Britain sends "strong" message to Russia

[Phantom Driver]

In these Brexit times, I know there are some who still hanker for the good old "Rule Britannia" days of gunboat diplomacy--send in a warship to quell the troublesome natives . However , I would have thought Gavin Williamson could have done a little better than HMS Echo ( an oceanographic survey vessel with minimal combat capability) sent to show solidarity with Ukraine .

Putin must be quaking in his boots .https://www.pprune.org/images/infopop/icons/icon9.gif

[fantom]

You and I could threaten to go as a pair. That should do it.

[reds & greens]

If you get really desperate, there's a couple of Pedalo's at Cleethorpes which can be brought out of deep winter servicing...

[fantom]

Pedalo's


Point of Order: Inappropriate use of apostrophe.

[SASless]

Well it is called Gunboat Diplomacy for a reason.

There is a "gun" of some sort on that vessel surely.....at least a Very Pistol....right?

[Jetstream67]

In these Brexit times, I know there are some who still hanker for the good old "Rule Britannia" days of gunboat diplomacy--send in a warship to quell the troublesome natives . However , I would have thought Gavin Williamson could have done a little better than HMS Echo ( an oceanographic survey vessel with minimal combat capability) sent to show solidarity with Ukraine .

Putin must be quaking in his boots .https://www.pprune.org/images/infopop/icons/icon9.gif

In diplomatic terms it is a great choice.

As half the world's taxi drivers are better armed it can't credibly be called 'armed provocation' etc. yet if Russia interfere with it in any way they are plainly attacking the UK Navy which they might be keen to avoid . ..

I'd say it's diplomatic chess at it's best.

[eckhard]

I'd say it's diplomatic chess at it's best.

Another Point of Order: it’s “its”, not “it’s”!

[ORAC]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amethyst_Incident

[topgas]

I'd say it's diplomatic chess at it's best.
Another Point of Order: it’s “its”, not “it’s”!

It's only the second one that is incorrect

[ex82watcher]

Another Point of Order: it’s “its”, not “it’s”!
Oh no it isn't !

[ex82watcher]

Withdraw my last comment.

[NutLoose]

Ahhhh yes, another farcial exampleNATO’s tanks fleet shows firepower near Russian borderBattle Groups Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland participated in exercise Iron Tomahawk in the Camp Adazi Training Area outside Riga and near the Russian border.
According to officials of the NATO enhanced Forward Presence Battle Group Latvia, this tank concentration showcased the firepower, interoperability, and lethality of heavy armour capability along its Eastern flank.

QUAKING IN YOUR BOOTS YET PUTIN ???????

In exercises took part 17 tanks, included modern Abrams, Leopard-2, Challenger-2, and Polish PT-91 Twardy.

THAT'LL BE A NO THEN!!

https://defence-blog.com/army/natos-tanks-fleet-shows-firepower-near-russian-border.html

[TBM-Legend]

Mr Putin, the Royal Navy "gunboat" has arrived - Be Afraid!

[peterperfect]

HMS Endurance's regional presence successfully maintained control of the Falklands and South Georgia. She was a survey vessel. Look what happened in 1982 when the government announced her withdrawal....

[Mogwi]

Ah, but she was armed with the mighty Westland Wasp and the redoubtable Tony E!

Merry Christmas to all,

Mog

[Whenurhappy]

Echo is an ideal choice; the ship is non-escalators in its presence and also its deployment is a function of surface unit availability.

Moreover (and I’ll get more than tedious here) she is limited to 21 days in the Black Sea and constitutes part of the non-Black Sea aggregate tonnage allowed under the Convention of the Régime of the Straits, better known as the Montreux Convention 1936. This Convention not only limits non-littoral States tonnages and duration, it imposes limits on types (aircraft carriers and submarines are prohibited) and all movements are notified in English and French to States party to the convention, by the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

In this case, the UK - as part of NATO - can send a relatively small, but very capable vessel, into the Black Sea, but gives wiggle-room to send more and larger vessels if the need arises.

The Montreux Convention is a very effective balance of power document; it reduces risk of external escalation.

[Asturias56]

The Captain probably carries a baseball bat under his command station..............

It's probably very very good at measuring the water depth but the only message it sends is that the Royal Navy is a bit short of real warships...................... and overstocked with PR people

[A_Van]

......Battle Groups Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland participated in exercise Iron Tomahawk in the Camp Adazi Training Area outside Riga and near the Russian border.
........
In exercises took part 17 tanks, included modern Abrams, Leopard-2, Challenger-2, and Polish PT-91 Twardy.
,,,,


Sounds quite frightening and scary, indeed ;)

There is an old joke on this matter:
General staff of one of the (above) Baltic superpowers is planning an offensive at Russia.
"And the tanks will attack from the left flank" - suggests one of the generals. "All of them at once?" asks another one. "No, first will go No. 1 and a minute later - No. 2".

[chevvron]

We haven't got too many navy ships to spare; it would probably either be 'too cold' for a Type 45 or they wouldn't have the right fuel for it.

[SASless]

Echo is an ideal choice; the ship is non-escalators in its presence and also its deployment is a function of surface unit availability.

Also stated as "lack of availability".

Can a Dry Dock be deployed to the Black Sea under the terms of the Treaty?:oh:

[Melchett01]

Also stated as "lack of availability".

Can a Dry Dock be deployed to the Black Sea under the terms of the Treaty?:oh:

The Russians would likely put an offer in if you could deploy one!

[Whenurhappy]

Can a Dry Dock be deployed to the Black Sea under the terms of the Treaty?:oh:

Yes it can as it is not a ‘vessel of war’.

[Marly Lite]

It would be interesting to see what the response to Russia deploying a vessel of some description to theEnglish Channel or the Irish Sea for example.

The Russians seem to me to have been relatively reserved in their response to the continued provocation by NATO nations in recent times.

I spoke to a quite senior officer a couple of years ago as he took over the station I was serving at about his previous job. "Oh I've been at JFC dealing with the Russian threat" so I asked him did he not think that the Russian threat was overplayed? "No, they're being quite, err naughty."

I asked him him did he not think that NATO lying about its future intentions and expanding into the former Eastern European states and deploying jets and troops to Lithuania was a gross provocation?"

He didn't have an answer. I realised then that he was an idiot. He hadn't thought about what was going on and was just toeing the standard line. The UK seems quite happy to follow the US in policy in this regard.

I'm not saying that Russia is whiter than white. The recent poisonings are an example, however I wonder if we in the West have forced the issue by being so old fashioned in our thinking.

[Asturias56]

Standard drill in any armed forces anywhere at any time

You trail past the opposition to :-

a) see if they are awake

b) what they actually DO and how fast they do it

c) remind them you're alive

d) show your guys they're not Supermen

d) show your own politicians you are ready

same went for Nelson etc etc

[TEEEJ]

It would be interesting to see what the response to Russia deploying a vessel of some description to theEnglish Channel or the Irish Sea for example.
The Russian Navy regularly transits through the English Channel. Their specialised survey ship Yantar has in past years been hanging about in the North Sea off the East Coast (Lincolnshire). Apart from a shadowing Royal Navy escort nothing happens in response.

The Yantar and other vessels have also been off the East Coast of the US and Canada in recent years.

RFS Yantar, the Russian Navy’s oceanographic vessel – also referred to as spy ship, underwater reconnaissance ship or seabed research ship – was escorted by several NATO ships as it transited the English Channel into the North Sea.

https://navaltoday.com/2018/06/04/nato-ships-meet-russian-underwater-reconnaissance-vessel-in-english-channel/

The Yantar is a new-build and highly specialised.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42543712

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/u-s-shadowing-russian-ship-in-atlantic-near-nuclear-submarine-areas/

[Two's in]

In exercises took part 17 tanks, included modern Abrams, Leopard-2, Challenger-2...

Now call me an old badger, but when I was doing post met brief AFV recognition slides in 1642, all of those tanks were part of the set. They may well have been "modernized", but they are anything but "modern".

[FODPlod]

It would be interesting to see what the response to Russia deploying a vessel of some description to the English Channel or the Irish Sea for example.

The Russians seem to me to have been relatively reserved in their response to the continued provocation by NATO nations in recent times...


I find it interesting that you’re implying that the Black Sea is a Russian lake whereas half of it is bounded by three NATO nations, namely Bulgaria, Romania and Turkey. That’s more than Russia borders.

[Jetstream67]

Another Point of Order: it’s “its”, not “it’s”!
Two out of three ain't bad ? :uhoh:

[A_Van]

NATO and US ships are for decades exercising in the Black Sea. And these are not "paramilitary" boats, sometimes cruisers and destroyers. I have not heard that Russia was overconcerned until anybody was going to enter its territorial waters.
Even this well-known incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Black_Sea_bumping_incident was not considered as a "casus belli" at all. It was understood that it just was check of the quality of iron that seamen balls were made of :-)

[Marly Lite]

FODPlod,

They were Warsaw Pact countries a few years ago. The US and the UK gave assurances that, upon reunification of Germany, there would be no eastwards expansion of NATO. They reneged upon this unwritten agreement.

My point is that we are provoking/probing the Russians. They then react to this in other or similar ways. Its all a bit childish.
I am no appeaser, but I do wonder if we should relax a bit about Russian intentions. If we had stuck by our word we may have had better relations with Russia.

[Imagegear]

We had a better relationship with Russia, it is not the West's doing that the ex-Warsaw Pact countries decided that they were better off casting in their lot with democracy and capitalism rather than the Russian version of Utopia. Now the problem is amplified because politicians and the media are single tracked on events in Crimea and Ukraine for good reason.

Think which other countries in Europe have local regions of predominantly Russian residents. So where will the next masked, armed and unidentified "advisors" appear to "help" the poor, downtrodden, Russian residents reacquire their "right to independence". It's not rocket science is it? Political posturing is one thing, invading the territory of an independent country is a whole new "mess o' beans". Trust needs to work both ways.

IG

[SASless]

What a minute....the Media and other Lefties have been crucifying President Trump for any kind of contact with Putin....He (Putin) is supposed to be isolated and not talked with last time I checked.

Which is it....better relations or isolation of the Russians while Putin is running the show?

[Asturias56]

Botth - much as you dislike someone if they have N -weapons you HAVE to talk to them - see The Fat Boy, India/Pakistan etc