Modular CPL hidden costs...

[Dude~]

I am trying to put together a budget so any extra I hav missed woudl be gratefully recieved!

28 hrs training (For ME)
170A hire or does this come under the 28hrs?
CPL theory
Class 1 MED
SKill test hire and CAA fee
Issue fee

Then there is the question of what the hell is the difference between a UK CAA CPL and a JAR-FCL CPL?

Its all such a minefiled.

In fact I dont even know why there is a CPL SE and a CPL ME. Why do some people do their CPL on a Single when you need the experience on a twin? If you do it on a single then do a twin class rating does the cpl then cover twins?

[Katanaman]

Difference between a national license and that of a JAR - FCL.

Well I’ve had a national ATPL for a year or so and have just got a JAR-FCL CPL.

Reason is that on my national license without a local endorsement, I can not fly an aircraft in another Europe country which is a member of JAR.

Solution, get a JAR FCL license and I can now fly in any member country in the JAR system.

[Julian]

Dont forget all those lovely approach and landing fees!

[TooHotToFly]

No such thing as 170A for CPL, it's just 28 hours training. My opinion is that you might as well combine the CPL with MEP Class Rating but if you do complete your CPL on a complex single you can add an MEP rating to your licence at a later date.

[No. 2]

Just to add somethng there that might be of interest..

The CPL is 25 hours and the ME rating 6 hours. But I believe that if you combine the ME rating with the CPL module then you get a concession on the number of hours. You have to do 20 hours single(non complex) and 8 hours ME(complex). You can if you want do more ME hours as your insructor sees fit. This reduces the numbr of hours by 3! Maybe worth it. But you'll have to do the skill test on the multi as this will be the complex a/c that you trained in.

Hope that was of some use.
James

[Gazeem]

It's easy to read too much in to posts but...

Are you really just budgeting for a CPL or are you ultimately after a airline job. If you are after an airline job there are some differences.

With a CPL alone the only real work you can do above a PPL is legally take aerial photographs, pragmatically you will not get a public transport job.

If you want to fly for the airlines the basic minima is:

Class 1 Medical
Commercial Pilots Licence (aeroplane)
Instrument Rating
Multi Engine Rating
JAA/CAA examinations passed at ATPL level (although CPL level is a possibility it is unlikely an airline would be happy)

and depending upon the airline a MCC (Multi Crew co-operation) certificate.

The CPL modular course (completed one month ago) entailed 25 hours training of which 10 hours was IMC. Within that 25 hours you can take your 170A...which I did prior to my test, so I am not sure why as previous poster said that you do not need one. On top of the 25 hours (which is the minimum training requirement, a lot of people take more, its better to train more than get a partial or fail) you have to pay for the hire of the aircraft and the skill test fee (£564 to the CAA).

There is very little point in paying the extra to train for your CPL on a multi engine aircraft. A CPL is a CPL it is not by itself endorsed for single or multi engine. A multi engine rating on the other hand is required to fly ME. If you take your skill test in a multi engine aircraft you will have to deal with assymetric emergencies as well as the CPL GFT, more pressure, more chance of a fail or a re-test.

The Instrument rating must be completed in a multi engine aircraft if you want to fly IMC in a multi engine aircraft. A CPL does not maybe that is where you confusion lies.

If you have any other questions mail me, I know the CAA GIDs are not too user friendly.

Gaz

[TooHotToFly]

Gazeem,

Since the introduction of JAR, the 170A is only relevant to the IR course. All that is required for the CPL course is a course completion declaration, signed by the Head of Training / CFI. Some schools may still use the idea of a 170A as a pre-test check and indeed the 170A form but it is not an official flight that needs to be conducted prior to the CPL skill test.

[Gazeem]

Thanks for the clarification Too Hot, my school did indeed use the form,

So there you have it, if your school uses the 170A it should not cost above the course fee.

[Send Clowns]

To answer ther original question, in order:

The 170A and test aircraft hire should be included in the 28 hours, since the course legal minimum is 25 hours. The 170A technically need not be a separate flight at all, just a sign off ready for the test is sufficient for CPL (ooops said already above). For IR the 170 must be a test-profile flight with a more highly-qualified instructor.

CPL theory is a separate, approved course. If planning an IR within 3 (or is it 5?) years do the ATPL, to save yourself 4 exams. Not sure of schools approved for CPL theory, except for GTS in Bournemouth for distance learning. Many for ATPL. ATPL course around £4000 full time or I think half that distance learning. CPL cheaper, don't know how much. Exams around £50 each (9 CPL, 14 ATPL).

Class I initial medical was £400 when I did it a year and a half ago. Must be at CAA's "the Belgrano" in Gatwick.

CAA skills test fee was about £500 when I did it, £375 for a partial resit ( :o )

Issue fee was £172 with IR and ME.

I did my CPL SE because it was cheaper - the separate ME rating I did in Florida at US$150 per hour dual hire, as cheap as a self-fly warrior in Southern England!

[Dude~]

Gaz,
thanks for the reply. I am headed eventually for the airlines, if at all possible, but rather than head for a frozen ATPL straight away, I am trying tp pace myself and not get carried away with ideas of spendng too many thousand s at once. Right now, my next step is to obtain a useful commercial licence (CAA, or JAR) with a minmum of expense. Therefore I am planning to simply do the CPL theory as there is no way I will be able to afford an IR in the next 3 years. Basically all I was checking is that if I did a CPL on a SE and I wanted later on to fly ME planes, would I have to retake the skills test on a ME plane. Of course I now see this is nonsense as I wouldnt have a job anyway, except as a SE FI(R) if all goes to plan. So I wouldnt need to do the CPL on a MEP anyway.

So, I need to plan for 20 hrs PA28 and 5 hrs PA28R dual instrauction rates with commercial training surcharge. Plus what 3 hrs hire for the skills test plus almost 600 quid test fee. Plus issue fee. plus class I med plus CPL theory, plus 10% to cover 'other stuff' Now we are getting somewhere!

Right, where is the cheapest place in the UK to do all this, or is it possible to get it cheaper in South AFrica or the states?

[Snigs]

Dude, be wary that the average pilot who has never flown a complex single takes perhaps another 5 hours on it before they're ready for the skills test (5+5=10).

I hope nobody reading this expects (and budgets) to do this in the minimum hours. I completed my CPL in just over 26 hours training (then add the test time on), but I had over 50 hours on an Arrow (complex).

Please please please be over cautious with your estimates. If you run out of money before the test (as happened to a friend of mine) then it'll cost you far more in the long run to get back up to speed.