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F.Nose
18th Dec 2018, 00:42
What is the latest info on the Network A320 operation in Perth? Is it operational?, Successful? Can anybody shed some light on what is going on there?

Capn Bloggs
18th Dec 2018, 05:04
Wait for it.... ;)

RU/16
18th Dec 2018, 08:03
Sits on the overnight ramp a lot......still only 2.....bit of a seagull

Rated De
18th Dec 2018, 19:38
Sits on the overnight ramp a lot......still only 2.....bit of a seagull


With Fort Fumble IR desperate to prove ample supply of pilots, elements including the Stream Lead are looking at ways to broaden the 'supply'. Nice little inducements at sign up. Yet still not many takers!

After all when Little Napoleon and Bruce Buchanan wandered around Asia, ordering 110 Aircraft for an amazing business they had to find a home for all those older aircraft Qantas own.

Sitting on static display will hopefully convince the pilots in QF that supply is indeed evaporating at the prices Qantas IR want to pay.

C152R
18th Dec 2018, 23:17
So how low is the salary for an A320 Captain?

angryrat
18th Dec 2018, 23:32
Canít fill the left seat of Jetconnect 737ís either. Struggling with suitably qualified F/Oís to make the next step and no external candidates wanting the job.

CurtainTwitcher
19th Dec 2018, 00:03
So how low is the salary for an A320 Captain?
You can figure it out from the Air Pilots Award 2010 (https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/modern_awards/award/ma000046/default.htm) (AP2010) (01 July 2018 updated rates (https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/modern_awards/pdf/MA000046.pdf)) as that is the legal minimum. There is very little effective difference between AP2010 award and Jetstar / Network / Cobham / QF Domestic conditions. They are all effectively casualised, the only real question is how many hours per annum achieved, that is the single greatest determinate of income.

Get ready to break out the spreadsheet...the key assumption is based on the "Standard Rate" Single engine UTBNI 1360 kg of $22.05 per hour and the various multiples that apply for ATPL / Turbojet etc. Suffice to say, the LHS would be circa 173K. Casual rates would be 1/800 of that figure per hour.

Icarus2001
19th Dec 2018, 01:58
There is very little effective difference between AP2010 award and Jetstar / Network / Cobham / QF Domestic conditions. I don't think so. They are all well above the Award.

I believe Network A320 is around $185K. Cobham regional just finalised their EBA and are around $175K increasing to $185 by 2020.

dreamer84
19th Dec 2018, 02:11
Are these aircraft not a case of build it and they will come? A320s are increasingly becoming the weapon of choice for big miners in the West, particularly following narrow runway provision. Most (not all) Pilbara runways are 30m wide and +1500ft elevation, and the A320 on a closed charter basis makes much commercial sense for miners, over the B737. Network clearly want in and will make good ROI on these machines if they're successful in tapping into to this market. (IMO)

The Green Goblin
19th Dec 2018, 02:26
Itís more the fact a 320 can do a flap 3 takeoff and haul a reasonable load out of a short hot, high, field.

In fact youíll probably find a 320s main limitation out of the Pilbara will be the landing weight in Perth.

Rated De
19th Dec 2018, 07:01
Are these aircraft not a case of build it and they will come? A320s are increasingly becoming the weapon of choice for big miners in the West, particularly following narrow runway provision. Most (not all) Pilbara runways are 30m wide and +1500ft elevation, and the A320 on a closed charter basis makes much commercial sense for miners, over the B737. Network clearly want in and will make good ROI on these machines if they're successful in tapping into to this market. (IMO)

What is this ROI you speak of?
Network are given the aircraft owned by Qantas cycled out of Jetstar while Jetstar take even more aircraft ordered by Little Napoleon with much fanfare in 2011.
It is more a case of hoping that a subsidiary could be found to dump the air frames.
A little payload differential never worried QF management, what drives this is IR.
The mining wind off is an interesting study. Analysts will tell you that the big uplift occurs in the construction phase. Charter companies grow rapidly supporting the build up. State governments jump in with all sorts of inducements only to find that 'mature mines' are somewhat more automated than they assumed.

With QF having split the fleet, with crew bases in WA (rather like the RAN) and pilots in negotiations the more obvious 'return' on Network is scaring the herd in contract season, hoping that pilots don't notice the growing shortage.

Transition Layer
19th Dec 2018, 12:05
Are these aircraft not a case of build it and they will come? A320s are increasingly becoming the weapon of choice for big miners in the West, particularly following narrow runway provision. Most (not all) Pilbara runways are 30m wide and +1500ft elevation, and the A320 on a closed charter basis makes much commercial sense for miners, over the B737. Network clearly want in and will make good ROI on these machines if they're successful in tapping into to this market. (IMO)
Hey Dreamer (quite apt)...
When the 320s turned up in the West, it was all about ďour customers are demanding itĒ. Well Iím yet to see a single 320 in Ginbata/Roy Hill - Gina apparently said ďthanks, but no thanks...Iíll take the reliability of the 737 insteadĒ.
Twiggy seems to only want the 320 to Solomon for the reasons you outlined above. Fair enough, but the new FMG airstrip down the road will be 2500m so makes the 320 hot/short argument redundant.
The fact theyíve shoved the 320 onto Newman, Karratha and Broome RPT instead of contract work tends to suggest the customers werenít demanding it all.
More lies from QF Group management

GoldCoastTobacconist
19th Dec 2018, 23:03
Goblin a quick run of the figures

Newman 40C 5 Tail 1013
RWY 05 A320 69 300kg B737 66357kg
RWY 23 A320 68 200kg B737 65 991kg

Given the landing weights of both A320 66 000kg and B737 66 360kg the additional thrust of the V2500 engine (27000lbs) vs CFM56 (26000lbs) compared to the actual baggage carried , is the airbus actually needed?.

What happened to the double daily Singapore to offset these A320s?.

Blitzkrieger
19th Dec 2018, 23:53
Didnít QF acquire network to keep the other jet mob on their best behaviour?

Scooter Rassmussin
20th Dec 2018, 00:52
Network is the thirdMajor Airline in Australia,
if youre looking. at coming home from OS do it now and beat the rush , with the forecast growth in population of Australia it will be huge,
and the only way to sort qf mainline training woes

Rated De
20th Dec 2018, 01:29
Network is the thirdMajor Airline in Australia,
if youre looking. at coming home from OS do it now and beat the rush , with the forecast growth in population of Australia it will be huge,
and the only way to sort qf mainline training woes

Qantas IR with their fingers crossed wholly endorse this message.

dreamer84
20th Dec 2018, 01:52
Hey Dreamer (quite apt)...
When the 320s turned up in the West, it was all about ďour customers are demanding itĒ. Well Iím yet to see a single 320 in Ginbata/Roy Hill - Gina apparently said ďthanks, but no thanks...Iíll take the reliability of the 737 insteadĒ.
Twiggy seems to only want the 320 to Solomon for the reasons you outlined above. Fair enough, but the new FMG airstrip down the road will be 2500m so makes the 320 hot/short argument redundant.
The fact theyíve shoved the 320 onto Newman, Karratha and Broome RPT instead of contract work tends to suggest the customers werenít demanding it all.
More lies from QF Group management
What would your proposition be? Bid for work prior to implementing the type, or maybe build the capability pre tender? From where I sit it would make good sense to integrate a new type well before new opportunities become available? And what new FMG airport are you referring to out of interest - additional to the existing other 2 down the road? And I assume you're aware of a few other miners in the region other than Roy Hill and FMG?
Not too many aerodrome operators (mining companies) are going to invest in an additional 500m of pavement and related infrastructure beyond their existing 2000m or so when they don't have to. Almost all recent aerodrome upgrades in the vicinity involve nil extra length with some additional PCN. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. But maybe I'm only dreaming ;)

-41
20th Dec 2018, 02:22
Shouldn't this thread be moved to the GA & Questions forum :)

maggot
20th Dec 2018, 02:44
Qantas IR with their fingers crossed wholly endorse this message.

This.

Don't be naive, the only training woes at mainline was due to a delayed start-up. We can pontificate why somewhere else.

Icarus2001
20th Dec 2018, 03:16
Network is the third Major Airline in Australia,] Really?

Surely they are a contract charter company? They don't sell tickets to the public do they? So where do you see their size compared to Alliance or Cobham?

Have you heard of these guys...?

http://www.rex.com.au/

Capn Bloggs
20th Dec 2018, 05:18
Newman 40C 5 Tail 1013
RWY 05 A320 69 300kg B737 66357kg
RWY 23 A320 68 200kg B737 65 991kg
Out of interest, what are the empty weights of these?

Swanrider
20th Dec 2018, 06:40
Icarus2001 - No they are not and yes they do.
Network have been a QF salaried & owned subsidiary since 2011.
All tickets except closed mining charters are sold on the QF website and link into the greater QF domestic & International flight schedules. Only a small portion of their flights now depart out of the Network Terminal.
Alliance & Cobham? Both privately owned separate entities that are subcontracted to the "brand" and doing very well at it still, I guess you'd say. Cobham's B717's though are QF property.

airdualbleedfault
20th Dec 2018, 06:56
Bloggs, A320 43900 give or take

Icarus2001
20th Dec 2018, 07:25
Icarus2001 - No they are not and yes they do.
Network have been a QF salaried & owned subsidiary since 2011. Network are a contract charter company owned by QF. The trick is that their only client is Qantas. Network do not sell tickets, QF do.

https://www.networkaviation.com.au/

Guess what it says on their website?:

we are Western Australia’s premier Aircraft Charter Company for FIFO Air Charters and Private Air Charters.

kimbobimbo
20th Dec 2018, 11:42
Icarus, by your logic eastern and sunstate are contract charter too then right?

When i I fly a charter I tick the non scheduled box during flight planning... a very rare thing now a days.
When I fly RPT I tick the scheduled box, which is most flights these days.

The only people going to networks website are clients interested in chartering an aircraft, and probably pilots looking for work but the site hasnít changed in years! Didnít you know weíre in austerity!

Transition Layer
20th Dec 2018, 12:43
What would your proposition be? Bid for work prior to implementing the type, or maybe build the capability pre tender? From where I sit it would make good sense to integrate a new type well before new opportunities become available? And what new FMG airport are you referring to out of interest - additional to the existing other 2 down the road? And I assume you're aware of a few other miners in the region other than Roy Hill and FMG?
Not too many aerodrome operators (mining companies) are going to invest in an additional 500m of pavement and related infrastructure beyond their existing 2000m or so when they don't have to. Almost all recent aerodrome upgrades in the vicinity involve nil extra length with some additional PCN. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. But maybe I'm only dreaming ;)

The spin from the company to Mainline Pilots was that the resource companies were “demanding” the 320 for the contract work. A whopping extra 6 seats over a B738. That demand hasn’t really eventuated yet and the RPT stuff has been the backbone of the A320 operation from what I can see. The further spin about lowering Broome airfares for locals was proof that the A320 wasn’t as well received in the Pilbara as they’d hoped and had to find somewhere to send the jets. The B738 is an incredibly reliable machine and the general feeling is that the Big 3 (FMG/Rio/BHP) have long memories from the sh1t heap 320 that Skywest used to run around up there breaking down all the time. Roy Hill likewise - apparently they don’t want anything to do with Network because of the unreliability of the F100s. Gina isn’t one of the richest women in the world by accident.

The new FMG strip is not common knowledge yet but will service the Eliwana operation and will be 2500m according to the guys at Solomon. Here’s some reading for you - https://thewest.com.au/business/mining/fmg-green-lights-17b-eliwana-with-500-jobs-to-come-ng-b88848638z

Keep dreaming but be careful it’s not a wet one. Shiny jet syndrome will wear off soon and you’ll wake up with sticky sheets and realise you’re the lowest paid 320 pilots getting around during the time of a shortage :rolleyes:

Street garbage
20th Dec 2018, 21:22
Network is the thirdMajor Airline in Australia,
if youre looking. at coming home from OS do it now and beat the rush , with the forecast growth in population of Australia it will be huge,
and the only way to sort qf mainline training woes
For all the kiddies out there, this is what injecting Koolaid does to you.
Third major airline? Who would have thought QF, VOZ and Jstar wouldn't have made the podium.
Population Growth..with both parties advocating major changes to immigration, wrong on that one too..
Mainline training-with another 5000hrs of flying on the 737 planned from February onwards, they have stabilised too..
As for beating the rush to join Network...the very fact you have to post such dribble on here says it all. Another HR/IR troll.

F.Nose
20th Dec 2018, 23:17
So which routes are the 320s currently flying?

Excuse my ignorance, not fishing for anything here, just generally interested.

ebt
21st Dec 2018, 01:46
Broome, Newman, Solomon, Port Hedland, Karratha and Broome. Broome is mostly on the weekends, where they are using it in place of a 717 on Friday, Saturday and Sunday services to appease the state government's desire for cheaper fares.

kimbobimbo
21st Dec 2018, 02:45
Transition Layer, thereís no dreams at all and certainly no shiny jet syndrome! Network has been around longer than Jetstar and has gone through multiple new types in that time, itís not a new company!

To be clear we didnít accept anything! We had it jammed down our throats from a higher power, those that are on it made a choice, which avoided the company going down the DEC path again. And make no mistake they would have if the need arose.

We already know the 320 drivers are probably the worse paid in the land, those that are on it spent time at jq training and have a pretty good understanding of differences. The next EBA will hopefully sort this out but who knows?

Transition Layer
21st Dec 2018, 05:02
Transition Layer, thereís no dreams at all and certainly no shiny jet syndrome! Network has been around longer than Jetstar and has gone through multiple new types in that time, itís not a new company!

To be clear we didnít accept anything! We had it jammed down our throats from a higher power, those that are on it made a choice, which avoided the company going down the DEC path again. And make no mistake they would have if the need arose.

We already know the 320 drivers are probably the worse paid in the land, those that are on it spent time at jq training and have a pretty good understanding of differences. The next EBA will hopefully sort this out but who knows?
kimbobimbo,
My shiny jet comments were directed at dreamer, who seems very excited by the whole 320 operation and somewhat oblivious to the bigger forces at play (IR tactics etc).

Iíve always found your comments in the past regarding Network to be very level headed and quite rational, the comment about JQ notwithstanding. Network was just a turboprop and charter operation until jets arrived in 2008 and only really grew when QF took over in 2011. JQ started in 2004, having been formed from the ashes of Impulse which was around many years earlier.

As for the next EBA, thereís no doubt JQ pay should be the starting point for Network. But we know that wonít happen without a fight!

kimbobimbo
21st Dec 2018, 05:12
My comments are usually level headed... except when they move the thread! Then I loose it haha!

Rated De
21st Dec 2018, 06:49
Network was not an economic acquisition, it was industrial.
A charter operator sitting in the right place when the mining build out accelerated. As previously stated it is the build up phase where the big movements of people occur, sourcing bigger equipment the order of the day.
That Qantas purchased it as the build up wound off is indicative of their intent: Another 'rainy day purchase'

That Qantas have pilots based in WA with open contracts is no secret, that Network cannot source sufficient crew IR hope remains secret, The only leverage they have is this perennial threat of a subsidiary replacing QF tail services. That strategy relied upon unlimited supply of pilots. Presently, the team including the 'Stream Lead' (ex AIPA President) is tasked with building narrative to broaden the recruitment of foreign pilots.

Lambswool
22nd Dec 2018, 21:05
Bloggs,
B737 is thereabouts - 42900kg

unobtanium
22nd Dec 2018, 22:54
Network Aviation A320's are an experiement, to condition the travelling public to seeing an A320 with a red tail. Many 737 routes have already been replaced with 717's (eg BNE-ADL is 3x717 1x737 now), and chances are one day they will be replaced with 320's, and slowly the whole domestic fleet will be 320s operated and maintained by contract companies, contract pilots and contract hosties wearing the QF uniform. High 5s and bonuses all round at HQ.

virgindriver
23rd Dec 2018, 01:22
Network Aviation A320's are an experiement, to condition the travelling public to seeing an A320 with a red tail. Many 737 routes have already been replaced with 717's (eg BNE-ADL is 3x717 1x737 now), and chances are one day they will be replaced with 320's, and slowly the whole domestic fleet will be 320s operated and maintained by contract companies, contract pilots and contract hosties wearing the QF uniform. High 5s and bonuses all round at HQ.

Pretty obvious this is Alanís end game.

wheels_down
23rd Dec 2018, 02:06
40 birds were slated for Hong Kong and some ĎPremium Airlineí.

Vietnam and Singapore donít want them, in fact Vietnam has been sourcing their own new aircraft.

Only half of JQs current fleet needs to be replaced by mid 2020s.

A QF 737 to 320 Fleet conversion sounds logical. There is no other place for all these excess Airbus aircraft.

Transition Layer
23rd Dec 2018, 02:44
And no sign whatsoever of a 737 replacement order.

Chocks Away
23rd Dec 2018, 03:02
So why can't the respective pilot groups there in Oz get together, help raise all Terms & C's in the current shortage of pilots, to ensure another Nepolion white-anting plan does wreak havoc?

wheels_down
23rd Dec 2018, 03:21
And no sign whatsoever of a 737 replacement order.
Boeing last earnings call stated they have backlog until mid next decade.

Virgin started negotiating 737 Max orders back in 2011 and finalised orders the following year. The first one hits the production line in the next half.

Its now at the point where Virgin will have its full 40 fleet of MAXs delivered before QF even gets a single one.

Icarus2001
23rd Dec 2018, 03:27
Rated De, I agree with the thrust of your posts, however...

That Qantas purchased it as the build up wound off is indicative of their intent: Another 'rainy day purchase' If as quoted above QF purchased Network in 2011 (I cannot remember the year) then their timing was definitely ahead of the major boom years. Not behind them. The "boom" years were 2010 to 2015 were they not?

Transition Layer
23rd Dec 2018, 03:57
Boeing last earnings call stated they have backlog until mid next decade.

Virgin started negotiating 737 Max orders back in 2011 and finalised orders the following year. The first one hits the production line in the next half.

Its now at the point where Virgin will have its full 40 fleet of MAXs delivered before QF even gets a single one.

Unfortunately, I envisage the QF Domestic fleet in late 2020s to be made up of 40-50 narrowbody 320s operated by Network and probably another 40 Mainline 797s for Transcon, SYD/MEL/BNE Triangle, The Tasman and thinner Asian routes.

crosscutter
23rd Dec 2018, 04:38
Unfortunately, I envisage the QF Domestic fleet in late 2020s to be made up of 40-50 narrowbody 320s operated by Network

That would involve a transfer of business which is simply not possible under current legislation. If it was legal it would have been done long ago. Itís that attitude to company threats (remember sign this 787 deal or else) which spread fear and uncertainty. The domestic situation is totally different. This is a transfer of business situation and having this attitude is counterproductive from both the companyís and pilots point of view.

Transition Layer
23rd Dec 2018, 04:43
That would involve a transfer of business which is simply not possible under current legislation. If it was legal it would have been done long ago. Itís that attitude to company threats which spread fear and uncertainty. This is counterproductive from both the companyís and pilots point of view.

Iím not one for scaremongering and like many others I have a lot to lose if that scenario plays out, but itís already happening, as pointed out in an earlier post. 717s in 2 class configuration on previous mainline routes. The only difference is the ďLinkĒ in the name.

crosscutter
23rd Dec 2018, 04:55
I understand the reference. I see the reality. However, under the legislation (Iím sure others will know it better than me) existing QF red tail Mainline domestic flying must be maintained reasonably should red tail subsidiary flying increase. For example, say the 737s were needed to do more trans continental flying then the 717s could be used on any route QF like as long as the 737s did the hours. If the 737s hours were cut back (Mainline jobs) then it is illegal for any red tail to fill the void.

Under current legislation what you fear is illegal and what you see is company growth which Mainline does not do. The legal transfer of business has already occurred and that is Jetstar.

Rated De
23rd Dec 2018, 04:56
Rated De, I agree with the thrust of your posts, however...

If as quoted above QF purchased Network in 2011 (I cannot remember the year) then their timing was definitely ahead of the major boom years. Not behind them. The "boom" years were 2010 to 2015 were they not?

For clarity, the boom 'receipt years' in terms of Iron Ore price etc were according to Australian government data, as you suggest, however by that stage, which is the point of the post, was that the 'build up' phase was very much already in play. The expansion of Network and other charter operators was on the back of the increase in output which commenced most noticeably around 2005. The higher prices for the ore bodies, gas and other mine output accelerated following the 'post GFC' period, but the impact was evident in RBA data from 2005.

This brings me to the surge in mining investment that is currently under way. This is again very broad based across a range of resources, but the core part centres on the large expansion in the iron ore, coal and gas industries. It has been, to a large degree, driven by demand for resources by emerging economies, with China being the most significant. Judged by the pattern in mining investment and commodity prices, the start of this boom can be dated from around 2005. By 2007 and early 2008, it was severely testing the productive capacity and flexibility of the economy. That all changed in the second half of 2008, as the effects of the mining boom were offset by the impact of the global financial crisis. However, now that this has passed, the underlying dynamics of the resource boom are starting to re-appear. -Deputy Governor Ric Battelino February 2010. Our italics

Network Aviation serves two purposes:

1. Latest subsidiary to scare pilots, particularly those Perth based employed by Qantas mainline
2. A home for the ex JQ A320, which Little Napoleon and Bruce Buchanan decided in 2011 needed replacing, well before their economic life cycle.

The economics don't matter, the intention is to convince pilots that there is ample supply at prices Qantas IR are used to paying.
That the aircraft lay dormant and cost a lot on static display, is all part of the cost to be borne to win the next battle in reductions in pilot terms and conditions.

It is a dated approach and ignores the building demographic shortages, but to Qantas IR it is a battle they will fight irrespective of the true cost in other people's money.

George Glass
23rd Dec 2018, 05:23
Lots of conspiracy theories flying around but the simple explanation is that mining companies dont want the business class configuration of mainline B737s. Never have. They put up with it when capacity was tight and iron ore was $100 a tonne. Nor do they like being second priority when there is network disruption. It has always been thus in mining and oil. The previous 10 years were an aberration.

Check_Thrust
23rd Dec 2018, 05:30
crosscutter:
That would involve a transfer of business which is simply not possible under current legislation.

I do not doubt what you say is true, however are you or anyone else able to point me to the legislation for my own education on the topic? Thanks in advance.

Rated De
23rd Dec 2018, 05:43
Broome, Newman, Solomon, Port Hedland, Karratha and Broome. Broome is mostly on the weekends, where they are using it in place of a 717 on Friday, Saturday and Sunday services to appease the state government's desire for cheaper fares.

And a check of Qantas historical route schedule would show these routes largely once flown by 737 on Qantas terms and conditions.

Lots of conspiracy theories flying around but the simple explanation is that mining companies dont want the business class configuration of mainline B737s. Never have. They put up with it when capacity was tight and iron ore was $100 a tonne. Nor do they like being second priority when there is network disruption. It has always been thus in mining and oil. The previous 10 years were an aberration.

Not really a conspiracy there George. Given the state of play in world commodities it is unlikely a 'boom' in mine charter is on the cards. Those ports referenced by other posters carried a mix of private FIFO workers and general RPT traffic load.

Network are supposed, according to corporate sources, absorb multiple JQ aircraft that as a result of a botched 'megaphone diplomacy' order by Little Napoleon in 2011 see another 100 odd aircraft destined for JQ.

Is immaterial whether it works economically, industrially is the focus, is anyone really surprised when time after time the same play book rolls out?

crosscutter
23rd Dec 2018, 05:55
I do not doubt what you say is true, however are you or anyone else able to point me to the legislation for my own education on the topic? Thanks in advance.

It is enshrined as a guiding principle in the Fair Work Act with respect to EBAís.

And to quote the CEO....ĒUnder the Fair Work Act, companies are prevented from taking work away (e.g. reducing total flying hours) from a particular group and giving it to another group in order to circumvent an EBA.Ē

George Glass
23rd Dec 2018, 07:26
RD, During the last boom traffic to Karratha Port Hedland etc. was almost all FIFO. Demand for business class was zero. Broome has always struggled. There is a small market for business class during the east coast winter but its small. West coasters prefer Bali. Miners returning to purpose designed chart carriers is reversion to the norm of the previous 30 years, not a conspiracy.

Icarus2001
23rd Dec 2018, 07:32
West coasters prefer Bali. A destination where Australian carriers appear to have raised the white flag.

longjohn
23rd Dec 2018, 11:14
A destination where Australian carriers appear to have raised the white flag.

huh?

JQ/ QF and Virgin all operate to Bali. JQ operating out of every major city ie 3 x daily from Perth alone.

what do you mean Icarus?

Icarus2001
24th Dec 2018, 07:15
Have a look at what is available from Australia to Bali with Australian carriers. Then have a look at what is available from foreign carriers.

Part of a wider malaise. Last year there were over 815,000 Australian visitors to Thailand. Now have a look at Australian airlines offering direct flights to Thailand.

Malaysia, Japan...

bolthead
25th Dec 2018, 02:17
What % of flights to Bali are operated by JQ Aussie compared to JQ Asia?

wheels_down
25th Dec 2018, 11:57
All flights are AU metal. Tech crew are Australian based however cabin crew are not.

9V birds only fly to Darwin from Singapore.

Part of a wider malaise. Last year there were over 815,000 Australian visitors to Thailand. Now have a look at Australian airlines offering direct flights to Thailand.

Malaysia, Japan...
JQ/QF do fly direct Thailand and have considerable direct flights to Japan so I still donít get your point here.

Japan and Nippon have been missing in action until only recently

AirAsia pulled its A330s off Bali to Sydney and Melbourne. And they have considerable feed on the other end.

Your point is what exactly?

airdualbleedfault
1st Jan 2019, 01:18
And a check of Qantas historical route schedule would show these routes largely once flown by 737 on Qantas terms and conditions.
Actually Rated de I think you will find history shows that those intra WA routes were operated by National Jet/Qantaslink from 1995 in the 146 and it was a long time before any 737 operated those routes

Icarus2001
1st Jan 2019, 02:44
JQ/QF do fly direct Thailand and have considerable direct flights to Japan so I still don’t get your point here. Indeed. Have a good look at which flights are operated by Jetstar then at QF, finally look at how many are codeshare on another carrier.

Now have a look at Virgin flights from Sydney or Melbourne. The West coast is worse. The only direct flight from Perth to Bangkok is Thai Airways. QF and VA do not bother. The same with KL, no service from our flag carrier and their duopoly partner. They leave it to Malaysia, Air Asia and Malindo.

Like I said, they raised the white flag.

Transition Layer
1st Jan 2019, 02:45
Actually Rated de I think you will find history shows that those intra WA routes were operated by National Jet/Qantaslink from 1995 in the 146 and it was a long time before any 737 operated those routes

Itís called growth, modernisation and pax comfort, none of which happens when an F100 takes over a route from a B737.

Its also the same reason B707s donít fly across the Pacific with 3 stops to LA anymore :rolleyes:

Icarus2001
1st Jan 2019, 02:52
none of which happens when an F100 takes over a route from a B737. Hahaha even Uber have standards. The vehicle must be under ten years old.

https://www.uber.com/en-AU/drive/perth/vehicle-requirements/

airdualbleedfault
5th Jan 2019, 11:50
Nice TL, completely off the topic of my answer to Rated de . The NJS 146s were flying those routes for 10 years before a single 737 set tyres on WA regional soil so once again for the cheap seats, no, history does not show those routes were operated by the 737

Transition Layer
7th Jan 2019, 09:24
Nice TL, completely off the topic of my answer to Rated de . The NJS 146s were flying those routes for 10 years before a single 737 set tyres on WA regional soil so once again for the cheap seats, no, history does not show those routes were operated by the 737


6 or 7 years ago, Qantas operated up to 10 flights a day PER-KTA with 737s. Newman peaked at 7 I think. The demand from the boom supported it, and it would have taken a sh1tload of NJS 146s or 717s to move those pax numbers. We know what has happened since with the acquisition of Network and their F100 fleet expansion which lead to the replacement of a huge number of mainline services, who in turn had replaced NJS/Airlink or whatever it was called at the time.

So historically Iím also correct arenít I?

Chad Gates
7th Jan 2019, 09:34
I flew into Karatha, Broome and Kalgoorlie as a 737 FO so that is at least pre 2004.

TBM-Legend
7th Jan 2019, 23:26
I see a case for PPRuNe Airlines staffed and funded by the experts...