kick-started their entire careers.

[Wander00]

Dave Unwin, Beagle, Pobjoy et al - HEAR, HEAR

[oldmansquipper]

Although I didn't get to fly gliders with the ATC, the organisation certainly shaped my (and my elder brothers) life. Single parent families and the social stigma that went with them in the 40s and 50s made life particularly hard at times. The ATC provided an out from poverty for us. We both went on to join the RAF, my brother as a pilot and me as an engineer. Between us we served for around 50 years or so.

Thank you 461 Sqn - "Venture Adventure" indeed.

WE992 - I hope you will be adding glass to the historic flight in the near future? assuming the paperwork can be sorted out, of course.

[chevvron]

With modern production techniques it would be great to turn out kits of parts that could be assembled and finished by the cadets at each VGS with appropriate supervision; I imagine the cost of the Kenley fence must have cost the equivalent of several kits..
Or how about adapting the design to use alloy tubing and a modern material like Ultralam instead of wood and fabric but keeping the same shape and dimensions.
Oh hang on though; just think how easy it was to dope on a patch of fabric to 'hide' an accidental hole.

[chevvron]

If anyone in the higher echelons of the Air Cadets knew anything about gliding they would now be realising that the T31 did everything it was supposed to do; and all with an enviable safety record.

I heard of one 'fatal' at Swanton I think in about 1965 but not attributable to the airframe; it was believed the cadet, on his first solo, lost one of the lenses from his spectacles and was groping around to find it when it inadvertantly dived in.
We had two went in at Halton whilst I was there; the first from an incipient on short final where both occupants walked away and the second was a collision with the caravan where the front seat occupant got a broken leg.

[WE992]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1672x1066/t_38_xa240_17_7649af65245fb5d2edabf62644833d04072efb49.jpg

Ex82watcher. Yes I've flown the Grasshopper and the Eon Eton TX1.

[Big Pistons Forever]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1672x1066/t_38_xa240_17_7649af65245fb5d2edabf62644833d04072efb49.jpg

Ex82watcher. Yes I've flown the Grasshopper and the Eon Eton TX1.

As a person who is afraid of heights there is no way I would ever sit on so little aeroplane way up in the air.

[Olympia463]

We seem to moving on to a general and personal history of the T31 so I can add my bit I think. In 1964 or thereabouts the ATC squadron a Meir in Staffordshire was disbanded. Several of the instructors were colleagues of mine at English Electric Stafford and they suggested to EE that they might add gliding to the sports activities funded by the company. This did not get any support from the bean counters, and so they put it about that maybe a private BGA gliding club might be an alternative. Long story short, this is how I got into serious gliding, having had a passenger ride at Great Hucklow back in '57. We raised the money, bought a T31, a second hand winch from the Derby and Lancs, and a Govt surplus Landrover. The airfield at Meir belonged to the Council and had a Robin hangar on it and some very scruffy huts. Off we went with about 30 ab-initios and all the ex ATC instructors . We used the ATC syllabus (why not?) and we were divided into batches of six. I was in batch one and was first member to solo after 30 launches (what do you mean you are not ready? -off you go!). We had about twenty or so people solo in about 6 months. A very strong technical committee was formed (I was made CTO since I was Chief Mechanical Designer LIMD EE Co and had a big office where we could hold meetings) to look after all the maintenance, and as time went on we designed and built our own winch, and acquired a Tutor and an Olympia2B. Nearly all that first batch became instructors eventually, and the club is still operating (I left EE in 1969 for a bigger job and went on to Husbands Bosworth) though not at Meir which is now a housing estate. I flew T31, T21, Capstan, Ka2, Ka7, Bocian, and K13 and much later ASK21. 2000+ trips as instructor. I owe my whole flying career to that T31.

[Arkroyal]

First flight in an Auster 5 from Shoreham around Worthing pier and back 1965. First air experience with ATC in a Wessex, RAF Odiham 1966. First touch of the controls in a Chipmunk at White Waltham 1966.
Gliding proficiency with 615 GS at RAF Kenley 1970 first solo in Mk3 XA301 in July.
The ATC gave me a wonderful introduction to RAF life, impressing me to such a degree that I joined the Fleet Air Arm instead!
Last landing at Lasham gliding club in a 737 at the demise of BMI Baby. Happy days all.

[DaveUnwin]

Hi All, just wanted to say how much I've enjoyed everyone's reminisces, and also offer sincere thanks for the personal emails and all the 'letters to the Editor' - this feature may yet even generate a bigger postbag to the magazine than the one I wrote last year about flying the Avro 19 from Farnborough to Old Warden! Thanks again, and if any of you enjoyed reading it half as much as I enjoyed writing it then you'll have enjoyed it!

[longer ron]

Yes Dave - thanks very much for the thread/article/and lovely pics :),we must try and visit some of the English Gliding Clubs with vintage gliders sometime this year,although our own club has a fair few anyway.

rgds LR

[DaveUnwin]

Hi LR, if you're ever near Saltby drop me a line, our vintage group has a few airworthy classics.

[treadigraph]

Just noticed that Special Hobby are bringing out a 1/48 kit of the EoN Eton/SG-38 - if any of you are modellers!

[longer ron]

Hi LR, if you're ever near Saltby drop me a line, our vintage group has a few airworthy classics.

OK Dave - will do.

cheers/rgds LR

[Wander00]

Thanks Dave for both the "Anson" and Cadet articles, both brought back fond memories

[chevvron]

When I started as a staff cadet at 613 in '64, there were photo's of 'Mk 3s' with a yellow painted upper surface to the wing.
I was told this was to denote they had originally been Mk 2s ie tandem seat but with a parallel chord wing and had been modified by the substitution of the later Mk 3 wing with its tapered outer sections.
By the time I paid my first visit to Halton in late 1962, the colour scheme for all Air Cadet gliders had been standardised as overall silver dope with stick on dayglo panels, even the yellow trainer band round the rear fuselage had gone.

[FLCH]

If it wasn't for the ATC instilling a sense of discipline in me, I know I would have ended up with a life of regret and dashed hopes.

Our CO was a member of the Pathfinders (he had the golden badge beneath his Nav wing) and was on Mosquitoes, a true gentleman and Officer who was in charge over a band of young men looking for leadership (Now at this stage in life I realize what he had done).

In our squadron one of our cadets went on to be a Nav on Buccaneers and my secondary school classmate (Yes we both failed our 11plus) went on to be Captains at Etihad and United Airlines today on the A-330 and 767 respectively after being given the chance to solo on gliders at Cosford.

Others went on to fruitful lives outside of aviation.

Without the Corps giving us chance, we would never have realized our potential.

Many grateful thanks to the ATC !

If only we could have the same sense of self control for our newer generations today , things would be so different !

[chevvron]

Just noticed that Special Hobby are bringing out a 1/48 kit of the EoN Eton/SG-38 - if any of you are modellers!
Year ago either Keil Kraft or Veron did a balsa and tissue flying model of the 'Tandem Tutor' about 2 ft span.

[BEagle]

Keil Kraft made a 24" wingspan 'Kirby Prefect' and Veron made a 30" wingspan 'Slingsby Prefect', but I'm not sure whether the T31 ever appeared in model form.

Replica kits of both Prefects are available from https://www.vintagemodelcompany.com/ . (I have no financial interest in the company)

[Wander00]

Beagle - well visiting that site is a trip down memory lane. Thanks

[Fitter2]

I can'r remember which company did the T31 model, but I do remember building one, painted as WT919 (my A&B steed at Kirton Lindsey in 1960), flying it a few times with no damage (amazingly) and 'presenting' it to 168 City of Leeds ATC Squadron when I left home to Join the RAF later that year. 30 inch span sounds about right. It was hanging in the ceiling there the following year when I revisited it wearing my JT stripe.

(Edit) after a brief search, my memory was jogged, and it was scratch built from an Aeromodeller 1958 plan, now can be found on https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2108

F2

[DaveUnwin]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1333x2000/40_9434_wt900_slingsby_t_31b_tandem_tutor_saltby_17_08_2018_ lead_b0046f3accf6da2a1317a80b5dfa1a87e54c4263.jpg
Before this thread finally fades away I thought a few of you might enjoy this picture of WT900's front cockpit - I'm sure that it will bring back many happy and vivid memories!

[BobD]

I am surprised that there has only been one mention of 631 VGS at RAF Sealand on this thread. I did my 3 solo's there in June 1967 in WV925, whilst a member of 611 Squadron (2nd City of Liverpool) ATC.

Great article in PILOT Dave, and I endorse everything positive that's been said about the ATC, and the shamefull lack of flying experience available to youngsters. My experience with the ATC engendered a lifetime interest in aviation, which continues to this day.

[astir 8]

Might I also refer anyone who missed it to the wonderful thread "Air Cadets Gliding Pix in the 80's (pre glass)" which appeared on the Pprune "Aviation History and Nostalgia" some years back. I'm sure someone more adept than me can do a link, but otherwise use the Search Facility

[Dave Gittins]

First aeroplane I drove and soloed in was a cadet Mk 111 at Burtonwood [was it 635 GS ?] in early cold 1970, just before my 17th Birthday and before it was turned into the M62.

Seem to recall the main flight instrument was a piece of red string tied to the top of the pitot tube that rose like a swan neck from just in front of the wind screen. The plan was to keep it fore and aft and not pointing off to one side. No mean feat with numb feet despite 2 pairs of socks and a pair of Air Cadet boots to keep the cold out

Edit to say that said piece of red string is clearly visible in Dave's post 79. :-)

[BEagle]

Yes, the well-known red string slip indicator, sometimes seen with a little dayglo cone on the end to stop it fraying.

Poor man's yaw vane - and very effective!

50 years on I can almost smell the wood, varnish, dope and paint of Dave's cockpit photo - and hear the creaking!

[DaveUnwin]

Am really pleased you all enjoyed it. Here's another great Keith Wilson pic of me about to land WT900 at Saltby.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/39_2296_wt900_slingsby_t_31b_tandem_tutor_saltby_17_08_2018_ lead_050c8091ac2cb52e701bbab491bc169d00a48464.jpg

[Fitter2]

Yes, the well-known red string slip indicator, sometimes seen with a little dayglo cone on the end to stop it fraying.

Poor man's yaw vane - and very effective!

Poor man's indeed! Highly sensitive, surely. I recently flew a rather large glider, the outfit total price somewhat above £200,000. No sailplane is seen without one. (In a open cockpit, differential ear temperature is quite effective though.

[Four Turbo]

Happy memories of when the ATC delivered! Did my time 'backwards' somehow. Flying Schol. on Tiger Moths at Croydon airport summer of 1955. G-ANDE and G-ANEW - both still flying! My ATC squadron didn't seem to do gliding, so I talked myself onto an autumn course at St Athan whilst there at 1956 summer camp. Solo after 10 launches then given the Bedford pick-up to double declutch pulling cables. Reward was a chance for a 'C' licence in a Cadet 3 - which I took. The cadet exchange to Canada the following year convinced me to join up! Oh yes - the ATC delivered.

[Penny Washers]

Like everyone else, I did my training on the 'Berg and the T31. But my first solo was on a Mark I Cadet, because the other aircraft were in use at the time. I was sent off with lots of warnings ringing in my ears about adverse yaw (which was a feature of the model), but nothing came amiss, except for being towed up straight into lift! That can mess up a simple circuiit! Do you turn early to get out of the lift, or do you carry straight on at the top of the tow until the lift goes away? But it all worked out, anyway.
On another occasion, I was nearly towed under a truck which was driven across in front of me as the tow line was tightening and the T31 was beginning to move. The truck fortunately cleared as I left the ground, but the instructor on the ground had shouted "stop" and the signaller to the winch had relayed this to the winch driver, thus giving me a "cable break" for real. We neither of us thought to 'pull the tit' which would have been the proper thing to do.
The truck driver would have owed me a whole crate of beers after that, but of course I was too young.

[Airclues]

T31. RAF Kirton in Lindsey. 28th November 1963.

[chevvron]

Am really pleased you all enjoyed it. Here's another great Keith Wilson pic of me about to land WT900 at Saltby.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/39_2296_wt900_slingsby_t_31b_tandem_tutor_saltby_17_08_2018_ lead_050c8091ac2cb52e701bbab491bc169d00a48464.jpg
You shouldn't need the spoilers that low down.https://www.pprune.org/images/icons/46.gif
The majority of Mk 3s we had at 613 Halton didn't even have spoliers so you had to learn to judge your landings correctly.

[longer ron]

The majority of Mk 3s we had at 613 Halton didn't even have spoliers so you had to learn to judge your landings correctly.

All the Mk3's at 613 had spoilers by 1970.

[longer ron]

Am really pleased you all enjoyed it. Here's another great Keith Wilson pic of me about to land WT900 at Saltby.


That is a lovely pic Dave - looks like it was going to be a nice 'arrival' as well :)

[l.garey]

I only just saw this thread, thanks to Astir 8 pointing it out in the "Air Cadets Gliding" thread. Fantastic to look through the preceding posts and those fine pictures. I note that at least a couple of the posters are from Peterborough, and I am yet another. So I was in 115 Squadron ATC, and did my gliding at Hawkinge on the Cadet Mk 3 in September/ October 1958 (WT918 and XA 282). Instructors Matthews, Mares, Ladley, Whittenbury. Soloed in XA282 (that still exists). I had already done a PPL at Cambridge on Marshalls' Tiger Moths (same sort of glide as the T31!). Went on to do more gliding in the French Alps and pursued my powered flying to FAA IR level. Stopped flying in 2016. Great thread.

Laurence

[Fitter2]

Are the spoilers there as an approach aid? I always thought they were only there so I could twitch the individual cables by my left shoulder to simulate turbulence (or unsettle an over-confident pupil) :E

[DaveUnwin]

Hi Chevron, photographer Keith asked me to be at exactly that height and place for the landing shots, with some spoiler deployed for the photos - I'm just following the brief! It wasn't a bad landing though.

[lsh]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1440x2000/scan_20190202_1e9f9f490d0fb8b9139e20bccaa34767e6b77aea.jpg

Much enjoyed your article & all the banter on here.
Interesting to note the number of launches vs small number of hours!
We were so lucky to fly so much - unlike the cadets at the moment.
Happy Memories!

lsh
:E

[621andy]

First flight at 621 at Weston on the Mud in the barge WB991 and several subsequent AEG flights in Mk3s before solo in WB922 (The Royal Barge) at Syerston after 4 days training on 12.8.81...
Went on to be a Staff Cadet at 621 VGS for 6 years... We used the Barge(T21) for AEG and all training was in the Mk3. At our peak we had 4 Mk3s(XA310, XA308, WT877, XN240) and one barge(WB991).
Someone mentioned Dawn to Dusks: I think we did 303 launches in '83(?) as a 2 winch school. This included a fair amount of normal training with landing all over the field as well as 'spot landings' for the AEG stuff. In the last hour I think we did 53 launches by which time we were landing on the waiting cable and keeping the same crew to break the 300 barrier. I think my total was 48 launches with the first one at sunrise and one of the last at sunset! We lost some time early afternoon due to a snarl-up I seem to remember... I also remember someone had wired up the rubber headsets to play music from a Walkman so we took off on the first launch with 'To The Unknown Man' playing in our ears:)

I also remember one of our Landys used to be a hearse and had a hand-throttle which meant we could set off with the Mk3 trailer on the back, set the hand throttle and climb back onto the trailer and influence direction(steering is too grand a term for it:} )by using winch strops wrapped through the steering wheel.

Happy days...

Strangely enough, our 621 Vintage group still has WB922 flying and XA310 too!

[longer ron]

Are the spoilers there as an approach aid? I always thought they were only there so I could twitch the individual cables by my left shoulder to simulate turbulence (or unsettle an over-confident pupil) :E
Yes there is absolutely no truth in the rumour that I used to pull on an individual spoiler cable (and thus raising only one spoiler) in opposition to the turn being executed if there was a cocky staff cadet flying in the front of a Mk3 - or sometimes in straight and level just for a giggle :)

[JSF-TC]

I flew in T21 WB932 and T31 XA286 and XA311 at Kenley in 1983. Went solo on XA311. Went on to fly at Lasham 1987 - 1992 before giving up when I bought a house.

Resumed flying when I moved to California in 1999 and ended up owning 2 gliders (DG300 and Discus CS) in CA and then in Texas. Last flight was in 2010 due to a growing family. I didn't feel safe not flying regularly, plus 2 friends were killed in quick succession in gliding accidents (probably medical causes on both).

Strange co-incidence. Drove my DG300 up to Minden for a weeks flying in 2000 and ran into one of my original Kenley instructors on a flying vacation. Ended up sharing a house for the week. Small world.

We had a T21 at our Texas club for a while - didn't get a flight in in though, but it brought back memories.


Paul

[chevvron]

All the Mk3's at 613 had spoilers by 1970.
I'm wondering if maybe there was a programme to retrofit them to Mk 3s as they went to Kirbymoorside for a 'major' because I was the only one there in about June 1965 when the first one (WT871) was delivered from the factory by a Slingsby driver in a Landrover towing a glider trailer. I helped unload and signed for it; he was in a hurry as also in the trailer he had some boats (rowing '8s') which he had to deliver to Henley before dark.
This was followed by, I think, WT 913 a few months later.

[Dutystude]

Thanks Dave.

Spring 1968 at Spitlegate. First launch 5 min in a Barge learning how to fly. Then nineteen 3 min dual launches in a Mk 3 culminating in the A&B 3 solos.

Done over half a dozen weekends requiring 2 busses, 2 trains and half a mile hike up the hill from Grantham Station to Spitlegate after school on Friday.

Oh, and what an eye-opener the WRAF recruit depot on a Friday night was for a 16 year old schoolboy.

[chevvron]

VerdunLuck
I've tried to reply to your PM but you've exceeded your quota until you 'dump' some PMs.
Terry

[Prangster]

Hi Airclues, you must have been there at the same time as little me. Brian Speckley who became national gliding champion was also dipping his toes in the water at that time

[POBJOY]

The real benefit of NOT having spoilers was the ability to learn precision side slipping which became very useful later when one had to do PFL's in non flapped powered machines.
In a real emergency the ability to side slip safely really does make a difference when landing over obstacles or in a limited space.
Of course it was all covered in basic training up to advent of the flapped monoplane types.

[DaveUnwin]

Exactly Pobjoy - being able to side-slip accurately is a very useful tool! So chuffed at all the reminisces here (and I know the Editor has also received a very full postbag of T.31 memories). For anyone that's interested, I followed up the T.31 feature with a test of this beauty!
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1120/22_1417_g_bsiy_schleischer_ask_14_saltby_26_06_2018_copy_6be e0996ca3fc1e1843241b6d1e80bbeeb67cd3c.jpg

[longer ron]

What a gorgeous little MG Dave - K 14 ?
What a cutie :)

[DaveUnwin]

Spot-on Ron - and it really was lovely to fly! One with an electric engine and say 90 minutes of battery would make the most wonderful toy - you could scratch down to just a couple of hundred feet (over a sensible field of course) and know the motor would work, unlike a petrol engine!

[MAINJAFAD]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/469x375/cable_cut_dbb117b16592acbd1dfcdba444a1937ee0c083d8.jpg
617GS Hendon. Not a bad landing! A winch cable was dropping onto the glider and the winch operator was trying to reel it in at high speed.. Result an efficient saw!

It did get repaired as WT913 was one of the two aircraft that I flew while doing my Gliding Course in 1983 with 614VGS at Weathersfield. Actually Soloed in WT917.

[treadigraph]

I was going to suggest the SFS 31 Milan for 'SIY but realised it's not an RF-4 fuselage. RF-4 - there is an aeroplane I'd like - and not just the LDM kit somewhere in my loft... and not the Phantom either...

[DaveUnwin]

Hi Treaders, from what I hear I don't think the RF-4 soars as nicely as the -14, but the -31 does.

Digressing slightly I was a little disappointed that no one on here had ever flown WT900, and interestingly for next month's Pilot I'm also testing an ex-mil machine.

Anyone on here ever fly VX924?

[Rory166]

You shouldn't need the spoilers that low down.https://www.pprune.org/images/icons/46.gif
The majority of Mk 3s we had at 613 Halton didn't even have spoliers so you had to learn to judge your landings correctly.

Thank you for mentioning that. At Swanton Morely the T31s did not have spoilers but the T21 did. I was beginning to doubt my sanity with all the talk of spoilers and the pictures. It did mean landing way up the field. I soloed in the T31 in 1973 at the age of 16, you had to be 16 to solo but had flown air experience since age 13. Due to poor weather I had to return for a second bank holiday weelend of flight training so took abot 33 launches which was a lot in those days, some would have soloed in one weekeknd with 20 odd launches as I recall.

[DaveUnwin]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1541x1111/cropped_terrier_68a3ac217fef1e49d111aeb17caead061abfe429.jpg
Forgot to post an image of VX924. Note that it looked a little different in service from this great Keith Wilson pic.

[SirToppamHat]

In early 1965 I had three Air Experience flights in a Mk3, but I'm struggling to remember where they took place. My RAF Form 3822 records the glider number as 253, and at the time I was a member of 1166 (Welwyn Garden City) ATC Sqn. Would Halton have been the most likely?
Might your gliding have taken place at Henlow? Closer than Halton I think.

[chevvron]

It did get repaired as WT913 was one of the two aircraft that I flew while doing my Gliding Course in 1983 with 614VGS at Weathersfield. Actually Soloed in WT917.
I flew '913 on various occasions at Halton and Bovingdon between Dec '66 and Jul '71.
My last ever Mk 3 flight was in XE790 from Halton in Jun '79.

[circuitbasher613]

In 1965, both 1166 and 2203 ATC Squadrons attended 616 VGS at RAF Henlow. I soloed in T31 WT910 at Henlow on 22nd Feb 1959, and did the advanced course in 1962, after which I became a staff cadet and eventually an instructor at RAF Halton until I retired in 1997 on the Grob Vigilant powered aircraft.

[VerdunLuck]

I can probably relate one of the more unusual tales involving a Mk3 at Halton.

Early October with visibility about 2 to 3 miles (so the ridge in sight, but not much beyond. I was to do a hangar flight in WT908 as the sun was setting and just before the launch I noticed that the top of the ridge had cleared and there seemed to be clearer air moving down the ridge, like a very slow waterfall. The launch went as normal (so about 600 ft) taking off towards the compass base with a slight crosswind from the right.

A right hand circuit completed I started the approach from the gunpit towards the compass base in a side slip (WT908 had no spoilers). At about a hundred feet with most of the airfield in front I stopped the side slip and after a few seconds was amazed to find the Mk3 wasn't going down; in fact it seemed to be going up! By the time I got to the end of the airfield I was back at 500 ft. A second circuit produced the same result, except I was ready for it and worked my way up to about 900ft (I had looked up and seen the two Sedberghs at about 1800).

For a while it was quite fun just tootling around over the airfield flying level. It must have been a Saturday with Fred in charge as the Boss might have got very upset. What had happened was that the clear air I had seen descending from the ridge was some sort of katabatic wind caused by the air at the top of the ridge cooling which had met the local wind going in the opposite direction over the airfield and the only way for them to go was up.

After a good few minutes fun it began to occur to me that it was getting dark and I seemed to have no reliable way to get 908 on the ground (no spoilers). In the end I sneaked around the end of the trees along the road (mostly cut down now) and landed towards the ridge; with the main skid on the ground not even the katabatic front could get the Mk3 airborne again.

I never, ever saw that katabatic front happen again.

[VerdunLuck]

Thank you for mentioning that. At Swanton Morely the T31s did not have spoilers but the T21 did. I was beginning to doubt my sanity with all the talk of spoilers and the pictures. It did mean landing way up the field. I soloed in the T31 in 1973 at the age of 16, you had to be 16 to solo but had flown air experience since age 13. Due to poor weather I had to return for a second bank holiday weelend of flight training so took abot 33 launches which was a lot in those days, some would have soloed in one weekeknd with 20 odd launches as I recall.

Cadets were taught not to use spoilers on the Mk3 (even if fitted) up to solo standard. They could be vicious and most importantly it sometimes took a few seconds for the wing to start working properly again when they were closed and the ground might intervene.

My personal best as an instructor was on a course when I managed to get a pupil solo after only 16 launches and never getting launched above 600 ft which with the rate a Mk3 came down was probably only just over half an hour's flying. Two of those launches were in a Sedbergh (again to 600 ft) in which we did stalling and spinning!

[chevvron]

In 1965, both 1166 and 2203 ATC Squadrons attended 616 VGS at RAF Henlow. I soloed in T31 WT910 at Henlow on 22nd Feb 1959, and did the advanced course in 1962, after which I became a staff cadet and eventually an instructor at RAF Halton until I retired in 1997 on the Grob Vigilant powered aircraft.
You have a PM.

[Eclectic]

Half a century ago I was a staff cadet at 631 GS Sealand.
Every weekend winch driving and cable towing followed by a couple of solos in a T21b.
Flew the Mk3 but preferred the T21b.
.
One day a student stalled a Mk3 in from a few hundred feet, it broke up comprehensively on impact, but, remarkably, he walked away from it.
What amazed me was that the cable release wire didn't cause him serious harm as it ran vertically between his legs.

[GliFly]

This thread sure takes me back to my first glider solo in August 1958 with 616 at Henlow in WT901. I was the first 616-trained cadet to solo there as Peter Bullivant didn't open the school until the July. An advanced course at Halesland in 1959 then a staff cadet and CI with 616 until the end of 1964.

I do recall one instructor who gave a trainee a simulated cable break at about 100 ft. The launch was, maybe, a bit slow and after the instructor 'pulled the bung' nobody seemed to do anything. Eventually the instructor pussed the stick forward, but it was too late. The T31 mushed-in and landed with hard. Fortunately the trainee was unhurt, but the instructor had a back injury which landed him in the RAF Hospital at Halton.

I'm fortunate that I still get to fly a T21b regularly but would love another 'go' in a T31.

[Bag Carrier]

I can't resist extending this thread. My experience was typical: I went solo in a Kirby Cadet Mk 3 with 615 VGS at RAF Kenley in the summer of 1984 - 700ft launch followed by 3 min circuit.

My question is - when was the last ATC T31 first solo? Vikings were already being introduced in '84 and I think 615 converted the following year.

[chevvron]

My question is - when was the last ATC T31 first solo? Vikings were already being introduced in '84 and I think 615 converted the following year.
My last winch launch was with 613 VGS Halton on 21 Oct 79 in Sedburgh XN 150; my next flight in an Air Cadet glider was from Benson with 612 VGS on 1 Aug 81 in Venture ZA654, so assuming conversions to Venture and Viking/Vanguard took place at similar times it could have been as early as 1981.
After 1979, my next flight from Halton wasn't until 26 May 1991 in Cyclone AX3 59EE, but that's not important here apart from the fact I used to do 'Mk 3' type circuits in the AX3 at Halton ie base leg 300ft descending and turn final at 150ft.

[bloodaxe]

Yes I did too, on an ATC gliding course in about 1963 and I still remember the first time I had to react to a cable break on a winch launch! My enamel wings badge made me feel very proud and I went on to get my proper wings but have never forgotten the start the ATC gave me towards a service career and I am very pleased that they continue to do so. Bloodaxe

[DaveUnwin]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/39_2182_wt900_slingsby_t_31b_tandem_tutor_saltby_17_08_2018_ lead_ba24bfe5035c2ca144f685309aff88395c55181c.jpg
An unusual Keith Wilson image of me on tow in WT900 behind the BGC's EuroFox.

[biscuit74]

Very nice photo Dave. Quite rare to see T31s on aerotow.
I recall doing an aerotow into wave in aT31 at Aboyne, many years ago. The handling in wave turbulence was 'exciting'.

[chevvron]

Can't make it out on my 11" screen but I hope the correct hook was used.

[Krystal n chips]

Very nice photo Dave. Quite rare to see T31s on aerotow.
I recall doing an aerotow into wave in aT31 at Aboyne, many years ago. The handling in wave turbulence was 'exciting'.

Yep, it can get a bit "entertaining and exciting ".....however, it does beg a question here. ......and this is not a "catch you out " query I assure you, far from it.

As you were heading for the delights of wave flying, erm, did you wear a parachute and carry that useful stuff called oxygen ?...only if you did, it would have been a rather tight fit .....:);)....and keeping warm (ish )

[Olympia463]

Can't make it out on my 11" screen but I hope the correct hook was used.

Did the T31 have a nose hook? Ours didn't, and I was always towed using the belly hook quite satisfactorily.

And we never wore 'chutes in the T31 in my club. When we eventually got a Capstan 'chutes were worn, and what fun we had getting passengers into them, and then explaining the exit procedure, ending with 'If I say 'jump' do not say 'pardon' as I will have gone already'.

[biscuit74]

Yep, it can get a bit "entertaining and exciting ".....however, it does beg a question here. ......and this is not a "catch you out " query I assure you, far from it.

As you were heading for the delights of wave flying, erm, did you wear a parachute and carry that useful stuff called oxygen ?...only if you did, it would have been a rather tight fit .....:);)....and keeping warm (ish )

No, we didn't in those days, either in the T31 or T21. Most of our flying then was by winch, so little benefit in either. We did move to routine wearing of parachutes and, soon after, oxygen when we got a Capstan and started to do some seriously high wave flying. It was a new phenomenon to us at Aboyne then!

I think out T31 had a nose hook, and that was the last wave flight we did in it I believe - the whole structure seemed to be twisting at times in the turbulence - much rougher than we'd found before. The T21 fared much better in wave turbulence, though sometime needed all hands on the control column to try to keep it level! Adding closed canopies helped for higher wave work in NE Scottish autumns..

I agree, the T31 would have been tight for parachutes. I have a memory that the T21 had a removable seat back section, with a moulded recess behind to allow room for a ;chute. The Capstan canvas seats were made for parachute wearing and were awkward without them. Happy days, when we were exploring the area.

[chevvron]

Did the T31 have a nose hook? Ours didn't, and I was always towed using the belly hook quite satisfactorily.

All the Air Cadet Mk 3s in my era had nose hooks as well as a belly hook.
I lost count of the number of times I heard a 'take up slack' and on looking shouting 'STOP, release the cable' even when you took great care to brief AEG cadets not to use it.
We did use the nose hook a couple of times too though, when ferrying gliders to/from Bovingdon on detachment using the Halton Chipmunk tug.

[Krystal n chips]

No, we didn't in those days, either in the T31 or T21. Most of our flying then was by winch, so little benefit in either. We did move to routine wearing of parachutes and, soon after, oxygen when we got a Capstan and started to do some seriously high wave flying. It was a new phenomenon to us at Aboyne then!

I think out T31 had a nose hook, and that was the last wave flight we did in it I believe - the whole structure seemed to be twisting at times in the turbulence - much rougher than we'd found before. The T21 fared much better in wave turbulence, though sometime needed all hands on the control column to try to keep it level! Adding closed canopies helped for higher wave work in NE Scottish autumns..

I agree, the T31 would have been tight for parachutes. I have a memory that the T21 had a removable seat back section, with a moulded recess behind to allow room for a ;chute. The Capstan canvas seats were made for parachute wearing and were awkward without them. Happy days, when we were exploring the area.

Thanks for the reply :ok: Nothing like rotor to negate the "gliding is fun ! " maxim when you encounter it. Sooner you than me I have to say with your intrepid adventures in that era.

[biscuit74]

Thanks for the reply :ok: Nothing like rotor to negate the "gliding is fun ! " maxim when you encounter it. Sooner you than me I have to say with your intrepid adventures in that era.

Yep, I'd agree. Serious rotor definitely reduces the 'gliding is fun' bit.
As a tug pilot it used to really get tedious - we just have battled our way up into the nice smooooth stuff and then the darn glider pilot releases, so I have to dive down through that washing machine spin cycle again! Still, these days, better tugs, better sailplanes - and a bit more understanding of what is happening and why.

[DaveUnwin]

I always thought the rotor was like a washing machine too! In Easterly wave at Talgarth climb rates of almost 2,000ft/min have been recorded by gliders, with sink and rotor to match. It could be brutal........

[DaveUnwin]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/39_2240_wt900_slingsby_t_31b_tandem_tutor_saltby_17_08_2018_ dps_lead_bb4747d634336a6ccbbce29ad340741a49d1dc2d.jpg
I know some of you have enjoyed the A2A's of WT900, as pictures of T.31s in flight are quite rare. So here's another great Keith Wilson pic!

[chevvron]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/39_2240_wt900_slingsby_t_31b_tandem_tutor_saltby_17_08_2018_ dps_lead_bb4747d634336a6ccbbce29ad340741a49d1dc2d.jpg
I know some of you have enjoyed the A2A's of WT900, as pictures of T.31s in flight are quite rare. So here's another great Keith Wilson pic!
Clearly showing the nose hook!! The belly hook for winch launch/auto tow was on the far side just aft of the forward shock absorber.

[India Four Two]

I always thought the rotor was like a washing machine too!

A very experienced towplane pilot in my club used to say "The rotor is not rough unless you get rolled inverted!" He was referring to towing to the wave at Cowley, Alberta, downwind of the Livingstone Range, which generates spectacular wave and associated rotors:


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x575/livingstone_range_c7ff1e9afe1efde1d68bf77b284c2920ad1c1afb.j pg