FUEL NOTAMS

[YPJT]

Just received the following from CASA:

"With immediate effect a NOTAM authorised originator may submit a NOTAM request advising that fuel, oil or oxygen is not available.
The NOF will now issue this type of NOTAM
The NOTAM is only required to advise the estimate or known period of time the type of fuel is not available, and contact details should further information be required.
AIP and other authorised documents will be updated early 2019"

Finally a win for common sense

[CaptainMidnight]

Just received the following from CASA:

"With immediate effect a NOTAM authorised originator may submit a NOTAM request advising that fuel, oil or oxygen is not available.
The NOF will now issue this type of NOTAM
The NOTAM is only required to advise the estimate or known period of time the type of fuel is not available, and contact details should further information be required.
AIP and other authorised documents will be updated early 2019"

Finally a win for common sense

It doesn't do much. Note that says "... MAY submit a NOTAM request ..."

If there is no NOTAM re fuel not available, do you assume it is available?

No - if you have any sense.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

VERY True Captain...…

No Cheers

[Stationair8]

Perhaps we could also have a NOTAM for the airport coffee shop hours, local UV forecast etc!

[geeup]

Stationair8 I’d find that info more useful :}
Happy Hour times too if you don’t mind

[YPJT]

It doesn't do much. Note that says "... MAY submit a NOTAM request ..."
i think you are reading too much into this. Previously you could not submit a NOTAM request.

It will only be as reliable as the fuel agents through the airport operators getting the NOTAM out. Just like every other issue that may occur.

i would have thought this change might have been given something of a more positive response given the outrage I have witnessed in the past.

[CaptainMidnight]

i think you are reading too much into this.
I think not.

It needs to be understood that simply because there isn't a NOTAM saying fuel NAVBL, doesn't mean fuel is available.
>

I don't believe CASA has the authority to mandate refuellers have NOTAM issued in the event of no fuel available;
Few refuellers would be "a NOTAM authorised originator";
Some will adopt the practice, others won't want the responsibility;
Others (most, in my experience) would hold the view that "if you want fuel, phone me beforehand, don't just lob up".

What may happen sooner or later is no NOTAM issued, someone assuming fuel is available and it isn't, and getting stuck into the refueller for not having a NOTAM published.

The past discussions I recall recognised that it is pilot responsibility to determine whether or not fuel is available, therefore make a phone call and don't assume anything.

[outnabout]

YPJT, I am with you. This is a step in the right direction.

Captain Midnight, I disagree.

In my experience, bashing around the bush, refuellers would love the chance to avoid abuse by saying "No Avgas here". In my experience, the attitude you subscribe ("if you want fuel, phone, don't just lob up") to refuellers only pops up:
*During after hours call outs, where numptys rock up without notice and expect the red carpet.
*The pilot who turns up and (for whatever reason) take the bare minimum (the pilot who took 17 litres at Marree springs to mind. The result in this instance is the refueller doesn't cover the cost of starting the truck or driving out from town.

I disagree, strongly, with your comment "Some will adopt the practice, others won't want the responsibility". Desert Flower (and others) will attest that refuellers already hold a considerable amount of responsibility, and so the issuing of NOTAMS will become just another part of the job.

[catseye]

interesting turn around. Al Bridges from ASA point blank refused to issue notams as they were not in the Icao requirements.

how the wheel turns. Greatcoats on .... Aerodrome reporting officer or whatever called this week can raise the notam.

[YPJT]

I wonder how long it will be until someone calls ahead to check fuel availability and gets the grumpy refueller saying "If I didn't have fuel I would have f**king NOTAMed it"

As Brian said to the lepper "There's just no pleasing some people"

[CaptainMidnight]

I disagree, strongly, with your comment "Some will adopt the practice, others won't want the responsibility".

I recall when the matter of NOTAM for fuel availability was raised at a RAPAC some 10 years ago a survey of refuellers was done (I don't know how or who were consulted), what I said above was the result, along with the opinion that pilots should phone before flight to ascertain availability.

So all I am saying is, no NOTAM don't assume fuel is available - phone first.

I suspect CASA will surround the text in AIP with similar outs i.e. "However ..." "Pilots are reminded that ..." etc.

And why wouldn't you check ahead beforehand??

[YPJT]

So all I am saying is, no NOTAM don't assume fuel is available - phone first
No argument there. There are many things in my experience not being as they should at an airport that haven't been reported.

[Piston_Broke]

I recall when the matter of NOTAM for fuel availability was raised at a RAPAC some 10 years ago a survey of refuellers was done (I don't know how or who were consulted), what I said above was the result, along with the opinion that pilots should phone before flight to ascertain availability.

So all I am saying is, no NOTAM don't assume fuel is available - phone first.

I suspect CASA will surround the text in AIP with similar outs i.e. "However ..." "Pilots are reminded that ..." etc.

And why wouldn't you check ahead beforehand??

I agree. Some might do it some might not, if there isn't a NOTAM you can't assume fuel is available.

Common sense says phone ahead, as well as being common courtesy.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

will attest that refuellers already hold a considerable amount of responsibility, and so the issuing of NOTAMS will become just another part of the job
What responsibility would that be, apart from that directly involved with their business? If they are also the designated Aerodrome Reporting Officer, then issuing NOTAM is already part of that job. If they are not, then they cannot issue NOTAM.

[YPJT]

What responsibility would that be, apart from that directly involved with their business? If they are also the designated Aerodrome Reporting Officer, then issuing NOTAM is already part of that job. If they are not, then they cannot issue NOTAM
At most regional airports I have been at, the refueller normally has a pretty close relationship with the airport staff. If the fuel availability goes down for whatever reason, a quick phone call to airport management asking to get a NOTAM in is not really that big a problem.

[andrewr]

I agree. Some might do it some might not, if there isn't a NOTAM you can't assume fuel is available.

Common sense says phone ahead, as well as being common courtesy.

NOTAMs probably help frequent users more than the pilot who passes through once in a blue moon.

If you haven't been there in months, certainly, call and find out the current fuel situation. If you fly in and refuel every day, how often should you call to check fuel is available? That's when a NOTAM will be helpful.

[Ixixly]

I don't see why the hatred for this, those that call ahead will still call ahead because that's what they do (I agree it's the right thing as well) those that don't will have a second chance if they check NOTAMs, this will help stop those who try to get fuel and arrive to find it isn't available from getting there in the first place and possibly then deciding to push on somewhere nearby without quite enough fuel to get more.

Also these NOTAMs will also be available for ATC I assume? "ABC, just received a NOTAM that fuel has become unavailable at your landing aerodrome", "ABC, copy your diversion due fuel, FYI fuel not available at your new diversion according to NOTAM just issued". Lots of good can come out of this and no real negative. No extra responsibilties on the Refueler, Pilot or anyone else but extra opportunity for situations to be caught before they become situations potentially.

[Horatio Leafblower]

We recently did Birdsville Races - several of our aircraft went out over 6 days. Phone calls were made. Quantities checked. Yeah mate we've got plenty. A C404 and a Baron turned up at Thargomindah to be told "sorry mate sold more than we thought".
Luckily, both aircraft had enough to get to the next place (hey... we're professionals and that) but a heads up from BN CEN would have helped a hell of a lot.

I am with YPJT.... this is a great thing. Good development. Well done... putting the "Service" back into AirCervixesAustralia

[buckshot1777]

I don't see why the hatred for this,
<snip>

Where do you get "hatred" from??

All some are saying is: don't rely solely on a NOTAM being issued - it won't be compulsory for them to be issued - use common sense and make a phone call if fuel availability is critical to you.