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Simmbob
3rd Dec 2018, 14:53
Ok here's a question that I'm sure wont cause any controversy.....

Is veganism... A religion.
As I am not very religious at all, I don't feel qualified to hypophysis...

Simmbob..

A_Van
3rd Dec 2018, 15:13
These "innocent krishnaites" will soon change your language :-)

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/meatrelated-sayings-could-go-out-of-fashion-to-avoid-offending-vegans-a4006486.html

With such folks this world is really going slightly mad

Simmbob
3rd Dec 2018, 15:22
Well .. Stone the crows..

That really is going to far.

Simmbob

Nemrytter
3rd Dec 2018, 15:37
No.

My turn: Is stupidity a disease?

mikemmb
3rd Dec 2018, 15:58
No.

My turn: Is stupidity a disease?

No! .........But for some itís a Lifestyle Choice.

racedo
3rd Dec 2018, 17:10
Veganism / Vegetarianism............ Old Red Indian viewpoint of Lazy Hunter

Ancient Observer
3rd Dec 2018, 17:30
I am not sure that the habit of veganism itself is a disease. But there is something wrong with the nutters who will kill others to impose their fascist vegan point of view.

pr00ne
3rd Dec 2018, 17:31
Killer Vegans? When/where was that then?

ATNotts
3rd Dec 2018, 17:32
Veggies I can live with, I don't agree with their standpoint. As far as I am concerned, it isn't a meal if there isn't something dead on the plate - just my opinion. Vegans on the other hand, are fanatics who won't touch anything if it's been near an animal - be it eggs, milk, cheese, leather or whatever else, which is as much as anything else a political statement. Some refuse to eat food if it has been made in a kitchen that has prepared meat or dairy products and then are "professionally offended" if they find out that there is so much as a gram of animal material anywhere near their meal and complain like merry hell as though it was some sort of infringement on their precious human rights.

For heaven's sake, we are all born with canine teeth, as well as molars - because our physiology is designed to consume a mix of meat and plant material; I would imagine that the human gut has some difficulty with consuming all vegetables without supplements.

All written with no apology whatsoever to any vegans on this forum.

arem
3rd Dec 2018, 17:34
Nutters - was that intended as a pun?

pr00ne
3rd Dec 2018, 17:40
ATNotts,

Charming. With an attitude like that I see you as bad as the raving loony extremist vegan/veggy brigade. What's wrong with a bit of tolerant live and let live...

ATNotts
3rd Dec 2018, 17:52
ATNotts,

Charming. With an attitude like that I see you as bad as the raving loony extremist vegan/veggy brigade. What's wrong with a bit of tolerant live and let live...

Nothing, except it should be a two way street.

If I invite a veggie / vegan for dinner I'm expected to provide a special veggie / vegan meal for them; if I hypothetically, (because it won't happen!) am invited to eat a at vegan / veggie household i'll be expected to eat what they cook - i.e. vegan or veggie. I don't tell people what they should eat, but they expect me to conform with their political / lifestyle choices.

pattern_is_full
3rd Dec 2018, 17:56
I would imagine that the human gut has some difficulty with consuming all vegetables without supplements.

Gut - not really any problem. The rest of the metabolic process - yes - due to no one vegetal food having all the necessary amino acids and proteins.

Thus the "combinations" in cultural-vegetarian (often peasant) diets around the world, such as: rice and beans (including rice and soya), corn and beans (Mexico), chick-peas and wheat (Mid-East), tomatoes and wheat (Italian pasta), etc. or even the old American standby, peanut butter on bread. Which, combined, provide the necessary components.

BTW - I can assure you that cooked legumes, grains and vegetables on your plate are "dead." ;)

Nevertheless, I myself am a proud and happy omnivore.

On the original question, some religions include vegetarianism as an aspect, but I am sure there are also atheist vegans.

Gertrude the Wombat
3rd Dec 2018, 18:42
Killer Vegans? When/where was that then?
Animal rights terrorists. I haven't heard of any being active for quite a while, but they definitely used to be into car bombs and the like.

treadigraph
3rd Dec 2018, 18:47
Saw something recently about some vegans forcing their pet cats and dogs to follow a vegan diet... :rolleyes:

cdtaylor_nats
3rd Dec 2018, 18:52
Dogs can be fed a vegan diet; feeding a vegan diet to cats will get you an invitation to explain to a court why you deliberately slowly starved your pet to death.

Simplythebeast
3rd Dec 2018, 18:59
No chance of feeding my dogs a purely vegan diet. They are already capable of emitting sufficiently noxious gases to clear the living room.....were they to eat solely vegan they could probably be used for crowd control.

BehindBlueEyes
3rd Dec 2018, 19:04
Veggies I can live with, I don't agree with their standpoint. As far as I am concerned, it isn't a meal if there isn't something dead on the plate - just my opinion. Vegans on the other hand, are fanatics who won't touch anything if it's been near an animal - be it eggs, milk, cheese, leather or whatever else, which is as much as anything else a political statement. Some refuse to eat food if it has been made in a kitchen that has prepared meat or dairy products and then are "professionally offended" if they find out that there is so much as a gram of animal material anywhere near their meal and complain like merry hell as though it was some sort of infringement on their precious human rights.

For heaven's sake, we are all born with canine teeth, as well as molars - because our physiology is designed to consume a mix of meat and plant material; I would imagine that the human gut has some difficulty with consuming all vegetables without supplements.

All written with no apology whatsoever to any vegans on this forum.

Iíll supply the contentious post.

Donít some religions also insist on their food being prepared in a specially designated area of the kitchen to ensure that certain products donít touch each other because of dietary laws?

Iíll be honest; given a choice, I would rather eat fish or the veggie option. If my host serves me meat, I will eat it as a courtesy but Iím uncomfortable with slaughtering a warm blooded animal. I certainly couldnít do it myself and because most of us only see the end process on the supermarket shelves, itís easy to forget about how it got there. I donít have a problem with others choices to eat meat, itís a personal thing. Just getting soft in my old age I guess.

Really donít get veganism though - although a vegan will probably point out that the milk/cheese/eggs I enjoy are byproducts of the meat industry. :sad:

BehindBlueEyes
3rd Dec 2018, 19:08
Dogs can be fed a vegan diet; feeding a vegan diet to cats will get you an invitation to explain to a court why you deliberately slowly starved your pet to death.

Youíre correct. Taurine is an essential amino acid that cats need to survive. It can only be found in muscle tissue and organs so there is no way that a feline can be fed a vegan or veggie diet.

racedo
3rd Dec 2018, 19:34
Saw something recently about some vegans forcing their pet cats and dogs to follow a vegan diet... :rolleyes:

Yeah bet the cats didn't eat mice or birds when they let out of the house.

gileraguy
3rd Dec 2018, 19:36
being Vegan gives you awesome super powers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFCAcQxmYDI

Gertrude the Wombat
3rd Dec 2018, 20:31
Yeah bet the cats didn't eat mice or birds when they let out of the house.
If you don't feed your cat properly it will eat mice or birds, but only if it can't find a lazier or more efficient alternative, such as eating rabbits ...









... or, preferably, getting the neighbours to feed it.

treadigraph
3rd Dec 2018, 20:50
OK, you can feed a dog a vegan diet but given the choice what would it opt for?

Neighbour's cats used to try and con me into believing they weren't being fed properly but I knew better! Didn't stop me giving them the odd morsel though...:p

Member of my extended family insisted on his brood being veggies - No1 daughter ended up rather aenemic in her late teens and both girls are now omnivores.

If you don't feed your cat properly it will eat mice or birds, but only if it can't find a lazier or more efficient alternative, such as eating rabbits ...

Once talked to a local in a pub about his friendly hound which had apparently gifted the family the hindquarters of a rather dead and rotten deer, apparently dragged home under the back gate from the woods behind their house earlier that day. I wondered if the rest of the deer was on the other side of the gate.

gupta
3rd Dec 2018, 22:04
The question that never gets answered:

If "normal" restaurants have vegetarian/vegan options on the menu, why don't vegetarian/vegan restaurants have meat options? And I don't mean those vegan tofu "bacon " items

WingNut60
3rd Dec 2018, 22:07
I still have the commotion and image etched in my brain, of the scene from our upstairs balcony as my (small / mid-sized) pooch trotted (strutted) ahead of our housemaid, her, snapped leash in hand, and he with a recently dead white moggie in his mouth.
He was sooooo proud. Tail curled festively over his back. Like Patton with six flags on his jeep.

I'm an Aussie. We don't like cats very much, either.

ehwatezedoing
3rd Dec 2018, 22:29
Vegans on the other hand, are fanatics who won't touch anything if it's been near an animal - be it eggs, milk, cheese, leather or whatever else, which is as much as anything else a political statement. Some refuse to eat food if it has been made in a kitchen that has prepared meat or dairy products and then are "professionally offended" if they find out that there is so much as a gram of animal material anywhere near their meal and complain like merry hell as though it was some sort of infringement on their precious human rights.

It has more to do with animal rights than anything else.
When you think of how they are ďtreatedĒ before landing on your plate (or any of their byproducts) Itís not that complicated to understand a vergeanís point of view.
Some compassion might be required though....

And before you nail me, Iím omnivore.

Gertrude the Wombat
3rd Dec 2018, 22:30
If "normal" restaurants have vegetarian/vegan options on the menu, why don't vegetarian/vegan restaurants have meat options?
The last veggie restaurant I went into did offer a choice - "Have you been here before? (No.) We only do veggie food here, is that OK?" before showing us to a table and handing over a menu. (It was a pizza place. It's perfectly normal for an omnivore to eat a veggie pizza, and we were hungry, and it was the middle of the night, and we didn't know our way around that bit of town, so this was absolutely fine.)

Ascend Charlie
3rd Dec 2018, 23:13
We don't like cats very much, either.

Cats are OK, with a little peanut sauce.

To all those vegetarians who criticise meat-eaters, I am pretty sure that the cows and sheep I devour are all vegetarians. Pigs might not be, though.

WingNut60
3rd Dec 2018, 23:13
I am all for freedom of choice but my understanding is that young children, in particular, need enough of fats in their diet to allow the brain and nervous system develop normally.
In addition to supplying fuel for the body, fats help the body absorb some vitamins.
Vitamins A, D, E, and K are fat soluble, meaning they can only be absorbed if there's fat in a person's diet.
And I am reasonably sure that I have read that some of those fats are simply not available from a strictly vegan diet.

If an adult wants to eschew animal products in their diet then so be it.
But I am not sure denying dietary essentials to a growing child is morally justifiable on the grounds of protecting animals that have specifically been bred for slaughter.

WingNut60
3rd Dec 2018, 23:18
The parrots and pigeons (native and otherwise) that litter my backyard have no reluctance in eating the meat that we put out for the kookaburras and magpies.

Watching a Port Lincoln parrot scarfing down a lump of kangaroo meat sheds completely new light (for me) on vegetarianism in nature.
As did the discovery of cannibalism in chimpanzees, for others.

racedo
3rd Dec 2018, 23:26
Old next door neigbours cross the road were Vegetarian and Vegan.................... she always looked way too skinny, otoh he looked 10 years younger than he actually was, in very good health and lots of women eyed him up (the Ba****d) when we would be chatting on the pavement.

Eddie Dean
3rd Dec 2018, 23:59
Due to not being able to digest meat and fats, I was introduced to vegan diet by my daughter. She is neither underweight nor malnourished.
Whilst I previously held the same thoughts as some here about veganism I now have a lot of respect for them.
From my own research I have found that I agree with their ethics and principles.
FWIW

WingNut60
4th Dec 2018, 00:30
Almost every living organism in the kingdom of animalia survives (flourishes) simply because they ingest some other living organism.
Even the so-called vegetarians ingest gut flora at some stage in their life. You don't come pre-loaded with the stuff.
The argument for veganism is based on empathy towards other members of our own taxonomic kingdom; perhaps some form of anthropomorphism; maybe not.
But there is no logic within their moral argument that adequately explains why our kingdom should define that boundary of acceptability.
It is an artificial boundary set by the vegans with no explanation of WHY it is more appropriate?

It is no less artificial than my decision, or rather, preference, not to eat insects. (Though, as a West Australian, I do get my annual share of bush flies).

I see their assumption of a moral high ground as being no less than elitist nonsense, much as I see PC.
Attention seeking by those who might otherwise attract no attention.

Until the vegans start subsisting on a natural diet of earthen minerals (I am sure it is possible if you try hard enough) then I'll stick to being an omnivore.

sitigeltfel
4th Dec 2018, 07:13
If vegans had the slightest concern about animal welfare they would be protesting at abattoirs and food outlets that practice and serve meat killed by ritual slaughter. That they don't exposes them as hypocrites and cowards.

ATNotts
4th Dec 2018, 08:20
Really donít get veganism though - although a vegan will probably point out that the milk/cheese/eggs I enjoy are byproducts of the meat industry.

They'd be wrong to do so. Dairy cattle are kept to produce milk, from which we get dairy products. Cattle reared for meat are there for that purpose, not for dairy. Of course veal, detested by vegans and veggies, and a fair few omnivores too, is a by-product of the dairy industry. The males being generally slaughters, unless retained for beef or breeding purposes. Not eating veal, assuming you are an omnivore means good meat is going to waste. It's a crying shame that the PC brigade has pretty well stopped the sale of veal in mainstream outlets; a veal T-Bone steak is delicious.

troppo
4th Dec 2018, 08:38
unbelievable (https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/bringing-home-the-bacon-offensive-to-vegans/news-story/8980653eddd9d27919024b6489c10f07)
:mad:

sitigeltfel
4th Dec 2018, 10:05
The recent vegan demo at the Touro steakhouse in Brighton was led by Morgan Kayleigh Giampaolo.
She is the daughter of American businessman David Giampaolo who heads Gousto, a company that sells ready packed meat products for home delivery.


:rolleyes:

Sir Niall Dementia
4th Dec 2018, 10:38
I wouldn't mind following a vegan diet, but I've never found a decent way to cook vegans yet:E

SND

Tankertrashnav
4th Dec 2018, 11:36
Loads of posts here about "the vegans" as though they are a homogenous group all with the same aims and beliefs. "vegans say this, vegans do that" etc.
Lots of straw men being set up to knock down and yet when it comes down to it 90% of vegans just want to get on quietly with avoiding meat and animal products. Good luck to them, As for "why don't vegan restaurants offer a meat option?" - how ridiculous, would you go into a steakhouse and complain if poached salmon wasn't on the menu?

I'm a meat eater myself, but purely through choice I also eat many vegetarian dishes which I cook myself. One thing, I am very keen on knowing where my meat is sourced, and I haven't touched turkey in years as I hate the way it is raised.

Incidentally re skinny vegans - thats a popular myth. My daughter was a vegan for 15 years but is now "only" a vegetarian (eats eggs, dairy etc) but she has struggled to keep her weight down all her adult life and is definitely what is I believe is now termed a "plus size".

meadowrun
4th Dec 2018, 11:47
A lot of vegans I've known have eventually stumbled on a cure for their malady.
There's always something, be it a sausage, prime rib, a slice of turkey breast or even, heaven forbid, mcchicken mcnuggets.

treadigraph
4th Dec 2018, 13:25
Meadowrun, I find bacon to be the cure for all ills.

meadowrun
4th Dec 2018, 13:37
Yup, like the philosopher's stone of meat and all things charcuterie.

They make bacon jam.
Life is good.

double_barrel
4th Dec 2018, 13:38
Meadowrun, I find bacon to be the cure for all ills.

I was a veggy for some 12 years. Then one cold, grey morning in small boat, knackered after a long watch, someone offered me a bacon butty. I hesitated about a nano second and scoffed it down, and never looked back.

treadigraph
4th Dec 2018, 13:44
There is nothing, absolutely nothing as tasty as bacon and *eggs on toast. I don't buy bacon to cook very often but I usually have a cafe or pub breakfast each week - 'tis indeed a treat.

*poached, scrambled or fried, makes no never mind to me!

Mac the Knife
4th Dec 2018, 16:53
Friend of mine's daughter is a vegan. Skinny as a rail, has to take all sort of supplements to stay alive.

Still she got her ATPL and has a job in the right-hand seat, so it can't be too bad.
Ace button pusher and knob-twiddler apparently, no idea how she is as a pilot.

Mac (confirmed carnivore)

{There's a place on Earth for all God's animals, just next to the gravy and potatoes}

Tankertrashnav
4th Dec 2018, 17:15
Friend of mine's daughter is a vegan. Skinny as a rail, has to take all sort of supplements to stay alive.

I suspect that her build is more to do with genetics. As posted above my daughter (veggie, used to be a vegan) can best be described as "built for comfort". And we all know skinny people who exist on a diet of pasties and pork pies. Not an area you can generalise in.

pax britanica
4th Dec 2018, 17:18
I have no problems with vegetarians as they usually make it their choice and accept other views vegans seem a bit over the top-again fine if its your choice but then let it be your children's choice when they grow up and certainly do not interfere with pets-cats and dogs both being carnivorous.

i do have a couple of questions about vegans though and I admit is kind of lowering the tone of things but they intrigue me, both are entirely hypothetical

Could vegans be cannibals ? after all we are not animals we are humans
and err do vegan women do blow jobs -as I said entirely hypothetical question

Broadening things out if vegans are also 'green' as I imagine many are what do they do about things like not wearing leather since many substitutes are oil based and therefore not green -or if they were wooden clogs can they be sure they are from entirely sustainable forests and what about drugs which might have involved a degree of animal testing , would they fly EasyJet and not BA as BA have leather seats -if they are pilots would they sit on those fleecy things some airlines use. it seems something of an pen ended belief system where you can never know where to draw the line to comply with an ideal -do they kill flies, can they even have a cat as a pet as all cats kill mice birds insects etc, can they eat insects , can they eat any vegetable subject to pest control ,especially organic food why biological control such as ladybirds that eat aphids or wasps that kill the moths that kill bee larvae-there seems to my mind no way you can live on this earth without killing or condoning the killing of things . Can they eat things with palm oil in-a vegetable product but one that evicts orang utans from their homes and causing them to die in increasing numbers

Apologies to any vegans, although surely there cannot be any on JB can there/

Argonautical
4th Dec 2018, 19:40
A Swansea University lecturer has said the rise of veganism will soon lead to phrases like "bringing home the bacon" falling into disuse. He suggests it is replaced with "bringing home the bagals".

evansb
4th Dec 2018, 20:56
Bagels? Carbohydrates are falling out of favour, as well as foods containing gluten. How about "bringing home the beets"?

WingNut60
4th Dec 2018, 23:07
Nothing has been more catastrophic to the existence of vulnerable species (plant or animal) than the clearing of land for agriculture; mainly related to grain production.
How do vegans reconcile that fact while munching on their tofu?

Tankertrashnav
5th Dec 2018, 00:01
Bringing home the bagels? I never did get bagels - tasteless things, no wonder they need great fillings like smoked salmon to cheer them up, And I suppose a bacon bagel isn't something you're going to see very often!

gileraguy
5th Dec 2018, 04:46
How do you know you're having a conversation with a vegan?


They'll tell you...

Pinky the pilot
5th Dec 2018, 09:13
Re the post of some Vegans feeding their Dogs and Cats a vegan diet; There are two Cats in the Pinky household and they get the best of care, which includes regular check ups from a local Vet.

During one visit from the Vet, whom we shall call Dr Wendy, she mentioned that on some occasions in her career as a Vet she had encountered Pet owners who had tried to have their Pets on a Vegan diet.

Dr Wendy stated that she always told these Pet owners that a Vegan diet "was most inappropriate" for Cats, and in her opinion, Dogs as well!:= And that she would make a formal report to the RSPCA of anyone who fed their pet Cats or Dogs on a Vegan diet if they continued to do so after being warned of its inappropriateness.!:ugh::=

'Nuff said.

Matt Skrossa
5th Dec 2018, 09:18
Can babies being raised as vegans drink their mother's milk?

ShyTorque
5th Dec 2018, 09:20
Killer Vegans? When/where was that then?

Watch out for them. They'll flog you to death with a wet lettuce.

But at least they probably won't eat you.

Pinky the pilot
5th Dec 2018, 09:24
Can babies being raised as vegans drink their mother's milk?

I nominate the above quoted post by Matt Skrossa for post of the year!:ok:

Do we have a seconder?

sitigeltfel
5th Dec 2018, 09:49
Watch out for them. They'll flog you to death with a wet lettuce.

But at least they probably won't eat you.

But when you are buried, you will be fertilising the soil and the nutrients will then go into the food chain, including the crops the vegans eat.

There was one on GMB this morning claiming that it was OK to eat eggs from chickens she knew, but not from chickens she didn't know. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to reach the conclusion that people like her aren't entirely right in the head.

TLDNMCL
5th Dec 2018, 10:42
Putting the moral arguments to one side for a moment, I had lady friend who was vegan, although she never pressed the point, and would happily eat at restaurants with me where I would tuck in to all manner of four-legged things in her presence. Where it did go wrong was that her chosen diet left her a little...unreliable in the digestive department. Moments of passion are very rapidly quelled when you notice that it wasn't just a little bit of wind slipping out. It didn't last.

ShyTorque
5th Dec 2018, 10:59
There was one on GMB this morning claiming that it was OK to eat eggs from chickens she knew, but not from chickens she didn't know. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to reach the conclusion that people like her aren't entirely right in the head.

I agree. Her thoughts are scrambled and the yolk's on her.

cattletruck
5th Dec 2018, 11:00
I like to mess with the minds of vegans and tell them that when plants are slaughtered they scream in slow motion which is why they are ignorant to it. Then I ask them why after eating just red or green the end result is the same - brown. Same brown magic happens when we eat the cow that ate the grass or eat the grass that ate the cow.

Then I ask them if they would eat insects? Interesting one that.

But generally I think it's okay for people to choose their own dietary way as long as they don't hound others with their beliefs. Fasting is healthy as is going meat-free for a short while. We should celebrate that we are spoilt for choice and not a rugby team on a doomed flight over the Andes.

Tankertrashnav
5th Dec 2018, 11:27
There was one on GMB this morning claiming that it was OK to eat eggs from chickens she knew, but not from chickens she didn't know.

Well actually I can see her point. I dont exactly "know" the chickens whose eggs I eat but I can see them over my hedge in my neighbour's field. They live in a well protected fox proof compound with the hen house in the centre. I trade their eggs for grazing for my neighbour's cattle on my land, and lovely eggs they are. I'd much prefer to eat her eggs where I know the source than eggs laid in a battery house (not all "free range" eggs on sale are quite what they are made out to be)

How do you know you're having a conversation with a vegan?

They'll tell you

I thought that was pilots!

Simmbob
5th Dec 2018, 11:54
Well actually I can see her point. I dont exactly "know" the chickens whose eggs I eat but I can see them over my hedge in my neighbour's field. They live in a well protected fox proof compound with the hen house in the centre. I trade their eggs for grazing for my neighbour's cattle on my land, and lovely eggs they are. I'd much prefer to eat her eggs where I know the source than eggs laid in a battery house (not all "free range" eggs on sale are quite what they are made out to be)



I thought that was pilots!

Imagine the din.... A vegan - pilot

Simmbob

BehindBlueEyes
5th Dec 2018, 16:17
A Swansea University lecturer has said the rise of veganism will soon lead to phrases like "bringing home the bacon" falling into disuse. He suggests it is replaced with "bringing home the bagals".

Not heard of ĎspeciesismĎ before:

PETA asks people to stop using 'bring home the bacon' - NBC2 News (http://www.nbc-2.com/story/39591413/peta-asks-people-to-stop-using-antianimal-language)

B Fraser
5th Dec 2018, 19:17
Watch out for them. They'll flog you to death with a wet lettuce.

Not much chance, a vegan wouldn't have the strength.