Mont Blanc helicopter rescue

[Nige321]

Sloping ground... :eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtq09vVFDow

[atakacs]

I wonder how much clearance was available for the rotor blades.

The pilot was quoted claiming this was somewhat routine stuff. Interresting job they are having!

[Sikpilot]

Wow. Just wow.

[[email protected]]

Since they had a winch and used it to recover the casualty - why on earth would you put the aircraft in such a hazardous position to pick up the first pax?

I know nose-in landings are routine and often the only way to get the job done but in this case it seems an unnecessary risk.

Some skillful flying to be sure but risk vs reward balance???

[HeliHenri]

Since they had a winch and used it to recover the casualty - why on earth would you put the aircraft in such a hazardous position to pick up the first pax?



Because that's just a training session, so they use both methods (the title of the thread is not accurate).
.

[industry insider]

Crab wrote

Since they had a winch and used it to recover the casualty - why on earth would you put the aircraft in such a hazardous position to pick up the first pax?

I know nose-in landings are routine and often the only way to get the job done but in this case it seems an unnecessary risk.

Some skillful flying to be sure but risk vs reward balance???

My thoughts exactly

[gsa]

There’s no fog or roads involved so this’ll only be one page then.

Nice bit of work though.

[[email protected]]

Because that's just a training session, so they use both methods (the title of the thread is not accurate). fair enough - thanks for clearing that up:ok:

[mmurray]

Suggestion here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-09/rescue-pilot-lands-helicopter-on-the-side-of-mountain/10703580

that it is a real rescue with people involved named. You also get a longer video. The helicopter off loads 4 rescuers nose-in who sort out the
injured guys leg, then it picks up some of them nose-in and then it winches out injured guy and last rescuer.

[Disclaimer: I know stuff all about helicopters. I'm not a journalist.]

[HeliHenri]

My mistake.
You're right mmurray, I've just received a message confirming it and saying that I'm becoming senile :(

[mmurray]

My mistake.
You're right mmurray, I've just received a message confirming it and saying that I'm becoming senile :(

No worries! Thanks. So the nose-in drop-off and pick-up is just because it's quicker than winching 4 people down ?
Seems like it would be more hazardous but see Disclaimer above :-)

[SASless]

I hate to be a spoil sport here....but there is much flatter ground shown in the beginning of the video.

In a real rescue....would it not make far more sense to package the victim....and move him a few hundred meters to a spot nearby that would afford a much less demanding landing and perhaps prevent the need for any winching at all.

If the extreme landing practice was desired....why not do it with no one but the crew aboard?

I mean what could possibly go wrong?


For Example:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEbMJuyRnHc

[Drav]

wow indeed

[roybert]

Because that's just a training session, so they use both methods (the title of the thread is not accurate).
.

Training session or not with a winch equipped aircraft why place it in a high risk situation even for a real rescue.

Roybert

[[email protected]]

As it now appears to have been a rescue rather than training it does call into question the wisdom of using nose-in landing instead of hoisting just to save a couple of minutes.

[JB-123]

Because he is pilot only for the pick up, the winch op is on scene.
He picks up crew then does the winch tx

[[email protected]]

No - you can clearly see that there is someone still in the door once the aircraft has dropped off the other 3 persons.

[mickjoebill]

Time pressure of clouds closing in?
mjb

[JB-123]

I stand corrected - you can see the winch ops feet on the run in

[cyclic]

One gust, one autopilot malfunction and a bloke with an injured leg will seem trivial. He would need all his superior skill to get out of his demonstration of superior skill. They put the winch on for a reason.

[Tango and Cash]

Hero since it worked, zero if it had gone poorly.

[gazpad]

I'm wondering about the clearance he estimated to have and actually had left with the rotortip... 10, 20 maybe 30 centimeters? If this is your comfortzone I'm impressed.

[Bell_ringer]

I'm wondering about the clearance he estimated to have and actually had left with the rotortip... 10, 20 maybe 30 centimeters? If this is your comfortzone I'm impressed.

Mobile phone videos leave much to be desired when trying to guage perspective and depth.
It may look a lot worse than it is.
Probably too much to consider that the crew are professionals using their judgment.

[[email protected]]

Probably too much to consider that the crew are professionals using their judgment. There is no doubt about that nor that the flying is anything but skillful - is their decision to operate nose in when you have a winch justified though?

There is so little margin for error that a person with a hurty knee really doesn't justify the exposure of the aircraft and crew like that (nose-in) when a safer alternative is readily available.

if speed was of the essence - casualty bleeding out or needing CPR for example - then I might have a different opinion but there was no urgent lifesaving here.

[bront]

May be they have the pointy things on the front of the skids to make it easier to judge if they will have clearance or not. If the top of the pointy thing is going to touch first then no but if the bottom or the whole thing then good to go. To me it looks like the driver has done this many times before and it's all in a days work. I fly a BK and my normal landings are slower than this, so I take my hat off to this guy. Beautiful, silky smooth piece of flying in my opinion.

[Tickle]

Amazing flying indeed! Are there sensors available much like parking sensors on cars which can indicate how close to something ahead the helicopter is?

[NRDK]

When the 'Proverbial *^"! hits the fan' as it eventually does... well lets say it will be messy.:ugh:

[John Eacott]

Having done similar pick ups in the Australian Alps during searches in my BK I have little issue with the nose-in pickup, it was done smartly without fuss and IMO safely. It could be argued that a winch of three persons would expose the aircraft unnecessarily in the hover over hostile terrain for a longer period than it took for a stable hover pickup.

Picking at nits, I would prefer to see all on the hoist recovered into the cabin before leaving a hover. Let alone the spirited pedal turn and fly away as the double winch passes the skids; but that may be deemed acceptable by the operator and is only an observation from one who knows of fatals where the winch weight has separated from the winch and dropped too far to the surface.

[Photonic]

I keep thinking about the granite boulder or rock face that might be just a few inches below the snow layer. On the other hand, without more context, it could be that this pilot knows the area very well and it's perfectly safe. One video isn't enough information.

[Same again]

Wonder if the crew did their HAPS checks, 3 H's and E's and were safe single engine throughout? Good job they are French and EASA rules do not apply ;-) If I had flown away over a drop of what looks like many 000's of ft with winchman and cas dangling on the wire there would have been an interesting debrief.

[[email protected]]

It could be argued that a winch of three persons would expose the aircraft unnecessarily in the hover over hostile terrain for a longer period than it took for a stable hover pickup. but an engine failure (or many other malfunctions) from a winching hover is easily managed with a gentle flyaway - not so from the nose-in position

[gazpad]

Mobile phone videos leave much to be desired when trying to guage perspective and depth.
It may look a lot worse than it is.
Probably too much to consider that the crew are professionals using their judgment.


No doubts about the competence of the crew flying, it looks smooth and precise.

I agree it is difficult to estimate the clearance from the video!

What I read from the discussion is that a short contact of the the rotortip with an uncompacted soft snow surface doesnt necessarily stop the machine from flying as long as there are no rocks?

Regarding autopilot malfunction, do you leave the AP/SAS on for a maneuver like that?

Thanks for the insight from the professionals, I'm just a PPL student who gets nervous with less like 1.5 meters rotor clearance on my S300.

I'm still impressed like an amateur driver watching a racedriver taking a corner at three times my speed.

[misterbonkers]

Same Again; Police Ops and SAR are a State activity under EASA therefore CAT/SPO requirements need not apply. It’s only the UK that has a law about flying in accordance with CAT. So it’s nothing to do with been ‘French’.

I’d argue that the quicker option shown here is less exposure than prolonged high hovering? If any of you ski you will have seen a number of nose in rescues like this.

Its a steep slope to say the least; would you want to try and control a 120kg casualty on a stretcher down it to a flatter spot on skis/crampons with unknown snow depths? It’s hard work to say the least.

[cattletruck]

Watch this over and over a few times and concluded that they've done it before many times as the execution was very good - and the weather was ideal for being on the piste.

Regarding losing an engine, I guess you can weigh the risk with the time spent in that configuration (less than a minute), I guess there would be more risk on a day like that of someone coming down the mountain for a look and not seeing the rotating bits.

[Groquik]

some facts on the operations here
with google translate (https://translate.google.fr/translate?hl=fr&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.francebleu.fr%2Finfos%2Finsolite%2Fvideo-les-images-epoustouflantes-de-l-intervention-de-l-helicoptere-de-la-gendarmerie-lors-d-un-1546874993)

and "en francais (https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/insolite/video-les-images-epoustouflantes-de-l-intervention-de-l-helicoptere-de-la-gendarmerie-lors-d-un-1546874993)" with 3 videos (skipped by google translate)

[[email protected]]

The nose of the helicopter is stuck to the snowy slope. The blades of the EC 145 of the gendarmerie graze the white coat. That might be a little too close for comfort for some.

Two winching evolutions (a double lift and a single lift) to put the team down on the slope is hardly excessive exposure.

[Nige321]

Now on the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-46817131/french-alps-skiers-rescued-in-dramatic-helicopter-manoeuvre)with an interview with the pilot...

[helimutt]

No doubts about the competence of the crew flying, it looks smooth and precise.

I agree it is difficult to estimate the clearance from the video!

What I read from the discussion is that a short contact of the the rotortip with an uncompacted soft snow surface doesnt necessarily stop the machine from flying as long as there are no rocks?

Regarding autopilot malfunction, do you leave the AP/SAS on for a maneuver like that?

Thanks for the insight from the professionals, I'm just a PPL student who gets nervous with less like 1.5 meters rotor clearance on my S300.

I'm still impressed like an amateur driver watching a racedriver taking a corner at three times my speed.


My worry with your statement is that you're happy for less than a 1.5m rotor tip clearance as a PPL. As an ATPL I wouldn't use 1.5m as a comfortable clearance unless doing a job like the above. But seriously, you might want to revise your clearance figures upwards somewhat. I hope you never have a blade contact with anything as your insurer will have a field day after reading your comment above. Just saying. As for AP, yes they'll be in use with SAS im sure.

[gazpad]

My worry with your statement is that you're happy for less than a 1.5m rotor tip clearance as a PPL. As an ATPL I wouldn't use 1.5m as a comfortable clearance unless doing a job like the above. But seriously, you might want to revise your clearance figures upwards somewhat. I hope you never have a blade contact with anything as your insurer will have a field day after reading your comment above. Just saying. As for AP, yes they'll be in use with SAS im sure.

Thank you for your answer.

My happiness with clearance starts to go down actually around 4-5m. As soon as I get closer than 2-3m to anything with my rotor, I feel the severe urge to fly away from it. At 1.5m I would be probably already in deep panic.
This is for a calm wind day. With some wind or even worse with gusts my panic might as well start at 4-5 meters, impairing how smooth my control inputs are. Of course I hope to never have blade contact with anything as well.

[megan]

Isn't it wonderful how we jump in criticising a crew without having the facts that prompted them to act as they did.

[mmurray]

Now on the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-46817131/french-alps-skiers-rescued-in-dramatic-helicopter-manoeuvre)with an interview with the pilot...

That's interesting thanks. So he needed the time saved due to the weather conditions.

[Sikpilot]

https://nypost.com/video/helicopter-pilot-pulls-off-wild-stunt-during-french-alps-rescue/

[GrayHorizonsHeli]

Why train for both?

simple, winches have been known to fail.

sorry bitches, slide down the hill to safety, my coily cord retractor broke and I cant save you now. Buh bye, going back to base now.

[Jetstream67]

Balls of Ice !!

[ersa]

I wonder what the MMI gauge looked like

[Bell_ringer]

Any journo/blogger that uses the word "insane" to describe anything should get taken away by men in grey jackets to a dark site and never returned :ugh:

[SASless]

Why train for both?

simple, winches have been known to fail.

sorry bitches, slide down the hill to safety, my coily cord retractor broke and I cant save you now. Buh bye, going back to base now.

There is a third way that works too you know.....using your logic....why not train for all three?

[Bell_ringer]

May be they have the pointy things on the front of the skids to make it easier to judge if they will have clearance or not.

Think those are part of the wirestrike kit and not standard skids.

[[email protected]]

That's interesting thanks. So he needed the time saved due to the weather conditions. Weather can change rapidly in the mountains so it is a fair call but you can't see any poor weather in the videos other than a little cloud at the top - if he was that concerned he could have just winched the casualty straight off the hill rather than deploying 3 people first.

There would clearly have been some time delay while the guys he dropped off assessed and prepared the casualtty and it may be that the weather deterioration happened then and he had to make a rapid extraction, although that isn't obvious from the videos at all. I'm sure they are very well versed in dealing with the vagaries of hill fog in the Alps.

Good use of the wirestrike kit as an ice axe:ok:

[Flying Bull]

Well, I´m not a mountain flyer but I know, it´s a standard practise.
Advantages are
- Quick(er) than whinching
- less power required compared to winching
- no winch required, no cycles on the winch, no risk of breaking it, snaggig the cable, getting it hot, having a fuse pop and all the other stuff which make a winch u/s
risks
- toching snow (probably a rock underneath) with the blades with all, what will happen then....

Personally I think, with experience, and it looks, he has a lot, and he can actually see the blades, I wouldn´t question his decision, bearing in mind it was an actual rescue and patches were already visible, so weather was also an issue to consider.
Guess it takes much more time to do all this with a winch and would also take much more concentration to keep the bird stationary witch all the white stuff around.

My 2 C worth ;-)

[GrayHorizonsHeli]

There is a third way that works too you know.....using your logic....why not train for all three?

budget constraints. Dont you realise what one of these things cost per hour?

[[email protected]]

Guess it takes much more time to do all this with a winch and would also take much more concentration to keep the bird stationary witch all the white stuff around. Look how quickly they get the casualty off by winch - it really isn't a long process - it would have taken longer for them to walk to the pickup point from the casualty.

[Cornish Jack]

Having spent many years in heli S&R, the only comments I would commend are those from Same again and John Eacott's 'nit picking'!

[Flying Bull]

Look how quickly they get the casualty off by winch - it really isn't a long process - it would have taken longer for them to walk to the pickup point from the casualty.

The winch went fast and was just one lift -
cause everything was prepared - watch the whole clip, he droped the team off, went off and came back to collect team and casulty

[retoocs]

My coworker that does ski patrol said they would just get dropped off some where close and easily accessible. Hike over, strap the guy to a toboggan, belay him down to a flat area where he can be safely and easily transported out.

[[email protected]]

The winch went fast and was just one lift -
cause everything was prepared - watch the whole clip, he droped the team off, went off and came back to collect team and casulty yes, but for the drop off, the time wasn't so important so he could have winched them down.

Then when it came to the recovery it would have only been two lifts instead of one - still pretty quick and hardly slower than having to do the nose-in landing and then winch the casualty (who would still have been already prepared).

As we keep saying, the flying was very competent - it is just the decision making and risk vs reward balance that is being debated.

Cornish Jack - Mountain SAR or Cornish coastal SAR? Just asking due to your handle.

[SASless]

GHH,

budget constraints. Dont you realise what one of these things cost per hour?

Gee....being so new to this game and all.....I suppose not......why don't you enlighten us will you?

If the Winch decides to pack it up and go on holiday....and the patient is in a place the helicopter cannot land or do a nose in or one skid touching landing.....and the Ground Team suggests there is no real safe way to get your guy off the mountain or to a safe landing spot.....how would you do it?

Do remember the reason you are out there....that being getting the victim and the ground crew off the mountain safe and sound!

Do you just throw your fixed line over the side and carry on or use your winch in a fixed length mode (if you can) and just get cracking without any training in the procedure?

​​​​​​​

:ugh:

[TUPE]

GHH,



Gee....being so new to this game and all.....I suppose not......why don't you enlighten us will you?

If the Winch decides to pack it up and go on holiday....and the patient is in a place the helicopter cannot land or do a nose in or one skid touching landing.....and the Ground Team suggests there is no real safe way to get your guy off the mountain or to a safe landing spot.....how would you do it?

Do remember the reason you are out there....that being getting the victim and the ground crew off the mountain safe and sound!

Do you just throw your fixed line over the side and carry on or use your winch in a fixed length mode (if you can) and just get cracking without any training in the procedure?



:ugh:

​​​​​​​If.

[Flying Bull]

yes, but for the drop off, the time wasn't so important so he could have winched them down.

Then when it came to the recovery it would have only been two lifts instead of one - still pretty quick and hardly slower than having to do the nose-in landing and then winch the casualty (who would still have been already prepared).

As we keep saying, the flying was very competent - it is just the decision making and risk vs reward balance that is being debated.

Cornish Jack - Mountain SAR or Cornish coastal SAR? Just asking due to your handle.

Well, I don’t know, how many winchings you have done, but I recall considerable time is spent getting in and out of the harness.
The patient and his assistance were prepared at a steeeeep hang so that they could be winched up, I m sure, they were assisted from the guys, who stepped in the helicopter.
So you think, winching them up and let one guy with a patient prepare for the second winch is a good idea?

[[email protected]]

Well, I don’t know, how many winchings you have done, but I recall considerable time is spent getting in and out of the harness. Only a few hundred but I've never stopped to count - a simple double strop lift takes seconds to complete, only the operating crew are going to use complete harnesses.

I m sure, they were assisted from the guys, who stepped in the helicopter.
So you think, winching them up and let one guy with a patient prepare for the second winch is a good idea? that is what happened since 2 of the 3 the guys who had stepped out stepped back in during the nose in, leaving the winchman/paramedic with the casualty, both of whom were then winched in. I guess the guy who was with the casualty when the team arrived was a fellow skier who continued down the mountain under his own steam.

So - one-skid-on delivery of 3 guys (winchman plus doctor? and assistant?) then nose-in recovery of doctor and assistant then winch recovery of winchman and casualty.

The one-skid-on delivery was quick and effective but the nose-in recovery could easily have been done by winching and taken the same time - the final recovery of winchman and casualty was exactly right.

[John Eacott]

Again, there is nothing unsafe about the ‘nose-in’ evolution which has been used for many, many years. crab@ I suspect you may have overlooked the backpacks which were part of the load taken on board prior to the double lift, but that would have added at least another hoist cycle to the mix. But it didn’t because an option to winching was used which was/is well practiced and safe. Those who query the OEI capability should be aware that the 117/145 has oodles of power and is unlikely to have been operated outside such requirements.

Another view from a similar op back 5-6 years ago, made more demanding by use of the left door. Same opinion from me about transitioning with the winch weight still outside, though!

https://youtu.be/CvUMapw9u-c

[SASless]

Memory serves me that the Austrian Police (the Austria without Kangaroo's) pioneered high mountain rescues using fixed line transfers......so I guess there are multiple right answers to the same problem.

They do it using mirrors and not long line style bubble windows too I am thinking.

[jimf671]

My understanding is that these guys have a very detailed understanding of the geometry at the front of this type for exactly this kind of op.

Moving before winching is complete? Normal in their patch. They are normally working at altitude and seem to be searching for translational lift at every opportunity. Have a look at some of their online videos and you'll see they are routinely winching out on approach and doing a very quick insertion as though it were a longline. Similar but in reverse during recoveries.

It's not what is normally done in some other territories but it's not the same conditions either. I've met a few of these guys and listened to their presentations about specific rescues. They present as very professional and they have a niche way of working for the conditions they encounter on their patch.

[SASless]

Another way to look at it....what is their accident rate as compared to other similar operations?

As long as they have found a way that works for them...and they retain an admirable safety record....then they deserve respect.

That they do different sure doesn't make them wrong.

[[email protected]]

John, no I hadn't missed the backpacks but a First Response Bag doesn't weigh enough to need an extra lift unless you have a very weight limited hoist - the medics are very unlikely to deploy on a steep, snowy slope with a heavy mass on their backs - that is asking for a slip down the hill.

No-one (apart from journos) has said that the nose-in technique is inherently unsafe but it does carry additional risk compared to winching or a side-on skid landing. Antone who has flown mountain rescues will have had to place the aircraft in a less than ideal position where a malfunction could have serious implications but sometimes it is absolutely required to save lives - in this case it wasn't.

Thoroughly agree that the space-walk on the winch in was completely unnecessary.:ok:

[John Eacott]

The geometry of the skids/nose touching the slope is such that the blade tips will not impact on the upslope as long as it is the same slope angle or less. A competent and capable pilot should have no problem judging the slope and thus carrying out the evolution.

crab@, the narrow skid set on the 117/145 is such that a side-on skid landing is less safe as the slope angle has to be less to ensure tip clearance, plus there is no other fuselage point to give an assurance in the same manner as the skid tips/nose touching as shown in the videos.

[hoistop]

Had a chance to talk to those guys and visited Chamonix base recently- they have qute a lot of training and a lot of actual practice, so definitelly proficient in what they do. Agree that nose-in brings quite some risk and if winch is available, might look questionable. But there were other factors affecting risk assesment (weather in particular) and they decided on the best course of action under circumstances.
I was also against such practices, as winch is available, am aware of many incidents/accidents occuring during such attempts, but a well trained/proficient crew can do it quite safely.
Do not underestimate exposure time. Crab, am aware of your winching procedures a little (tried it with 202. Squadron - great time!), but we decided to do it differently as hovering near rocks for ages winching in and out 30 metres of cable or more makes seconds extending to near eternity. And there is a time limit for hovering in RFM for some types.
"Spacewalking" might looks dangerous but our rescuers are aware that it does not really matter if you fall 30 or 300 metres, so we also winch in and out away from rocks as much as possible, thus exposing everybody for minimum time necessary - also falling rocks are often an issue to think of. (those triggered by helicopter and those that might hit us from above)

[[email protected]]

John - I take your point about nose-in versus lateral but he did something in between for the drop off - just the front of the right skid on the snow - again well flown but if nose in is better, why didn't he do that then?

Hoistop - don't confuse what we did on UK SAR with this operation - we had to winch 95% of the time since a nose-in landing wasn't an option and the larger disc and downwash of the Sea King meant we had to winch higher than you would in a smaller helo.

As for the falling - we tried whenever possible to keep the winchman and casualty as low as possible to the ground - it couldn't always be achieved but I would still rather fall 5 m than 50 m or 500 m. On a snowy slope at low height you at least have a chance of stopping yourself sliding whereas from a greater height you are probably going all the way to the bottom.

[Cornish Jack]

Crab - Everything EXCEPT in Cornwall ... that's just my origin! and the 'Jack' is from having operated in all crew positions except gunner and having been a 'Master' :O The concomitance of the "...all trades" phrase is noted - and accepted!:sad:

[Fareastdriver]

Northern Norway, late Seventies.

British Army lands his Scout on the snow and shuts it down to talk to various personnel. Whilst engrossed in this Scout slides down the hill into a snowbank.

Lots of radio traffic and OC Scouts fly out. He lands his Scout on the snow, shuts down and commences to bollock said pilot.

Scout slides down the hill into the first Scout.

[SASless]

FED,

I must ask....which Scout were you flying?

[Guide_Jim]

My understanding is that these guys have a very detailed understanding of the geometry at the front of this type for exactly this kind of op.

Moving before winching is complete? Normal in their patch. They are normally working at altitude and seem to be searching for translational lift at every opportunity. Have a look at some of their online videos and you'll see they are routinely winching out on approach and doing a very quick insertion as though it were a longline. Similar but in reverse during recoveries.

It's not what is normally done in some other territories but it's not the same conditions either. I've met a few of these guys and listened to their presentations about specific rescues. They present as very professional and they have a niche way of working for the conditions they encounter on their patch.

I would hope they understand the geometry, especially as this is a pretty standard manoeuvre for the PGHM. My understanding having visited them in the last few years is that this a/c (Chocas 74) has modified skids for this purpose.

Can't comment on the relative advantages of winching vs setting down skid light, but would make the observation that this is common in Chamonix at least.

What I do find interesting is the amount of Social Media coverage this has received. Of course it's comes purely down to outcome as to where this is perceived as positive or negative. Sadly, it would probably go viral in either case(!)...

[Two's in]

Amazing flying indeed! Are there sensors available much like parking sensors on cars which can indicate how close to something ahead the helicopter is?

Yes there is a warning system if you get too close to an object. There is an initial audio warning that sounds like rapid machine gun fire, this is accompanied by the cyclic being snatched from your hands, useful pieces of the main rotor blades then depart the aircraft at varying points around the compass, instantaneous and stupefying vibration may then remove the main rotor gear box from its mounting.

This is an excellent time to consult the Flight Reference Cards under "Actions on being a tool".

[JohnDixson]

Anyone look at the angle between the fwd skid/nose and the forward tip path compared to the angle between the side skid and the side tip path?

[SASless]

Two.....you are being a very naughty boy!:D

High Test Instant Columbian Coffee through one's nostrils is a quick way to wake up!:)

I think I might just start snorting the dry crystals and see how that works!

[212man]

I wonder what the MMI gauge looked like
The aircraft is still basically airborne so I’m sure it looks fine.

[FlyXLsa]

There's a good series on YouTube:

Mountain Rescue

https://youtu.be/ztDs0RGPjpM

These guys are GOOD!

[AnFI]

(JE)
Was this PC1? ie would that have worked with OEI ? Anyone KNOW?

[EMS R22]

Isn't it wonderful how we jump in criticising a crew without having the facts that prompted them to act as they did.


I agree. It seems to be the same old people from the same Country quick to stick the Knife in.....

[Fonsini]

I’m not rotary wing so I have no idea if this is impressive or not, so I thought I would ask the experts. Your assessment appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0z9HRC7hlU

[Hot and Hi]

Yes it is impressive. That’s why it was discussed on these pages years ago and at great length.

[GrayHorizonsHeli]

while that video is rated high on the skill level....this one lacks the same....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti_956wmWnI

[Agile]

Every time I see a toe in landing like that. I can't help having chill down my back at the thought of one of these guys un-boarding and immediately walking up hill into the blades.

I know they have been briefed but that is one of the stupid instinct that human and animal alike do, they like to go up hill. not sure the pilot could take the aircraft out quickly enough.

[alicopter]

On this subject, not sure if it has been talked about here but, on 6th June this year (2020), an EC 145 of the French Securite Civile, based in Pau (F-ZBQF, indicatif Dragon 64) toe-in landed at "Col de la Taillandiere", in the Pyrenees, while embarquing a casualty, They had a MR blade strike
on the mountain face... Luckily, no one was hurt but the machine was very badly damaged (but repairable). Respect to all these "special pilots" risking their own lifes to helps others....

[alicopter]

Every time I see a toe in landing like that. I can't help having chill down my back at the thought of one of these guys un-boarding and immediately walking up hill into the blades.

I know they have been briefed but that is one of the stupid instinct that human and animal alike do, they like to go up hill. not sure the pilot could take the aircraft out quickly enough.
Can't remember the exact year, 1974 or 1975, an ALAT "oil" did just that, not long after issuing a bulletin refering to this toe-in landing, slope landing procedure!!!...

[Aucky]

I’m not rotary wing so I have no idea if this is impressive or not, so I thought I would ask the experts. Your assessment appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0z9HRC7hlU

Doesn’t always go to plan, a few lucky escapes:

Jul 21 Sécurité Civile EC145 Mountain Rescue Main Rotor Blade Strike Leads to Tail Strike - Aerossurance (http://aerossurance.com/helicopters/sar-ec145-mrb-tail-strike/)

Oct 20 http://aerossurance.com/helicopters/mountain-rescue-blade-strike/

[Hot and Hi]

Thanks for this Aucky. I guess the margins are very small. And it makes a difference whether you pivot around the "toe", facing the slope, or around the skid, alongside the slope.

I appreciated the remark in the first report that "perversely" the better and experienced the pilot is, the more likely they are to get themselves into such a problem.