Aus to UK - Who has done it? [Archive]

Right Seat

19th Apr 2001, 20:28

There have been plenty of topics about Australian pilots wanting to take the plunge and move to the UK, convert licences, complete another ATPL theory course, spend a rediculous amount of money... all in search of a jet job.

I was just curious if there are any Oz PPRuNers out there who have been through it all and would care to share their experiences.

Interested to hear anything at all re:
- experience level before leaving Oz
- where the conversion and ATPL were done
- was it a good move
- what it ended up costing
- any advice to Oz pilots considering the move
- what are you flying now

Cheers,
RS :)

Luke SkyToddler

19th Apr 2001, 20:47

Well as you say there's been plenty of topics on it recently so you might want to use the 'search' function. Generally speaking, the pickings are fantastic if you're already airline experienced and looking for a quick command, but it's just as hard for the low timers here as it is back home. I've gone through it all in the past year and a half - email me if you want.

Right Seat

20th Apr 2001, 16:12

Thanks Luke, emailed you.
Did a search and had a look, but I'm still curious as to the final result of the Ozzies who have completed the process, especially under the new JAR.

British Midland Commuter employed some Oz pilots onto the Saab's I believe, a couple of years back... where are they now? Any mainstream BM?

[This message has been edited by Right Seat (edited 20 April 2001).]

Luke SkyToddler

21st Apr 2001, 02:54

Yeah mate ... that was not the most successful experiment in pilot recruitment according to rumour ... it seems that out of the ones that didn't manage to fail their UK ATPL exams, quite a few sodded off back home last year to fly for Virgin Blue. I suggest that in the short term, you should do a crash course in 'speaking like an aufentic Lahndahner' should you manage to wangle a BMC interview :)

Deck-Cam

21st Apr 2001, 22:34

Whoa there Luke. For the record I have it on good authority that none of the ex BMC Aussies are working for Virgin Blue. My informant also advises me that only one aussie returned downunder and he ended up asking for his job back at BMC. And in fact the whole process was the best thing for BMC at the time as it filled a need for experienced crew quickly. I also hear that there is no longer a crisis and any Aussies who are moving on (generally to bigger kit in the UK) are not leaving on bad terms.
Oh by the way all were successful in completeing their exams.
Sorry if this comes as a bit of a shock to you but BMC are still employing other nationals because funnily enough they are qualified for the job.
I'm sure there is room at Del Boys for the Lahndahners to let off steam.

redsnail

21st Apr 2001, 23:41

Currently doing the JAR ATPL theory course. I'll be able to give a lot more info at the end of the year.
Cost: Depends on the exchange rate!!
Experience: 4500 hours, of that 1250 is turbine.
Strongly advise that you have relevant airline and or turbine experience before you come over. Jet is good (but why would you leave...) turboprop is fine. Definitely make sure you have at least a full Australian ATPL before you leave Oz.
Of course, a British passport or right of abode is a must.

Right Seat

22nd Apr 2001, 19:27

Thanks for the replies :)

Reddo, with your experience, what exemptions have you been able to take advantage of? Will you still have to do the full 55 hr IFR course? The MCC?
If the above applies, how many hours are required to actually be exempt from the rule?

If you hold a UK passport and live in the UK, is it possible to apply for a Career Developement Loan or similar?? The cost of conversion is huge as we've all heard, so has the bank loan been the way to go for many of you?

If anyone has any info about this, replies appreciated :)

knighty

25th Apr 2001, 13:38

Right Seat,

I have done a little fishing myself regarding the conversion from Aussie ATPL to JAA.
I'm just about to start my training out here in Oz and just want to do the best I can out here before I start worrying about conversions. I may never go home to the UK anyway!
I'd appreciate any information you can dig up on the subject...
All the best! :)

Right Seat

25th Apr 2001, 20:06

Knighty,

I'm still in the very long process of gathering info... once I am satisfied I have enough accurate info I will pass it on. It seems that since the JAR/JAA was introduced, there are many things that are still very un-clear throughout the whole system... licence conversions being one part!!

Thats why I am so interested to hear from pilots who have been through the process recently and can offer advice etc...

I think the next step will be to actually contact some of the flying schools in the UK that deal with conversions and hopefully they can help with providing exact info on what is required to complete a licence conversion at my current experience level.

Thanks for the info so far and keep it coming :)
Anyone got answers to my previous questions re: loans and the Full IR course?

Cheers RS :)

Luke, u get my last email?

[This message has been edited by Right Seat (edited 25 April 2001).]

redsnail

25th Apr 2001, 23:38

As far as I can work out I can get a full exemption from the IR and the MCC as I have over 500 hours two crew. However, there is *some* risk that I may not get it as the literature says that they *may* give the exemption on single pilot two crew operations. It's all self assessment now. I just have to provide evidence from my previous employer that I did operate the airlcraft exclusively 2 crew and National Law legislated for it.It takes a bit of reading but it is all on the CAA's website.
Since I more or less qualify for the ATPL, it saves me a lot of money. Just need the exams and an ATP skills test. (as far as I can acertain)

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reddo...feral animal!

knighty

27th Apr 2001, 06:14

Right Seat,

Guess who's flying back to the UK tonight... :)
Going back for three weeks as I'm best man for my brother... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif
That means 23 hours of sniffing around the cockpit and picking brains... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif
Look out Emirates!!
Anyhow, I'll get to all those flying schools back home face to face... :) :)
Keep you posted...

Help me OB1...your my only hope

[This message has been edited by knighty (edited 27 April 2001).]

G-LOST

27th Apr 2001, 22:27

Deck Cam

Well said sir! I for one have met quite a few of the BMC antipodeans by now, and all of them seem to have done rather well. If the cap fits, so to speak...

Deck-Cam

28th Apr 2001, 10:04

Ahh G-LOST. I dont know how to tell you this but I found that Vinyl Vera Velvet repair kit you lost. Unfortunately I forwarded it to your relatives. They told me they would send it on. I also no a good tradesman who can remove the sharp edges on the body piercings.
Deck-Head

TooHotToFly

28th Apr 2001, 21:20

Right seat -

CDL's are available for pilot training, as long as you hold a British passport and you live in Britain. You can get up to 80% of the course fees if you are working (you can get more although it's not easy) or 100% of the course fees if you're unemployed, up to £8,000. You can then have up to a couple of years before you need to start paying it back.

Can't remember what the hours requirement for being exempt the CPL and IR skill tests but if your're not you need to do the following:

Pass the JAR ATPL written exams

Enough training to pass the CPL Skill Test (5-10 hours). Sit it in a MEP aircraft and you are granted a MEP Class rating without the need for another test.

The approved IR course - 55 hours but reduced to 50 if you hold a valid ICAO CPL.

Right Seat

29th Apr 2001, 16:28

TooHot, Thanks for the info :)

Just to get something straight though: Having 500 hrs multi crew time (in an aircraft that requires 2 crew) will exempt you from having to do a Full IR course? and the MCC?
I'd hate to think an already IR qualified pilot has to complete a full IR course when already current and up to speed, surely a few flights with a local instructor to make sure you can make the grade, then an OK to attempt the IR flight test. Why waste all that money?
Does the IR test cover the CPL test? Or do they have to be done separately?

How much do CAA medicals cost? Anyone know if you can do them in Aus?

Cheers :)

redsnail

29th Apr 2001, 16:47

All the info is on the CAA's website.
With 500 hours 2 crew will exempt you. You still need to do the ATP skills test in a two pilot aircraft though.
Re the medical, the initial must be done in a JAA country. Oz isn't one. If you have a full ATPL with +500 hours it will cost £189. Otherwise it is £400.
Exemptions *may* be given if you have 2 crew time on single pilot aircraft (eg Twotters and Bandits) if National Law says that they must be operated 2 crew. Eg CAO 82.3 para 8.1.
if you can't get this exemption, you must do the full IR agin in a JAR country ie 55 hours (minus 5 hours - I think). Also, you may have to do a MCC course (ie multi crew) and that can vary from £2000 to £4000.
So, in a nut shell, to save yourself a lot of money, get the 500 hours in a two crew operation (and the full Aus aka ICAO ATPL) and then come over.

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reddo...feral animal!

Right Seat

29th Apr 2001, 17:30

Thanks Reddo,
Bloody expensive Medical!
Got the +500hrs multi crew, just working on the Aus ATPL :)

I'll check out the CAA website too... would you recommend a logbook assesment or similar from the CAA before going over? Is this what you did?

redsnail

30th Apr 2001, 23:15

Assessments aren't done any more. All self assessing. So the lady at Gatwick said. They'll let you know when you go to hand in some application for a lic.... Helpful?? Not really. Just work through the maze of regs and you'll find out what you can and can't do.

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reddo...feral animal!