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View Full Version : mess at SYD today due to winds


BNEA320
23rd Nov 2018, 00:55
so there are surely lots of flights out of SYD today that will be cancelled due to only 1 active runway.

Surely all Rex, some Qantaslink(Dash 8-100, -200, -300s), some ATRs & any smaller domestic aircraft should be moved to Bankstown today. Buses could run between airports(takes roughly 40 mins). Not ideal, but must be better than getting stuck at SYD all day, with chance of not going anywhere ?

Don't think security would be required for any of above.

For a start look at routes that say Rex & Qantas fly. By working together these 2 airlines could get people where they wanted to go much faster which is the name of the game.

Dubbo & Albury come to mind.

eg. Qantas could take Rex pax to SYD who have connections. Rex could take Qantas pax to Bankstown who don't have connections at SYD. Some might actually prefer to go to Bankstown as might be closer to where they are heading.

SYD curfew will surely mean many flights won't be able to take off before 2300 & so will be cancelled otherwise.

morno
23rd Nov 2018, 01:03
And where are you getting the ground handling equipment? And the required terminal space? And the list goes on.....

What a stupid idea. Logistically impossible for one day.

BNEA320
23rd Nov 2018, 01:13
And where are you getting the ground handling equipment? And the required terminal space? And the list goes on.....

What a stupid idea. Logistically impossible for one day.



no, should be planning ahead for days like today. Everyone knew long before SYD opened today that it was going to be very windy.

Think there is some ground handling equipment at Bankstown already. QF dash 8s have landed at Bankstown before.

Baggage handling ?

Much of that could be done by passengers. They could carry their own luggage to aircraft.

There's a small terminal at Bankstown.

Am sure a few food/drink trucks could easily be organised.FFS Qantas could organise this easily.

When Sydney west opens in 2026/2029 surely some of the eg. DBO/SYD & ABX/SYD flights will be going to Sydney west instead of all going to SYD.

Capt Fathom
23rd Nov 2018, 01:24
Get yourself out to Bankstown BNEA320 and let us know when you're ready for the first Dash! :}

morno
23rd Nov 2018, 02:00
The cost of doing it would probably outweigh the cost of cancelling flights.

onehitwonder
23rd Nov 2018, 02:05
Legislation champ, Bankstown isnt approved for RPT (due to fencing)......has an exemption to operate for diversions - thats it!

BNEA320
23rd Nov 2018, 02:17
The cost of doing it would probably outweigh the cost of cancelling flights.

Cost ? Minimal compared to disruption to passengers. Some will have to be accommodated at Syd hotels.

BNEA320
23rd Nov 2018, 02:19
Legislation champ, Bankstown isnt approved for RPT (due to fencing)......has an exemption to operate for diversions - thats it!don't think that's correct. I read somewhere where they have approval for 12 RPT flights a day + plenty of flights into SYD could be diverted to Bankstown. eg. Rex & some Dash 8s. DO Virgin have any ATR 42s or are they all 72s ?

Atlas Shrugged
23rd Nov 2018, 02:24
FFS

This is the most moronic idea I've ever heard.....ever!

bangbounceboeing
23rd Nov 2018, 03:22
FFS

This is the most moronic idea I've ever heard.....ever!
what else would you expect from the original poster, he or she should stick to the spotters forum.

cLeArIcE
23rd Nov 2018, 04:50
"Err,ah Bankstown Tower, Qlink 54D Prospect 1500 inbound"
"Qlink 54D follow the 152 turning downwind Rwy 29C" :uhoh:

Unfortunately, nothing will ever stop this from happening a few times a year. One day I might be able to pull off a RWY 25 Landing that doesn't require a maintenance inspection :E

However while we are on the topic..... if someone (anyone) could build some sort of runway in Melbourne to stop this from happening every second day I would much appropriate it!

wishiwasupthere
23rd Nov 2018, 05:04
This clown again....

BNEA320
23rd Nov 2018, 05:07
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/313x193/qf_at_bankstown_2fd2cb632fdd4119cd4c91a9b480443dd89755e8.jpg

BNEA320
23rd Nov 2018, 05:09
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/661x401/qf_at_bankstown_2_1bc37ea7e5d6ae34b900cb9c42083a50cbeb07e8.j pg

yep that's Bankstown (2013)

Capt Fathom
23rd Nov 2018, 05:25
And here is a story (http://australianaviation.com.au/2013/06/bankstown-regional-operations-impossible-raaa/) that goes with that photo!

machtuk
23rd Nov 2018, 06:14
I enjoy these stories, let the guy continue to entertain us:-)

*Lancer*
23rd Nov 2018, 06:22
Using 25 and 34L/R would be a much better idea than using Bankstown.

YPJT
23rd Nov 2018, 07:12
Was wondering where the Brisbane Skybus moron had been. Clearly hasn't been taking his / her meds again.

unexplained blip
23rd Nov 2018, 07:17
One QF A380 took off to the North this arvo but that's all I saw that way b/w 1pm and 3.30pm. Some QF Thursday pm SYD-MEL pax now looking at Sat afternoon and Sun morning departures. (this SLF included). Rumour has it that VA is as late as Monday. Most SYD customer service staff seem shattered .... a hard couple of days and not over yet.

maggot
23rd Nov 2018, 07:20
Using 25 and 34L/R would be a much better idea than using Bankstown.

Yeah but that's 4 kts more xwind (and, more likely a sequence nightmare) can not lah!


For the OP, the problems were caused by more than wind in syd

Ken Borough
23rd Nov 2018, 07:22
London Gatwick is a single runway airport. It can handle 55 movements an hour. Does Sydney achieve anything like that when 25 is in use? I do note however that there were a handful of departures this morning from 34L.

Glorified Dus Briver
23rd Nov 2018, 07:58
One QF A380 took off to the North this arvo but that's all I saw that way b/w 1pm and 3.30pm. Some QF Thursday pm SYD-MEL pax now looking at Sat afternoon and Sun morning departures. (this SLF included). Rumour has it that VA is as late as Monday. Most SYD customer service staff seem shattered .... a hard couple of days and not over yet.

KAL 380 was told to taxi to A6 and slotted in at #10 for departures. Was a good 20mins before they were given clearance for take-off from 34L.

Icarus2001
23rd Nov 2018, 08:32
London Gatwick is a single runway airport. It can handle 55 movements an hour. Does Sydney achieve anything like that when 25 is in use? No because we know better in Australia. In their defence not many turboprops at Gatwick but even so they know how to move aeroplanes.

Buswinker
23rd Nov 2018, 09:02
Surely badgerys creek will solve all of these problems...

(runs for cover!!!)

macbe327
23rd Nov 2018, 10:08
KAL 380 was told to taxi to A6 and slotted in at #10 for departures. Was a good 20mins before they were given clearance for take-off from 34L.
yep just because you require 34L doesnít mean you jump the queue. Think I was doing Tower when they left. Pretty sure number 10 was just an estimate (guess) but 1 departure slot between each arrival means a departure every 2 min so 20min wait sounds about right.

Id say we do at least 50 an hour on 25 only which is not bad for no rapid exits.

itsnotthatbloodyhard
23rd Nov 2018, 23:31
I saw a 747 land at Albion Park a while back, so we should probably send some internationals there when Sydney gets too busy. Iím sure someone from Port Kembla could drive over and deal with customs and quarantine, and the HARS people could lend their stairs and help with the bags. Why arenít we doing this already?

missy
24th Nov 2018, 12:27
London Gatwick is a single runway airport. It can handle 55 movements an hour. Does Sydney achieve anything like that when 25 is in use? I do note however that there were a handful of departures this morning from 34L.
Yes Ken Sydney does achieve low 50's movement rates when single runway operations is nominated. As you say there are a handful of 34L departures and these complicate things and result in a LOWER overall movement rate (as these aircraft need to cross RWY 25 on their taxi for DEP and then again on their DEP, and as these aircraft are HEAVY or SUPER then then is likely to be a further wake turbulence delay for the next RWY 25 DEP).
Comparing LGW and SYD is rather unfair as LGW has RET and terminals away from the runway and LGW have a more routine and regular flow of traffic. That is, LGW regularly do 55 per hour whereas SYD typically will do up to 45 arrivals on 34 parallels leading into a single runway, so there are a backlog of DEP (the arrivals that have already landed). SYD starts behind the 8-ball and then struggles through. Simple maths really.

Ascend Charlie
24th Nov 2018, 19:57
Ah, but if they had a CIRCULAR runway, all the problems would be fixed! Well, according to the website, anyway...

By George
24th Nov 2018, 22:45
My 'nearest and dearest' gets back this afternoon having been cancelled four times over four days, all on a full-fare ticket. (I am currently tidying up the house). No fault of the Airline but proof if any is needed that SYD is 'broken'.

Badgerys Creek needs to have two parallel Runways North and South and two Runways East and West. All need to be at least 10,000ft long with high speed exits., All Runways should then have have Cat3 ILS and a five mile exclusion zone free of development and no curfew. I have a feeling all we will achieve is moving the current problem further West as the whole Country is 'broken'. India has better Airports than we do.

777Nine
25th Nov 2018, 02:57
My 'nearest and dearest' gets back this afternoon having been cancelled four times over four days, all on a full-fare ticket. (I am currently tidying up the house). No fault of the Airline but proof if any is needed that SYD is 'broken'.

Badgerys Creek needs to have two parallel Runways North and South and two Runways East and West. All need to be at least 10,000ft long with high speed exits., All Runways should then have have Cat3 ILS and a five mile exclusion zone free of development and no curfew. I have a feeling all we will achieve is moving the current problem further West as the whole Country is 'broken'. India has better Airports than we do.

But what can be done? No self-serving politician would ever dare to mess with Sydney airport as it would be political suicide. Why is everything in Sydney so difficult..

​​​

Chris2303
25th Nov 2018, 04:01
But what can be done? No self-serving politician would ever dare to mess with Sydney airport as it would be political suicide. Why is everything in Sydney so difficult..

​​​

Speaking from the East Island I'd say it isn't just Sydney or Australia, although you guys seem to do it better than most. I'd say it is an Antipodean disease that means we can't think ahead and we tend to plan for what is now, not what is to come.

Auckland Airport is a great example at playing catch-up therefore they never will unless they meet a traffic slowdown whilst they are frantically building for traffic that they perceive is increasing.

With regard to single runway operation I have just retired from 7 years in a reservations unit and I've never seen so much RWY 25 usage as there has been recently. I admit that I was tempted once to tell a caller that was complaining about the mess that it was Aussie shortsightedness that is causing the disruption.

One wonders if the increase in strong westerlies is part of strange trends in worldwide weather - I hesitate to call it climate change.

megan
25th Nov 2018, 05:02
My 'nearest and dearest' gets back this afternoon having been cancelled four times over four days, all on a full-fare ticketSave the fuss, go by bus (or train). :p

What The
25th Nov 2018, 05:27
I canít understand why the pilots wonít operate the aircraft to certified limits. Practice makes perfect and all that.

Capt Fathom
25th Nov 2018, 05:34
I canít understand why the pilots wonít operate the aircraft to certified limits. Practice makes perfect and all that.
You'll have to explain that one! What do you mean?

neville_nobody
25th Nov 2018, 06:31
If he is referring to crosswind limit it is actually ATC limiting the runways not pilots. 10 years ago if you had a 30+ knot westerly you could tell ATC you could accept 34/16 for arrival and they would slot people in and it increased the flow. Then someone in Airservices decided to stop the practice and forced everyone onto 25 eventhough people were requesting 34/16 and happy to take the crosswind. An explanation was given on PPrune at some stage but I dont recall what it was.

ozziekiwi
25th Nov 2018, 06:48
Speaking from the East Island I'd say it isn't just Sydney or Australia, although you guys seem to do it better than most. I'd say it is an Antipodean disease that means we can't think ahead and we tend to plan for what is now, not what is to come.

Auckland Airport is a great example at playing catch-up therefore they never will unless they meet a traffic slowdown whilst they are frantically building for traffic that they perceive is increasing.

With regard to single runway operation I have just retired from 7 years in a reservations unit and I've never seen so much RWY 25 usage as there has been recently. I admit that I was tempted once to tell a caller that was complaining about the mess that it was Aussie shortsightedness that is causing the disruption.

One wonders if the increase in strong westerlies is part of strange trends in worldwide weather - I hesitate to call it climate change.

Where is runway 25 in AKL ?????

George Glass
25th Nov 2018, 07:36
Sydney Airport is a piece of cr#p. Thats all you need to know. Fifty years of political incompetence and corruption,bureaucratic stupidity and short-sightedness. A national embarrassment . And its not getting better anytime soon. Days like the other day make me thank the deities that I am close to retirement. A disgrace.

Bula
25th Nov 2018, 12:19
Why wonít Aussie ATC let me fly to my limits!!!! Oh the humanity!

601
25th Nov 2018, 12:35
we tend to plan for what is now, not what is to come.

Not any more, they plan for the next doorstop at which the plan is dropped and another one announced.

Kranz
26th Nov 2018, 01:44
Nah, no issue with the wind mate, just divert to HMAS Nirimba.

Chris2303
26th Nov 2018, 06:58
Where is runway 25 in AKL ?????

Read the rest of the paragraph which clearly shows that I was discussing Sydney

hiltonbaby
26th Nov 2018, 09:47
I require 34L/34R or 16L/16R that's all it takes. .... require it and it happens.. simples. You have no idea of the simple rules ATC have to follow. 20Kt x/wind means swap ends/sides.. no choice again...simples.. Yes we know its BS but thats how it goes. It's not an option.

Capt Fathom
26th Nov 2018, 09:58
I require 34L/34R or 16L/16R that's all it takes. .... require it and it happens.. simples.
Good for you. Why didn’t the rest of us think of that!! :rolleyes:

neville_nobody
27th Nov 2018, 00:48
Why won’t Aussie ATC let me fly to my limits!!!! Oh the humanity!


Well I'm sure if ASA management bonuses were affected by the holding fuel bill, 16/34 would have been available all day long, guaranteed.

One of the big reasons that aviation is so inefficient in this country is that the service providers are not financially affected by their policies or lack of infrastructure. In the case of airports they financially benefit from greater inefficiency. Basically a airports owners dream is to be at gridlock 24 hours a day. More money spent in terminals, higher car parking returns, more from gate charges etc etc

BNEA320
27th Nov 2018, 01:07
And here is a story (http://australianaviation.com.au/2013/06/bankstown-regional-operations-impossible-raaa/) that goes with that photo!

don't think story is strictly correct

it states ..........

"its runways are too short for regional airliners such as the Saab 340 and Metro series to takeoff at maximum weights, even on a cold day, thus limiting aircraft range and/or revenue payloads."

Really ?

Can understand why RAAA is against Bankstown being used for commercial ops, but think that would mostly be about feed & any airline that did might lose some revenue.

OK, the All Blacks with average weight of 120kgs & with 23kgs of luggage x 34 or 36 might not work, but a normal mix of passengers with less baggage should be able to work, except on very long sectors. Can't imagine Albury or Dubbo being an issue.

Skeleton
27th Nov 2018, 07:56
Why are you still here? You have been given numerous reasons why your silly idea is a total non starter.

Nulli Secundus
27th Nov 2018, 07:56
BNEA320 raises a good idea and granted, it can't happen 'today', it should be discussed without attacking the messenger.

London City, circa 1500m & a single runway at that, does a magnificent job with less hardstand than Bankstown. Why? Because they want to. They need to. But so do we. With a city population of around 5 million our single RPT hub goes up against London's 5 major city airports for their approx. 9 million people. In fact if you choose to call yourself Sydney Metro Airport, how's about getting into the 21st century and delivering a world class feeder secondary airport that makes traveling to or from Sydney a market leading experience. Its high time the common-wealth of the nation was regarded as just that, and infrastructure assets such as capital city secondary airports were made to participate in an integrated air transport system. The government of the day must bring on board the current consortium of owners to either develop or get out. A very fast rail link from Mascot to Bankstown to the new Badgery's Creek airport will mean a somewhat future-proofed aviation system of which we can be proud.

If you ever wondered why this country rarely gets out of first gear, despite its good fortune, there are defeatists' from the early stages of this thread that may help you identify the cause.

maggot
27th Nov 2018, 09:15
Of course it's different, opposite really. Mascot is the city airport - where the money is - more like London City
Money talks

wheels_down
27th Nov 2018, 09:46
Well tomorrow is going to be fun.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/two-months-rain-in-one-day-torrential-rain-forecast-for-sydney-wollongong/news-story/b3f0e265e2e618fe9ad49032792a7195

morno
27th Nov 2018, 11:13
BNEA320 raises a good idea and granted, it can't happen 'today', it should be discussed without attacking the messenger.

London City, circa 1500m & a single runway at that, does a magnificent job with less hardstand than Bankstown. Why? Because they want to. They need to. But so do we. With a city population of around 5 million our single RPT hub goes up against London's 5 major city airports for their approx. 9 million people. In fact if you choose to call yourself Sydney Metro Airport, how's about getting into the 21st century and delivering a world class feeder secondary airport that makes traveling to or from Sydney a market leading experience. Its high time the common-wealth of the nation was regarded as just that, and infrastructure assets such as capital city secondary airports were made to participate in an integrated air transport system. The government of the day must bring on board the current consortium of owners to either develop or get out. A very fast rail link from Mascot to Bankstown to the new Badgery's Creek airport will mean a somewhat future-proofed aviation system of which we can be proud.

If you ever wondered why this country rarely gets out of first gear, despite its good fortune, there are defeatists' from the early stages of this thread that may help you identify the cause.

Youíre probably right. But - both parties of government are more interested in passing the buck and the airports are leased to consortiums who are more interested in shopping centres or real estate.

harrryw
27th Nov 2018, 11:55
There is no reason passenger handling, security can not be done at Mascot with the passengers being bussed in secured busses direct to the airside at Bankskstown. It should enable some flights with smaller aircraft to be handled from there meaning cash flow and some happier passengers. It does not mean everything can be done that way but a little may help.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was
27th Nov 2018, 13:54
There is no reason chance passenger handling, security can not could be done at Mascot with the passengers being bussed in secured busses direct to the airside at Bankskstown.
Fixed that for you.

missy
27th Nov 2018, 14:29
Well tomorrow is going to be fun.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/two-months-rain-in-one-day-torrential-rain-forecast-for-sydney-wollongong/news-story/b3f0e265e2e618fe9ad49032792a7195
Indeed, if its IMC RWY 07 only then the movement rate will be much LOWER than VMC RWY 25 only. Carnage.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was
27th Nov 2018, 15:00
You can't really compare London's 5 airports with Sydney. Completely different geographic situation. From Wiki: The airports serve a total of 14 domestic destinations and 396 international destinations. (vs Sydney's 46 domestic and 43 International). The latter is why there are 5 airports. Its not the 9 million people who live there, its the 200 million who fly through there. I'd hazard a guess none of them are "feeder" airports. You can get to where you want to go from any of them.

Derfred
27th Nov 2018, 16:35
If this thread is still on point,..

Surely all Rex, some Qantaslink(Dash 8-100, -200, -300s), some ATRs & any smaller domestic aircraft should be moved to Bankstown today. Buses could run between airports(takes roughly 40 mins). Not ideal, but must be better than getting stuck at SYD all day, with chance of not going anywhere ?

You assume staff and equipment and procedures availablie to just ďmake that happenĒ in airlines which are already short-staffed to the bone?

BNE320, I assume you are a travel agent, because you certainly wouldnít be suggesting such a thing if you actually worked for an airline.

The day I see Alan Joyce lumping bags because a rampy went sick, I will revisit your idea. Until then, dream sweetly of low security airports, and the girls within... ;)

Vag277
27th Nov 2018, 22:15
BNEA320

You clearly do not live in Sydney. Weather today will make the bus trip a lot more than 40 minutes.Do you understand pavement strength, runway & taxiway width requirements or anything related to heavy aircraft operation, never mind the inevitable NIMBY complaints about aircraft noise in Sydney?

Atlas Shrugged
27th Nov 2018, 22:16
There is no reason passenger handling, security can not be done at Mascot with the passengers being bussed in secured busses direct to the airside at Bankskstown. It should enable some flights with smaller aircraft to be handled from there meaning cash flow and some happier passengers. It does not mean everything can be done that way but a little may help.

That's the second stupidest idea I've ever heard.

Every 'solution' bandied around so far is nothing short of a totally pointless exercise, which has no intent other than giving an appearance of doing something which needs not be done anyway.....total WOFTAM.

You could probably stand in the middle of a puddle of AVTUR and throw a lit match into it too, and it would not do anything. But, I don't see any particular reason to test that equally stupid idea either!

jonkster
27th Nov 2018, 23:22
BNEA320

You clearly do not live in Sydney. Weather today will make the bus trip a lot more than 40 minutes.

Not just today. The trip from SY to BK by road at times would regularly exceed the flight time sydney to melbourne, not just on bad weather days. The M5 can be horrendous, one minor bingle and it stops. Sometimes it is stops for no obvious reason at all.

Although sitting in a bus you have a nice big window seats. Where you could happily sit and relax and watch the traffic up close sitting stationary with you in the M5 tunnel. Maybe they could serve meals on the bus?

Although delays like that would mean the BK departure would either delayed or the flight missed or cancelled. Perhaps in that case the bus could just keep going to the destination and skip the flight altogether? Might be quicker and cheaper.

Probably best then to ask domestic pax to arrive an extra 2 hours early at mascot, to allow transit time to BK in case the M5 clogs. And maybe bring a sanger and a thermos for the bus trip.

That would probably work most of the time.

I can see the obvious attraction for passengers. :)

Ascend Charlie
27th Nov 2018, 23:45
Close down Bankstown completely, build an Ikea to go with the Bunnings already there, let the bus passengers off for a shopping trip before going on to Buggery's Creek.

reubee
28th Nov 2018, 00:58
Someone get some white paint and paint 7R and 25L at the ends of the 1250m stretch of tarmac connecting 16R/34L with 16L/34R (trying to remember what obstacles would be at the east end)

601
28th Nov 2018, 04:35
Someone get some white paint and paint 7R and 25L at the ends of the 1250m stretch of tarmac connecting 16R/34L with 16L/34R (trying to remember what obstacles would be at the east end)

Nah, that is to easy

Berealgetreal
28th Nov 2018, 04:56
Probably by bus to melbourne ends up being easier.

clark y
28th Nov 2018, 05:35
Just fill in Botany Bay with rubbish and landfill. Heaps of room!

Falling Leaf
28th Nov 2018, 09:58
Building a new parallel runway in Botany Bay (25L/07R) would be an obvious solution, the Chinese would have done it ten years ago if it was their airport. But then again, at SYD airport you can't even get hot water in their bathrooms, so that shows you how customer focussed Macquarie Bank are.

Popgun
28th Nov 2018, 13:34
Building a new parallel runway in Botany Bay (25L/07R) would be an obvious solution, the Chinese would have done it ten years ago if it was their airport. But then again, at SYD airport you can't even get hot water in their bathrooms, so that shows you how customer focussed Macquarie Bank are.

Indeed. There's room for an 1800m strip, perhaps even 2km, so that it could be a fully utilised 737/320 runway.

If only it were politically possible.

Tell him he's dreaming.

PG

LeadSled
28th Nov 2018, 23:02
Sydney Airport is a piece of cr#p. Thats all you need to know. Fifty years of political incompetence and corruption,bureaucratic stupidity and short-sightedness. A national embarrassment . And its not getting better anytime soon. Days like the other day make me thank the deities that I am close to retirement. A disgrace.

George,
Quite a lot longer than 50 years, indeed since the first master plan for a "land airport for Sydney" (when international services were almost all flying boats) was dropped.
The only remaining vestige of this plan is the freeway from Moore Park to the airport, (yes, years ago a reservation was made for a multi-lane highway when most main roads were barely two sealed lanes.) where it takes a right turn just past The Lakes golf course, it would have continued straight on to the proposed International Terminal, beside a 17 Left of two wide spaced parallel runways.
Instead, a new 07/25 was built as the new "long" runway.
The Army engineer responsible for this first master plan was a person of great imagination and foresight..
It has been a sad story since --- which has been as good a testimony as any of the twin evils of Australian bureaucracy and short term electoral politics.
Tootle pip!!

Shark Patrol
29th Nov 2018, 03:03
We arrived yesterday morning just after the cessation of the curfew. Runway in use was 16L/R but one of the first aircraft into Sydney reported extensive lightning to the north and required Runway 07. We followed suit. Weather all around the airport. Broke off the first approach at 2000 feet due to windshear reported by preceding aircraft. Immediately turned to the south and then held for about 10 minutes. Second approach was successful achieving visual about 150 feet above the Runway 07 minima. Landed in driving rain and were then unable to get to the gate for about 50 minutes due to ramp shutdown from lightning.

Throughout all this, the support provided by Sydney ATC was EXCELLENT! Kudos guys and girls. You sometimes cop criticism in these forums, but your efforts yesterday were TREMENDOUS in very difficult and demanding conditions.

George Glass
29th Nov 2018, 04:30
Shark,
Agreed . ATC do the best they can within the rules they must abide by and the facilities that they have to work with.
Doesnt change the fact that Sydney is not even close to being a world class facility. The list of inadequacies is too long to list.
Worst of all , the current problems were foreseen and anticipated by inquiry after inquiry since WW2.
As Lead says its a symbol of all that is wrong with infrastructure planning in Australia.
You can polish a turd all you like but.....
Its still a piece of cr#p.

777Nine
29th Nov 2018, 07:31
Shark,
Agreed . ATC do the best they can within the rules they must abide by and the facilities that they have to work with.
Doesnt change the fact that Sydney is not even close to being a world class facility. The list of inadequacies is too long to list.
Worst of all , the current problems were foreseen and anticipated by inquiry after inquiry since WW2.
As Lead says its a symbol of all that is wrong with infrastructure planning in Australia.
You can polish a turd all you like but.....
Its still a piece of cr#p.

This is what happens when an investment bank owns an airport. It's certaunlu not the fault of the people that work at the airport, they're certainly doing the best that they can.

International city with a not so international airport.


​​​

Beer Baron
29th Nov 2018, 09:09
Sydney is not even close to being a world class facility.
What is world class when it comes to airports? Sydney airport certainly has its issues but plenty of major cities around the world have airports with significant issues too.

LHR has been too small for decades and Iíve suffered more delays in and out of there than SYD.

NRT until not that long ago could not even acquire the land to build two full length runways and a proper taxiway system.

LAX has plenty of runways but the terminals are horrendous.

JFK is has been operating beyond its capacity for decades

AKLís second runway is a taxiway???

BKK built a brand new airport that sunk, cracked and terminal overheated.

I could go on and on.
Iíve not done a lot of international flying these last few years so some of these issues may have been improved. But my point is that having terrible airport infrastructure seems to be a common trait of world class cities.

pilotchute
29th Nov 2018, 10:52
Greater London has 4 airports. New York/Jersey has 3. Los Angeles/San Diego has 4. Even Jakarta has 2.

Greater Sydney has over 5.5 million people and only 1 Airport?

I think it's the number of airports in Sydney not the quality that's the problem.

AmarokGTI
29th Nov 2018, 11:21
don't think story is strictly correct

it states ..........

"its runways are too short for regional airliners such as the Saab 340 and Metro series to takeoff at maximum weights, even on a cold day, thus limiting aircraft range and/or revenue payloads."

Really ?

Can understand why RAAA is against Bankstown being used for commercial ops, but think that would mostly be about feed & any airline that did might lose some revenue.

OK, the All Blacks with average weight of 120kgs & with 23kgs of luggage x 34 or 36 might not work, but a normal mix of passengers with less baggage should be able to work, except on very long sectors. Can't imagine Albury or Dubbo being an issue.

Bankstown, Wet runway (canít assume itíll be dry so common sense says to plan worst case for this scenario), nil wind. Saab 340B. Ops limited to well below MTOW even at 25 degrees OAT.

GA Driver
30th Nov 2018, 02:10
I think it's the number of airports in Sydney not the quality that's the problem.

No, itís the quality of Sydney airport..... I donít think another one would help any time soon. Look at Avalon.

morno
30th Nov 2018, 11:59
I fly around various parts of Asia, some good, some not so good.

Trust me, the quality of Sydney Airport is not bad!

Traffic_Is_Er_Was
30th Nov 2018, 12:04
Greater London has 4 airports. New York/Jersey has 3. Los Angeles/San Diego has 4. Even Jakarta has 2.

Greater Sydney has over 5.5 million people and only 1 Airport?

I think it's the number of airports in Sydney not the quality that's the problem.
London's 5 airports handle 200 million people between them. Sydney does 43 million, so really, it only needs one on those numbers. However, 1 of London's airports (LHR) handles 70 million, so on that number, SYD can do a lot better. It's not about the local population, it's about how much of a hub it has been made.