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CONSO
24th Dec 2018, 20:35
Delta flight from Beijing to Seattle lands on Alaskan island due to ‘potential engine issue’Originally published December 24, 2018 at 11:22 am Updated December 24, 2018 at 1:02 pm

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/delta-flight-from-beijing-to-seattle-lands-on-alaskan-island-due-to-engine-issue-alaska-public-media-reports/


The carrier sent another aircraft to pick up the 194 passengers. The flight back to Seattle is scheduled to land at about 9 p.m.By Asia Fields (https://www.seattletimes.com/author/asia-fields/)Seattle Times staff reporterA commercial passenger flight by Delta Airlines flying from Beijing to Seattle landed on a remote Alaskan island out of caution after notification of a potential engine issue, according to the airline.The carrier sent another aircraft to pick up the 194 passengers, Delta spokeswoman Savannah Huddleston said in an emailed statement.The diverted plane, flight DL 128, is a Boeing 767-300ER. The plane on the way to pick up the passengers is flight DL 9950 and is scheduled to land at about 1:15 p.m. Seattle time, according to data from FlightAware (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9950), a flight-tracking website.

The AvgasDinosaur
24th Dec 2018, 21:05
Hope they kept the blinds down!
Used to be some secret/sexy Boeings there. Maybe still are?
Be lucky
David

wiedehopf
24th Dec 2018, 21:16
That's really a lovely place.

Eareckson Air Station on Shemya Island:
https://goo.gl/maps/FkMq21BZHFm

Alaskan Island does not do it justice. More like the middle of absolutely nowhere.

PastTense
25th Dec 2018, 02:41
Wikipedia article on the air station:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eareckson_Air_Station

weemonkey
25th Dec 2018, 16:42
Isn't that where the spooks went up in 135's to capture "images" of sov re-entry vehicles?

Phantom Driver
25th Dec 2018, 17:47
Hope the weather was good . Every time I went past , the wind was usually blowing 30 knots plus , low vis and cloud base 200 feet or thereabouts .

tdracer
25th Dec 2018, 20:39
I keep thinking of a couple hundred people - boarding in Beijing from a heated loading bridge (with OAT around freezing), planning to exit via a heated loading bridge in Seattle (with an OAT around freezing), suddenly finding they have to exit the airplane on an outdoor stairway with an OAT around -40.:eek:
Brrrrrr

Sailvi767
25th Dec 2018, 21:00
I keep thinking of a couple hundred people - boarding in Beijing from a heated loading bridge (with OAT around freezing), planning to exit via a heated loading bridge in Seattle (with an OAT around freezing), suddenly finding they have to exit the airplane on an outdoor stairway with an OAT around -40.:eek:
Brrrrrr

Its currently 1 degree centigrade in Shemya.

NWA SLF
26th Dec 2018, 01:18
The average December temperatures in Shemya are 2 degrees high and -2 degrees low. The record December low was -14, all temps Celsius. Its still a good distance from mainland Siberia so the temps are moderated by the surrounding seawater. Sitting here at -14 it might be a welcome reprieve.

Airbubba
26th Dec 2018, 03:18
Isn't that where the spooks went up in 135's to capture "images" of sov re-entry vehicles?

Yes, and Cobra Ball RC-135S 62-4128 from Offutt is in theater as we speak to monitor an upcoming test. By tradition the starboard wing and engines of the RC are painted black on the Cobra Ball.

Carbon Bootprint
26th Dec 2018, 04:11
A Cathay Pacific 777 also diverted to Eareckson about three years ago after smoke appeared in the cockpit. I suppose there's not much that can be done with a plane that has 200-300 pax on board at a place like that other than keep them there until a relief craft arrives. But I guess at times like that it's good that the place is there.

aterpster
26th Dec 2018, 12:34
A Cathay Pacific 777 also diverted to Eareckson about three years ago after smoke appeared in the cockpit. I suppose there's not much that can be done with a plane that has 200-300 pax on board at a place like that other than keep them there until a relief craft arrives. But I guess at times like that it's good that the place is there.
Under the ETOP rules isn't a planned diversion airport supposed to have facilities in place to reasonably accommodate the passengers and crew?

A320ECAM
26th Dec 2018, 12:40
I guess the pax are given a hotel for the night until the rescue aircraft arrives?

fox niner
26th Dec 2018, 13:09
Under the ETOP rules isn't a planned diversion airport supposed to have facilities in place to reasonably accommodate the passengers and crew?


Actually, no. For an etops enroute airport to be “adequate” you do not even need fuel at the airfield.(theoretically)

It is one of the trick questions presented to us during command training.

aterpster
26th Dec 2018, 14:03
Actually, no. For an etops enroute airport to be “adequate” you do not even need fuel at the airfield.(theoretically)

It is one of the trick questions presented to us during command training.

I received this email yesterday from a good friend who flew those routes for UAL until a couple of years ago. His take is different. I include the entire message because it's all relevant to some extent:
I suppose you know the history of Shemya, as it relates to the beginning of airline service to the "Orient" - by what was then called Northwest Orient Airlines. They leased the entire island for use as a maintenance, staging and refueling point, and using it as an ETOPS alternate is quite common in today's trans-Pacific operations.

Reading the article, it sounds as though Delta *may* have left those poor people on the airplane for 12 hours. Whether or not they did, the airline is *supposed* to have all logistics arranged in advance for just such a diversion - including de-planing, food, lodging, etc.

I flew several trips with a guy who had once had to divert to Cold Bay, population ~80 - at least at the time of year of their diversion. They all stayed on the island ~24 hours, with the passengers "accommodated" (cough!) in a gymnasium or similar. I once flew over the Aleutians on a quite rare clear, moonlit night, and those mountain peaks stick up awfully close to the various diversion airports. Sure glad it wasn't me!

lomapaseo
26th Dec 2018, 14:59
Air regulations (ETOPS etal.) typically provide for air-safety while aboard an airplane. They can't foresee living accommodations on the ground or the presence of unwelcoming citizenry

aterpster
26th Dec 2018, 16:05
Air regulations (ETOPS etal.) typically provide for air-safety while aboard an airplane. They can't foresee living accommodations on the ground or the presence of unwelcoming citizenry
That's basically the same claim the Secret Service makes when insisting on a 4-engine airplane for Air Force One for international flights.

Airbubba
26th Dec 2018, 16:19
That's basically the same claim the Secret Service makes when insisting on a 4-engine airplane for Air Force One for international flights.

And since one of the VC-25A's is still in the shop, C-32A (B-752) 09-0015 is being used as a backup for today's 'stealth' AF1 mission (Reach 358 ;)) to the Middle East.

NWA SLF
26th Dec 2018, 18:09
Shemya differs from most Aleutian Islands in that it is not mountainous. Its a plateau about 30 meters above sea level. Temperatures moderated by the ocean but it is in the Aleutians so I assume ice fog quite often this time of year. No 5 star hotels but could be worse alternate sites. Leaving the poor people on the plane for 12 hours - what is the longest passenger flight today? I believe it is around 18 hours. I've been forced to leave planes delayed the weather and wished I was still in my seat watching movies rather than lying on a concrete floor. I know a lot of others on those flights didn't feel the same way but its all in the attitude you take.

SeenItAll
26th Dec 2018, 18:52
And since one of the VC-25A's is still in the shop, C-32A (B-752) 09-0015 is being used as a backup for today's 'stealth' AF1 mission (Reach 358 ;)) to the Middle East.

How does that work? The 757 will need to stop for refueling. Did the 747 also stop along the way to maintain proximity to the back-up? (Yes, I know that the 747 does have aerial refueling, but AFAIK, it has never been used while a President is onboard).

Airbubba
26th Dec 2018, 19:32
How does that work? The 757 will need to stop for refueling. Did the 747 also stop along the way to maintain proximity to the back-up? (Yes, I know that the 747 does have aerial refueling, but AFAIK, it has never been used while a President is onboard).

The 757 departed Andrews a couple of hours early and stopped in Ramstein for gas but the 747 went non-stop. The 747 used a bogus unassigned ADS-B code with the Reach callsign. The 757 is often airborne nearby when the 747 is due to depart so they can swoop down and get the pax if the '74 goes AOG for a maintenance problem.

Over on the civilian side, U.S. carriers are required to have an approved passenger recovery plan in their ops manual for ETOPS over 180 minutes.

From a Boeing article:

Passenger recovery plan.

Revised regulation 14 CFR requires that for all ETOPS flying beyond 180 minutes (excluding 207-minute ETOPS, as explained above), and for all polar operations, the air carrier must develop a plan to ensure the well-being of passengers and crew members at each approved en route alternate airport listed in this carrier's operations specifications. Because challenging alternate airports tend to be found in the most remote parts of the world, passenger recovery plans are no longer required for ETOPS below 180 minutes.

This passenger recovery plan must address the safety and comfort, in terms of facilities and accommodations, of stranded passengers at the diversion airport. As its name suggests, it must also address their prompt retrieval from the airport.

Polar operations also require passenger recovery plans, as codified in this rulemaking's polar policy. Initially implemented as an FAA policy letter in 2001, this polar policy also requires diversion airport planning, another key ETOPS concept. Despite these similarities, however, polar operations are distinct from ETOPS because North and South Polar operations entail unique requirements, such as special onboard equipment and a fuel freeze strategy.

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_2_07/article_02_5.html

I'm guessing that Delta's B-763's are 180-minute ETOPS and may not legally require it, but they probably still have an explicit pax recovery plan in the book for places like PASY and PACD.

aterpster
26th Dec 2018, 22:52
Interesting stuff. Sort of like a Tom Clancy book. I suspect nearing the bad guys, the 747 picked up a fighter escort.

mustbeaboeing
27th Dec 2018, 08:18
Airbubba.

To be pedantic, your posts possibly say different things, and I am a bit confused.

Over on the civilian side, U.S. carriers are required to have an approved passenger recovery plan in their ops manual for ETOPS over 180 minutes.

Then....the ‘quote’ from Boeing

requires that for all ETOPS flying beyond 180 minutes


You then said.....

I'm guessing that Delta's B-763's are 180-minute ETOPS and may not legally require it


The pedantic bit, perhaps on my part, is that if Delta’s B-763’s are 180 minute ETOPS, they are not beyond 180 minutes.

I appreciate you do state may not legally require it.

It is is a very interesting discussion nevertheless.

filejw
27th Dec 2018, 14:09
Delta’s plan is to send a/c to pic up stranded passengers.

Airbubba
27th Dec 2018, 15:39
Airbubba.

To be pedantic, your posts possibly say different things, and I am a bit confused.

Over on the civilian side, U.S. carriers are required to have an approved passenger recovery plan in their ops manual for ETOPS over 180 minutes.

Then....the ‘quote’ from Boeing

requires that for all ETOPS flying beyond 180 minutes


You then said.....

I'm guessing that Delta's B-763's are 180-minute ETOPS and may not legally require it


The pedantic bit, perhaps on my part, is that if Delta’s B-763’s are 180 minute ETOPS, they are not beyond 180 minutes.

I appreciate you do state may not legally require it.

It is is a very interesting discussion nevertheless.

Well, since I'm not sure what level of ETOPS Delta uses on the venerable B-763, I'm not sure if the passenger recovery plan is a required part of the DL ops manual for that particular plane. But, I'll hedge my bets even more since the Boeing article was written in 2007 and exemptions and advisory circulars inevitably modify things as time goes on in my experience.

I'm not rightly sure, in other words. ;)

It turns out that on the NOPAC routes when, say, Shemya is below mins or closed for some reason, if you have 180-minute ETOPS, you can get approval for 207-minute ETOPS on an exception basis without the 'over 180-minute' requirements.

From the Boeing article I cited above:

Note that 207-minute ETOPS is not subject to the new ETOPS requirements for "beyond-180-minute flight operations.” Flown since 2000, this authority arose as a 15 percent operational extension, for limited use on an exception basis, to 180-minute ETOPS authority. it is thus considered an extension of and subject to the requirements for the traditional 180-minute “twinjet ETOPS” diversion authority.

Airbubba
27th Dec 2018, 15:57
Delta’s plan is to send a/c to pic up stranded passengers.

The pax went to SEA on DL9928 on Christmas Eve:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9928/history/20181224/2355Z/PASY/KSEA

Thanks to Delta and the dateline for same day service. :ok:

tdracer
27th Dec 2018, 17:45
The pax went to SEA on DL9928 on Christmas Eve:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9928/history/20181224/2355Z/PASY/KSEA

Thanks to Delta and the dateline for same day service. :ok:

The passengers reportedly arrived in Seattle about 12 hours late.
Not bad at all, considering the circumstances.