USN Commissions VRM30 - first CMV-22B Squadron for COD

[Asturias56]

The US Navy (USN) has begun the transition from the C-2A Greyhound carrier onboard delivery (COD) aircraft to a modified variant of the Bell-Boeing MV-22 tiltrotor with the commissioning of Fleet Logistics Multi-Mission Squadron 30 (VRM 30) as its first CMV-22B squadron.

The USN in 2015 selected the CMV-22B tiltrotor to meet its Airborne Resupply/Logistics for Seabasing (AR/LSB) requirement, eschewing the alternative option of a life extension for the legacy C-2A Greyhound COD aircraft. Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) awarded the Bell-Boeing Joint Project Office a USD151 million contract in March 2016 for nonrecurring engineering associated with CMV-22B development/engineering change proposal (ECP) embodiment.

According to the navy, the CMV-22B acquisition approach is based on the re-use of a mature platform - in the shape of the MV-22B Block C aircraft - adapted with ECP modification to integrate a series of navy-specific subsystems/requirements: the ECP will add extended range capability with aft/forward external conformal fuel tanks on wings and sponsons, a public address system for use while transporting passengers, fuel jettison capability, cargo bay and loading ramp lighting, and secure beyond-line-of-sight communications with a high frequency (HF) radio.

The main driver for the CMV-22B is to transport the Pratt & Whitney F135 engine - the powerplant for the US Marines Corps' (USMC's) F-35B and the USN's F-35C variants - direct from shore bases to carrier decks. Being able to put the F135 power module inside the tiltrotor is significant because the capability to transport the load internally extends range out to 1,000 n miles. In addition, the CMV-22B will enable direct delivery to amphibious ships as well as carriers.

VRM 30 was formally established on 14 December in a ceremony at Naval Base Coronado in San Diego, California. The first CMV-22B aircraft are scheduled to be delivered to the squadron in fiscal year 2020 (FY 2020).

[BEagle]

How does the UK intend to move F-35B spares to the QE-class carriers?

[Asturias56]

Assuming tthe UK can afford any spares I guess it will be alongside in Portsmouth... no budget for COD I believe and you wouldn't want to transfer at sea - the USN certainly won't

[weemonkey]

How does the UK intend to move F-35B spares to the QE-class carriers?

I believe this will not be an issue as they intent to have everything on board. Trawl F35 cancelled thread ...

[WE Branch Fanatic]

See this post by Engines (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/221116-future-carrier-including-costs-252.html#post10134308) on the Future Carrier thread.

[SASless]

Wee, Just how good are Aircraft Engineers at forecasting spares usage?

If the assumed spare usage is correct for the planned operational period....fine.

What happens when the deployment gets extended....remembering some of our Carriers have stayed at sea and operational for very long times....what then?

Can the UK Carriers conduct underway replenishment to transfer those lacking Spares?

Does the RN have the cargo carrying capacity to do a re-supply to the carrier for those odd items that might be missing from the Carrier stocks in a timely fashion?

It is a long way from Plymouth to the Persian Gulf.

Are your carriers capable of 159 days at sea without a Port Call....without being resupplied with aircraft spares, food, fuel, armament, etc?

https://products.kitsapsun.com/archive/2002/03-28/0043_uss_roosevelt__first_carrier_to_d.html

[Bing]

Wee, Just how good are Aircraft Engineers at forecasting spares usage?

If the assumed spare usage is correct for the planned operational period....fine.

What happens when the deployment gets extended....remembering some of our Carriers have stayed at sea and operational for very long times....what then?

Can the UK Carriers conduct underway replenishment to transfer those lacking Spares?

Does the RN have the cargo carrying capacity to do a re-supply to the carrier for those odd items that might be missing from the Carrier stocks in a timely fashion?

It is a long way from Plymouth to the Persian Gulf.

Are your carriers capable of 159 days at sea without a Port Call....without being resupplied with aircraft spares, food, fuel, armament, etc?

https://products.kitsapsun.com/archive/2002/03-28/0043_uss_roosevelt__first_carrier_to_d.html

I don't think the RN have ever had the ability to air move large items from the UK directly to a deployed carrier at sea so it's not exactly a new problem set.
The carriers in the Falklands war managed a significant period at sea without a port call, so again not a new problem.
Different to the USN doesn't necessarily mean worse, acquiring a CMV-22B capability for the UK would be a significant cost for a limited increase in capability due to the small numbers involved.

[sandiego89]

Agree with those above that this is not as huge an issue that some insist it is. How did Phantom, Sea Harrier, SeaHawk etc. main engines get aboard? While COD is indeed nice to have, carrying spare engines to the air wing is not the main need.

[Asturias56]

I think we need to keep in mind that the QE's are not meant to replicate the Nimitz/Ford CVN's in either role or capacity.

Better to think of them as upgraded "thru deck cruisers" - I do have a horrible worry that this distinction may "go missing" with the passage of time and there'll be repeat of the WW1 "Battle Cruisers are as good as Battleships" disaster

The UK can't afford all the bells and whistles so there will be (necessary) adjustments and lack of capability cp the USN vessels

[SASless]

What is the expressed Operational Use is envisioned for the two Carriers?

How would they be used to supplement/augment the US Navy Carrier fleet?

As you Brits and the French seem quite friendly these days I suppose there would be some common use for the two Nations as well.

Are the two British Carriers decks hardened to enable Osprey landings?

[Lynxman]

An Osprey has already landed on the Queen Elizabeth.

[SASless]

Any damage to the deck from the hot exhaust?

[Autorev]

:ugh:
Nelson didn’t need Carrier OnBoard Delivery / Maritime intra theatre Lift , so why would we need it now?

UK MITL via V-22 is most likely to be a complementary capability to the strategic benefits tiltrotor would provide to a Carrier Strike Group.

[SASless]

An Osprey has already landed on the Queen Elizabeth.


That is much different from being embarked and operating from the Carrier.....much akin to the following video.

https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/video/2016/01/watch-an-c-130-land-on-an-aircraft-carrier/


COD.....you say you want a COD....well boyo....here's a COD for you!

[TBM-Legend]

Remember that a US carrier has upwards of 80 aircraft embarked so logistics is very different from the half squadron that the UK is used to and the QE carriers wont have many more. the CMV-22 can uplift Hornet engines as well as helo and E-2 engines which are modular...

[Coochycool]

With apologies for stirring up the thread drift, a chap I once knew in naval stores was influential in getting a replacement gearbox down to Invincible during her passage south in '82.

I do know that it was flown down by Herc (and I believe sourced from Gib), but I've often wondered how did they ever actually get the thing aboard? Flown to Ascension and barged across? Or was a Chinook able to lift it?

But in answer to the modern day quandry, I suspect UK jets out on sandy ops would simply be rotated, all be it shipped home rather than trailed if U/S.

Quite happy to be contradicted though

Cooch

[ORAC]

I imagine if a sudden emergency arose the RN would able to, perhaps, ask the USN to delver the cargo?

The QE will, after all, be hitting a USMC F-35B squadron for at least the first couple of years of her operational life; and, who knows, perhaps on an ongoing perhaps more permanent basis.....

[Saintsman]

It's been a few years since I worked on aircraft and when I did, it was not unusual for the aircraft to return with a multitude of faults. However theses days, I believe that the serviceability rate is significantly higher.

So although there will be a need for spares, I assume that the amount or range required will not be as great as previous deployments.

[SASless]

The F-35 rotates its nozzle(s) up away from the deck after landing....not so the Osprey with those rather awkward Prop Rotor things either whacking the Deck or Grooming the Marshaller's Top Knots.

[Asturias56]

"That is much different from being embarked and operating from the Carrier..."

true - but it doesn't have to - it operates from where the engines are stored , drops in, unloads engine and goes home ..... Amazon really......

[boxmover]

Wee, Just how good are Aircraft Engineers at forecasting spares usage?

If the assumed spare usage is correct for the planned operational period....fine.

What happens when the deployment gets extended....remembering some of our Carriers have stayed at sea and operational for very long times....what then?

Can the UK Carriers conduct underway replenishment to transfer those lacking Spares?

Does the RN have the cargo carrying capacity to do a re-supply to the carrier for those odd items that might be missing from the Carrier stocks in a timely fashion?

It is a long way from Plymouth to the Persian Gulf.

Are your carriers capable of 159 days at sea without a Port Call....without being resupplied with aircraft spares, food, fuel, armament, etc?

https://products.kitsapsun.com/archive/2002/03-28/0043_uss_roosevelt__first_carrier_to_d.html


Fuel, food, armaments and most and possibly all spares can be transferred to a Carrier via the normal RAS/Vert Rep. The only potential issue is with very large/delicate equipment. With good packaging it should be possible to Vert Rep engines.

[The Sultan]

The F-35 rotates its nozzle(s) up away from the deck after landing....not so the Osprey with those rather awkward Prop Rotor things either whacking the Deck or Grooming the Marshaller's Top Knots.

The Osprey can run with the nacelles tilted to minimize heat on surfaces and move them vertical for vto or tilt further for stol.

[Mk 1]

The Osprey can run with the nacelles tilted to minimize heat on surfaces and move them vertical for vto or tilt further for stol.
That would make for an interesting deck with blades turning at say knee height. Or are you taking about stopping and disengaging the proprotors before tilting? Can that even be done?

[FleurDeLys]

Given that each of the two QE class carriers was built to carry 40 F35s, but that we only have 3 a/c on order for delivery by 2022 (only half of the these for RN, rest RAF), one assumes there will, or the foreseeable future at least, be PLENTY of storage space left over on the hangar deck for capital spares such as engines which would be difficult to bring on board at sea.

[ORAC]

Don’t forget the USMC squadron - presumably with spares being delivered by CMV-22.....

[orca]

FleurdeLys

I think you mean ‘none for the RN’ - all for the RAF. Whilst the force is a Joint one the RN won’t take delivery of a single aircraft.

[SASless]

Now let's get this straight.....the RN has two Aircraft Carriers....but no FJ aircraft?

But....the RAF which was split off from the RN long before WWII.....has no Aircraft Carriers.

Now what could possibly go wrong?

What color uniforms will the RAF Naval Air Half Squadrons wear? (Please don't morph into a dissertation on Hat Badges please.....as this is all too complicated all of a sudden as it is.)

[The Sultan]

That would make for an interesting deck with blades turning at say knee height. Or are you taking about stopping and disengaging the proprotors before tilting? Can that even be done?

in a short/running takeoff the blade tips would be above 7 ft so no kneecapping. However this is irrelevant as when making the takeoff run the deck in front will be clear.

Note: The CV-22’s will routinely STOL to accommodate higher payloads.