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Vendee
28th Dec 2018, 12:09
I assume that the out of service date for the GR4 is still March/April time? Does anyone know if there is a set timetable and will there be some sort of flypast of past and present Tornado bases or any other event planned to mark the end of this excellent aircraft's distinguished service?

nipva
28th Dec 2018, 13:23
Not many 'past' GR operating bases left. Bruggen, Laarbruch, Honington, & Cottesmore have all ceased flying. Even the peripheral GR hosts such as Bedford and St Athan have also wound down with only UWAS still flying from St Athan. So sadly, that leaves just Lossiemouth and Marham with perhaps a nod to Boscombe Down. .

TEEEJ
28th Dec 2018, 19:15
RAF Marham have organised a photo shoot on January 25th. I would imagine that all the places have been allocated.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/728x940/tornado_d4b893eb1f584368a26660f0c6aba4dc1b59bae5.jpg

NutLoose
28th Dec 2018, 19:19
Bollox, another shoot missed :( it would be nice to see some go to museums instead of the U.K. PLC's normal sell for scrap or to high a price for most museums.
It's all well and good trying to get back the maximum profit for the UK but sometimes that is to the detriment of future of the UK's aviation history, the F3 was an example, very few survived.

HaveQuick2
28th Dec 2018, 19:46
Just 16 F3s remain according to this list (out of a couple of hundred?)

ZE168 (N) Private Thorpe Wood, Selby
ZE204 FC, 25 Sqn marks Fire School Manston Fire School
ZE256 TP, also wears 'ZE343' Private Thorpe Wood, Selby
ZE340 GO, 9298M, 43 Sqn marks DSAE Cosford DSAE
ZE760 AP, 229 OCU marks Preserved, gate guard Coningsby
ZE836 36-12, MM7210 Museum Vigna di Valle, Italy
ZE887 GF, 43 Sqn marks Museum, inside Hendon, Barnet
ZE934 TA, 56 Sqn marks Museum, inside East Fortune, East Lothian
ZE936 (N) Museum Neatishead
ZE965 (N), 111 Sqn marks Private UK
ZE966 VT Preserved Hawarden - Chester Airport, Flintshire
ZE967 UT, 56/111 Sqn marks Preserved Leuchars, Fife
ZG751 Centre fuselage JARTS Boscombe Down
ZG795 (F) Stored Boscombe Down
ZH552 Preserved, gate guard Leeming
ZH553 RT, 56 Sqn marks Museum, outside Newquay Aerohub

List from Demobbed - Out of Service British Military Aircraft (http://www.demobbed.org.uk/)

Lima Juliet
29th Dec 2018, 18:57
Just 16 F3s remain according to this list (out of a couple of hundred?)

ZE168 (N) Private Thorpe Wood, Selby
ZE204 FC, 25 Sqn marks Fire School Manston Fire School
ZE256 TP, also wears 'ZE343' Private Thorpe Wood, Selby
ZE340 GO, 9298M, 43 Sqn marks DSAE Cosford DSAE
ZE760 AP, 229 OCU marks Preserved, gate guard Coningsby
ZE836 36-12, MM7210 Museum Vigna di Valle, Italy
ZE887 GF, 43 Sqn marks Museum, inside Hendon, Barnet
ZE934 TA, 56 Sqn marks Museum, inside East Fortune, East Lothian
ZE936 (N) Museum Neatishead
ZE965 (N), 111 Sqn marks Private UK
ZE966 VT Preserved Hawarden - Chester Airport, Flintshire
ZE967 UT, 56/111 Sqn marks Preserved Leuchars, Fife
ZG751 Centre fuselage JARTS Boscombe Down
ZG795 (F) Stored Boscombe Down
ZH552 Preserved, gate guard Leeming
ZH553 RT, 56 Sqn marks Museum, outside Newquay Aerohub

List from Demobbed - Out of Service British Military Aircraft (http://www.demobbed.org.uk/)

Missing from the list: ZA267 Tornado ADV in 25(F) Sqn markings at RAF Syerston. ZD889 Tornado F2 at Bury or emergency training. ZD900 is a Tornado F2 ground instructional airframe at RAF Lossiemouth. ZD936 Tornado F2 at the Boscombe Down Collection at Old Sarum. ZD938 is a Tornado F2 at Doncaster Museum.

So I make that 21 of the 165 Tornado ADVs that were made are still complete (there are more examples of cockpits and even an excellent complete simulator at Thorpe Camp) - so in excess of 12% preserved, which isn’t too bad really?

HaveQuick2
29th Dec 2018, 19:28
Missing from the list: ZA267 Tornado ADV in 25(F) Sqn markings at RAF Syerston. ZD889 Tornado F2 at Bury or emergency training. ZD900 is a Tornado F2 ground instructional airframe at RAF Lossiemouth. ZD936 Tornado F2 at the Boscombe Down Collection at Old Sarum. ZD938 is a Tornado F2 at Doncaster Museum.

So I make that 21 of the 165 Tornado ADVs that were made are still complete (there are more examples of cockpits and even an excellent complete simulator at Thorpe Camp) - so in excess of 12% preserved, which isn’t too bad really?

As I stated, that was a list of F3s (NOT F2s or ADVs)

NutLoose
30th Dec 2018, 01:32
Errmmm, preserved isn't how I would describe all of those on the list

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/858/41830668030_eea1e3dc15_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26Jr7fj)
Panavia Tornado F3 - ZE204 (https://flic.kr/p/26Jr7fj) by Liam Daniels (https://www.flickr.com/photos/54184803@N05/), on Flickr

NutLoose
30th Dec 2018, 01:33
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x800/zg751_cba524e7e1b8fdbfed5e60f84be8870e3794eeed.jpg

Buster15
30th Dec 2018, 14:18
As I stated, that was a list of F3s (NOT F2s or ADVs)

Understand the difference between F2 & F3 but both are ADVISED (Air Defence Variant).

57mm
30th Dec 2018, 14:27
ADVs were employed by RSAF and were essentially F3s with post Granby mods and AWSMDS selectable on demand.

Buster15
30th Dec 2018, 14:28
I assume that the out of service date for the GR4 is still March/April time? Does anyone know if there is a set timetable and will there be some sort of flypast of past and present Tornado bases or any other event planned to mark the end of this excellent aircraft's distinguished service?

It is difficult to overestimate the massive contribution that the Tornado has made to the UK as well as European air forces operations. Unfortunately for the UK it will soon fade into history.

I would therefore hope that the RAF will give this iconic jet a suitably respectful retirement and ensure that as many people as possible get the opportunity to say good by.

downsizer
30th Dec 2018, 15:22
I reckon those hoping for a big flypast will probably be a little let down.

LOMCEVAK
30th Dec 2018, 16:03
The final flight of the F3 was a 3-ship from Boscombe to Leeming via Coningsby and Leuchars. The final flight of a GR1 (ZA326) was a display role demo at Boscombe. The final flight of a F2 (ZD902,actually a highly modified F2A) was identified retrospectively when the Type Certificate was suddenly pulled one day! One pilot was involved in all 3 ....

weemonkey
30th Dec 2018, 17:52
Errmmm, preserved isn't how I would describe all of those on the list

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/858/41830668030_eea1e3dc15_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26Jr7fj)
Panavia Tornado F3 - ZE204 (https://flic.kr/p/26Jr7fj) by Liam Daniels (https://www.flickr.com/photos/54184803@N05/), on Flickr

nice skidmark though...and they all walked away....

weemonkey
30th Dec 2018, 17:55
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x800/zg751_cba524e7e1b8fdbfed5e60f84be8870e3794eeed.jpg
Wow! how to have x tons land on your head without even thinking about it.

typerated
30th Dec 2018, 18:38
Not many 'past' GR operating bases left. Bruggen, Laarbruch, Honington, & Cottesmore have all ceased flying. Even the peripheral GR hosts such as Bedford and St Athan have also wound down with only UWAS still flying from St Athan. So sadly, that leaves just Lossiemouth and Marham with perhaps a nod to Boscombe Down. .


How about Mach Loop, Thirlmere, OLF Selkirk- Moffat pass, Spadeadam, Tain, Cowden, Donna, Wainfleet and Holbeach

Green Flash
30th Dec 2018, 18:51
How about Mach Loop, Thirlmere, OLF Selkirk- Moffat pass, Spadeadam, Tain, Cowden, Donna, Wainfleet and Holbeach

....and finish it all off by slapping a few live 1000lb's into Garvie?

chevvron
1st Jan 2019, 12:35
In Oct 1986, I visited Bruggen on a sort of ATC camp without cadets, just a few adult staff the excuse being a looksee to see what the cadets would be doing the following summer. The last RAFG Jaguar Squadron stood down and was replaced by a Tornado Squadron that very week.
Seems such a short time ago now but please excuse my ignorance; what are the GR4s being replaced with?

Buster15
1st Jan 2019, 13:28
In Oct 1986, I visited Bruggen on a sort of ATC camp without cadets, just a few adult staff the excuse being a looksee to see what the cadets would be doing the following summer. The last RAFG Jaguar Squadron stood down and was replaced by a Tornado Squadron that very week.
Seems such a short time ago now but please excuse my ignorance; what are the GR4s being replaced with?

Typhoon FGR4 is being updated to take on the Tornado role.

I spent some time at RAF Bruggen and Laarbruch. It was an extremely busy flying operation with (I think) four squadrons at each base and close to 100 jets.
Typhoon has extremely big boots to fill once Tornado is retired.

chevvron
1st Jan 2019, 13:57
So the present Typhoon is emulating its namesake, the Hawker Typhoon ie originally designed to be a fighter but making its name as a useful tactical attack aircraft.
I believe it may have been 31 Sqdn at Bruggen but I can't positively be sure.

typerated
2nd Jan 2019, 03:41
....and finish it all off by slapping a few live 1000lb's into Garvie?

add a few more : Amble (Croquet Island), Jurby range , WD 8, MC 6, MC 9 - all back in the day

TEEEJ
8th Jan 2019, 19:52
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/583x557/tornadocamo_52fdf14a5033c409934902373fdcb3f3d2b90b99.jpg
https://twitter.com/RoyalAirForce/status/1082588532445712384

Vendee
8th Jan 2019, 21:10
Nice to see the old girl back in her original colours.

Harley Quinn
8th Jan 2019, 21:25
Nice to see the old girl back in her original colours.
Is it a full repaint or just the fin to save a few quid?

unmanned_droid
8th Jan 2019, 21:35
Yes please thank you please.

Personally, I think this is the best scheme.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1118/fbb5100463b2101ea3fb5026c51af951_7db738f72f9f7a2564489bd3786 fec5ce54343f1.jpg

BEagle
9th Jan 2019, 07:33
That 17(F) aircraft looks terrible! I hope that the 'final' GR4 looks rather better.

OldnDaft
9th Jan 2019, 07:55
Yes please thank you please.

Personally, I think this is the best scheme.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x1118/fbb5100463b2101ea3fb5026c51af951_7db738f72f9f7a2564489bd3786 fec5ce54343f1.jpg
Had my back seater in CZ when I left 17(F) - Bill Hartree was the pilot. Thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

weemonkey
9th Jan 2019, 07:57
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/583x557/tornadocamo_52fdf14a5033c409934902373fdcb3f3d2b90b99.jpg
https://twitter.com/RoyalAirForce/status/1082588532445712384

Proper bomber. Under the Weather-Under the Radar...none of this poncing about at mid, :E get down until you see the fear in their eyes as the swept wing nemis outruns it's own sound...

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/855x558/017_tornado_laydown_e14b13b66044deaa5a982912f6dec22842fddac2 .png

unmanned_droid
9th Jan 2019, 08:24
That 17(F) aircraft looks terrible! I hope that the 'final' GR4 looks rather better.

Ok, the gauntlet is a bit manky but, this harks back to the interwar years.

Come on then, what's your pick of the GR schemes?

Vendee
9th Jan 2019, 09:01
Ok, the gauntlet is a bit manky but, this harks back to the interwar years.

Come on then, what's your pick of the GR schemes?

I think the scheme that TEEEJ posted above with the crests of all the sqns who operated her is fine. Other than that, perhaps the lovely E for Emma but I might be biased because my name was painted on her side.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/717x478/7021_49167a520915144c51936c150b8c904c6ec58b1c.jpg
Image copyright Squadron Prints.

snapper1
9th Jan 2019, 09:25
My thanks to the GR4 crew for the flypast near Masham, North Yorkshire yesterday.

melmothtw
9th Jan 2019, 10:51
Is it a full repaint or just the fin to save a few quid?

You can see from the image that it is more than just the fin.

Dan Gerous
9th Jan 2019, 19:07
You can see from the image that it is more than just the fin.

Looks more like light and shade on one shade of grey, on the curved contour of the fuselage.

andrewn
9th Jan 2019, 19:14
add a few more : Amble (Croquet Island), Jurby range , WD 8, MC 6, MC 9 - all back in the day

yep - I spent many an evening listening to Mission and Rafair flights on the scanner, routing back home from their nightly lowfly in Wales and the Lakes.

"Rafair 500, flight of 3 Tornadoes, exiting low level 20m South of Shawbury, looking for the Lichfield 180 then climb 270 direct MC6"

happy days

Fishtailed
13th Jan 2019, 00:09
Originally Posted by nipva https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.pprune.org/showthread.php?p=10345957#post10345957)Not many 'past' GR operating bases left. Bruggen, Laarbruch, Honington, & Cottesmore have all ceased flying. Even the peripheral GR hosts such as Bedford and St Athan have also wound down with only UWAS still flying from St Athan. So sadly, that leaves just Lossiemouth and Marham with perhaps a nod to Boscombe Down. .
How about Mach Loop, Thirlmere, OLF Selkirk- Moffat pass, Spadeadam, Tain, Cowden, Donna, Wainfleet and Holbeach

It can't leave without visiting Warton and Samlesbury, we made it!! Thankfully the other users are keeping it flying for many years.

ShotOne
13th Jan 2019, 05:43
Any display/demo appearances scheduled before the end?

Buster15
13th Jan 2019, 13:08
It can't leave without visiting Warton and Samlesbury, we made it!! Thankfully the other users are keeping it flying for many years.

And Bristol I would hope where Rolls-Royce built and repaired many many hundreds of RB199 engines.

Dan Gerous
14th Jan 2019, 10:07
Any display/demo appearances scheduled before the end?

Rumours from the spotters, that there will be no more low level training flights before retirement.

BobbyHowie
14th Jan 2019, 12:51
Just had a GR4 over the house there. Ah, sounded great.

Evalu8ter
14th Jan 2019, 12:52
Dan,
If true probably a combination of not wishing to take undue safety / reputational risks near the end (careers could be effected.....). The temptation to push a little too hard on ‘fini flights’ knowing that an army of camera-toting spotters will be at the usual sites could be too much for some to resist. Seems a little draconian, and, subjectively, a sad way for a low-level penetrating bomber to finish.....

melmothtw
14th Jan 2019, 13:00
Rumours from the spotters, that there will be no more low level training flights before retirement.

Makes sense, they're training flights not jollies.

BVRAAM
14th Jan 2019, 19:35
Rumours from the spotters, that there will be no more low level training flights before retirement.

Unfortunately it's not a rumour, it's absolutely true. I had it confirmed to me directly by a GR4 aircrew member on social media over the weekend, triggered by a minor flying incident just before Christmas.
The aircrew seem pretty upset about it from what he said.

...and it's also just another kick in the teeth for those who love the Tornado, after the MOD's appalling "send off" effort. What is even the point in the camo Tornado now? They'd just as well keep it in the hangar, nobody's going to care about it if it can't do what the Tonka is supposed to do - thunder through a valley!

I am bitter, I won't lie. I love the Tornado. :(

Dan Gerous
14th Jan 2019, 19:57
I can see the point of it, no point in taking any risks, especially as they seem to be working at higher levels anyway. What's it like on a Squadron at a time like this, when you know your aircraft fleet has 2-3 months to go?

Wee Weasley Welshman
14th Jan 2019, 20:06
Sod that.

Someone needs to rag a GR4 at low level on high power all around the UK on its last day as tribute to a fine machine and a fine body of men and women who flew it, died in it and took it to war. Please tell me there is at least one senior officer in the RAF who can make that happen?

As a nation we would be diminished if this did not occur.

WWW

BVRAAM
14th Jan 2019, 20:18
Sod that.

Someone needs to rag a GR4 at low level on high power all around the UK on its last day as tribute to a fine machine and a fine body of men and women who flew it, died in it and took it to war. Please tell me there is at least one senior officer in the RAF who can make that happen?

As a nation we would be diminished if this did not occur.

WWW


I admire the sentiment, but please don't forget the often forgotten groundcrew - the men and women who spend thousands of hours of their lives modifying them, repairing them, servicing them, refuelling them, arming them and marshalling them. The RAF's public affairs personnel forgets them (I've never seen a groundcrew tribute on FB or Twitter - ever!), but nobody else should.

claron
15th Jan 2019, 08:42
BVRAAM As someone who spend 18 years as you say "modifying them, repairing them, servicing them, refueling them, arming them and marshaling them." Sometime we were overlooked.

However those 18 years had there good and bad days. Days which I will look back at with fond memories. I do hope that some of the jets will find loving homes, and not the scrap mans axes. They deserve better!!

Tiger G
15th Jan 2019, 09:20
Sod that.

Someone needs to rag a GR4 at low level on high power all around the UK on its last day as tribute to a fine machine and a fine body of men and women who flew it, died in it and took it to war. Please tell me there is at least one senior officer in the RAF who can make that happen?

As a nation we would be diminished if this did not occur.

WWW


Here, here brother !! :D

There are lots of low level swept pics floating around the spotter groups at the moment in tribute to this fantastic beast. It would be a shame if it didn't go out with a bang (not literally of course) !! ;)

nipva
15th Jan 2019, 13:10
38 years. Not a bad run - January 1981 to January 2019. I had the pleasure of flying the BBC camera man for the airborne shots of the first 3 aircraft at TTTE which from my logbook was on January 21st . According to Wikipedia TTTE officially opened 8 days later. The irony was that my Hawk was newer than the 3 Tonkas!

BEagle
15th Jan 2019, 14:19
Was it really 38 years ago that I was waiting to take-off leading a cine weave trip at Chivenor :{ when an odd-looking jet with a big fin and spindly undercarriage legs came in for a practice diversion?

Or 28 years ago that the 3-ship VC10K formation I was leading was trailing 8 x JP233-laden Tornados on night 1 of Gulf War 1?

Good jet - it's served us well!

Buster15
15th Jan 2019, 14:41
To those wise soles who would wish to see the GR4 given a send-off befitting such a brilliant and iconic jet, I fully agree.

I had the privilege and pleasure of working on the RB199 engine during both development, production and in-service support.
I spent time working at Warton, TTTE, Marham, Honington, Bruggen, Laarbruch, Coningsby, Leeming, Leuchars, Lossiemouth and St Athan.

Of course the engine had a number of problems in service but it was an extremely challenging design requirement given the technology and materials of the time.

To all those who worked on and of course flew in her, you can be immensely proud of what was achieved.
First flight 1974. First production delivery 1979 and just short of 1000 produced.

Tornado was designed to take on the might of the Warsaw Pack forced. It had to be good and it was /is still very good.

It will be remembered as a fantastically capable and reliable front line fighter/ bomber and should be treated with hugh respect.

Vendee
15th Jan 2019, 16:02
I had the privilege and pleasure of working on the RB199 engine during both development, production and in-service support.
I spent time working at Warton, TTTE, Marham, Honington, Bruggen, Laarbruch, Coningsby, Leeming, Leuchars, Lossiemouth and St Athan.

Of course the engine had a number of problems in service but it was an extremely challenging design requirement given the technology and materials of the time.



The RB199 certainly came a long way. I remember my first engine bay tour at Honnington in the late 80's when the mean time between removals was just 176 hours. The classic "VIB" caption followed by the boroscope inspection that confirmed that half of one of the HPT blades was missing. Still, after the introduction of single crystal HPT blades, the engines were doing 400 hours between removal. When I returned to the Tornado as a civvy in 2008, I was pleasantly surprised to find some engines were lasting 1000 hours. On the squadron, our biggest problem was during GW1 when the oil consumption for those long hot flights was marginal.

I do hope they manage to sort out a farewell flypast for the Tornado. Yes, I know the Lightning, Vulcan etc were iconic and who doesn't love them but I reckon that the Tonka has been our most utilised strike aircraft in combat situations since WW2

Buster15
15th Jan 2019, 16:37
The RB199 certainly came a long way. I remember my first engine bay tour at Honnington in the late 80's when the mean time between removals was just 176 hours. The classic "VIB" caption followed by the boroscope inspection that confirmed that half of one of the HPT blades was missing. Still, after the introduction of single crystal HPT blades, the engines were doing 400 hours between removal. When I returned to the Tornado as a civvy in 2008, I was pleasantly surprised to find some engines were lasting 1000 hours. On the squadron, our biggest problem was during GW1 when the oil consumption for those long hot flights was marginal.

I do hope they manage to sort out a farewell flypast for the Tornado. Yes, I know the Lightning, Vulcan etc were iconic and who doesn't love them but I reckon that the Tonka has been our most utilised strike aircraft in combat situations since WW2

The initial equiax HPT blades were always going to be the weak spot. The turbine temperatures were way above the melting point of the material and the cooling holes so small. That was why the modular design was to give quick access to the HPT.

As you say the single crystal fixed that brilliantly. The very long flights pushed the oil system to its limits. It was a fantastic achievement to get engines installed for over 1000 hours.

It is still a surprisingly modern engine despite its age and it's thrust to weight ratio is still outstanding.

Tornado has been a terrific workhorse for nearly 40 years and arguably the most significant RAF fast jet having been in service for almost 40% of the life of the RAF.
Happy days eh.

just another jocky
15th Jan 2019, 16:43
What did the Harrier do for its final flight?

Green Flash
15th Jan 2019, 17:00
Could we describe the Tornado as the Mosquito of its day, I wonder?

TEEEJ
15th Jan 2019, 19:39
What did the Harrier do for its final flight?

There was a 16-ship flypast.

QUdUHVZ5f8A

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1338886/Harrier-jets-skies-final-farewell.html

OffshoreSLF
15th Jan 2019, 20:04
Well, I have my own very personal memories of the Tornado.

As someone who grew up always dreaming of being a pilot, but sadly was born with defective eyesight which meant that flying (and many other careers) was a non-starter, being invited to visit Lossiemouth was absolutely wonderful. I had a great day, and attach a picture of myself in the "drivers seat" of a Tornado

There were a couple of aircraft going out on a night exercise, and would I like to go and see them take off. I thought we'd be some distance away, but we got into a landrover and drove to the end of the runway. The second picture shows how close we were when they started their takeoff run.

A great day, and memories I'll treasure for the rest of my days.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1052x740/tornado_1_61b40e9a34d8c921ce6609b9ed1151018d91518c.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1042x726/tornado_4_0d014f19e2f03517a282b70247e00b2f117a9480.jpg

Flying Palm Tree
15th Jan 2019, 20:46
nice skidmark though...and they all walked away....
I see nothing that can't be fixed with a couple of rolls of duck take and a shifter.

drustsonoferp
16th Jan 2019, 20:45
There was a 16-ship flypast.

QUdUHVZ5f8A

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1338886/Harrier-jets-skies-final-farewell.html

A 16-ship, or 4 x 4-ships?

Phil_R
16th Jan 2019, 21:45
Military equipment is a bit like James Bond actors. The one that's big when you were a kid is the one that sticks in your memory.

I was a kid during the gulf war.

P

RAFEngO74to09
17th Jan 2019, 01:10
The Op DESERT STORM / Op GRANBY Air Campaign started 28 years ago tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaW-eyrnixY&

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQgebbhpap8&t=9s

EXFIN
22nd Jan 2019, 22:13
I would hope the National Arboretum Memorial in Staffordshire would be high on the list. Commemorate the fallen Tornado Aircrew.

Rhino power
23rd Jan 2019, 13:30
The GR.4 in the 'retro' grey/green camo has flown today, looks really good too!
(Link to images with the kind permission of Rob Yates via the Fightercontrol FB group)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/162226886961/permalink/10155784301726962/

-RP

Rhino power
23rd Jan 2019, 13:33
And for those who don't do/refuse to do FB, here's the main pic from the link in my previous post...

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x800/50586660_d7610bbdc6394fb588f2bdfb97830214932aceb1.jpg
-RP

melmothtw
23rd Jan 2019, 13:50
I see they managed to go the whole hog, including the black radome. The 'pink' Granby Tornado was spoiled somewhat by the modern grey radome. In my opinion, at least.

Vendee
23rd Jan 2019, 13:59
I see they managed to go the whole hog, including the black radome. The 'pink' Granby Tornado was spoiled somewhat by the modern grey radome. In my opinion, at least.

The Granby GR1's had the standard black radome.

melmothtw
23rd Jan 2019, 14:01
Yes, but the 'special' Granby scheme recently rolled out did not.

Vendee
23rd Jan 2019, 14:02
Nice photo Rhino Power. It does look good back in those colours.

Vendee
23rd Jan 2019, 14:03
Yes, but the 'special' Granby scheme recently rolled out did not.

Oh sorry.... I don't recall seeing that.

melmothtw
23rd Jan 2019, 14:08
https://theaviationist.com/2016/02/20/desert-pink-special-colored-tornado/

claron
23rd Jan 2019, 15:22
Proper Colours !!! , Just Missing the XV . But I'm biased.

Buster15
23rd Jan 2019, 16:42
Nice photo Rhino Power. It does look good back in those colours.

Proper fighting machine that excelled at the role it was designed for.

I remember people saying how disappointing it was at Air Shows (Role Demo changed that). But of course it was not designed to just impress the public.
It was designed to give the Warsaw Pact forces a really bad day...

Vendee
23rd Jan 2019, 17:08
https://theaviationist.com/2016/02/20/desert-pink-special-colored-tornado/

You are right.... doesn't look so good.

Vendee
23rd Jan 2019, 17:09
Proper Colours !!! , Just Missing the XV . But I'm biased.

I agree with you.... but I'm also biased :)

Manandboy
24th Jan 2019, 11:01
Rhino Power: Excellent pic, jet looks good. The only issue I have is with the dates on the fin. I was on the staff at TTTE at the beginning of 1981, with the aircraft very much in service (if not very much serviceable!). Seem to have lost yet another year of my life!

Vendee
24th Jan 2019, 12:58
Rhino Power: Excellent pic, jet looks good. The only issue I have is with the dates on the fin. I was on the staff at TTTE at the beginning of 1981, with the aircraft very much in service (if not very much serviceable!). Seem to have lost yet another year of my life!

I think the dates refer to its operational squadron service.

BVRAAM
24th Jan 2019, 15:12
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x654/50816677_10155613438592574_5167175914303258624_n_0c407c8997f fd9467be91cf9d1fc35c88bf4ca2e.jpg
RAF Marham Station Commander, Gp Capt Ian "Cab" Townsend standing with two other aircrew, wearing the three Tornado Farewell badges by Squadron Prints. Photo credit: Squadron Prints.

Easy Street
24th Jan 2019, 19:11
The 1982-2019 dates are the right ones, in my view anyway. There are only 2 “start” dates that will count for much in the historical record: the first flight in 1974 and the declaration of operational squadron service in 1982. Everything in between, including first production deliveries and formation of training units, are dates that may mean a lot to those who were there but hold no particular significance beyond being milestones on the way to a capability. You can see that today with the F35 Force; who knows or cares when our pilots started to be trained? The recent declaration of IOC marks the start date for that as a fighting outfit.

1982 it is!

Vendee
24th Jan 2019, 19:14
I quite like the centre badge. Squadron Prints don't seem to have them on their website yet.

BEagle
25th Jan 2019, 07:05
That retro paint job looks superb!

I remember in 1979 or 1980 when the first 'wraparound' painted Vulcan arrived at Scampton for six-seventeen squadron - it too looked very smart.

In 1982 there was actually a study to investigate whether the Tornado could be used in the South Atlantic War. Although Tornado documentation was rather secret squirrel, when an ODM was finally made available the planners dissolved into fits of giggles when they started some calculations....

Not a strategic asset, but excellent work in GW1.

weemonkey
25th Jan 2019, 09:45
A 16-ship, or 4 x 4-ships?


At least they did it in style not badges.

Point of order though. When did aircrew start creasing their flying coveralls.

Dan Gerous
25th Jan 2019, 11:05
That retro paint job looks superb!

I remember in 1979 or 1980 when the first 'wraparound' painted Vulcan arrived at Scampton for six-seventeen squadron - it too looked very smart.

In 1982 there was actually a study to investigate whether the Tornado could be used in the South Atlantic War. Although Tornado documentation was rather secret squirrel, when an ODM was finally made available the planners dissolved into fits of giggles when they started some calculations....

Not a strategic asset, but excellent work in GW1.


They got 2 Buccs down there in 1983, so surely the Tornado could have made it?

weemonkey
25th Jan 2019, 11:09
They got 2 Buccs down there in 1983, so surely the Tornado could have made it?

I'm sure the F3 was there when the F4 did their farewell beat ups...

melmothtw
25th Jan 2019, 11:11
They got 2 Buccs down there in 1983, so surely the Tornado could have made it?

in 82 you'd have to get them back too.

Timelord
25th Jan 2019, 12:21
Bit of a difference between a one way ferry trip covered in external fuel tanks and a two way war mission carrying weapons.

Vendee
25th Jan 2019, 12:35
I'm sure they would have been capable of tanking there and back from Ascension but based on my GW1 experience, I'm certain they would have run out of engine oil.

Buster15
25th Jan 2019, 13:55
I'm sure they would have been capable of tanking there and back from Ascension but based on my GW1 experience, I'm certain they would have run out of engine oil.

That was the biggest risk at that time.
The early Mk101 engines had a pretty inefficient Breather system that allowed a fair amount of oil to be discharged overboard from the external gearbox.

This resulted in relatively high oil consumption (HOC).
The spec was 0,5l/hr which most engines achieved but the trend increased with age.
High speed low level also increased oil consumption.
The usable oil was about 8.5l and hence engines using more than the limit could have been oil limited.
This was resolved by improving the engine internal oil system and gearbox breather system as well as increasing the usable oil content.

BVRAAM
25th Jan 2019, 15:38
I quite like the centre badge. Squadron Prints don't seem to have them on their website yet.

They were released Wednesday evening and the stock set aside for the online shop, sold out in hours.
Whatever they didn't sell at the Marham Enthusiast's Day today should be listed later, I would have thought.

I bought the set.

BVRAAM
25th Jan 2019, 16:12
One of the first images from Wednesday's shoot.

The photoship was ZA449/020.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1113x540/50714490_10161302255080024_3245765562214645760_o_fc1451a8fd3 a157d048fa5ea5c876346c54b4bf5.jpg

Harley Quinn
25th Jan 2019, 18:37
At least they did it in style not badges.
Rather more difficult to put on air displays when the force is still successfully achieving ongoing ops,

Vendee
25th Jan 2019, 20:41
That was the biggest risk at that time.
The early Mk101 engines had a pretty inefficient Breather system that allowed a fair amount of oil to be discharged overboard from the external gearbox.

This resulted in relatively high oil consumption (HOC).
The spec was 0,5l/hr which most engines achieved but the trend increased with age.
High speed low level also increased oil consumption.
The usable oil was about 8.5l and hence engines using more than the limit could have been oil limited.
This was resolved by improving the engine internal oil system and gearbox breather system as well as increasing the usable oil content.

Even the Mk103 had issues with oil consumption and all the GW1 engines had their breather carbon seals replaced. ISTR the Mk103's had better cooling for the module 11 bearing overheat issues and of course the all attitude oil tank rather than the clunky SLS feature of the Mk101.

langleybaston
25th Jan 2019, 21:16
A thought regarding TTTE.
The Cottesmore S Met O, Pat Stevens, was a very innovative and proactive scientist and pioneered very early use of computer displays to disseminate Met. around the base. This was in spite of official [Met Office] lack of enthusiasm. TTTE were well served by his office. Thank you Pat!

Cat Techie
25th Jan 2019, 21:58
As an Air Cadet , I saw the Vailant ta Marham (and sat in it). There was a Tornado in one of the Hangars as well. It was 1981. As others have said, it was in service with the RAF then.

The B Word
26th Jan 2019, 00:16
The F3 had bigger oil tanks than the GR - I’ve done more than 10 hrs in a Tonka without running out of oil in accordance with the RTS.

Vendee
26th Jan 2019, 09:09
The F3 had bigger oil tanks than the GR - I’ve done more than 10 hrs in a Tonka without running out of oil in accordance with the RTS.
As far as I'm aware, the Mk104 engine in the F3 had the same oil tank as the Mk103 engine in the later GR1 and current GR4. However at the time of the Falklands conflict, the only Tornado engine in town was the Mk101 which as previously stated had higher oil consumption.

The Mk103 engine was initially fitted to the Germany based squadrons. I don't know when the Mk101 was finally retired but we were certainly still using them at Honington in 1989. I would imagine that TTTE were the last unit to use them.

Vendee
26th Jan 2019, 14:38
From the BBC website. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-47013735

"The jet's capabilities will be transferred to the Typhoon and there is set to be a "finale flypast" around the UK to commemorate places that have contributed to the Tornado over the years, according to Station Commander Group Captain Ian Townsend."

It also mentions a flypast at Marham on 14th March for the disbandment parades.

Buster15
26th Jan 2019, 15:35
The F3 had bigger oil tanks than the GR - I’ve done more than 10 hrs in a Tonka without running out of oil in accordance with the RTS.

Not correct I am sorry. The F3 Mk104 engine was functionality the same as the Mk103 engine in the GR4.
The only difference was the longer 104 Exhaust System and the DECU.

The capability for significantly longer flights was the result of improvements to the oil system that reduced oil consumption.

The B Word
26th Jan 2019, 17:18
^^^^I need to sack the ground school instructor then!! :ok:

Vendee
26th Jan 2019, 17:50
^^^^I need to sack the ground school instructor then!! :ok:
Not really. He probably meant that the F3 had a larger oil capacity than the GR1 with its original Mk 101 engines and he would have been correct in that respect.

Exrigger
26th Jan 2019, 19:18
Vaguely remember two RAF Coningsby, 229 OCU F2 aircraft, doing an oil usage trial by flying non-stop to Cyprus, cleaning the cockpit out on return took a little while longer than usual, and there was something on the outbound trip about the rumoured use of HF and a possible UFCM, but age and memory maybe has affected my recollections. I believe oil consumption was not considered an issue after this. Maybe someone remembers some more detail and can confirm, or refute, those recollections.

Also from my perspective from working on virtually all marks of Tornado, I will miss the sight and sounds of them flying around, hope I see some of the flypasts around my way.

Buster15
26th Jan 2019, 19:18
Not really. He probably meant that the F3 had a larger oil capacity than the GR1 with its original Mk 101 engines and he would have been correct in that respect.

Possibly.
I cannot remember the exact oil tank capacities but they were quite similar.

The 101 engine had an oil tank that conformed to the LP Compressor Casing. But it was not 'all attitude'.
So the 103 oil tank was circular in section to allow all attitude operation.

As a result I don't think there was much difference between the two capacities.

As I mentioned it was primarily down to oil system improvements that allowed significantly longer flight times.

Just This Once...
27th Jan 2019, 10:36
The Mk103 engine was initially fitted to the Germany based squadrons. I don't know when the Mk101 was finally retired but we were certainly still using them at Honington in 1989. I would imagine that TTTE were the last unit to use them.

I am sure there was a plan on Mk103 roll-out but it seemed to be pulled in all directions. The first idea seemed to be to equip the UK operational squadrons with the 103, as they would operate heavier and longer sorties (back then even AAR probes were a rare sight on the Germany-based squadrons). Then the plan shifted with idea that the UK would keep a common standard across the UK op and training fleets. This plan was upset further by the (UK based) batch 7 jets being equipped with 103s at build (sometimes being swapped to 101s) post delivery; then the mixed bag of engines on the converted GR1As; then the big stir of jets and engines for Granby and finally the GR1 draw-down, relocation plan and op/diamond mini-fleet-within-fleet. The net effect even in the mid-90s the engine type was something you noted at the F700 stage, especially with the de-rating of the 103 and the latest wire-locking-of-the-month with the TBT datum switch.

About the only thing I ever noticed was that the TTTE jets always felt quick in the dry range and that a fully-rated 103 in a new batch 7 jet, with just pylons fitted, accelerated through M1.0+ quicker than we both realised (sorry Blackpool). I seem to remember that these jets were delivered without the ramp actuator system in place, rather than just deactivated. It would have been nice to see just how quick they could have gone - the faster you were the faster you got faster!

As an aside the cut-and-shut GR1A (cannot remember the tail number) refused to go above M1.0 in standard Deci ACMI fit. It also yawed a fraction with an unnerving canopy howl when you tried to push it. It was also on the 'just say no' list of aircraft for display flying.

The B Word
27th Jan 2019, 10:42
JTO

On the GTI version of the jet (the all grey versions before the GR4 copied the scheme) the ramps were still enabled and usable - M2.0 was achievable with a little kick in the back when the ramps came in at M1.3(ish). :ok:

Just This Once...
27th Jan 2019, 11:31
I did get a couple of F3 back-seat trips with a mate down on 1435 and I think the most impressive bit was the acceleration from around 450kts+. The non-turning, more burning and slippy version was exceedingly quick at low level. Even easier to breach the exact same speed limits we had on the GR1, if you remembered to toggle the HUD speed display....

The first abridged trip was enlightening both for the much-improved view from the boot and the confidence displayed slamming into full burner at low-speed and high-ish AoA - something we treated with more caution on the GR1... only to be treated to a lot of banging and thumps through the aircraft with the stagnation of one and the loss of the other (both recovered ok but one of them had to be changed afterwards). Somethings were different, others just the same!

Buster15
27th Jan 2019, 13:21
I did get a couple of F3 back-seat trips with a mate down on 1435 and I think the most impressive bit was the acceleration from around 450kts+. The non-turning, more burning and slippy version was exceedingly quick at low level. Even easier to breach the exact same speed limits we had on the GR1, if you remembered to toggle the HUD speed display....

The first abridged trip was enlightening both for the much-improved view from the boot and the confidence displayed slamming into full burner at low-speed and high-ish AoA - something we treated with more caution on the GR1... only to be treated to a lot of banging and thumps through the aircraft with the stagnation of one and the loss of the other (both recovered ok but one of them had to be changed afterwards). Somethings were different, others just the same!

Wow. You lucky thing. Best I had was a number of ground runs.

By the way. If anybody would like to see pictures of the latest paint schemes and operations at Marham, you can look at 'fighter control' website at latest military photos.
I am not plugging this website; merely pointing it out.

Vendee
27th Jan 2019, 13:59
Wow. You lucky thing. Best I had was a number of ground runs.

By the way. If anybody would like to see pictures of the latest paint schemes and operations at Marham, you can look at 'fighter control' website at latest military photos.
I am not plugging this website; merely pointing it out.

I'm guessing from your posts that you were a RR rep on Tornado?

Buster15
27th Jan 2019, 14:35
I'm guessing from your posts that you were a RR rep on Tornado?

Almost. I worked in service engineering within RR but did work very closely with our reps.

How about you my friend.

Vendee
27th Jan 2019, 14:55
Almost. I worked in service engineering within RR but did work very closely with our reps.

How about you my friend.

I was just groundcrew. I did a couple of squadron tours on the GR1 at Laarbruch and Marham as well as a couple of engine bay tours doing deep strip on the Mk101 (Honington) and the Mk103 (Marham). After that I did 12 years in civilian aviation before returning to Marham as a civvy on the GR4 for a while.

weemonkey
27th Jan 2019, 15:36
Rather more difficult to put on air displays when the force is still successfully achieving ongoing ops,

Very nicely done Mr Quinn.

Buster15
28th Jan 2019, 12:35
I was just groundcrew. I did a couple of squadron tours on the GR1 at Laarbruch and Marham as well as a couple of engine bay tours doing deep strip on the Mk101 (Honington) and the Mk103 (Marham). After that I did 12 years in civilian aviation before returning to Marham as a civvy on the GR4 for a while.

Nothing wrong with just being groundcrew. I visited the engine bays at both Honington and Marham on a number of occasions.

Were you at Marham just before the engine repair transferred to RR as part of ROCET.

Marham was always extremely busy as you will know.
Did you meet any of the reps there. Initially we had 3 reps there as with the early TTTE. Honington had 2 initially but we went to one rep per station later on.

57mm
28th Jan 2019, 13:46
Vendee, nobody is just groundcrew; without the professionalism and commitment from our techies, we would never have got off the ground, let alone survived our various scrapes. Hand salute.

Buster15
28th Jan 2019, 14:00
Vendee, nobody is just groundcrew; without the professionalism and commitment from our techies, we would never have got off the ground, let alone survived our various scrapes. Hand salute.

Same for me. Tornado was not the simplest aircraft to keep serviceable. It requires a lot of skills and knowledge and experience to do that.
Hand salute from me as well.

But. Seeing it and feeling it accelerate down the runway makes that all worthwhile.

Vendee
28th Jan 2019, 18:36
Nothing wrong with just being groundcrew. I visited the engine bays at both Honington and Marham on a number of occasions.

Were you at Marham just before the engine repair transferred to RR as part of ROCET.

Marham was always extremely busy as you will know.
Did you meet any of the reps there. Initially we had 3 reps there as with the early TTTE. Honington had 2 initially but we went to one rep per station later on.

I ended my RAF career in the engine bay at Marham in 1994. I returned to Marham as a civvy in 2008 but on Tornado not the engine bay. Oddly enough a couple of years later I was asked if I was interested in a temp job at Bristol, apparently teaching the Bristol staff all about RB199 deep strip and repair. By this time I was working on the Apache full time so I declined. As for RR reps, I obviously knew a few but the only ones I remember are Seamus O'Conner and Brian Weech (spelling?). Also John Brand at Marham but we worked together at Honington some 20 years earlier.

Buster15
28th Jan 2019, 19:01
I ended my RAF career in the engine bay at Marham in 1994. I returned to Marham as a civvy in 2008 but on Tornado not the engine bay. Oddly enough a couple of years later I was asked if I was interested in a temp job at Bristol, apparently teaching the Bristol staff all about RB199 deep strip and repair. By this time I was working on the Apache full time so I declined. As for RR reps, I obviously knew a few but the only ones I remember are Seamus O'Conner and Brian Weech (spelling?). Also John Brand at Marham but we worked together at Honington some 20 years earlier.

Excellent. I know Seams and Brian well but not John.

The transfer of RB199 repair from Marham to Bristol went well with some help from the RAF.

It is interesting that Bristol built engines eventually turned out to be more reliable. A number of reasons which I ought not go into in this forum.

Anyway, this will all pass into history in a couple of months for the UK while German, Italy and Saudi Arabia fly on for a number of years.

Mr Bollo
29th Jan 2019, 08:57
Anybody who ever met him would remember Seamus!

Vendee
29th Jan 2019, 11:05
Anybody who ever met him would remember Seamus!

Seamus was very knowledgeable and had a great sense of humour. Brian Weech didn't quite get the service sense of humour (at least in his early days at Honington) and I have to admit that I was responsible for him going into the officers mess for lunch wearing a set of dayglo cowboy spurs on his heels. He wasn't a happy bunny :=

Vendee
29th Jan 2019, 11:38
Excellent. I know Seams and Brian well but not John.

The transfer of RB199 repair from Marham to Bristol went well with some help from the RAF.

It is interesting that Bristol built engines eventually turned out to be more reliable. A number of reasons which I ought not go into in this forum.

Anyway, this will all pass into history in a couple of months for the UK while German, Italy and Saudi Arabia fly on for a number of years.

In my days, engines were pulled initially due to mechanical failure i.e. M08 blades failing and combustion chamber unzipping. Other than that, they were pulled when the thrust was below the minimums during the pyro clean/cal.

A lot of people hated working in the engine bay because of the repetitive nature but I enjoyed the challenge of getting my engine pass off with the required thrust. It was easy if you were supplied brand new modules to build your engine but that never happened. If you were given a HP comp with 300 hours on it, you knew it would be a struggle because although it was life'd at 1200 hours, after 300hrs, the internal seals were worn and it was losing thrust. The trick was to try and manage the other rotating seal clearances throughout the engine. When the manual gave a min and max clearance, you had to aim for the minimum to give you a chance. I don't recall us having any problems with badly built engines. (edit... just remembered one which self destructed on the test bed)

When I last popped into Marham engine bay in 2009, they were operating a pulse line system where the teams didn't get to build the entire engine, just part of it. It must have been soul destroying and I know that morale was at rock bottom.

Buster15
29th Jan 2019, 12:37
In my days, engines were pulled initially due to mechanical failure i.e. M08 blades failing and combustion chamber unzipping. Other than that, they were pulled when the thrust was below the minimums during the pyro clean/cal.

A lot of people hated working in the engine bay because of the repetitive nature but I enjoyed the challenge of getting my engine pass off with the required thrust. It was easy if you were supplied brand new modules to build your engine but that never happened. If you were given a HP comp with 300 hours on it, you knew it would be a struggle because although it was life'd at 1200 hours, after 300hrs, the internal seals were worn and it was losing thrust. The trick was to try and manage the other rotating seal clearances throughout the engine. When the manual gave a min and max clearance, you had to aim for the minimum to give you a chance. I don't recall us having any problems with badly built engines. (edit... just remembered one which self destructed on the test bed)

When I last popped into Marham engine bay in 2009, they were operating a pulse line system where the teams didn't get to build the entire engine, just part of it. It must have been soul destroying and I know that morale was at rock bottom.

Vendee my friend.
Firstly please don't think that I or anyone else for that matter were accusing the RAF Engine Bays of building bad engines. That is certainly not the case.
Moreover, optimising the seal clearances especially S14 at the rear of the HPC was the most important thing to do.

When the single crystal HPT and IPT blades were introduced, the prime cause of engine removal widened out with no single dominant cause.

I had retired before the transfer from Marham to Bristol but I kept in contact with the guys working on RB199 and they were very proud of the reduction in test bed rejects as well as the reduction in the engine removal rate.
I am aware of some of the reasons but it would not be right for me to post them on an open forum.

Anyway as I said; it will soon pass into history which I am sure for your (because I can tell you were passionate about it) and for me is a real shame.

NB. I would be happy to communicate with you but not via pprune.

Buster15
29th Jan 2019, 17:30
Vendee.
Just occurred to me. Did you do the Engine strip and build course at Cottesmore in D Hanger and was the course conducted by RR.

Reason I ask is that I carried out the course with a colleague from early 1980 until the RAF took the course over.

Vendee
29th Jan 2019, 18:25
Vendee.
Just occurred to me. Did you do the Engine strip and build course at Cottesmore in D Hanger and was the course conducted by RR.

Reason I ask is that I carried out the course with a colleague from early 1980 until the RAF took the course over.

My memory is a bit hazy there. I did six weeks at Cottesmore in 1988 on my Tornado course followed by two weeks at Bristol for the RB199 part. I've got a vague recollection of going back to Cottesmore for 3 days on what was described as a "deep strip course" but it was all classroom stuff of very little practical value. I learned the practical side "on the job" at Honington. Going back to your previous post, please feel free to PM me regarding anything you don't want to discuss in open forum.

frodo_monkey
31st Jan 2019, 16:09
Tornado has landed from her last operational sortie... I for one will miss the old girl very much - she kept my ass safe for over 200 green logbook entries.

What a jet, and what a fine contribution it made to the Royal Air Force :)

Buster15
31st Jan 2019, 16:38
Tornado has landed from her last operational sortie... I for one will miss the old girl very much - she kept my ass safe for over 200 green logbook entries.

What a jet, and what a fine contribution it made to the Royal Air Force :)

Slightly different to what is reported in Flight Global.

It reports that 8 of the remaining 22 Tornado GR4 are still on operations from Cyprus and those operations will cease at the end of February when the jets will return to Marham.

Whichever, you are absolutely right about how significant this remarkable fast jet has been to the RAF - for nearly 40 of its 100 year history.

The good news is that there will still be over 250 Tornado in service with German, Italy and Saudi Arabia for at least till 2025.

frodo_monkey
31st Jan 2019, 16:46
It’s definitely done it’s last trip in Shader; that was direct from the crew! Jets come home next week then flypasts and drinking until OSD.

pba_target
31st Jan 2019, 17:15
It’s definitely done it’s last trip in Shader; that was direct from the crew! Jets come home next week then flypasts and drinking until OSD.
What he said!

Buster15
1st Feb 2019, 12:55
It’s definitely done it’s last trip in Shader; that was direct from the crew! Jets come home next week then flypasts and drinking until OSD.
​​​​​​
Appreciate that.
Please don't think that I was doubting you word.
I was simply commenting on the slightly different report from flight global.

Typhoon has some incredibly large shoes to fill but whether it will be as busy in the years to come remains to be seen.

BVRAAM
1st Feb 2019, 21:42
Yep, I was talking to a GR4 pilot in December and he said January 31st was the last combat sortie...

Speculating here but I suspect additional Typhoons will be getting sent out to Cyprus so the tempo of operations isn't effected?

Jackonicko
2nd Feb 2019, 00:02
At one time that was being mooted, to allow the tempo to be maintained. My understanding is that this is no longer the case, and the very unconfirmed rumour is that Trump's announcement of the US withdrawal is being used to justify a reduction in the UK's sorties.

Easy Street
2nd Feb 2019, 06:02
the very unconfirmed rumour is that Trump's announcement of the US withdrawal is being used to justify a reduction in the UK's sorties.

Interesting framing. As the stated aim of the operation is the defeat of ISIS, isn’t it likely that the reduction of the ‘Caliphate’ to an area smaller than a fast jet’s turn radius has rather more to do with it? Until GR4’s last sortie, the UK’s contribution was essentially unchanged from the days when it stretched from Raqqa to Baghdad. There’s only so many jets you can safely fit into one tiny patch of sky.

This negative framing feeds the toxic ‘use it or lose it’ philosophy that prevails in Whitehall, as if it’s somehow wrong to take assets off operations. The impact of operations on force generation is too easily dismissed, as I suspect the F35 force will soon find out. And that’s before considering (other) cases where the national interest would be better served by not deploying at all. There’s little enough space for politicians to take sensible decisions as it is, and it’s constrained even further when journalists use judgemental angles such as ‘because Trump..’.

BVRAAM
2nd Feb 2019, 20:44
At one time that was being mooted, to allow the tempo to be maintained. My understanding is that this is no longer the case, and the very unconfirmed rumour is that Trump's announcement of the US withdrawal is being used to justify a reduction in the UK's sorties.

Do you work for CNN? MSNBC? ABC? Or some other news media network with an axe to grind against the President?

Just checking.....

"Because of Trump" is a lazy answer, especially when the UK Government have announced no such plans... neither have any such plans been leaked. It's not surprising why there's so much distrust in the mainstream media.

Jackonicko
4th Feb 2019, 14:42
I'm not endorsing that view, merely reporting it. I do not work for any of the listed media organisations, and I have no particular 'axe to grind' against the President, though it does sadden me that a great, liberal nation that I have admired my whole life should now find itself being led by such a deeply unimpressive and unlikeable buffoon.

The Daily Mail (a news source that I do not endorse nor necessarily believe) reported that the withdrawal of Tornado from Shader was down to Trump's decision

See: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6616989/Britain-pulls-half-RAF-warplanes-Iraq-Syria.html

That's plainly wrong - the withdrawal of Tornado and the Tornado OSD was set months, if not years ago.

It was subsequently reported that the decision not to 'beef up' the Typhoon det was down to the same thing.

I believe that not to be the case, though my understanding, after talking to senior officers at Marham on 10 January at the F-35 IOC declaration media bunfight, is that the Typhoon det will not be increased in size. This did not seem to be a big secret, nor was it viewed as being in any way contentious.

Indeed Easy Street's analysis seems to me to be on the button. The tempo of operations has reduced, as has the area held by Daesh, and it would not seem necessary for the RAF to maintain the tempo of operations that it has been sustaining.

wub
5th Feb 2019, 19:46
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-norfolk-47132164/raf-tornado-jets-make-final-return-to-raf-marham

Jackonicko
5th Feb 2019, 22:19
Have you been talking to DCOM OPS, Easy Street? Air Marshal Atha said much the same thing today!

Warmest congratulations to Chris S on receiving his 6,000 hours badge today.

6,000 hours. In the back of a Tornado.

BVRAAM
5th Feb 2019, 23:10
I'm not endorsing that view, merely reporting it. I do not work for any of the listed media organisations, and I have no particular 'axe to grind' against the President, though it does sadden me that a great, liberal nation that I have admired my whole life should now find itself being led by such a deeply unimpressive and unlikeable buffoon.

The Daily Mail (a news source that I do not endorse nor necessarily believe) reported that the withdrawal of Tornado from Shader was down to Trump's decision

See: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6616989/Britain-pulls-half-RAF-warplanes-Iraq-Syria.html

That's plainly wrong - the withdrawal of Tornado and the Tornado OSD was set months, if not years ago.

It was subsequently reported that the decision not to 'beef up' the Typhoon det was down to the same thing.

I believe that not to be the case, though my understanding, after talking to senior officers at Marham on 10 January at the F-35 IOC declaration media bunfight, is that the Typhoon det will not be increased in size. This did not seem to be a big secret, nor was it viewed as being in any way contentious.

Indeed Easy Street's analysis seems to me to be on the button. The tempo of operations has reduced, as has the area held by Daesh, and it would not seem necessary for the RAF to maintain the tempo of operations that it has been sustaining.


I think your axe to grind against the President is very clear. Claiming that you have no particular axe to grind against the President, but then following up with, "though it does sadden me that a great, liberal nation that I have admired my whole life should now find itself being led by such a deeply unimpressive and unlikeable buffoon" is contradictory to say the least!
To be perfectly clear, I don't have a problem with it, just be honest about it. President Trump is a very controversial and divisive character, and even as a person with conservative political views, I don't necessarily agree with everything he says and does... but I will neither hide approval or disapproval of some of his words and actions.

As for the Daily Mail, that website is a pioneer in what is known as "Fake News."

yellowtriumph
5th Feb 2019, 23:10
May I ask what usually happens to planes when they get retired now that, I presume, none are needed for operational spares etc? Are any other nations still using them? Can they be sold on? Genuine question from a civvy.

BVRAAM
5th Feb 2019, 23:12
May I ask what usually happens to planes when they get retired now that, I presume, none are needed for operational spares etc? Are any other nations still using them? Can they be sold on? Genuine question from a civvy.

The remaining in-service Tornado GR4's will be Reduced to Produce upon retirement at RAF Marham, meaning the airframes will be dismantled and any viable/working/relatively low hours parts will be stripped, refurbished and used on existing Tornado fleets in Saudi Arabia, Germany or Italy. Anything else will be scrapped. A few airframes are likely to be preserved as Gate Guardians at various RAF stations or displayed in museums, but not many.
Obviously anything that relates solely to the GR4 and is restricted/classified will be appropriately disposed of in the UK. I suspect most of the power plants will be refurbished and sent overseas to sustain other Tornado fleets.

ORAC
6th Feb 2019, 06:17
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/final-flight-home-for-crews-on-the-retiring-tornados-jf222x70q

Final flight home for crews on the retiring Tornados


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1124/image_1fd0ed86128f8659cbfeed0ce1f5710e33862833.jpeg

The last of the RAF’s Tornado warplanes arrived home from overseas operations yesterday, amid growing concern about the gap that will be left when they retire next month........

Friends and family greeted the squadron members who flew the final three Tornado jets back from RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus to RAF Marham in Norfolk. Wing Commander James Heeps was given a box of Cadbury’s Heroes by his son George, three. Air chiefs presented Flight Lieutenant Chris Stradling, a navigator, with a badge to mark his 6,000th Tornado flying hour — an RAF record. The crew will retrain for other aircraft.....

It conducted its last strike as part of Operation Shader, the UK’s contribution to the global fight against Isis, attacking terrorist enclaves near Abu Kamal in eastern Syria on January 26.......

OldnDaft
6th Feb 2019, 06:44
Warmest congratulations to Chris S on receiving his 6,000 hours badge today.

6,000 hours. In the back of a Tornado.
Really nice guy, remember him well from 17(F) at Bruggen.

Jackonicko
6th Feb 2019, 06:44
I think your axe to grind against the President is very clear. Claiming that you have no particular axe to grind against the President, but then following up with, "though it does sadden me that a great, liberal nation that I have admired my whole life should now find itself being led by such a deeply unimpressive and unlikeable buffoon" is contradictory to say the least!
To be perfectly clear, I don't have a problem with it, just be honest about it. President Trump is a very controversial and divisive character, and even as a person with conservative political views, I don't necessarily agree with everything he says and does... but I will neither hide approval or disapproval of some of his words and actions.

As for the Daily Mail, that website is a pioneer in what is known as "Fake News."

I agree about the Daily Mail - it's a dreadful rag. As I said before, I merely reported what it reported, and expressed my belief that they 'got it wrong.'

I don't believe that the tangoed oaf's decision to withdraw US forces had anything to do with the British decision to withdraw Tornado, nor the decision not to boost or reinforce the number of Typhoons on Shader - but both of those claims have been made, and I passed them on, with a suitable caveat.

I don't have an axe to grind with your current president. I don't like him, I don't respect him, and I don't rate him, but I don't have any axe to grind. I watch with a mixture of horror and amusement as he demonstrates his unfitness to lead, and watch, 'popcorn in hand', waiting to see whether he escapes being impeached.

On this, as so often, Trump is an irrelevance.

Treble one
6th Feb 2019, 07:02
The remaining in-service Tornado GR4's will be Reduced to Produce upon retirement at RAF Marham, meaning the airframes will be dismantled and any viable/working/relatively low hours parts will be stripped, refurbished and used on existing Tornado fleets in Saudi Arabia, Germany or Italy. Anything else will be scrapped. A few airframes are likely to be preserved as Gate Guardians at various RAF stations or displayed in museums, but not many.
Obviously anything that relates solely to the GR4 and is restricted/classified will be appropriately disposed of in the UK. I suspect most of the power plants will be refurbished and sent overseas to sustain other Tornado fleets.

One GR4 has already made its way to Hangar 4 at IWM Duxford, complementing their GR1 already resident in Airspace. They both have some nice associated kit with them including TIALD (From GW1 with resident 'Fat Slags' Artwork), JP233, AIM-9 and Brimstone as well as ECM/Chaff/Flare pods.

yellowtriumph
6th Feb 2019, 08:03
Thanks for the answers re post active service life.

57mm
6th Feb 2019, 09:25
6000 hours on a fighter bomber type might not just be an RAF record. IIRC, Wayne Yarolan scored 5000 on the F4, but have not heard of any more than that.

Chris Kebab
6th Feb 2019, 11:16
...inclined to agree; not come across or heard of anyone notching up that many hours in a single FJ type (I know a couple who hit 5k) - although standby for some hairy old Hawk QFI to emerge!

ORAC
6th Feb 2019, 12:13
.............


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1029x686/image_15dfdc1b87217bb402414c34637aa59be83b7d5b.jpeg

Cows getting bigger
6th Feb 2019, 12:27
I spent many an hour scanning the North German Plain for 4-ships of Fins barreling through a few feet above us. A couple of years later, I was sitting around the sandpit whilst some very brave people were committing JP233 runs.

Hats-off to all Tornado Muds. Fine crews operating a great aircraft that served us well.

NutLoose
6th Feb 2019, 12:44
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/raf-marham-enthusiasts-day.691133/

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/camo-tornado-at-marham-enthusiasts-day.691606/

TEEEJ
6th Feb 2019, 14:08
May I ask what usually happens to planes when they get retired now that, I presume, none are needed for operational spares etc? Are any other nations still using them? Can they be sold on? Genuine question from a civvy.

Tornado GR.4 ZG752 will go to RAF Honington, to be displayed as a gate guard, Britain at War magazine can reveal.

Speaking at a media event at RAF Marham today, the RAF also announced its intention to preserve up to 12 GR.4s from the current fleet.

https://britainatwar.keypublishing.com/2019/01/25/tornado-farewell-gr-4-gate-guard-for-honington/

Jackonicko
6th Feb 2019, 14:11
.............


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1029x686/image_15dfdc1b87217bb402414c34637aa59be83b7d5b.jpeg




Jacko got confused......

Jackonicko
6th Feb 2019, 14:25
The crews for the last mission:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1307/83eag_712_9691827dfe827764e9632c83474edb20bf608338.jpg
"The aircrew on the LHS does not wish to be named", Wing Commander James Heeps, OC IX Squadron, Wing Commander Matt Bressani, OC 31 Squadron and Sqn Ldr James Boning (Bonning?).

TEEEJ
6th Feb 2019, 15:52
UCA5kX_Evo8

BVRAAM
6th Feb 2019, 19:05
I agree about the Daily Mail - it's a dreadful rag. As I said before, I merely reported what it reported, and expressed my belief that they 'got it wrong.'

I don't believe that the tangoed oaf's decision to withdraw US forces had anything to do with the British decision to withdraw Tornado, nor the decision not to boost or reinforce the number of Typhoons on Shader - but both of those claims have been made, and I passed them on, with a suitable caveat.

I don't have an axe to grind with your current president. I don't like him, I don't respect him, and I don't rate him, but I don't have any axe to grind. I watch with a mixture of horror and amusement as he demonstrates his unfitness to lead, and watch, 'popcorn in hand', waiting to see whether he escapes being impeached.

On this, as so often, Trump is an irrelevance.
My last point, as I'd hate to detract the attention away from the fine men and women of the Tornado GR Force, past and present: He isn't my President - I fly the Union Flag. :)

frodo_monkey
6th Feb 2019, 19:15
It’s spelt Boning.

i won’t name the chap on the left but can confirm he’s a top bloke!

ORAC
6th Feb 2019, 19:24
So why do the navs wear jock straps but the pilots don’t?

Lima Juliet
6th Feb 2019, 21:18
So why do the navs wear jock straps but the pilots don’t?

Look a little closer and you will see 3 sets of your so-called ‘jock straps’. My understanding is that the kit in the combat survival life jacket is quite heavy and the straps stop it whacking you in the face on ejection?

Easy Street
6th Feb 2019, 21:41
I think the straps are a feature of the latest mark of life preserver. The updated jacket was introduced to hold the head higher out of the water to reduce the likelihood of drowning if unconscious, and the straps must be to stop the jacket riding up (or the body dropping down, whichever way you want to look at it). I heard that the larger size of the stole gave some aircrew difficulties with head movement so they were allowed to stay with the previous mark of jacket. If you notice, OC IX Sqn doesn't have the straps and his stole cover is of different material. As so often, fix one problem, introduce another...

Tankertrashnav
6th Feb 2019, 23:41
Speaking at a media event at RAF Marham today, the RAF also announced its intention to preserve up to 12 GR.4s from the current fleet.

A little earlier I was checking up some facts on the Lightning (not the new one) and was surprised to learn that there are over 60 Lightnings surviving in various states of preservation, predominantly in the UK, but also in various other countries, including Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the USA.

NutLoose
8th Feb 2019, 18:49
Frightening in USA nearly flight ready.

Just This Once...
8th Feb 2019, 19:28
i won’t name the chap on the left but can confirm he’s a top bloke!

Neither will I but I do wonder if he has a picture in the attic as he looked like that over 20 years ago!

drustsonoferp
9th Feb 2019, 18:05
I think the straps are a feature of the latest mark of life preserver. The updated jacket was introduced to hold the head higher out of the water to reduce the likelihood of drowning if unconscious, and the straps must be to stop the jacket riding up (or the body dropping down, whichever way you want to look at it). I heard that the larger size of the stole gave some aircrew difficulties with head movement so they were allowed to stay with the previous mark of jacket. If you notice, OC IX Sqn doesn't have the straps and his stole cover is of different material. As so often, fix one problem, introduce another...
Correct: the new(ish) Mk43 life preserver was made to meet more exacting floatation standards than the old marks. The crotch strap was introduced as meeting the freeboard requirement with immersion representative of parachute landing in water proved challenging: if the jacket rides up a small amount when total buoyancy never places your mouth a great distance above the water, then that small amount of ride up becomes significant.

Jackonicko
9th Feb 2019, 19:18
Neither will I but I do wonder if he has a picture in the attic as he looked like that over 20 years ago!

He certainly seems to be very highly regarded.

wub
11th Feb 2019, 15:05
A GR4 did an approach and overshoot at Edinburgh Airport this morning.

wub
11th Feb 2019, 17:13
Routes for the final flypasts have been published on the RAF Marham Twitter page

insty66
11th Feb 2019, 17:19
Routes have been announced

HERE

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/849x1200/image_d5cead29a882a4c8615026a8fbcb929f3a5b18f1.png

Green Flash
11th Feb 2019, 17:22
Thanks Wub/insty, think I'll pop over to Tain and hope for an FRA over the bridge from behind the Struie Hill :) Mind you, If they've got anything left for the Mauser's then there's always the strafe targets!

weemonkey
11th Feb 2019, 18:00
:( Nothing on the west coast not even Abbotsinch

just another jocky
11th Feb 2019, 18:03
Cottesmore? It's an Army base now.

What about all the ex-GR mates working down the road at Wittering?

Thrust Augmentation
11th Feb 2019, 18:51
LFA14-T have been listening to these things thundering around day & night for more than 3 decades now (not complaining!), so it would have been nice... Guess from the bases & probable routing that we won't be seeing any in the Great Glen?

Easy Street
11th Feb 2019, 19:43
Cottesmore? It's an Army base now.

What about all the ex-GR mates working down the road at Wittering?

Looking at the lists I reckon they have gone for sites with a past Tornado connection and joined those dots with overflights of non-Tornado but well-populated sites like Benson, Waddington and Shawbury. Doesn't seem like they're going out of their way for such 'extras' but that's understandable IMHO.

Anyway, any ex-GR mates as close to hand as Wittering will surely be saying farewell at one of the thrashes at Marham!

claron
12th Feb 2019, 11:26
A low pass over Southend Airport this morning 11.30.

To see one for the last time in the air made this old Tonka fixer very happy, and brought back a lot of good memories

Thanks.

Martin the Martian
12th Feb 2019, 12:28
Nothing west of Bristol, I see, unless you're in Wales.

By the way, is the name Tonka in currency in the RAF, or is it another enthusiast-led idea?

BEagle
12th Feb 2019, 12:31
'Tonka' is a groundcrew term. Much as 'Timmy' was for the TriStar....

Buster15
12th Feb 2019, 13:45
A low pass over Southend Airport this morning 11.30.

To see one for the last time in the air made this old Tonka fixer very happy, and brought back a lot of good memories

Thanks.

I can well imagine ex Tonka fixer.
You and your colleagues can feel extremely proud of the work you have done to maintain serviceability of this fantastic aircraft.
I have a number of friends who worked long and hard on her.
It was as one always used to remind me 'an amazing piece of kit'.

just another jocky
12th Feb 2019, 18:02
Looking at the lists I reckon they have gone for sites with a past Tornado connection and joined those dots with overflights of non-Tornado but well-populated sites like Benson, Waddington and Shawbury. Doesn't seem like they're going out of their way for such 'extras' but that's understandable IMHO.

Anyway, any ex-GR mates as close to hand as Wittering will surely be saying farewell at one of the thrashes at Marham!

Indeed, but shouldn't be too difficult to move the IP-Tgt run round to overfly Wittering too.

The students & cadets would love it too.

ShotOne
17th Feb 2019, 14:03
Any news on timings for next weeks flypasts?

Rhino power
17th Feb 2019, 14:43
Any news on timings for next weeks flypasts?
Times are being released tomorrow (Monday).

-RP

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY
17th Feb 2019, 17:33
A couple of times have been leaked.
Tuesday: Cosford 13:29 and Valley 13:50.

Wednesday: Duxford 13:16

I am guessing at a 300kt transit (or there abouts) so Leeming / Linton area around 14:30 on Tuesday. Work out the rest yourselves as a rough guide. ;-)

weemonkey
17th Feb 2019, 22:14
I suppose we should be glad that at least the old warhorse gets to do a couple of round robins, so to say, but talk about going out with a squeak rather than a bang...

BVRAAM
18th Feb 2019, 04:37
I suppose we should be glad that at least the old warhorse gets to do a couple of round robins, so to say, but talk about going out with a squeak rather than a bang...

She went out with many bangs last month on Op SHADER. They are the best bangs.

weemonkey
18th Feb 2019, 08:51
She went out with many bangs last month on Op SHADER. They are the best bangs.


Careful your lords and masters might not like that....

"MPs said what was needed to deal with the proliferation of disinformation online ".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47255380

Buster15
18th Feb 2019, 10:05
She went out with many bangs last month on Op SHADER. They are the best bangs.

Certainly did. Up there fighting till the end.
It is a funny thing but just thinking of Tornado somehow made me feel safe.

It has been a truly outstanding aircraft and has given us all something to be proud of.

Herod
18th Feb 2019, 10:24
She certainly corrected first impressions. Originally Multi Role Combat Aircraft. Those of us of a certain age will remember, when the next delay was announced. "MRCA: Must Refurbish Canberras Again"

To Cosford tomorrow, to salute one of the best for a long time.

Tankertrashnav
18th Feb 2019, 10:32
Nothing west of Bristol, I see, unless you're in Wales.

I'm afraid the South West is a forgotten area nowadays as far as the RAF is concerned. Would have been nice to see an overflight at Culdrose to show the navy what a real aircraft looks like, but I suppose the logistics of visiting an outlier like that just wouldn't have worked. Shame.

middlesbrough
18th Feb 2019, 11:31
I'm afraid the South West is a forgotten area nowadays as far as the RAF is concerned. Would have been nice to see an overflight at Culdrose to show the navy what a real aircraft looks like, but I suppose the logistics of visiting an outlier like that just wouldn't have worked. Shame.
Quite a few navigators I helped train at Finningley went on to the Tornado GR4 via Chivenor.
The RAF are still quite popular in Devon and Cornwall, particularly when the Red Arrows visit in the summer.

Vendee
18th Feb 2019, 12:21
Timings for Tuesday and Wednesday flypasts are now on Marham's twitter page

https://twitter.com/RAFMarhamMedia/status/1097482019926355968
https://twitter.com/RAFMarhamMedia/status/1097481320857567233
https://twitter.com/RAFMarhamMedia/status/1097481321922916353

TEEEJ
18th Feb 2019, 12:37
Also on RAF Marham Facebook

Subject to weather and aircraft serviceability here are the Tornado GR FINale flypast timings.

Tuesday 19th February

1315 – 1330 Kendrew Barracks (RAF Cottesmore) – National Memorial Arboretum – DECA Stafford – RAF Cosford
1330 – 1345 RAF Shawbury – DECA Sealand
1345 – 1400 RAF Valley
1415 – 1430 BAES Warton – BAES Samlesbury
1430 – 1445 RAF Spadeadam
1445 – 1500 RAF Leeming – RAF Topcliffe – RAF Linton-On-Ouse
1500 – 1515 RAF Waddington – RAF College Cranwell – Royal Air Force Coningsby
1515 – 1535 RAF Donna Nook – RAF Holbeach – RAF Wyton

Wednesday 20th February

1300 – 1315 Royal Air Force Honington
1315 – 1330 Imperial War Museum Duxford – Former RAE Bedford – Cranfield Airfield – Royal Air Force Halton – RAF High Wycombe
1330 – 1345 RAF Benson – HQ Land Forces, Andover, MOD Boscombe Down
1400 – 1415 RAF Pembrey – MOD St Athan – Cardiff Airport
1415 – 1430 Rolls Royce Filton – MOD Abbey Wood – MOD Shrivenham – RAF Brize Norton

Thursday 21st February

1115 – 1130 Leuchars Station
1130 – 1145 RAF Tain
1145 – 1200 RAF Lossiemouth

https://www.facebook.com/RoyalAirForceMarham/posts/2058616544258662

snapper1
18th Feb 2019, 13:09
From Tuesday's NOTAMS

FORMATION TRANSIT BY FAST JET MILITARY AIRCRAFT ROUTING : 523849N 0003304E ( MARHAM AERODROME ) 1300 524033N 0003410E ( VICINITY OF NARBOROUGH ) 1305 523815N 0000539W ( VICINITY OF THORNEY ) 1311 524844N 0003320W ( VICINITY OF MORTON ) 1313 524358N 0003911W ( COTTESMORE ) 1315 524107N 0004430W ( VICINITY OF OAKHAM ) 1316 523347N 0005709W ( SHANGTON ) 1318 523106N 0011243W ( BROUGHTON ASTLEY ) 1320 523652N 0013020W ( SHEEPY MAGNA ) 1322 524343N 0014337W ( ALREWASMEMORIAL ARBORETUM ) 1324 524945N 0020600W ( STAFFORD ) 1326 523824N 0021920W ( COSFORD AERODROME ) 1329 523441N 0023247W ( VICINITY OFMUCH WENLOCK ) 1330 524737N 0024005W ( SHAWBURY AERODROME ) 1333 531335N 0025933W ( SEALAND ) 1338 530329N 0042632W ( CAERNARFON BAY ) 1348 531453N 0043207W ( VALLEY AERODROME ) 1350 534442N 0025301W ( WARTON AERODROME ) 1426 534833N 0024802W ( VICINITY OF CATFORTH ) 1427 534627N 0023401W ( SAMLESBURY ) 1429 545436N 0024439W ( HAYTON ) 1442 550133N 0023607W ( SPADEADAM ) 1443 550301N 0023313W ( BERRY HILL ) 1444 544300N 0020153W ( BOLLIHOPE COMMON ) 1449 541732N 0013206W ( LEEMING AERODROME ) 1455 541219N 0012253W ( TOPCLIFFE AERODROME ) 1456 540256N 0011514W ( LINTON ON OUSE AERODROME ) 1457 533820N 0003647W ( WINTERTON ) 1503 532213N 0002532W ( NEWTON BT TOFT ) 1506 531000N 0003125W ( WADDINGTON AERODROME ) 1509 530626N 0004132W ( STAPLEFORD ) 1510 530134N 0003923W ( BRANDON ) 1511 530149N 0002906W ( CRANWELL AERODROME ) 1512 530536N 0001004W ( CONINGSBY AERODROME ) 1514 532330N 0000445W ( NORTH ELKINGTON ) 1517 532859N 0001338E ( VICINITY OF DONNA NOOK ) 1519 530531N 0002633E ( OFFSHORE SKEGNESS ) 1524 525152N 0001532E ( VICINITY OF HOLBEACH ) 1527 523150N 0002349E ( SOUTHERY ) 1531 523849N 0003304E ( MARHAM AERODROME ) 1545 BTN VALLEY AND WARTON FORMATION WILL CLIMB TO CONDUCT AAR IN AREA 13 ( VICINITY OF MORECAMBE BAY ) UNDER A RADAR SERVICE WITH SWANWICK MILITARY.

BVRAAM
18th Feb 2019, 16:05
Careful your lords and masters might not like that....

"MPs said what was needed to deal with the proliferation of disinformation online ".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47255380

**** 'em....

TEEEJ
18th Feb 2019, 17:53
Tornado Farewell Tour Routes at following link.

Tornado Farewell Tour Routes (http://www.egxwinfogroup.co.uk/?p=2703)

NOTAMs H0516/19 and H0513/19

https://notaminfo.com/node/5

BEagle
19th Feb 2019, 07:49
I'm afraid the South West is a forgotten area nowadays as far as the RAF is concerned.

Sadly true with the squaddification of Chiv. I recall waiting at the holding point in a brand new Hawk in early 1991 as a Tornado came in for a practice diversion - 2 new types, Chiv's new Officers' Mess being built - things looked quite rosy...

...until yet more cuts.

Herod
19th Feb 2019, 12:42
Three minutes early at Cosford museum. Lots of unhappy spotters

weemonkey
19th Feb 2019, 13:01
**** 'em....


...:ok:....

melmothtw
19th Feb 2019, 13:09
Nothing west of Bristol, I see, unless you're in Wales.

Nothing east of DECA Sealand I see, unless you're in England.

The B Word
19th Feb 2019, 14:26
Slow speed at flight-level nose bleed - sorry but very unimpressive in my humble opinion...

Onceapilot
19th Feb 2019, 14:26
Stunning close Vic North-South over Leeming. I estimate 250' 360kts.
A great job done today, and every day.

OAP

TEEEJ
19th Feb 2019, 14:38
I agree, OAP. Superb close formation coming off Cranwell heading for Coningsby. Lovely sight and sound! :ok:

dctyke
19th Feb 2019, 15:41
Nice to see the three ship at Linton on Ouse. Massive amount of folks there and road completely log jammed. Funny to see RAF Police turn up, see the road blocked with driverless cars, turn around and go back on base. Strange never to see the tornado in a sky ever again.

Herod
19th Feb 2019, 16:00
I'm glad some places got a proper display. There may have been good reasons, but I'm afraid as far as Cosford was concerned it wasn't impressive at all. It's a shame; there were thousands of people, and apparently the tail-back of traffic reached the M54.

just another jocky
19th Feb 2019, 16:26
Slow speed at flight-level nose bleed - sorry but very unimpressive in my humble opinion...

Sadly these days there are usually far more stringent limits to fly to than we had back in the day.

57mm
19th Feb 2019, 17:09
Understand the last fly past mission is on Thu 21; any idea on launch / recovery times at MR? Would love to say farewell to the old girl....

mopardave
19th Feb 2019, 18:45
Stunning close Vic North-South over Leeming. I estimate 250' 360kts.
A great job done today, and every day.

OAP

I too was at Leeming today! What a shame its all over.....good bye cold war warrior and thanks for the memories.....and thanks to the crews too! It must be particularly poignant for the Nav's/WSO's.

tremblerman
19th Feb 2019, 18:54
For those of us ancients who can recall, was not the expression "must refurbish Canberra again" attributed to Uncle Roger writing his Straight and Level column in Flight International?

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY
19th Feb 2019, 19:07
Understand the last fly past mission is on Thu 21; any idea on launch / recovery times at MR? Would love to say farewell to the old girl....
I can't help with times for 21st but that is not the last "event".

28th Feb there is a planned 9-ship flight out of Marham and up to Cranwell.

bobward
19th Feb 2019, 19:35
Thanks to the crews of the two jets that did a low go-around at Norwich this afternoon.
It was great to see you!

Easy Street
19th Feb 2019, 21:13
The Defence-wide formation flypast limits are available for all to read in their miserableness: 500ft minimum height and 20 degrees angle of bank. Google RA2335. Any lower or steeper (or indeed a second pass according to some lower-level orders) and it becomes a role demonstration, which for performance in public needs PDA just like a display! It seems that straightforward kinds of activity that any military aircrew could deliver safely and professionally with barely a scrap of paperwork have been caught up in the post-Shoreham clampdown. A sad legacy indeed.

wub
19th Feb 2019, 21:26
She certainly corrected first impressions. Originally Multi Role Combat Aircraft. Those of us of a certain age will remember, when the next delay was announced. "MRCA: Must Refurbish Canberras Again"

Another interpretation was “Mother Riley’s Cardboard Aeroplane”

N707ZS
19th Feb 2019, 21:30
Once the operational flying's over might HMG give the airframes out to museums as they did with Nimrods!

Herod
19th Feb 2019, 22:04
Easy Street: I wasn't aware of that. Quite depressing, and must be a morale-breaker. What about an approach, with a low go-around? No more victory-rolls over the crowd I guess!!

BVRAAM
20th Feb 2019, 03:17
I can't help with times for 21st but that is not the last "event".

28th Feb there is a planned 9-ship flight out of Marham and up to Cranwell.

That is only a practice.

The same sortie will be flown as a formal flypast over the disbandment parade on March 14th.

BEagle
20th Feb 2019, 07:03
MRCA = Must Reopen Chivenor Again!

Onceapilot
20th Feb 2019, 08:27
The Defence-wide formation flypast limits are available for all to read in their miserableness: 500ft minimum height and 20 degrees angle of bank. Google RA2335. Any lower or steeper (or indeed a second pass according to some lower-level orders) and it becomes a role demonstration, which for performance in public needs PDA just like a display! It seems that straightforward kinds of activity that any military aircrew could deliver safely and professionally with barely a scrap of paperwork have been caught up in the post-Shoreham clampdown. A sad legacy indeed.

I think this is the way it has been for quite a while. I held DA's for what I would consider straight-forward flying over a decade ago. Mind you, there was no DA for the RAF 90 Flypast, and that was a close formation 30sec stream briefed as IMC compliant with a +/- 10 sec tolerance in formation position/time, with half of the aircraft types having no nav kit able to achieve that IMC. Thank God it was VMC for the run-in and flypast. :)
Apart from the difficulties with multiple "Displays" and DA's that the Tornado FINale might entail, there is probably a complication for the individual venues, where the performance of a "Display" requires a major investment in planning and, the acceptance of liability. :oh: So, in the light of these issues, and after reviewing video of nearly all the flypasts yesterday, I think the Tornado flypasts were extremely well thought-out and performed. The Vic was impressive, the weather was mixed and moody, the flying would have been demanding and they achieved the plan, as far as I know! Many thousands turned out to watch, and I hope that most people could enjoy the occasion. I wish the best of luck for all the remaining Tornado retirement activities and, Yes guys, some of us did notice how much was done in 67 wing! :D

OAP

EAP86
20th Feb 2019, 08:38
I see RA2335 dates from Nov 2014 so probably not a Shoreham response. Could it be a knee-jerk response to an impromptu Typhoon 'display' over RR Filton which was readily visible from Abbey Wood?

EAP

unmanned_droid
20th Feb 2019, 13:30
Looked awesome over Filton, although kinda took me by surprise coming down the A38!

bridgets boy
20th Feb 2019, 13:56
Looked pro as ever at their turning point prior to MOD Andover. Goldstar jet in the lead stood out nicely

bvcu
20th Feb 2019, 15:03
Great to see at Pembrey !

dead_pan
20th Feb 2019, 15:39
Odd track over Brize which caught quite a few people out. Still impressive though

Lyneham Lad
20th Feb 2019, 15:59
Was driving over the Marlborough Downs this afternoon, heading east to Marlborough when the three-ship whizzed from right to left in front of me - quite low level too. Hadn't expected to see them in the area, so a pleasant surprise.

JAVELINBOY
20th Feb 2019, 16:10
Made the effort to watch the three ship transit up the Severn Estuary this afternoon and turn in at Goldcliffe near Newport managed to film them on the phone,
Thanks chaps it was worth standing on the windy coastal path, you were on time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVWPxV68XWE&feature=youtu.be

dctyke
20th Feb 2019, 16:13
Are we likely to see a detailed route and timings up to Scotland tomorrow?

wub
20th Feb 2019, 17:27
Just been a piece on BBC News at 6 with their defence correspondent on board one of the trio.

fantom
20th Feb 2019, 18:52
Ah... Goldstar.

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/minlgw/2_zpsnmwpvu4v.jpg (https://s20.photobucket.com/user/minlgw/media/2_zpsnmwpvu4v.jpg.html)

weemonkey
20th Feb 2019, 19:50
Ah... Goldstar.

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/minlgw/2_zpsnmwpvu4v.jpg (https://s20.photobucket.com/user/minlgw/media/2_zpsnmwpvu4v.jpg.html)

Wot! no SEAM or anyfink. About much use as an iron bomber. Oh hang on...

..nice strike camera hanging there in the breeze just don't go too ffaassttt...

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/855x558/017_tornado_laydown_72dfa2337a1a66ff46e63caf046f49bafe1dfa14 .png

Homelover
20th Feb 2019, 20:08
I see RA2335 dates from Nov 2014 so probably not a Shoreham response. Could it be a knee-jerk response to an impromptu Typhoon 'display' over RR Filton which was readily visible from Abbey Wood?

EAP
Actually, issue 8 of RA2335 was released in Feb 2018 and contained revised limits for Display Flying and Flypasts. These revisions were directly attributable to the fallout from Shoreham.

weemonkey
20th Feb 2019, 20:29
Actually, issue 8 of RA2335 was released in Feb 2018 and contained revised limits for Display Flying and Flypasts. These revisions were directly attributable to the fallout from Shoreham.



Right.
That is unfortunate, but explains some of the waffle on other areas of the internet expecting a compass attack [or similar] and getting a sedate "fly bye" :rolleyes:

Put the old girl to rest gracefully with style and come home to roost safely.

Remembering Glen Kinglass [RIP]

Herod
20th Feb 2019, 21:06
Reading between the lines regarding the lower/faster flypasts at other places, perhaps we here at Cosford suffered because of the museum. It was totally packed yesterday, with cars tailed-back as far as the motorway. Maybe because of that, it was considered more of a "public display" than at some of the other bases. Either way, it was good to see them.

Tankertrashnav
20th Feb 2019, 22:42
Just been a piece on BBC News at 6 with their defence correspondent on board one of the trio.

The flight may have been a bit too sedate for some of our members, but not so for the man from the Beeb who could be seen chucking up into his sick bag at one point.

chopper2004
21st Feb 2019, 01:16
I popped into Duxford at lunchtime so here are my photos of the trio passing through en route from Honington To Thurkeigh (Bedford).

cheers


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/506ee59b_7395_4172_bb5a_cfff8a2d8e11_d0e3354fa72b87b95b2df94 db419f976a3697048.jpeg


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/1a9d8fe0_8ead_48b4_97ef_472606fe1f6b_17e809b6008363e82c5182e e9727402f3019aa29.jpeg


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1836x1224/dc63166e_de99_4cc1_84f7_8d4dbc53d79d_cb7b408ea5685e9f665750d 89b1ae5b37628a878.jpeg


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1847x1230/fabc9412_90aa_4c3c_aa89_c1dc821bacce_f52ae47031fb77123122ee6 536e74256fbf5156f.jpeg

campbeex
21st Feb 2019, 06:34
Is there anywhere online that gives details of today's route? I've seen the locations where they're doing flypasts, just wondering about the routes in between. Thanks in advance.

ivor toolbox
21st Feb 2019, 07:40
Proper bomber. Under the Weather-Under the Radar...none of this poncing about at mid, :E get down until you see the fear in their eyes as the swept wing nemis outruns it's own sound...

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/855x558/017_tornado_laydown_e14b13b66044deaa5a982912f6dec22842fddac2 .png
nah, that would be the Buccaneer
Ttfn

wub
21st Feb 2019, 07:54
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-47310485/raf-tornado-retirement-journalist-gets-queasy-on-goodbye-flight

NorthernSID
21st Feb 2019, 09:17
nah, that would be the Buccaneer
Ttfn
Was the Buccaneer actuall cleared to drop the weapon in the photo?

Timelord
21st Feb 2019, 09:34
Was the Buccaneer actuall cleared to drop the weapon in the photo?

Oh yes! Both overland and sea roles.

t7a
21st Feb 2019, 11:20
Hope it was cleared - in light of all the time I spent on QRA!!

Bravo Alpha One
21st Feb 2019, 12:22
I really do wish people would stop talking about "fighter jet" (whatever that is!) probably some journo struggling to cope with FJ.
The GR4 is a BOMBER, not a fighter.
We don't have any fighters any more; Typhoon is "swing role" - is it really that difficult?

sandozer
21st Feb 2019, 13:33
Great to see even with the low cloud, big turnout on the "hill" !
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/fc_8689s_f89e83c9d30da3217b6e743374f9d6b46407df1b.jpg
4 came over...just one of trio.

melmothtw
21st Feb 2019, 13:49
I really do wish people would stop talking about "fighter jet" (whatever that is!) probably some journo struggling to cope with FJ.
The GR4 is a BOMBER, not a fighter.
We don't have any fighters any more; Typhoon is "swing role" - is it really that difficult?

The equivalent of moaning about an armoured infantry fighting vehicle being called a tank, or an offshore patrol vessel being called a boat, or a remotely piloted air system being called a drone.

To the public, it's a fighter jet. Let it go...

EAP86
21st Feb 2019, 14:58
Actually, issue 8 of RA2335 was released in Feb 2018 and contained revised limits for Display Flying and Flypasts. These revisions were directly attributable to the fallout from Shoreham.

Apologies if I have misled. I just looked up the RA on the MAA website and read "Published 14 November 2014"; I missed the "Last updated 31 January 2018" which follows. :O

EAP

Buster15
21st Feb 2019, 15:09
nah, that would be the Buccaneer
Ttfn

Since when did the Buccaneer have wing sweep.

langleybaston
21st Feb 2019, 15:13
Saw them near M Keynes yesterday, and my daughter's telephoto did the trick.

Please are there details of Cranwell rehearsal 28th Feb .... if it is PM I could manage it.
Morning would be a b*gger.

just another jocky
21st Feb 2019, 16:02
The GR4 is a BOMBER....


The GR4 is so much more than just that!

AnglianAV8R
21st Feb 2019, 18:08
The GR4 is so much more than just that!

Was :\

Buster15
21st Feb 2019, 18:53
Was :\

The RAF Tornado GR4 can be called was and that is only because of the two fast jet policy. Moreover the RSAF Tornado are very similar to GR4 standard and don't forget the GAF and IF Tornado are still operating and will do for some years to come.

BVRAAM
21st Feb 2019, 18:55
The saddest thing for me is that the Tornado is no longer available as a flyable option.

Typhoons and F-35's are cool, but they ain't Tornados!!!

jindabyne
21st Feb 2019, 19:01
Sad, and boring (yes , moi aussi) to read so much drivel on here. Throw away your keyboards, come to my pub, and I'll put you right. And yes, I did fly both, and desked them at Gp and MoD.

Waiting to be put in my box :ok:

Farewell RAF Tornado - another aviation Icon.

just another jocky
21st Feb 2019, 19:20
Sad, and boring (yes , moi aussi) to read so much drivel on here. Throw away your keyboards, come to my pub, and I'll put you right. And yes, I did fly both, and desked them at Gp and MoD.

Waiting to be put in my box :ok:

Did I hear someone say "free beers"? :ok:

Timelord
21st Feb 2019, 19:37
Big crowd around Lossiemouth today, not helped by one of the main car parks by the beach being flooded! I’ve heard a lot of “ we went faster / lower / better in our day” but, given the restrictions that seem to be designed to stop current aircrew doing ANYTHING these days, I thought it was a pretty good show. I look forward to seeing the photos from the Hawk.

Well done boys and girls and good luck for the future.

jindabyne
21st Feb 2019, 20:01
Jock

First round yes!! Have you far to travel?

BVRAAM
21st Feb 2019, 20:03
Big crowd around Lossiemouth today, not helped by one of the main car parks by the beach being flooded! I’ve heard a lot of “ we went faster / lower / better in our day” but, given the restrictions that seem to be designed to stop current aircrew doing ANYTHING these days, I thought it was a pretty good show. I look forward to seeing the photos from the Hawk.

Well done boys and girls and good luck for the future.

There you go. ACM Sir Stephen Hillier was the flight lead and Gp Capt "Cab" Townsend was his #2!

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1361/52608968_1386304291512649_5655959620837965824_o_16f7fd293d54 386756845c61e500fce6381e276a.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1418/52599190_1386304251512653_8810690108513583104_o_0edf852b5eb1 ec7895cd4783c522f1a19150875d.jpg

Timelord
21st Feb 2019, 20:14
Thanks, nice pictures.

Great, a not very current CAS and a Harrier mate, what could possibly have gone wrong? Respect to whoever was in their back seats!

orca
21st Feb 2019, 20:20
I assume the Harrier driver was the one actually in formation?

Timelord
21st Feb 2019, 20:41
And the debrief will conclude that whatever went wrong was the fault of number 3

NutLoose
21st Feb 2019, 20:51
What now for them, are the survivors allotted to Cosford as trainers or similar? Or are they being dispersed to some museums? One just hopes they do not end up as coke cans and frying pans.