Snoozing pilot misses landing - The Australian

[LKinnon]

Need to be a brave passenger to fly Tasfast/Vortex Air, especially over water.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/snoozing-pilot-misses-landing/news-story/5a8a1674b631b39192b67105b80e74b1Snoozing pilot misses landingAn investigation has been launched into an incident in which a pilot fell asleep during a one-hour charter flight, resulting in the aircraft overflying its destination by 46km. The 6.21am Vortex Air flight from Devonport to King Island on November 8

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1049x590/untitled_f3cc20568fa8ccd405237adb618a77867659b426.jpg

[Slezy9]

Need to be a brave passenger to fly Tasfast/Vortex Air, especially over water.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/snoozing-pilot-misses-landing/news-story/5a8a1674b631b39192b67105b80e74b1Snoozing pilot misses landingAn investigation has been launched into an incident in which a pilot fell asleep during a one-hour charter flight, resulting in the aircraft overflying its destination by 46km. The 6.21am Vortex Air flight from Devonport to King Island on November 8



Behind a paywall

[Allan L]

ATSB investigation
Investigation: AO-2018-075 - Pilot incapacitation involving Piper PA-31, VH-TWU, near King Island, Tasmania, on 8 November 2018 (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2018/aair/ao-2018-075/)

[Squawk7700]

Need to be a brave passenger to fly Tasfast/Vortex Air, especially over water
Why is that exactly? Do you know something about the company or its’ pilots that we don’t? What are you suggesting here? Why “especially over water?” If the pilot is over land and asleep does that make the flight safer?

[Aussie Bob]

Need to be a brave passenger to fly Tasfast/Vortex Air, especially over water.

What a dumb statement. It would appear (I don’t know) that the pilot was the sole occupant. A passenger would have changed the entire demographic of the flight. Again, I don’t know but isn’t this freight run?

I am so over “experts” making statements on incidents before the investigation is completed.

[CAVOK92]

Not just over water. This is the same company that had a little bingle with some bollards at Mount Hotham and flew home with pax onboard. Also landed at a private ALA that was closed due runway maintenance. Don’t know how they missed the large X’s on the runway that were made out of tyres.

[machtuk]

A lot of pilots would have fallen asleep briefly especially in these sorts of Ops where it's an early morning dep & that drone in smooth air would dull ones senses at times, fatigue is a hideous thing, ALL humans suffer from it! Hope they don't crucify the guy, gets help & learns from it as other can do:-)

[LKinnon]

Why is that exactly? Do you know something about the company or its’ pilots that we don’t? What are you suggesting here? Why “especially over water?” If the pilot is over land and asleep does that make the flight safer?

I have experience with the Vortex/Tasfast operations and am not surprised about this at all. Last time I looked their planes were held together by speed tape and fencing wire. The Tuckers have a "colorful" history.

The difference is that flying over land is likely to offer better "premature" landing options than flying over water.

Poorly maintained fleet, inexperienced pilots, inadequate management, Are they still charging for training and ICUS time?

[Squawk7700]

I have experience with the Vortex/Tasfast operations and am not surprised about this at all. Last time I looked their planes were held together by speed tape and fencing wire. The Tuckers have a "colorful" history.

The difference is that flying over land is likely to offer better "premature" landing options than flying over water.

Poorly maintained fleet, inexperienced pilots, inadequate management, Are they still charging for training and ICUS time?

Quite powerful words you are using there.

So you’re saying that due to pilot inexperience and poor maintenance, plus the fact that the pilot may have had to pay for their own training, has caused the pilot to fall asleep?

I hope that LKinnon is not a derivative of your real name.

[Oakape]

Pilot flies nearly 50km past destination after 'falling asleep mid-air' (http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/pilot-flies-nearly-50km-past-destination-after-falling-asleep-mid-air/ar-BBQ7XBk?ocid=ientp)

Despite this, the jet landed safely at 6.21am at King Island Airport

[LKinnon]

Quite powerful words you are using there.

So you’re saying that due to pilot inexperience and poor maintenance, plus the fact that the pilot may have had to pay for their own training, has caused the pilot to fall asleep?

I hope that LKinnon is not a derivative of your real name.



At Moorabbin walk past the Tasfast/Vortex planes and have a look for yourself. A lot of has previously been written here about "ICUS" and "training" programs run by these people, do a search.

What would have happened if the Tasfast/Vortex pilot had not woken in time? He would have run out of fuel over Bass Strait and the wreck would never be found.

It is not speculation, the plane was uncontrolled and headed out to sea because the pilot was asleep. I don't recall a similar situation with any other charter operator ever.

I would never fly Vortex/Tasfast nor would I let any of my family do so either.

[Squawk7700]

At Moorabbin walk past the Tasfast/Vortex planes and have a look for yourself. A lot of has previously been written here about "ICUS" and "training" programs run by these people, do a search.

What would have happened if the Tasfast/Vortex pilot had not woken in time? He would have run out of fuel over Bass Strait and the wreck would never be found.

It is not speculation, the plane was uncontrolled and headed out to sea because the pilot was asleep. I don't recall a similar situation with any other charter operator ever.

I would never fly Vortex/Tasfast nor would I let any of my family do so either.

But how did an allegedly poorly maintained plane and allegedly poor management of the company cause the pilot to fall asleep? Are you saying that carbon monoxide entered the cabin due to maintenance issues or perhaps the pilot was forced to illegally work additional hours, thus casing him to be fatigued? Where is the link?

[On eyre]

LKinnon please show us the axe you appear to be grinding so fervently !!

[LKinnon]

LKinnon please show us the axe you appear to be grinding so fervently !!

I have no specific axe to grind, however I've seen the Tasfast/Vortex Air operations as an outsider for several years and wondered about safety there. Lots of little things that seemed to happen consistently over the years and concerned me.

Once I had a look thru the windscreen of a Chieftain they operate for freight and noticed that the dash panel seemed to held together with wire, with old and decrepit avionics that I wouldn't trust. Also have seen tyres so bald the belts could be seen.

Other little things, like the side perspex windows covered with some sort of adhesive sheets. I assume this was because it was cheaper than replacing the perspex windows.

Other things that have worried me are the Vortex/Tasfast pilots regularly taxiing fast than I thought safe on the apron and parking in an ad-hoc manner outside of designated parking bays.

My guess is that CASA will be reviewing the Tasfast/Vortex Air Fatigue Management procedures. If I was a pilot there I'd be expecting drug and alcohol testing by CASA some time soon too.

Looks like this story has now been picked up the international media too, including CNN.

[Squawk7700]

Other little things, like the side perspex windows covered with some sort of adhesive sheets. I assume this was because it was cheaper than replacing the perspex windows.

Don’t be so quick to jump to conclusions. The adhesive you speak of helps to keep the sun off the live crayfish as they need to stay cool and calm to be transported. All is not necessarily what it seems.

[mikewil]

with old and decrepit avionics that I wouldn't trust
.

Interesting observation. I made an enquiry a number of years back about doing my MECIR there as they were offering it in their chieftains and asked if their fleet was fitted with RMI and HSI. They rudely responded that some were and weren't but I shouldn't need them as an IFR pilot should be able to fly without them.

While the above statement is true, most IFR training in the 21st century is done using these instruments with only a bit of limited panel work done without. Not too sure I like the idea of an IFR charter operator conducting operations at night over Bass Strait in poor weather without an HSI.

Once again yes, its not mandatory and charter guys should be able to fly without them but they are pretty standard kit these days even in crusty old chieftains and it says a lot about an operator when they don't do at least some upgrades to modernise 50 year old instrumentation.

[longlegs]

Same Tucker's as Promair formerly of Welshpool?

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/866x596/promair_over_welshpool_9a3199bb2b4fcd902016fa909af4168c6839c 82d.png
Promair PA31 Navajos VH-EYF and VH-BRL

[Superfly Slick Dick]

Yes, it is the same family.

[transition_alt]

I really have to laugh at how off the mark some of you blokes are, especially ol’ mate LKinnon.

Insight into an operation is a beautiful thing. Comments such as above is how general aviation operators can be destroyed off false facts in this amazingly regulated country we’re in.

For the record, Vortex Air aircraft have updated avionics. So both of you speaking have not had anything to do with the company for many years.

All their Chieftain’s have either a G430, 530 or GTN650 TSO146 gps fitted. All have HSI’s with dual instrumentation and others have Aspen PFD’s or Sandel electronic AH/ASI/ALT.

I have no idea how any of that is related to falling asleep and fatigue. But maybe the increased maintenance they have was not a blessing. If the autopilot didn’t work, he’d likely be more alert and potentially not fall asleep. I think it’s the 16 hour TOD approval that needs to be reviewed. But hey, who am I to speculate?

[Toruk Macto]

Same Tucker's as Promair formerly of Welshpool?

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/866x596/promair_over_welshpool_9a3199bb2b4fcd902016fa909af4168c6839c 82d.png
Promair PA31 Navajos VH-EYF and VH-BRL
Thanks for photo , brings back memories ( some very sleepy on those early morning cray runs after a couple night freight runs first ) . 6 years flying them , one missing RRM ! Good times !

[LKinnon]

Many times I've seen Tasfast or Vortex Air planes taxiing along the apron at speeds I thought were unsafe. There are four flying schools with many inexperienced student pilots using the same apron, as well as two fuel depots. It's just think it's not a good combination.

Other charter operators I've seen around the country seem to keep a tighter rein on (junior) pilots and it's left me with a poor opinion.

[4 Holer]

Gotta learn to set your alarm 5 mins before the next waypoint or TOD... Standard night freight pilot ops 101.hahahaha

[transition_alt]

Many times I've seen Tasfast or Vortex Air planes taxiing along the apron at speeds I thought were unsafe. There are four flying schools with many inexperienced student pilots using the same apron, as well as two fuel depots. It's just think it's not a good combination.

Other charter operators I've seen around the country seem to keep a tighter rein on (junior) pilots and it's left me with a poor opinion.

You must be a Soar aviation instructor who taxis at half a knot blocking the taxiways.
Relax, I’m making a joke.

[swells]

https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/483423-drug-alcohol-testing-cadetship-screening.html#post7150717

it looks like the airlines chose well

[YPJT]

swells, pure gold mate.
So tell us LKinnon why you believe someone, who by their own admission has a drug and alcohol problem, should be given any cred here?

[Back Pressure]

Over the years I can't say I've ever seen Vortex taxying at unsafe speeds. Sure, they don't dawdle, and neither does any other commercial op.

[porch monkey]

Hey swells, can't open the page anymore. I'm with you Toruk, 8 years there, got me where I am today. Good but hard times.....
4 Holer, obviously a little lacking in the tips and tricks department there these days.

Actually, got the page to open. Credibility 0.

[Squawk7700]

The link is misbehaving so I’m posting it again just in case others missed it.

Summary: LKinnon by his / her own admission is a ecstasy taking pot head, unless I have somehow misread the post.

Again, I hope that LKinnon is not part of your real name as you’ve said a lot of dumb crap here today.

http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/483423-drug-alcohol-testing-cadetship-screening.html#post7150717

[YPJT]

And just in case LKinnon thinks he can clean up his image and once again stand the moral high ground without fear of compromise. This is the text from the link above:

Drug and Alcohol Testing - Cadetship Screening I am about to apply for a cadetship with a major airline.
In the advertisement they mention "Drug and Alcohol Testing" as part of the screening process.
I am young and enjoy a few drinks with my mates on weekends, and on occasion drink enough that I can't stand up.
Most weekends I also smoke a bit of pot and maybe once a year will drop an Ecstasy tablet when I go out to a dance club.
What I plan to do is abstain from booze and pot for two weeks prior to the test so that nothing gets picked up.
Does anyone have experience with these Drug and Alcohol Tests?
Will two weeks of abstination be enough?
Luckily I don't need to abstain from sex ;-)

[ACMS]

Toruk Macto:——Did a few months on BRL RRM and EYF out of Welshpool around the traps as well.

Seems like yesterday.

[On eyre]

Just to clarify - the original post heading is incorrect. The pilot did not miss the landing. He just carried it out a little later than planned - that’s what reserve fuel is for. 😳😳😳

[john_tullamarine]

I have no knowledge of the operation so my comments are general.

For those who may think this is the first time a pilot has nodded off ... historically quite a common occurrence. I am aware of a few amusing incidents in like vein over the years. Shouldn't happen .. but, occasionally, it does. Probably the best tale involved a freighter with both the crew and the flight service guy nodding off ... when they eventually got back to where they were originally aimed (pre-radar days), there was a post flight discussion of sorts with a bit of amiable ducking and weaving on both sides ... Another beloved pilot had a squillion hours .. it was generally held that he really wasn't entitled to them as he was asleep for the great majority .. a few chuckling tales to be had from that career.

The sensible pilot, regardless of how alert he/she may be, puts strategies into place to guard against the problem, especially SP.

[Capt Fathom]

Apart from the issue of being asleep at the wheel, I think the pilot will be in a whole world of hurt when Avmed get involved. They will have to prove there is nothing wrong with them medically, and that is likely to be time consuming and expensive. :(

[YPJT]

Back in the 80s in my army years I was sitting RH seat in a Nomad doing low level ops for a couple of hrs. By the end the pilot was seriously nodding off.
Another anecdote I heard was of a pilot on a charter who let the pax in RH seat take over the controls and promptly dozed off. Woke up some distance past the destination.

[Lat3ralus]

I don't think many of us can say that you haven't come close to noding off in our GA days. What the atsb will need to figure out is was it due to the pilot not getting adequate due to personal reasons(young family, etc) or due to insufficient/inadequate rest provided by the company. I will not speculate on this company in particular, but it wouldn't be the first time a small ga company has had a culture of making duty times "fit" their needs.

[nonsense]

...What the atsb will need to figure out is was it due to the pilot not getting adequate due to personal reasons(young family, etc) or due to insufficient/inadequate rest provided by the company...
Or perhaps due to something like untreated sleep apnoea...

[Clinton McKenzie]

The poor bastard is in for the ‘the treatment’ from Avmed.

I’ve only once seen a crew member fall asleep. It was the PIC. I felt chuffed that he was relaxed enough to nod off with me in the right hand seat, technically unrated for the aircraft. I did reach for a couple of switches and controls to see if he was faking it.

Oh and by the way: He was a CASA FOI. (Note I said FOI, not ATO.)

[smiling monkey]

The poor bastard is in for the ‘the treatment’ from Avmed.

I’ve only once seen a crew member fall asleep. It was the PIC. I felt chuffed that he was relaxed enough to nod off with me in the right hand seat, technically unrated for the aircraft. I did reach for a couple of switches and controls to see if he was faking it.

Oh and by the way: He was a CASA FOI. (Note I said FOI, not ATO.)

Well, that's nothing new. I've heard a few stories of older generation ATOs falling asleep during flight tests and MECIR renewals.

[Alpha Whiskey Bravo]

Yes I have had a wonderful ATO fall asleep on me during an IFR renewal before. We were on top of 8/8ths in the sun and he was very quiet. I snuck a peek out from under the hood to find him resting his eyelids. I had to reduce power to descend for the ILS and he woke up suddenly and said, "Whoops I must have nodded off." to which I replied, "What? you missed that last ILS? that's the best one I have ever done!" He was very apologetic and said we will have to do it again until he realised I was giggling at him. Still passed though!

[John Eacott]

For sheer unadulterated boredom, ASW (anti submarine warfare) exercises in the Sea King come a close second to the 727 trans Tasman freight runs. Four hours of two pilots watching fully automated transition down to an auto hover where the sonar went down to ping for subs (& subsequently a coupled transition back up to cruise at nosebleed 200ft) would often result in at least one and sometimes both drivers doing some Egyptian PT, only to be rudely awakened when the back seat broke the silence on the intercom asking for a change of position. I’d sometimes read a spotters book of ships, but that just hastened the nap time.

Even more awkward when the back seat pair went quiet and all were woken by Mother coming over the radio.

[outnabout]

There is a post on FB from the guy who conducted his IPC -
the pilot had spent the previous weekend at the funeral of a close mate who had suicided.
he clocked in for work the previous night at 10pm, flew to Tassie, did non flying tasks (such s sorting freight), and fell into bed somewhere around 2am.
the bed is a communal single bed, in a noisy room lit by the nearby streetlight.

apparently the company are in disputes with the union regarding paying below award wages.

on another note, it is my experience that companies who don’t pay the award are also cutting corners on maintenance.

MeNwhile, down the road, an ethical operator who pays the award and follows the rules is slowly going to the wall because they can’t compete on the cheap prices offered by companies of this ilk.....as others say, it’s a race to the bottom.

[megan]

I’ve only once seen a crew member fall asleepIt's an event that happens, and will keep on recurring. C-130 PIC told of waking up to find his three other flight deck members had nodded off as well. Probably the most famous case was a DC-8 freighter flying from east coast USA to LAX, overflew LAX heading for Hawaii, three flight deck crew finally woken by the chimes ATC calling on SELCAL. Admit to it myself when the other chap was flying. I don't recall a similar situation with any other charter operator ever You need to get out more, though being a pot/drug head you wouldn't know what was real.

[compressor stall]

Plenty of GA colleagues used to fly with a digital watch tucked inside headset with alarm set to get off before top of descent.
I can’t remember the name of that so called aviation expert (not JT, some other ignorant numpty) quoted as saying that aviation fatigue rules are rigorous and it shouldn’t happen.
Well mr numpty, it’s been happening for decades. The only change is that this poor bloke was on ADSB etc and got caught out. Unfortunately the story got picked up internationally and isn’t a good luck for the industry.
Hopefully he survives CASA /AVMED. .

. I don't recall a similar situation with any other charter operator ever. you haven’t been around long have you?

[Fantome]

Those with memories of the ANA and Ansett/ANA days would know of the late Jason Hazzard. An FO who flew with Jason on the long haul to Perth told of his experience on the DC4 . Jason never gave away a take off or landing. He'd take off from Essendon, call "gear up, your aircraft". Then he'd reach up and turn the heater to full and go to sleep. If the FO so much as touched the heater control Jason would immediately, as in his sleep, reach up and put it back to full. The FO would get the clearances approaching Perth, join the circuit or be on a five mile final straight in. Jason would come to life, call "Gear down, my aircraft". "He was a tired man", said the then FO, recalling those distant days, and nights. Jason was also a big man. He declined a slot on the DC9 when they first came on line, preferring to wait for the B727, which better suited his bulk.

In an earlier century I did a stint with air ambulance. One night at around 0100, coming in with a medical emergency, I dropped off briefly just short of descent. The controller had raised his voice "Alpha Bravo Charlie - are you diverting ? " and then "do you read?" . I opened my eyes and saw that the autopilot had taken us off course (due to a fault) and shamelessly said "Oops. . .I was fiddling with the course director which seems to be playing up. . . all ok now". (Don't think I fooled anyone.)

[4 Holer]

Take it easy leave the young guys alone, give them a go like we were given... just give the pilot that fell asleep a warning and a fireside chat and get on with it he won't do it again. RELAX we have all seen and done it before.

[megan]

Pprune has many bitter old has-beens who never wereWhen you have your name in aviation history books get back to us whipper snapper. Folks here have experiences you will never match, despite your aviation career taking off. AVMED is aware of your drug habits I presume, and you comply with CASA's requirements?
For certain applicants, routine periodic urinalysis (or other tests) for substance use is a requirement of continued medical certification. It is medico-legally essential that such testing be performed in accordance with the specified protocol, as determined by CASA for the individual applicant.It is essential that the test substrate is appropriate to the substance(s) under investigation for example blood, urine or hair. Please seek advice from CASA.One of the features of addiction related behaviour is denial. To promote recovery, openness and transparency is required involving the applicant, the regulator (CASA and DAME) and the operator. Delays in provision of required tests, adulteration of specimens and concealment of use all suggest stabilised abstinence has not been achieved. DAMES are encouraged to promote an open discussion between all parties about the proposed surveillance and the importance of compliance. CASA will usually seek the applicant's consent to share medical information openly between the applicant, company medical advisers, union and relevant medical specialists. This facilitates a faster return to work together with a greater opportunity for workplace support in recovery. Relevant sources of advice and assistance include:

Australasian Medical Review Officers Association (http://amroa.org.au) (AMROA)
Human Interventions and Motivation Study (http://www.hims.org.au) (HIMS Australia)
FAChAMs (list is available on the The Royal Australasian College of Physicians (https://www.racp.edu.au/) (RACP) website).

Note: DAMEs should view with concern any delays or other failure to comply with testing and surveillance requirements. CASA should be notified of such concerns as soon as practicable.

[Cloudee]

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fprofile_images%2F5870852511 10809601%2FYqkixcTV.jpg&f=1

Haha. Leo W**ker, one of Hoge’s best characters, and very appropriate on this thread.

[Toruk Macto]

Being tired or fatigued are two reasons pilots fall asleep , sitting next to a dick runs a close third !

[Fantome]

Spot on! Come home pissed off and listless. "Oh no! You haven't got 'so far up himself' for another month? " (List all the 'god's gift to aviation' you have had to endure.)

An unforgettable moment on a four hour sector - Sue brings up coffee for the caffeine starved drivers. FO Murray sits there preening himself as usual. Sue - "I've been meaning to tell you Murray - that women find you irresistible " Murray - "You think so?" Sue - Of course - but how did youfind out?"

A certain Peter comes into the aforementioned category. His surname led to derisive alternative versions . The horror of it all was brought home when his airline marketing freaks decided to put his face up enlarged 100 times on a hoarding on a six-story hotel on the city approaches.

[Seewonder]

hxxps://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2018/aair/ao-2018-075/

(Unable to post URL links just yet, replace the xx to to tt to make https)

After landing at King Island, the pilot continued with their shift flying to Moorabbin without obtaining additional rest.

Interesting statement. Was judgement and common sense influenced by this fatigue as well? It feels a basic duty of care is completely missing here!

Any idea what sort of duty or exemption this was operated under? ATSB seem to have left out a few things in the report regarding sign on/sign off times and what the previous 48-72 hours actually entailed for the individual/roster.

Curiously as well, in this example would the checking of NAIPS say at home (Before a tour of duty has even commenced) count as duty or not? A log in would be recorded with a date and time stamp plus what briefing/s have been requested.

[Fantome]

Channel 9 news today - (Neither breaking news or put together by a plane spotter)



A freight pilot who fell asleep at the controls on a flight to King Island and was unable to be reached by radio, had been awake for 24 hours.
The pilot, who was the only person on board, started to feel tired after leaving Devonport and quickly fell asleep while the plane was on autopilot, overshooting the destination by 78 kilometres.
The Piper PA-31 aircraft later landed without incident and the pilot then flew from King Island to Melbourne to complete his shift.



https://imageresizer.static9.net.au/bA09HcX62hIyKrDMo0ARhWTeWNg=/500x0/smart/http%3A%2F%2Fprod.static9.net.au%2F_%2Fmedia%2F2018%2F11%2F2 8%2F12%2F28%2Fpiperinside.jpg

The Piper PA-31 was the model of aircraft involved in the incident. (Supplied)The Australian Transport Safety Bureau on Tuesday published a report into the flight on November 8 last year, finding the pilot had been awake for about 24 hours after being unable to sleep prior to take off.
The pilot's fatigue was at a level known to affect performance and even if the pilot had been able to sleep before the flight, he still would have been fatigued, the report said.
"This investigation highlights the need for pilots to assess their level of fatigue before and during their flight," the ATSB's Nat Nagy said.
"Before commencing night operations pilots are encouraged to modify their usual sleep routines to ensure they are adequately rested.

[machtuk]

Who hasn't fallen asleep asleep under similar circumstances? Kinda show commercial pressure is still alive & well despite our wonderful FRM that kinda exists!

[Cloudee]

Eight months to write a report stating the bleeding obvious that you will be very tired after 24 hrs without sleep.
Amazing the pilot continued onto Moorabbin without further rest.

[Stationair8]

If you snooze, you lose!

[gretzky99]

I’ve only had a chance to read what’s been posted here. Fantome’s news article makes mention of the pilot 8 times, and the operator..... zero. Would that be an accurate summary of the report?

[Okihara]

Again, same thing. Poor fellow, made a mistake and getting hammered for it when nobody got harmed. I don't understand what it is that we're after here. As of 2019 it should be a well documented fact that humans are prone to make mistakes, esp. when fatigued. Another well documented fact in modern times is that humans are known to not always make rational decisions, a trait magnified by fatigue, alcohol, drugs, emotional stress, or any combination of those in any amount.

However it is not as well documented and understood a fact, in my view, that specific individuals of said species will always receive disproportionately much media attention when making silly mistakes such as the above at the command of an aircraft as opposed to, say, when driving a car, making important business decisions, choosing their life partner, surfing in shark infested waters or electing the ruling party in this country.

Seriously: why is that? Let's cut that pilot some slack. I'm sure the fact that they woke up alive at all served enough as a lesson.

[empty_seats]

Pilot who fell asleep at controls was allowed to continue his shift

theaustralian.com.au

A pilot who fell asleep while operating a cargo flight in Tasmania had been awake for 24-hours prior to the incident.

An Australian Transport Safety Bureau report into the incident, which occurred on November 8 last year, found the pilot was “acutely fatigued to a level affecting performance”.

Despite his lack of sleep, the pilot flew from Moorabbin in Victoria to Devonport, Tasmania, had a three-hour break, then headed off again to fly to King Island.

During the flight he nodded off, waking up to find he was almost 80km past his destination.

From 7.25am to 7.33am, air traffic control tried to contact the pilot without a response.

The ATSB report said at 7.33am a transmission was received from the pilot who advised that operations were normal.

He landed the Piper PA-31 at King Island at 7.55am and contacted his supervisor and air traffic control in Melbourne to discuss what happened.

Despite the in-flight nap, the pilot was allowed to finish his shift, flying from King Island back to Moorabbin.

The ATSB investigation found the pilot recalled not feeling fatigued before the morning flight which was his first after five days off.

During the three hour break at Devonport, the pilot said he rested but didn’t sleep.

“From the information reported by the pilot, it was determined that at the time of the occurrence, the pilot had been awake for about 24-hours,” said the report.

“Using the information obtained at interview and the pilot’s roster, fatigue analysis was conducted, which identified that the pilot was acutely fatigues to a level known to affect performance.”

The report took aim at operator, Vortex Air, pointing out that “despite knowing the circumstances of the incident, no measures were put in place to ensure the pilot was fit to continue the shift”.

“This resulted in the pilot continuing to fly the aircraft while still being fatigued to a level known to affect performance,” said the report.

Vortex Air managing director Colin Tucker said he spoke to the pilot on the ground that morning, and he assured him he was fine to fly.

He described the incident as a “tiny blip” that had caused considerable damage to the company despite its “exemplary safety record”.

“We’ve been flying for 15-years and it damages your brand. It’s a competitive air space we fly in,” Mr Tucker said.

He said the pilot was badly affected by publicity surrounding the incident but had returned to flying and was doing well.

“If you’ve been on leave for five days before a shift, there’s nothing as an organisation we could’ve done,” said Mr Tucker, adding the pilot was aware of his roster before he went on leave.

Changes had since been made to the rostering system to provide more notice for pilots but Mr Tucker said occasionally last minute changes were necessary.

"exemplary safety record" as in like Qantas? :hmm:

[compressor stall]

Well he was rested before he continued his shift as he'd just had a good nap....

[Cloudee]

Well he was rested before he continued his shift as he'd just had a good nap....
Interesting operator who would allow the pilot to continue on to Moorabbin after an incident like this.

[compressor stall]

Why was there no examination on the rest facility at DPO? Was it actually conducive to sleep? Definitely an odd decision not to bunk down for an hour or two at that time of night.

[Stickshift3000]

Well he was rested before he continued his shift as he'd just had a good nap....

Too true!! :E

[ifylofd]

I recall back in the day the crusty old ATO that turned up for my Grade 3 instructors rating test, me s%^ting bricks for a week prior.
After the chalk and talk I took him out and diligently showed him my mighty 172. Off we went, somewhere down the lane of entry he fell asleep the first time. What to do - wake him or let him snooze?
I let him go till the training area, then did the old gentle elbow.
His eyes tight shut during most of the sequences. Funny as all get out now I think about it. (and yes a snooze on the way home)

Not sure why anyone surprised at a driver (back on topic) falling asleep for a bit. Give back of the clock night freight a go - all around a day job and studies and see how long it is before you (hopefully) wake up at the wheel....

[Sunfish]

Blame the victim again....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-26/expert-condemns-lack-of-action-against-pilot-who-fell-asleep/11245466

[AnyGivenSunday99]

Blame the victim again....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-26/expert-condemns-lack-of-action-against-pilot-who-fell-asleep/11245466

the same aviation “expert” that claimed the recent 737 crashes were not a fault with the aircraft....

[Lookleft]

the same aviation “expert” that claimed the recent 737 crashes were not a fault with the aircraft....

He also doesn't understand the role of the ATSB, they have no power to fine or take action against anyone. CASA have been dragging the chain on fatigue rules for years so why not blame them?

[john_tullamarine]

the same aviation “expert”

Putting to one side the possibility of misreporting ... I haven't spoken with Neil for many years, don't know if he has any/significant pilot experience, but he is a well-experienced maintainer/regulatory chap so not entirely without expertise.

[rich34glider]

Surely a "pilot-in-command" has some responsibility for .... being in a state fit to fly?

[junior.VH-LFA]

No sleep in 24 hours despite not working within five days, landing at YKII and then making the decision to continue working.

“If you’ve been on leave for five days before a shift, there’s nothing as an organisation we could’ve done,” said Mr Tucker, adding the pilot was aware of his roster before he went on leave.

And you see no responsibility with the pilot at all? In this example is there really anyway to actually blame anyone else other than the PIC, or is this just a default setting for you? What length will you not go to to bear a grudge with CASA or the ATSB??

Everyone makes mistakes, and I bet he's a better pilot because of it. Does that somehow mean the blame lies somewhere else? We all have to take responsibility for what we could have done better.

[Sunfish]

LFA, study the double bind problem. Does the pilot want to keep their job or fly safely?

“Double binds are often utilized as a form of control without open coercion—the use of confusion makes them both difficult to respond to as well as to resist.[2] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind#cite_note-ecology-2):271-278.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind

[compressor stall]

the same aviation “expert”

Putting to one side the possibility of misreporting ... I haven't spoken with Neil for many years, don't know if he has any/significant pilot experience, but he is a well-experienced maintainer/regulatory chap so not entirely without expertise.

John, I have significant pilot expertise, but sure as hell wouldn't hold myself to be an expert on things maintenance nor regulatory. In my opinion, oxygen thieving aviation commentators are just after column inches, to hell with accuracy. All the while aided and abetted by ignorant journos who make news out of the fact that an aviation expert [sic] made such and such comments, rather than do any investigative journalism themselves.

[john_tullamarine]

'twas an observation, only. Like you, I prefer that folks stay in their areas of discipline competence when pontificating ... (not always that easy unless stone cold sober, of course ..)

[Hamley]

I
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1232x486/a8853b0e_4cfd_44bf_aa4a_ddd502fc2aec_e19571beec6f0eb8243a0e0 74aba9c14ea1ad665.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/940x269/41fc69df_1093_42fa_93c0_26ace2c58658_ecb7c74031016efab48855d cc53850224f1d14de.jpeg
​​​​Like it or not your and your employer’s responsibilities regarding this type of situation are described very clearly.

Seems to me if the pilot had fallen asleep on a previous sector due to lack of sleep both the pilot and the operator should have ‘reason to believe’ the pilot’s fatigue will affect subsequent flights.

Both pilot and operator seem to have failed in their responsibilities under CAO 48.1

[Toruk Macto]

Half the planes flying around the world on back of the clock , red eye ops have sleepy , tired or fatigued crew up the front . Airlines pushing FTL’s right to the limit , reducing crew numbers combined with less experienced pilots all adding to the army of pilots trying to stay awake . I was doing a red eye recently and other pilot asleep under a legal controlled rest procedure . I’m staying quite lights low headset on staring into the darkness trying to keep alert . Reminded of the promair days but instead of 300 crays behind me I got 300 pax .
Fatigue is a huge issue at all levels and can’t just say it’s legal and it will be ok !

[machtuk]

Half the planes flying around the world on back of the clock , red eye ops have sleepy , tired or fatigued crew up the front . Airlines pushing FTL’s right to the limit , reducing crew numbers combined with less experienced pilots all adding to the army of pilots trying to stay awake . I was doing a red eye recently and other pilot asleep under a legal controlled rest procedure . I’m staying quite lights low headset on staring into the darkness trying to keep alert . Reminded of the promair days but instead of 300 crays behind me I got 300 pax .
Fatigue is a huge issue at all levels and can’t just say it’s legal and it will be ok !

Very true. Fatigue will NEVER be addressed fully, we are humans not machines therefore we have a brain that is effected y just about everything known to mankind. The biggest fatigue issue I believe is commercial pressure, it's very real & that too has a cumulative effect like the lack of sleep itself. Min rest periods (9 or 10 hrs or whatever you DON'T get those hours as rest), max duty hrs and a forever changing roster all means the holes in the cheese are just waiting to be lined up!
Glad I am all but out of that these days, I made it thru the dodgem course unscathed....phew!

[Global Aviator]

Ya gotta feel for the bloke no matter what. How many of us here can honesty say they have never had an unplanned cat nap, micro sleep, he’ll sleep even.

Single pilot freight ops, night, probably one of the toughest gigs out there. Remember the ole can’t remember the operator, but days single pilot METRO night freight. Hmm there have been a couple of Cessna 210’s land unplanned due to issues like this. They have been around since we started pushing limits. As a previous poster pointed out FTL are seen as hard limits and operators want to get as much out of a driver as possible.

Back of the clock flying I used to enjoy when I had a roster full of it, one could get used to it. Rostering where it chops and changes is just wrong. Problem is that again we are our own worst enemy as if reports are not constantly filled then what will happen? Pilots seem reluctant to file fatigue reports/ tiredness related reports. Management (especially ex Pilots) seem to forget how demanding this flying can be.

All of us who came through GA probably have an inkling to the real big picture in this case.

Stay awake out there....... Tripple espresso please.

[compressor stall]

You just reminded me in the early noughties, I seem to recall there was a night freight C210 heading south from Darwin, pilot fell asleep, woke up out of range of navaids (no GPS) and that landed not far from the rock on a salt pan at dawn?

[Centaurus]

A lot of pilots would have fallen asleep briefly especially in these sorts of Ops where it's an early morning dep & that drone in smooth air would dull ones senses at times, fatigue is a hideous thing, ALL humans suffer from it!

Amen to that. In another era we flew Lincoln bombers on shipping surveillance Darwin to Townsville via Horn island then followed the coast between 10-50 miles out to sea from Horn island to Townsville. The last 50 miles or so took us on direct track over Palm Island. Total flight time around 8-10 hours depending on ships spotted.

We left Darwin around 2200 with ETA Townsville at sunrise. The crew consisted of two pilots, a navigator and three signallers. I put the co-pilot in the left seat for the last hour or so while I took a much needed nap down the back of the Lincoln leaning against the main spar and using my parachute as a pillow. A sixth sense woke me up with a startle and scrambling to my feet, I headed to the cockpit. There I saw both the radio operator and navigator fast asleep, heads resting on their tables. The co-pilot in the left seat was also slumped asleep with the aircraft on autopilot.

We were IMC at 1500 feet in low cloud and the morning sun was starting to poke through the mist. The co-pilot dicky seat was folded against the fuselage wall so I couldn’t take a seat. From a standing position I shoved the four engines to climb power and pulled back on the copilots control column and shook the co-pilot awake. Within a few seconds we came out on top of cloud at 2000 ft into the bright sunlight. Dead ahead on track by about ten miles was Palm Island.

If that sixth sense had not awakened me we would have likely flown into Palm Island 300 feet below its peak.

[lucille]

I’d be surprised if anyone who has flown long haul crossing more than 5 time zones with min rest between duty periods hasn’t had the overwhelming urge to nod off by the third duty day.
Fatigue is cumulative, rest unfortunately is not .

[Okihara]

Wow, what a story. I hope you never had to make use of that sixth sense ever again though.
Is there no "dead-man switch" that one can activate which would sound an alarm to prevent falling asleep unless deactivated every X minutes?
The very reason why such a device may be used could indeed indicate that the crew themselves believe they may need need it, therefore suggesting that a chance of fatigue exists which in turn would be contravening to their obligations under CAO 48.1.

[Squawk7700]

Wow, what a story. I hope you never had to make use of that sixth sense ever again though.
Is there no "dead-man switch" that one can activate which would sound an alarm to prevent falling asleep unless deactivated every X minutes?

They have that on the Indian Pacific trains.

Smart pilots set their iPhone alarm.

[DeRated]

Smart pilots set their iPhone alarm.


You reckon someone flying for this mob can afford an iPhone......?

I did night freight from Hobart via Launceston and Devonport to Essendon in the late 70's in the same type.

We tried renting a bed in North Essendon for the six hour stopover but taxi time, cold bed, taxi time - a sleep in the empty aeroplane was better.

[Loulou92]

Sorry for my ignorance. If you're flying a multi crew aircraft and one of the pilots falls asleep during a non critical phase of flight, do they just get left alone for a bit? Or woken straight up?

[Checkboard]

Normally left alone for a bit. Those 20 winks will probably help come landing time.

[KRviator]

Normally left alone for a bit. Those 20 winks will probably help come landing time.Same on the rail network. If someone dozes off during loading, or even uptrack but you're wide awake and have things under control, a 15min kip is more of safety benefit than having a dead-tired Coey...