BAF acquisition of British Airways Viscount 800s.

[Mooncrest]

Afternoon all. The Viscount remains my favourite aeroplane after hundreds of years and I have seen the BAF and BA examples (among others) pass through various airports. Does anyone have any information or stories as to how and why BAF came to acquire the aircraft ? Did they take all of them, reject a few, buy all the spares ? Did any BA pilots move over to BAF ? And so on. As I recall, until BAF became a Viscount operator, it was a comparatively small player with a handful of Heralds. So it must have been quite an undertaking.

Thank you.

[WHBM]

Strangely, I remember them arriving. Nothing to do with aviation but we had an office in Southend I needed to visit, who always used the Airport Hotel, alongside the north side of the runway at the 05 end. Would have been spring 1981, when the BA fleet was purchased, that a new one would arrive from Cardiff in the late afternoons while I was staying there. It's a bit difficult to miss a taxying Viscount when you are within half a mile of it. They got about a dozen then, and a further half-dozen came in 1984, I believe having stood at the BA base at Cardiff for a few years.

BAF at the time had quite a few overnight freight runs from Southend to Europe, and the Viscounts very quickly mixed in with the Heralds for the several about 0100 departures, which of course woke us all up as each in turn spooled up for departure. They always seem to have been on easterlies.

BAF wasn't just a "handful" of Heralds, they had quite a substantial fleet (I see they had 15 in 1981 when the Viscounts came) but despite being a bit newer than the replacing Viscounts their manufacturer had gone out of business and they would be difficult to support. The Heralds had been acquired the same way, buying up blocks of a fleet being retired; they bought up the whole Malaysian Air Force fleet of about 9 in 1977. They probably found their leasing market, which is what much of their fleet did, was looking for something more of the Viscount size. They got some good longer term contracts, for overnight package runs and also from oil company support, particularly in North Africa. As usual in the era they had contracts outstationed in Aberdeen. They had not long got out of the cross-channel car operation, which was their origin; in 1981 there was still the last Carvair lying derelict at Southend in the weeds just outside my hotel room window.

BAF had a small group of scheduled services from Southend to nearby European points which they had let go of, to BIA, in 1979, but that was really just the commercial side as BAF continued to provide the aircraft, BIA did not bring in their own fleet.

Subsequently a onetime girlfriend (still long ago) had a father who had once been a Herald pilot with them for a few years; sounded a pretty straightforward day job as she said in the family BAF meant "Back At Five", likely a comparison to a previous position.

There's a detailed article about BAF here

https://www.southendtimeline.com/britishairferries.htm

[lotus1]

I remember seeing them doing the channel island flights from manston around 84 also beleive from Southampton there was a big promotion get the plane then catch the train from Southampton Eastleigh to Waterloo they said you could do this in a time of under 3hrs

[Mooncrest]

I remember the first time one of the BAF Viscounts turned up at Leeds Bradford in 1982. It came on the radar frequency using the 'Victor Fox' callsign which I didn't recognise at the time. When it landed and taxied on to stand it never occurred to me that it was a former BA machine. It was painted all white apart from the blue lower fuselage so probably not long out of BA service. Not even any BAF lettering.

[DH106]

I remember the first time one of the BAF Viscounts turned up at Leeds Bradford in 1982. It came on the radar frequency using the 'Victor Fox' callsign which I didn't recognise at the time. When it landed and taxied on to stand it never occurred to me that it was a former BA machine. It was painted all white apart from the blue lower fuselage so probably not long out of BA service. Not even any BAF lettering.

So... the callsign 'VF' obviously did represent the aircraft reg. then, if the aircraft was ex. BA?

[treadigraph]

If I recall, VF was BAF's two letter callsign prefix?

[WHBM]

Victor Foxtrot came from their VF flight number prefix, which in turn, of course, came from Vehicle Ferry.

The livery dewcribed was how they were delivered from BA storage at Cardiff, where they had been "de-decaled". If I recall correctly BAF was one of those companies who worked through significantly different and sometimes garish company standard liveries quite quickly. Always seems a bit strange for companies who specialise in wet leasing for others to have strikingly different colour schemes of their own rather than something plain and neutral.

[Mooncrest]

I'm not sure I ever saw any of the Viscounts with plain BAF lettering, swirling bands around the fuselage or the short-lived Jersey Air Ferries, Aqua Avia or Polar paint jobs. By the mid 1980s the aircraft more or less all wore the lower case British air ferries look. Makes me wonder if the previous liveries from BEA, BKS, Northeast et al were still lurking underneath.

BAF should have done quite nicely out of the Channel Island flights - I think they were for Lewis's Travel. Did their Viscounts have any other regular passenger routes ?

[Jerbourg]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1684x715/img_20160710_0013_181c2134ed5b4a39796ca6197e1f75bde6d3b256.j pg
I remember seeing them doing the channel island flights from manston around 84 also beleive from Southampton there was a big promotion get the plane then catch the train from Southampton Eastleigh to Waterloo they said you could do this in a time of under 3hrs

The GCI-SOU flights were op subsiduary Guernsey Airlines, however I'm not sure if this was the case with the JER-SOU route which may have actually been a BAF route.

Here's a few pics depicting various BAF/Guernsey Airlines schemes.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1677x726/guernsey_airlines_a3ee031bf33daef7207dbe2c705fc1209568421e.j pg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1384x1028/g_aoyn_71a58ba68b58a5f5d6b7453bf275fea56a6e233e.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1676x1176/g_apim_35870e243c8e9292507b30d92225811d40ec8080.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1644x776/g_aoyg_bad23dd6a6992610eac27342380ed4b0fb5aa859.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1708x1180/g_aohm_6ea4dc8313d7171e75b7c1281d6fe9fdad431bed.jpg

[Mooncrest]

Lovely pictures, Jerbourg. Thank you. I never knew that two of the fleet concurrently wore Guernsey Airlines colours. This is one airline that seldom visited Leeds Bradford, save the odd charter or fuel stop. BAF and GAL frequented just about every British airport during the 1980s but LBA only ever saw BAF, albeit up to four times in a weekend during summer, on the Jersey run.

BTW, is that a HF aerial I can see on AOYN ?

[GAXLN]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1316/0437b2cd_fba8_46a4_bd06_84aaa6965ff7_8a07d83aa169474cf0477cb 99549735417207b23.jpeg

YM after it’s last flight for BA

A few photographs from my library. Have to agree with the comments regarding the Viscount. A fine British Aircraft and those Dart engines were always very recognisable.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1361/6d819fc6_37d7_44d5_bf00_03792a12bf62_b1d8d9064f23a6c774bdd29 ff962575c9dd60dce.jpeg

Arrival of “YM” at GLA after final BA Viscount service BA5721 LSI-KOI-INV-GLA. I recall a low pass by the Old Man Of Hoy in the Orkneys.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1299/0707b0a9_f450_47d5_a14c_26cda2feafc9_0563f93358923ee423429cc e6d70657c838e100b.jpeg

An ex-BMA machine taxiing in at Cardiff
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1299/e22c6bc6_8e5d_4644_91fb_110f076ab415_beaefd5ee50f03458c80459 0560b9c3e5d2e8842.jpeg

Awaiting the after BA life
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/e77b1d87_a367_4687_8430_9b0c22c4e5d4_974e0d711d90e64f5bd8cee cb336ffe02a3ea461.jpeg

Line up of withdrawn Viscounts at Cardiff
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1351/48619442_ec96_43dc_9e99_4439ea928e60_b96ba5ad41566228713f906 83c0590a86e61b5fa.jpeg

Final approach 8th May 1982 into Glasgow

[Mooncrest]

More nice photos. The picture of the ex-BMA aircraft reminds me that BAF/BWA made it their business to acquire every serviceable Viscount available, rather like Dan-Air with the Comets.

BA dropped the LBA-LHR route in April 1980, probably about the same time as they began the withdrawal of the Viscount fleet. One wonders if they'd have hung on to the route if the Viscount's days weren't numbered.

[lotus1]

Lovely pictures my only flight in a viscount was on a Euroair viscount from gatwick to Holland for the 85 Dutch GP it was chartered by page and moy fantastic views from the Windows

[dixi188]

HF wire antenna visible on several Viscounts from feed through fitting above fwd. door to top of fin.
I remember installing a Sun-Air 10 channel HF in a SOAF Viscount in 1976.

[WHBM]

As well as their own colours, BAF did a range of longer term leases, throughout the 1980s, which led to some Viscounts getting repainted in Virgin Atlantic and British Caledonian schemes, among others, for short feeder operations from Gatwick into Europe.

Come 1993 and the business changed its name to British World, and that was a whole new colour scheme yet again, a bit more stylish, looked like it had been done by a design house rather than knocked up by the paint shop foreman.

[Krakatoa]

According to Charles Woodley s History of British European Airways most of the Viscount s were sold to Cambrian and B.K.S. before passing to BAF. Three were sold to Mandala Airways, a Far East company and one GAOYJ, was leased to Cyprus Airways eventually returning to British Airways.

[WHBM]

According to Charles Woodley s History of British European Airways most of the Viscount s were sold to Cambrian and B.K.S. before passing to BAF..
That was a while before. Both Cambrian and BKS (actually Northeast in later years) were long time owned by BEA, then BA, and in the BA rebranding these operations were taken back into the main fleet again.

[Mooncrest]

I remember the British Caledonian-branded Viscount. She looked particularly smart.

On YouTube, there are some videos of a BAF Viscount on a training jolly at Southend in about 1993. Looks and sounds great.

[Mooncrest]

This is a little off topic, but would it be fair to say that Northeast was essentially BEA in all but name from 1970 to 1976 ? Just a thought. I can't speak for Cambrian as I'm not that familiar with their operations.

Apparently, when BKS was using the Viscounts on the LBA-LHR route in the 1960s, the midday rotation was operated by a BEA Viscount. This is before my time but I don't remember this during the Northeast days.

[WHBM]

BKS and Cambrian got rolled together into an intermediate holding company, British Aviation Services, which BEA and then BA owned. BKS was named after its founders, Barnby, Keegan and Stevens, and after finally relinquishing ownership Keegan made issues and the company was renamed as Northeast, their general territory, although their initial base had been Southend. BAS didn't do a lot but did devise a common livery style, using yellow for Northeast and Orange for Cambrian, over a grey cheatline.

I think the crews were on different terms which accounted for them remaining independent entities. It was common to exchange aircraft among each other, and have BAS aircraft operating for BEA. One of the Cambrian One-Elevens was based in Berlin for about a year doing BEA routes.

[Mooncrest]

Thank you WHBM - difficult to disagree with your summary of the BAS/BEA relationship. More digression but I understand Northeast also provided a Trident for the LHR-ABZ route at one point and operated a few European flights from Heathrow, Klagenfurt and Biarritz IIRC. One wonders if these were BEA routes contracted to their 'child' or Northeast's own ??

I have it on good authority that a Cambrian aircraft - a 1-11, I think - only visited LBA once, on a football charter. However, I have also heard that the Cambrian Viscounts also underwent maintenance at Northeast's LBA hangar, as well as at Cardiff. Who knows for sure ? Forty-plus years ago !

It would be interesting to know if any Viscount pilots remained with the aircraft from Cambrian/Northeast, through to BA and onward to BAF/BWA. I can imagine there might have been significant redundancies once the fleet was parked at Cardiff as I don't think they were replaced immediately. This time also coincided with BA withdrawing from several domestic routes.

[IcePack]

My memory of names is bit thin, but yes quite a few ex BA pilots came across to BAF. Most were aged 55 so had taken redundancy/retirement from BA. BAF had become an ad-hoc charter leasing company & did their own holiday flights. Hence some went off to Libya where HF was a requirement. BAF also did the Shell contract Aberdeen to Sumburgh for quite a few years. Rwy 33 with a slight tail wind on base leg was kind of fun.

[southender]

For anyone who has access to Propliner magazine, the activities of BAF and their Viscounts and Heralds are recorded in some detail in their ‘Independents’ section.

[tubby linton]

The story of how Cambrian and BKS came under BEA control is told in A history of Cambrian Airways by TG Staddon. It also details CS Viscount operations.

[old,not bold]

The OP asked "why did BAF buy the Viscounts?"

Good question; maybe Mike Keegan had his eyes on them before the purchase suddenly became a matter on necessity, maybe not.

At the time (late '79, early '80) BAF had an ACMI-type contract to operate 4 Heralds in Algeria, They were providing all internal commercial services for Air Algerie, the Air Force having decided to stop doing that.

The contract stipulated that BAF would operate a schedule provided by AA, and supply all the required crews, maintenance staff, other support staff, parts, etc etc. AA paid for all fuel uplifts and landing fees, and provided space in the open at Algiers, later at Ghardaia, for maintenance. They also supplied cabin staff, whom BAF had to train to their operations manual requirements.

The contract was rather onerous, perhaps because it was in French. AA paid per sector flown. If a flight was cancelled by them they paid a cancellation charge. But if BAF had to cancel for any reason whatsoever, they paid nothing. So if there was not a good load, the cabin staff would fail to appear and BAF had to cancel the flight. Simple, eh? There were lots of other contractual problems as well.

But the Herald's performance at hot 'n high airfields was the main problem. On flights from Tamanrasset in the deep South, which was (AFAIR) 6,000 ft ASL, the uplift was occasionally restricted to 3 or 4 passengers and baggage.

So the Algerians eventually said they would terminate unless BAF found a better aircraft. A meeting took place at HQ in Southend of Mike K, Jeremy K , the person in charge in Algerie (flown back for the purpose) and the Ops Manager. There was no discussion; Mike said he understood the problem, had a solution, and the meeting would reconvene in the evening. And off he went, and about 10 minutes later his private twin (Cessna 310? I forget) took off, with only him on board.

When the meeting reconvened he was already back. He announced that he had been to Heathrow, called in a favour from an old friend he had helped in the past, and had bought the entire BA Viscount fleet, then parked at Cardiff, lock, stock and barrel. The price was astonishingly low, and was for the airframes and engines as they stood. There was a separate agreement that BA would retain and store all the spares, including several engines. in their inventory at that time, so that BAF could collect what was needed but only when needed, and pay the original cost price at the time of collection. It's a pity that Mike K isn't around to negotiate Brexit. The flyable airframes would be brought by BA up to ferry capability one by one, and collected by BAF one by one to, be flown to SEN. "What about the wingspars" was the immediate question, but he already had that worked out; from the whole fleet he would cannibalise at least 5 aircraft with reasonable spar lives remaining.

The first two aircraft went to Libya; the financial lure was irrestistable, in that the monthly rent just about matched the aircraft's purchase cost, and the refurb costs were about the same. I don't know what happened re Algeria, I had quit by then.

Later ones went on the market asap for tour operator charters. Palma, in particular, flight planning to Nice and then diverting to Palma, so as not to lose any seats. (Those from the old school of aviation will understand that. The FOI was strangely blind.)

There's an awful lot more to it than that,of course, but that's the bones of the reply to the question "Why did BAF buy Viscounts?".

As a postscript; when the first aircraft was collected, Mike was there, operating as co-pilot. The story goes (ie this is hearsay) that the Chief Engineer was checking the documentation very carefully, and suddenly said "Hang on, the radio serials are not the ones in the inventory". "Shut yer f*****g mouth" said Mike, who had spotted that the radios looked new, modern, even. (He tended to talk that way.) On the flight back he guessed that the programme of changeover to modern radios was in progress, the Viscounts were in the programme, and no-one had told maintenance not to bother. If this really happened, the value of the new radios would have been close to the price of the complete airframe..

[lotus1]

My brother beleives it may have been around late 81 while down at ramsgate harbour a viscount was doing circuits it later turned out to be a Baf viscount out of Southend was this a regular route I know virgin was doing this circuit with there 340 but had to stop using manston due to under carriage problems when taxing at manston

[hector]

At the time of BAF’s acquisition of the BA Viscounts they obviously wanted trained crews for them and, as BA were a bit awash with pilots at the time, did a deal with BA where BA Pilots were offered half pay stand-down to go to BAF and BAF would pay the other half.

I was interested so went to Southend for an interview with the Chief Pilot. His name is lost to me in the mists of time but I believe he was an ex navy man, John something or other. He said that as well as the Algeria contract, they had a contract for two Viscounts to go to New Zealand. I believe that one Viscount was even ferried part way there before the contract fell through for some reason. Someone perhaps knows more details of that. As my last Viscount flight was January 1982, this was probably 1981.

Anyway I didn’t go through with it and went to the Budgie instead.

[WHBM]

At the time (late '79, early '80) BAF had an ACMI-type contract to operate 4 Heralds in Algeria,
Propliner magazine back in the 1980s had a fascinating extended article by a BAF Herald pilot of a lengthy charter they did to support the Paris-Dakar rally across the Sahara, much being Algeria, which took a couple of weeks, through various obscure airports and desert strips, with some dicey moments. They did a range of supply and personnel ferrying, medevacs, etc as required by the day. Their background in Algerian Herald operations must have helped get the work. If that is your sort of thing, it must have been a great flight.

He announced that he had been to Heathrow, called in a favour from an old friend he had helped in the past, and had bought the entire BA Viscount fleet
Mike Keegan had been the "K" in founding BKS, as described above, who later concentrated at Leeds/Newcastle but originally were based at Southend. After BEA bought them out he made a sufficient fuss about them still having his K in the airline name that there had to be a complete rebranding of the company to Northeast. So it's a bit of a surprise he still had favours to call in over at BA HQ.

[Krakatoa]

When I returned to the British Airway Viscount 802 fleet at Glasgow in 1979 it was manned by a mixture of Cambrian,North East and BA Pilots who operated the remaining uk Viscount routes included some former Cambrian and North East routes. From that time and for the next two years the only Viscount 806 aircraft I saw around the routes belonged to BAF.
Over the years the Cambrian and North East Pilots moved to other BA fleets........

[22/04]

Interesting-flight planning to Nice when going to Palma. I believe Monarch might have done that much more recently ( but some years ago) when operating A321s to Ovda- planning the return to Brussels and then continuing to Luton when fuel was okay to do that.

Would such a practice be frowned on today?

[old,not bold]

I think you’all find the practice was frowned on when BAF did it......amazing how blind an FOI could be.

[canberra97]

When I returned to the British Airway Viscount 802 fleet at Glasgow in 1979 it was manned by a mixture of Cambrian,North East and BA Pilots who operated the remaining uk Viscount routes included some former Cambrian and North East routes. From that time and for the next two years the only Viscount 806 aircraft I saw around the routes belonged to BAF.
Over the years the Cambrian and North East Pilots moved to other BA fleets........

Northeast Airlines or just Northeast but never North East :-)

Sorry I just had to do excuse me 😉

[Mooncrest]

Fascinating stories everyone. Thankyou all again. I admit I'd forgotten I started this thread. The acquisition tale reminds me of how Sir Bishop got his hands on the SAA Viscounts for BMA - right place, right time. And enough brass.

[Groundloop]

Interesting-flight planning to Nice when going to Palma. I believe Monarch might have done that much more recently ( but some years ago) when operating A321s to Ovda- planning the return to Brussels and then continuing to Luton when fuel was okay to do that.

Would such a practice be frowned on today?

I think you’all find the practice was frowned on when BAF did it......amazing how blind an FOI could be.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with in-flight refiling of a flight plan to a further destination. It is a common, perfectly legal practice. It is all based on the percentage of contingency fuel required to be carried. On a long flight this can be quite large and put the aircraft over its max take-off mass, so you file a flightplan to a nearer destination where the contingency fuel requirement is lower so you are below max T/O mass. Once in the air and nearing the filed destination you replan to carry on to your intended destination. Because the remaining distance to go is much shorter the contingency fuel requirement is now much less so the contingency you loaded for the nearer "destination" is now enough to carry on to your intended destination.

[WHBM]

I think you’all find the practice was frowned on when BAF did it....
Very straightforward and standard. For example, Pan Am did it on the first New York to Tokyo nonstops, filing to Anchorage and then refiling for Tokyo when approaching there and recalculating the reserves were adequate from that point onward.

[old,not bold]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with in-flight refiling of a flight plan to any further destination There is when you arrive at the "diversion" destination with insufficient fuel to divert again if necessary. And plan to do this once a week for the whole season. As was done by BAF.

[finncapt]

I don't understand why, re flight planning, anyone has a problem.

i suspect it is "de riguer" for some of the longer sectors that airlines operate nowadays.

i was quite happy to do it on the BA DC10, and other airplanes, and we were mere amateurs in long sector operations compared to those these days.

It is about thinking which, if you read some of the posts on this thread, is severely lacking.

i suspect that the keyboard warriors (who seem to now lurk here) have not a clue about how airplanes operate.

[tornadoken]

In 1983 HK Aircraft Engineering Co extracted 4 of the CAAC V.843 and most of their Darts. These had been the only 8-engined Viscounts, 100% spares were bought as was their experience of USSR-types. Some were NTSN, the a/c were low time, too.
HAECO overhauled them to full CAA Requirements, so not quick or cheap. I showed up at Southend, uttered a price per each, was laughed at and told the whole ex-BA purchase had been less. They didn't even want NTSN engines, enough came in the BA deal.

We moved most engines to US for F-27, the a/c to Indonesia on HP.

[WHBM]

The CAAC Viscounts were the last built, they were assembled at Hurn alongside the first One-Elevens.

The other two of the half-dozen were retained by the Chinese Air Force, but moved on to join the rest in Indonesia later when the Air Force got their own Tridents.

I showed up at Southend, uttered a price per each, was laughed at and told the whole ex-BA purchase had been lessHeard a similar story about Mike Bishop going to South African Airways, with his Chief Engineer and enough US Dollars wired over to cover the costs of buying the best recently retired one for British Midland, and coming home with the whole fleet and all the spares - and change.

[Jn14:6]

And a simulator!

[tubby linton]

Interesting-flight planning to Nice when going to Palma. I believe Monarch might have done that much more recently ( but some years ago) when operating A321s to Ovda- planning the return to Brussels and then continuing to Luton when fuel was okay to do that.

Would such a practice be frowned on today?
It is still used and is known as reclearance flight planning. The ATC flight plan is for the actual destination, but the fuel plan is for a nominated enroute airport with a decision point to decide whether to continue or divert for a splash and dash. Monarch used to use Lille for this on this route.

[Mooncrest]

I guess Mike Keegan got quite a bargain. I wonder if BA had already made an attempt to sell the aircraft but there hadn't been any takers ? Good turn of events for any BA pilots approaching the 55-chop or those just beyond.

[WHBM]

At the time 4-engined turboprops had little market, scheduled short-haul operators were no longer interested and the BAF sort of operation, of whom there were few in Europe was one of the few. The market for the larger and more costly to operate Vanguard and Electra had already fallen through, though the latter made an effective freighter.

An exception was Indonesia, mentioned above in the context of the ex-CAAC aircraft. A big country, this was because the government allowed independent domestic operators, but did not allow them to import jets, only state-owned Garuda could. As a result they were late operators of all three 4-engined turboprops, even the Vanguard, which all ran on some, several hours long, long-line hops along the length of the country. A lot of the Indonesian technical support came from Australia, who had long experience of both Viscount and Electra. However, if Bouraq, who got the ex-CAAC fleet, still had to buy such residual aircraft on HP, there was not a lot of money around there.

Propliner magazine had a couple of accounts of venturers to Indonesia into the 1990s who got some late rides on what were by then historic fleets, including even a chance air-to-air photograph from an Electra of a Vanguard, when they were both in the Hold at Jakarta. Mandala, Merpati, Bouraq and others were the operators. Alex Frater, in "Beyond the Blue Horizon", describes having been assailed by the various independent carrier touts when he approached the Garuda check in at Jakarta, with that valhalla, an IATA fully interchangeable ticket, who assured him that unlike their own carrier his onward Garuda flight was late, cancelled, overbooked and Bad Dinner. All at the same time, seemingly !

[Mooncrest]

Fair point. There's only been a couple of four-engined aircraft in the short-haul category since the Viscount's heyday, the Dash 7 and the BAe 146/RJ and only one of those has props. If there are others, I can't remember them just now !

I think Merpati Nusantara, also in Indonesia, flew both Viscounts and Vanguards.

[Richard Taylor]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54683826@N04/8623094754/

C-CSZB being towed at ABZ, 1996, BWA livery by this time.
I remember the BAF operation at ABZ > LSI - at peak 3x Viscounts based, usually 2x blocks of flights M-F:
Flight Nos. 8501 > 8508; 8509 > 8516 (although 8515/6 was more oft than not canx or non-op
On particular busy periods (Christmas changeovers or upmanning) there was a 3rd block, Flight Nos. 8517 > 8522, even on occasions a further flight 8523/4.
Odd flight Nos. up to LSI; evens back to ABZ.
Those were the days!

[Mooncrest]

Super aeroplane. I'll never stop thinking that !

[old,not bold]

I showed up at Southend, uttered a price per each, was laughed at and told the whole ex-BA purchase had been less.

I guess Mike Keegan got quite a bargain.

Rumour at the time, fuelled by leaks from Danny Bernstein's office, said that the price per airframe, c/w 4 engines, full shipset of seats, galley etc, was £60K. Spares were taken and paid for at original cost price when needed.

I have no idea if this is correct. Knowing Mike Keegan it's very plausible.

[k3k3]

In the mid seventies Alidair had a contract to fly the Scottish Daily Express from Manchester to Lossiemouth with Viscounts every night. I flew with them sitting on the stacks of newspapers many times in 1975, and from Lossie to Aberdeen or Derby on the way down south.

Lossie was my first posting after trade training, as I came from the Portsmouth area Alidair, along with a shift schedule that gave me one week off in four, was a Godsend.

At least one of the aircraft was ex-Air Inter, the titles showed through the over painting.

I was working in the visiting aircraft flight and we would turn them around between Hangars 3 and 4, which was a bit tight for an aircraft of that size. Alidair had both 700 and 800 series aircraft, the ground power receptacle on the 700 series was just behind the plane of the propellers on the centre line of the belly, I didn't like going there, on the 800s it was in line with the trailing edge of the wing which was much better.

I've rambled on a bit but it's just memories.

[treadigraph]

I've rambled on a bit but it's just memories.

Nah, it's nostalgia!

[WHBM]

In the mid seventies Alidair had a contract to fly the Scottish Daily Express from Manchester to Lossiemouth with Viscounts every night. I flew with them sitting on the stacks of newspapers many times in 1975, and from Lossie to Aberdeen or Derby on the way down south.

At least one of the aircraft was ex-Air Inter, the titles showed through the over painting ..... Alidair had both 700 and 800 series
In a reverse of the normal pattern, Alidair picked up various Viscount 800 series in the early 1970s, then a few years later started to dispose of them and got a fleet of 700s, including five from Air Inter. Your experience would have been at the time of the changeover. It was one of the former Air Inter aircraft that experienced Alidair's most infamous moment, landing in a field near Exeter, out of fuel.

[Blackfriar]

My first flight was in a Viscount, BFS-IOM. Years later I worked as a dispatcher and 6 nights a week we had a BAF Viscount deliver 7 tons of The Sun from SEN, then pick up 6 tons of live eels to go to AMS. Working with lots of older aircraft types, often freighters, you always new the Viscount would turn up. Very rarely went tech, unlike the Herald, which Air UK used on passenger schedules and Securicor parcels used on freight. I can remember the screeching darts, particularly when I forgot my ear defenders. I flew in one BFS-SEN on an empty positioning flight on the jump seat and we topped out about 27,000 ft.
Working in BFS in the 80s was a bit like a living museum - Vanguards, Argosy, DC3, Heron, Caravelle, Coronado, CL-44, Belfast, 707, Bristol Freighter...

[WHBM]

My first flight was in a Viscount, BFS-IOM.
Mine too, LPL-IOM. Cambrian V.700 G-AMOO. Fare (child) 3 pounds 18 shillings.

Never looked back !

[DaveReidUK]

My one and only Viscount flight was LHR-LHR, an airtest after we had removed and refitted a tailplane. The Captain added some stalls and an engine shutdown to add to the fun. :O

[Coochycool]

Can anyone on here fill in any details of what was my parents' honeymoon?

They flew by Viscount from Edinburgh to London on 26th March 1961, returning on the 29th.

Would this have been into Croydon aerodrome? Which airline is it likely to have been? I dare say the reg is too much to hope for, but what about the aircraft mark? Any idea of the timetable?

Much obliged

Cooch

[WHBM]

Can anyone on here fill in any details of what was my parents' honeymoon?

They flew by Viscount from Edinburgh to London on 26th March 1961, returning on the 29th.

Would this have been into Croydon aerodrome? Which airline is it likely to have been? I dare say the reg is too much to hope for, but what about the aircraft mark? Any idea of the timetable?
BEA, into Heathrow. I don't think a Viscount ever landed at Croydon (Treadders will know).

Timetable ? That's an easy one. Fare 4 pounds 3 shillings each way off-peak :
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/be/be6104d/be61d-01.jpg
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/be/be6104d/be61d-05.jpg

[Coochycool]

Good effort WHBM, thank you

Very interesting and unexpected to note that they were operating from East Fortune not Turnhouse at that time. Actually, my parents dates slightly precede your timetable so I'll have to double check with them which airport they used. I see Turnhouse was closed that summer for redevelopment with East Fortune used as an alternate and it might just be that services were switched there upon commencement of your timetable on April 1st.

Wiki also advises me that a Viscount promptly had a landing accident at East Fortune that month, nobody hurt thankfully. Is there a simple answer as to what eventually befell the BEA airframes?

As an aside, whilst travelling through Zimbabwe a few years back, I happened to spot 2 Viscount fuselages apparently on display at the roadside in the small town of Gweru. Sadly didn't manage to stop. Anybody have any stories to add about those?

Cheers

Cooch

[treadigraph]

I'd think it unlikely a Viscount would have been into Croydon at all let alone on a scheduled service; I would think the runway length would have been marginal for take off.

[VictorGolf]

Could the Rhodesian Viscounts be the remains of the 2 aircraft shot down by the rebels in the Rhodesian conflict? I believe at least one of them managed to force-land and the survivors were then massacred by the rebels.

[Gordomac]

Luvley stuff fellas. Those who saw my offering on the Hamble thread will know that it provided great entertainment while I recover from the worst flu virus to hit Cyprus ! Much better now & even better for the Viscount thread. All the BKS/Northeast staff was pure nostalgia. My sense of humour not being liked by the Hamble Selection Board, didn't change me because at the BKS Sponsorship pre-lim interviews I was asked what BKS stood for. I replied ; " British Kite Service". This lot liked me although One Selector wished he had a quid for everytime he got that response.

Two of us out of 500 applicants started at OATS as BKS Cadets in Feb 1971. Hardly passed GFT1 and we were working for Northeast. Earmarked for Viscounts at LBA. We were rather busy trying to stay on the course but my info was that BKS and Cambrian were owned by BAS which, in turn was wholly owned by BEA. After graduation, we went off to Derby for the Rolls course and then to Heston for the Smith's Flight System on Link Trainers (five days of it). Uniforms were pure BEA but the wings were NE rather than BEA. Cambrian Cadets went to AST Perth but got the same BEA training thereafter.

I flew the 806X. Heaven only knows how I passed the Cadet Selection because someone would have asked me what was the difference between a 800 and 806 (?) And what was the X supposed to mean ? My sense of humour still fails for a cheery response but I recall noticing that the doors were square rather than round. My first Viscount flight was in a MEA machine fro Tehran to Beirut . That one had round doors and a nice NZ Captain who gave me a pair of ME pilot wings after a FD visit. Fourteen years later, NE Captains were much harder on me but I survived 800 hours to go on to the NE Trident 1e at LHR now painted in BA livery.

Pure pleasure to have flown the 806X. As I said in the Hamble note, glory days indeed.

[Mooncrest]

The 806X was a BEA quirk. These Viscounts donated their engines to the BEA Argosy fleet and the Viscounts got the Argosy engines, whereupon the aircraft were redesignated '806X'. Afterwards they probably weren't much different to the earlier 802 series. I don't know if the 806s ever got their original engines back.

[WHBM]

We had a chat about the roadside Zimbabwe Viscounts a while back. Someone posted some photographs.

Is there a simple answer as to what eventually befell the BEA airframes?The simple answer is No, nothing simple, and the slightly longer one is what this thread is about, for a part, only, of the onetime fleet. BEA worked through about 80 Viscounts, almost all new, which is about 20% of the total production, they were the largest customer. Lesser known is that BOAC bought quite a fleet new as well, which were all placed with their various partly-owned companies in former colonies around the world in the 1950s. BEA were the first operator, and their former fleet were some of the last in use with various independents as well, spanning from early 1950s to late 1990s.

There's a website which can occupy several evenings :

Viscount production list by construction number (http://www.vickersviscount.net/pages_listings/ListingsProductionbycn.aspx)

what was the difference between a 800 and 806 (?) And what was the X supposed to mean ? My sense of humour still fails for a cheery response but I recall noticing that the doors were square rather than round

700 series = round doors. Larger 800 series = square(ish) doors.