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extricate
28th Dec 2018, 07:10
Hi there,

Wellington airport is unique in the sense they have the TDZ limit markings whereby if touchdown is not assured within the TDZ markings, captain has to elect to go around. Anyone knows what is the TDZ markings predicated on? Can't seem to find any materials regarding this

Thanks much

KRviator
28th Dec 2018, 08:36
A Qantas thing apparently? Carried-over from the days when the 747 went in there...I couldn't find anything in their AIP about the markings, though they clearly show up on the satellite photos. Makes me wonder why they're still there, given the length of time since a 747 went there?

Boeing 747SP era

Because of the runway limitations, Qantas purchased two short-bodied "Special Performance" 747's for flights between Wellington and Australia during the first half of the 1980s. Air New Zealand operated DC-8s from Wellington on trans-Tasman routes, but when the planes were retired in 1981 none of its other planes were capable of operating international flights from Wellington – Air New Zealand's DC-10s required extra runway length, and Twinjet planes were not yetETOPS-certified. The 747SP addressed this gap in the market. Air New Zealand (after turning down an offer to purchase the type) codeshared with Qantas. Special markings on the runway assisted Qantas pilots where to touch down and to abort and go round to attempt a landing again. The SP service to Wellington continued until 1985 when Qantas and later Air New Zealand took delivery of the more capable and economical Boeing 767-200ER type. During this time Pan American Airways took an interest in the operation of SPs into the capital and proposed a possible long-range service to the US via Hawaii. However the New Zealand Government refused Pan Am's request for the route, citing Auckland Airport as the main gateway for overseas flights and the ability to generate passenger numbers amongst other things.

From HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington_International_Airport)

Lindstrim
28th Dec 2018, 08:46
I recall they got painted before Singapore started flying there, so word was that it was a requirement from them?

Ollie Onion
28th Dec 2018, 11:04
There was a right up in the latest CAA Vector magazine that said they were painted for specific aircraft categories and if you aircraft type is effected then you would know. I took this to mean that they are used for the 777 and not my wee A320. https://www.caa.govt.nz/assets/legacy/Publications/Vector/Vector-2018-6-Summer.pdf page 15.

Capt Fathom
28th Dec 2018, 11:19
Post #2

Why do people quote and link Flight Sim websites?

KRviator
28th Dec 2018, 12:26
Post #2
Why do people quote and link Flight Sim websites?Good question I hadn't noticed it was a sim-related website to be honest, rather simply read through it's article on the Qantas-initiated markings for Wellington... I Googled the query, and that was one of the pages that came up. Looking deeper, that particular website does nothing more than copy-and-paste the Wikipedia article for Wellington airport (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington_International_Airport). I've updated the link in my initial post.

They also rate a mention in This CAA document (https://www.caa.govt.nz/aerodromes/AD_Markers_and_Marking.pdf), with a note they are only in use at Wellington, and are also covered in this AC (https://www.caa.govt.nz/Advisory_Circulars/AC139_6.pdf).

Feather44
28th Dec 2018, 13:20
"If touchdown is not assured within the TDZ markings, captain has to elect to go around"

Isn't it normal procedure all around the world???

aterpster
29th Dec 2018, 01:32
"If touchdown is not assured within the TDZ markings, captain has to elect to go around"

Isn't it normal procedure all around the world???
In the U.S. the TDZ is the first 3,000' of the runway. My company required a tighter touchdown area.

underfire
29th Dec 2018, 02:08
k. Touchdown Zone. As referenced in the Air Traffic Rules and Procedures Service (ATP) Practical Test Standards Guide, the touchdown zone is defined as a point 500-3,000 feet beyond the runway threshold not to exceed the first one-third of the runway. This definition is not used in landing distance performance calculations. The touchdown zone for certification may be as short as the point where a 3.5 degrees glidepath passing 50 feet over the landing threshold, intercepts the runway surface, which is 820 feet past the landing threshold.

LeadSled
29th Dec 2018, 04:24
Folks,
A little more to the politics than meets the eye.
The B747-200 series was more capable at Wellington then the B747SP --- with its simple flap system.
But CAA NZ didn't want Air New Zealand flying their B747-200 into there, so they couldn't let QF fly functionally the same aircraft, B747-238/338 so QF used the world's (then) longest range aeroplane on its shortest international route.
Ain't politics wonderful.
Tootle pip!!

NZScion
29th Dec 2018, 09:44
From the above mentioned Vector Magazine:

Touchdown zone limit marking

Triangular touchdown zone limit markers are provided at
some aerodromes as ‘go-around points’ for specific types
of heavy aircraft that are runway restricted. The marking
consists of a series of transverse stripes in a right angle
pattern at the runway edges. They are applicable only to
those specific aircraft type
Source Page 14 (https://www.caa.govt.nz/assets/legacy/Publications/Vector/Vector-2018-6-Summer.pdf)

Oakape
29th Dec 2018, 20:54
Suva has them as well.

Ollie Onion
30th Dec 2018, 03:14
And Queenstown

Ka-life
13th Feb 2019, 12:03
Wellingon doesn’t hav much of RESA either. With that short runway why don’t they consider installing an EMAS system?
Becoming more popular in most developed countries now.

flyinGuppy
15th Feb 2019, 15:47
EASA now has something similar with simple touchdown zone lights:

CS ADR-DSN.M.696 Simple touchdown zone lights
ED Decision 2017/021/R

(a) The purpose of simple touchdown zone lights is to provide pilots with enhanced situational awareness in all visibility conditions and to help enable pilots to decide whether to commence a go around if the aircraft has not landed by a certain point on the runway.

(b) Applicability: Except where touchdown zone lights are provided in accordance with CS ADR-DSN.M.695, at a runway where the approach angle is greater than 3.5 degrees and/or the Landing Distance Available combined with other factors increases the risk of an overrun, simple touchdown zone lights should be provided.

ad-astra
27th Nov 2019, 16:43
New link to CAA Document.

https://www.aviation.govt.nz/rules/advisory-circulars/show/AC139-6

Groundloop
28th Nov 2019, 21:19
Regarding the QANTAS SPs, surely they were actually purchased for operating non-stop Trans-Pacific services and they just happend to decide to use them to Wellington because of the limitation imposed?

Slezy9
29th Nov 2019, 21:17
There was a right up in the latest CAA Vector magazine that said they were painted for specific aircraft categories and if you aircraft type is effected then you would know. I took this to mean that they are used for the 777 and not my wee A320. https://www.caa.govt.nz/assets/legacy/Publications/Vector/Vector-2018-6-Summer.pdf page 15.

I operate the A320 into WLG regularly, my company require a go around if not touched down by the markings. I don't necessarily agree with it, but what are you gonna do!