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knallebumm
18th Dec 2018, 10:31
Hello everybody,

so I would like to discuss the upcoming eQRH on EFBs.
Would do you think about it? Especially when you think of using it in an emergency Situation with smoke and/or turbulence.
Isnīt it faster and safer to use the "old" QRH in a paper version?

What do you think?

Thanks,
Christian

OvertHawk
18th Dec 2018, 11:51
In my experience it's an improvement once you get used to it but it does take training and practice.

It's important to have a well designed eQRH app (not just a PDF file of the paper checklist loaded on an ipad) as it allows for features that a paper checklist cannot - ours for example has an interactive Caution Warning panel where you click on the Caption you've got and it takes you to the appropriate page. It has links in the processes that take you to associated procedures (Such as lowering the gear using backup systems in the case of a hydraulic problem). It also has a traditional index of procedures if you wish to find them in the normal manner.



So... as long as you've got a well designed app and you put the effort into getting really familiar with how it works (just as you would any other procedure or change) then i think it's a real improvement.

Good luck
OH

Yaw String
18th Dec 2018, 16:17
The 787 electronic checklist works seemlessly,with standard paper backup in usual place.
Fuel leak checklist can be a 48 step pain,unless you use some logical thought.

Denti
18th Dec 2018, 16:48
The 787 electronic checklist works seemlessly,with standard paper backup in usual place.
Fuel leak checklist can be a 48 step pain,unless you use some logical thought.

Different thing though. eQRH means electronic instead of the paper backup, it will remove the paper on board. I used an eQRH for a while which also replaced the paper checklists. As OverHawk mentions, a well designed application is actually quite an improvement over the paper version, as it can add additional prompting, information and direct links. Not to mention that you can mark steps as done so you know where you are in a procedure.

J.O.
18th Dec 2018, 17:12
A checklist on a tablet EFB is not the same thing as one that is built in to the display system in an aircraft. With hands shaking from a traumatic event (it does happen), it's much easier to press the keys on the aircraft control panel than to touch the correct place on the screen of a tablet.

Denti
18th Dec 2018, 17:47
A checklist on a tablet EFB is not the same thing as one that is built in to the display system in an aircraft. With hands shaking from a traumatic event (it does happen), it's much easier to press the keys on the aircraft control panel than to touch the correct place on the screen of a tablet.

Again, an eQRH is not a replacement for the inbuilt systems (which are touchscreen based as well, in some aircraft). It is a replacement for an existing paper QRH with added value, preferably integrated into the performance and documentation suite of apps.

compressor stall
19th Dec 2018, 05:35
It might be upcoming for you, but others have been using eQRH on iPad for a while now.

It is a bit of an attitude adjustment, but works well. The A320 eQRH smoke procedure in particular is a vast improvement over the paper one. Familiarity is important.

Iím not a bit fan of the eQRH for normal checklist, it works ok but it is annoying having to flick back and forth from the approach plates, as such personally I prefer to use paper checklist.

A and C
19th Dec 2018, 05:57
If you have an eQRH ( and some are very good ) then you need a paper back up to cover the situation of electrical problems disabling the eQRH or smoke in the cockpit that reduces visibility.

I know both situations are unlikely but Sodís law says it will happen to someone some time.

Denti
19th Dec 2018, 07:31
If you have an eQRH ( and some are very good ) then you need a paper back up to cover the situation of electrical problems disabling the eQRH or smoke in the cockpit that reduces visibility.

I know both situations are unlikely but Sodís law says it will happen to someone some time.

True in a way, however, in the setup i worked in, it was a triple iPad solution (one for each pilot plus a spare one), all of which had to be charged up, which gives at least 30 hours of combined battery life. And honestly, especially the smoke stuff is better with an EFB, increase screen brightness and it helps a lot, much better than a paper one. Would prefer that a lot over the current paper setup i have to use, but then, that company uses still paper for a lot of stuff, they are sadly around 20 years behind the times.

Sailvi767
19th Dec 2018, 11:35
If you have an eQRH ( and some are very good ) then you need a paper back up to cover the situation of electrical problems disabling the eQRH or smoke in the cockpit that reduces visibility.

I know both situations are unlikely but Sod’s law says it will happen to someone some time.

i suspect that the new generation iPads would be much better than a paper checklist in a smoke situation. They will automatically ramp up the brightness and you can blow the print up to any size you want instantly. Two or Three iPads failing at the same time is statistically almost impossible.

Snyggapa
19th Dec 2018, 17:05
Two or Three iPads failing at the same time is statistically almost impossible.

unless there is some kind of upset event that bangs them on the floor or the ceiling. Are they fixed or stowed, or are they loose objects in the cabin?

Or a bug or virus that is time triggered. Or a hack. Or electrostatic event like a lightning strike.

I'd rather there was at least one paper copy, personally, just in case.

Sailvi767
19th Dec 2018, 21:22
In the US it is a requirement that they be secured in a mount. A total electrical failure at night is unlikely also but would make a paper checklist hard to use. One hand on a flashlight that takes time to find and the other holding a checklist. A EFB would provide decent cockpit illumination just by turning it on.

compressor stall
20th Dec 2018, 02:49
If you have an eQRH ( and some are very good ) then you need a paper back up to cover the situation of electrical problems disabling the eQRH or smoke in the cockpit that reduces visibility.

I know both situations are unlikely but Sodís law says it will happen to someone some time.

Not true in all countries. Many allow dual iPad with the third iPad as a backup.
Airbus donít provide a paper QRH and havenít for 2 years.

And the EFBs have to be in an approved mount.

jaja
20th Dec 2018, 08:41
Airbus donít provide a paper QRH and havenít for 2 years.

Not true - Airbus still provide the paper QRH

compressor stall
20th Dec 2018, 14:48
No, they provide a QRH on PDF which some companies can take the option of printing and binding into a paper QRH themselves. The supplied already printed QRH material from AB ceased in 2016 ish.

FlightDetent
20th Dec 2018, 16:34
True, but that is just a logistics excercise. Those PDFs are not supposed to be used in elec. form (though many may have decided to do so).

As well, technically the FLT OPS ENG will generate the files in-house, the whole agenda have been off-loaded towards the customer.

ShotOne
21st Dec 2018, 12:31
Terrible idea; the last thing one needs in a serious emergency is to be trying to coax vital information from a poorly-indexed user-unfriendly device which youíre also using for the approach plates to get the aircraft on the ground. I concede this may be partly a reflection of the particular (HP) device selected by my employer.

FlightDetent
21st Dec 2018, 13:03
One thing for sure, having the Normal C/L laminated sheet removed is sheer madness.

The Airbus OEM application for FCOM/MEL is quite fine, their eQRH goes even a bit beyond in terms of HMI. The N-CL part is a properly designed app.

​​​​​​But the use on a window mounted unit is dreadful. The forward field / offside field of vision issues are thoroughly ignored.

As a consequence it feels a retrograde step on the PM side, whether or not he actually checks something. Odds tilted the wrong way.

Case study: LO VIZ taxi out. The responsibilities are
- monitor movement, eyes out
- read the challenges, head dowb
- verify the items, eyes in

The first is the absolute priority. As long as one can blend the other two together (moving head with CL in hand, in view) it can be done quickly and safely whilst maintaining a reasonable lookout.

Enter electronic C/L mounted on the side window: each of the three becomes an exclusive cognitive task. And you may even be required to press a button for each of the steps!

Don't like it. Synthetic voice would be fine, best with a voice recognition to kill the items off the list. Future please come fast.

Sailvi767
21st Dec 2018, 13:35
Our mount allows for it to be easily removed with one hand. Many Airbus guys have it on the tray table on the ground. The case props it up. Once you taxi in low vis with a EFB with own ship positioning you will NEVER want to be without it again.

fdr
25th Dec 2018, 07:08
ECL's are great. However, the occasion that we filled up with smoke in the cockpit, the checklist could not be read. The FO could not see the Pack switches above his head. They were at least able to be found by feel from the other seat. ECL's and QRH's are great, sometimes the situation may make it hard to follow them. In light of the most recent 777 electrical anomalies, a continuous concern of mine has always been the time it takes to get down to essential only power by the checklist when in a smoke or fire situation.

compressor stall
26th Dec 2018, 04:35
So if you have trouble reading the eQRH smoke procedure on an iPad with large font, Iíd have though opening the qrh to locate a paper checklist would be well nigh impossible.