Nimrod vs Argentine submarine (1984)

[Marcantilan]

Hello all,

I am looking for information about an encounter between a Nimrod and Argentine Type 1700 submarine ARA Santa Cruz on November 1984. The encounter was not down south...but in the English Channel. Santa Cruz was on her maiden voyage, from Emden to her home port in Argentine and she was caught running in the surface by a Nimrod (and HMS Phoebe, a Canberra, a Lynx and surely many others).

The encounter was hardly classified right now (in fact, the files are in the National Archives, along with a beautiful picture of ARA Santa Cruz marked in the header "01 H 120 RAF 1577" and the position and so on ). Anyone recalls this encounter?

Thanks and best regards,

[Marcantilan]

Just about any Nimrod crew that could get to her transit lane during their routine training exercises, would have had a pop. I can't remember if she deployed straight down the channel from Germany, or circumnavigated the UK first, but that's a 120 (Kinloss based) photo although of course they might have been deployed to St Mawgan at the time. I was based in Ops Support at St Mawgan at the time, so I would have distributed all the photos onwards to various agencies. I remember it fairly well, but I don't think I can add anything to what you already know. It would have been widely reported in the papers at the time. RIP your fallen comrades.

Yes, either crew 3 or crew 6 from Kinloss took the picture. Regards!

[camelspyyder]

Yes, either crew 3 or crew 6 from Kinloss took the picture. Regards!

I was on 120 crew 3 at the time. Unless the photo was taken on 15th, 18th, or 19th it wasn't us.

On 2 of those days we did fishery protection sorties, so there is a 50% chance we were in the English channel at some point that week.

I do remember the photo, but cant recall if we took it or not.

[Marcantilan]

I was on 120 crew 3 at the time. Unless the photo was taken on 15th, 18th, or 19th it wasn't us.

On 2 of those days we did fishery protection sorties, so there is a 50% chance we were in the English channel at some point that week.

I do remember the photo, but cant recall if we took it or not.

The picture was taken on Nov 18th, 1044z.

According to the Sqn records, on November 18th there were two flights from Kinloss. Crew 6, launched at 0355z and Crew 3 (Flt Lt W H M Mot), launched at 0855z. So, it is look like your crew took the picture!

What is the correct jargon at the time for a submarine radar contact? A goblin? And a contact from a sonobuoy is call "buoy # is hot?" (as in the US Navy)

Regards!

[Pontius Navigator]

What is the correct jargon at the time for a submarine radar contact? A goblin? And a contact from a sonobuoy is call "buoy # is hot?" (as in the US Navy)

Regards!
A radar contact is just that. If it suddenly appeared it is a riser. Similarly if it disappears it is a sinker. Either way is may be considered Possub 1 or 2 depending on sea state. Add in a riser becoming sinker and you might upgrade to Poss 3-4 and criteria for an urgent attack. You might also sight a swirl from a sinker.

Then throw in an ESM bearing, or better a MAD mark and you can go Probsub. A MAD was usually accompanied by a Jez buoy so you could then include the type.

In the North Sea we once had a DRC followed by MAD but no sonics or further MAD contact. Our ProbSub was converted to Certsub Foxtrot when we looked at the post attack camera. The submarine was clearly visible underwater.

Contact Buoy xx is true but over the RT we might have Pointer xx Hot Goblin/Panther etc etc. I think it was Panther and there was a third. Can't remember the term for a Jez buoy

[oxenos]

term for a Jez buoy
Fencepost?? And was an unidentified radar contact not a spook? The memory fades.

[Marcantilan]

Thanks for the replies!

It is look like a French vessel was also involved in the encounter. More details to follow.

[Pontius Navigator]

Found this:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://nato.radioscanner.ru/files/article140/brevity_words_app7e_.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiYxv78hPPeAhVJNOwKHcQ9DEYQFjAFegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1gv7Q1r872HBmifuWyu5NV

Goblin is submerged contact
Panther is enemy nuclear
Polar friendly nuclear
​​​​​Cadillac active directional sonobuoy
Pointer a passive directional sonobuoy
Ranger is an active ranging sonobuoy

I didn't spot a code word for a Jezebel buoy which is a passive non-directional sonobuoy.

[camelspyyder]

Maypole. I found APP7 online earlier today (used to be ACP165).

[Marcantilan]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/691x960/51zytd_a086408fdcfd874170452ff470862f5a52578184.jpg

I think it is nice to share (even after all this time) the Bravo Zulu (in naval parlance) to the crew involved!

[Marcantilan]

Here is the picture involved!

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x543/image_bb54b713a99b370658ca7bb7e3f13e4fc1f75312.png

[HAS59]

... and in the titling strip the RFDGP refers to the camera type and film used = Reconnaissance Framing Daylight Ground Panchromatic. in this case Ground = hand-held rather than a fixed installation in the aircraft. the 240 is the MLA of the target (and Mercantilan 'age 43' that makes you eight years old when the photo was taken?

[Wander00]

WH Mott - Bill Mott from 88 Entry at the Towers? Any one in contact if it is (Entry reunion in 2020)

[Marcantilan]

... and in the titling strip the RFDGP refers to the camera type and film used = Reconnaissance Framing Daylight Ground Panchromatic. in this case Ground = hand-held rather than a fixed installation in the aircraft. the 240 is the MLA of the target (and Mercantilan 'age 43' that makes you eight years old when the photo was taken?

Nine in November 1984. Then very interested in Mazinger Z, Robotech and other cyber-stuff of the time.

[HAS59]

Nine in November 1984. Then very interested in Mazinger Z, Robotech and other cyber-stuff of the time.

I do recall a number of the more senior members of the WO & Sgt's mess at the time grumbling about 'Baby Sergeants' when referring to the young siggies livening up the mess. Perhaps that explains it.