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SpringHeeledJack
21st Nov 2018, 14:14
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-46286215

What right do we have to inseminate our views into other cultures ? Or they ours ? In this case, the matter was dealt with without discussion.

bnt
21st Nov 2018, 14:43
"Our" views? Not my views. The tribe is legally protected from people like that: he broke the law just setting foot on the island i.e. he had no right. My only concern is for the tribe, since he could have been carrying diseases for which they have no resistance.

old,not bold
21st Nov 2018, 15:06
I'm hoping with this post to pre-empt any confusion some may suffer from if they mistake arrogant, self-righteous, suicidal stupidity for courage.

This religious nutter had no right to interfere with the lives and beliefs of the tribespeople, and his unthinking selfishness has probably caused them a huge amount of harm.

I hope he tasted nice.

BehindBlueEyes
21st Nov 2018, 15:11
I suppose they’ve only done, on a smaller scale, what some religions or cultures continue do all the time to anything they don’t like or understand.

The missionary was either incredibly misguided or a fanatical zealot to think that he could just land and convert them.

Captivep
21st Nov 2018, 15:50
It's the absolute, total self-confidence (of being the only group that's right) that I don't understand about religious proselytizers; it certainly caused this man's demise!

Not really a thread drift, but it is extraordinary that there are still quite a few groups of "uncontacted peoples" around the world.

Fareastdriver
21st Nov 2018, 15:59
It must be a long time since the Pearly Gates had had an arrow ridden spirit arrive.

hiflymk3
21st Nov 2018, 16:53
Chau. "I've come to help you meet my maker."

Sentinelise. "Wrong mate, we'll help you with that. Ready boys... AIM"

60,000 years of isolation. The first ever Brexit perhaps?

KenV
21st Nov 2018, 17:08
Hmmmm. The harangues in this thread against "religious proselytizers" says lots more about the person posting such harangues than it does about this guy that was murdered by these tribal folk. How so? You have no clue what this guy's motive was. None. You're just using this tragedy as an excuse to post anti-religious nonsense.

Captivep
21st Nov 2018, 17:15
"Chau had visited the Andaman and Nicobar Islands in the past and told locals he had a strong desire to visit the Sentinelese and preach to them, a police source told Reuters." This, according to the Guardian.

If that turns out to be untrue, then my comment about religious proselytizers still stands - just not about him...

DaveReidUK
21st Nov 2018, 17:20
Hmmmm. The harangues in this thread against "religious proselytizers" says lots more about the person posting such harangues than it does about this guy that was murdered by these tribal folk. How so? You have no clue what this guy's motive was. None. You're just using this tragedy as an excuse to post anti-religious nonsense.

Reports suggest otherwise.

Brit Neil MacLeod met John on a transatlantic flight where he told him he felt it was his “calling” to reach the tribe.

John and Neil were both flying on their own from London to Phoenix, Arizona when they got chatting on the plane over their mutual love of football in October of 2015.

Neil told The Sun Online: “He had a very clear sense that he wanted to bring the word of God to those unreached people.

“He had a real profound sense of calling.”

“He was just a lovely guy to sit beside.

“We just had a number of points of common interest. First of all we started talking about football.

“He also talked about his work as an EMT working with FEMA in disaster zones.

“Then it turned out that he was a Christian, as am I, so we got onto discussing religion.

“It was then that he mentioned wanting to go to the Andaman Islands to spread the word of God.”

The 47-year-old lawyer from Edinburgh added: “He had a clear sense of wanting to go and I think he had just been in India scouting out how he would go about it.

“We chatted about the dangers of going to that part of the world, and he was well aware of the dangers of what he wanted to do.

“He wasn’t a person who had no sense of what he was doing, he was aware of the dangers.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7791812/us-missionary-shot-dead-arrows-remote-island-tribe-christianity/

SMT Member
21st Nov 2018, 17:21
Hmmmm. The harangues in this thread against "religious proselytizers" says lots more about the person posting such harangues than it does about this guy that was murdered by these tribal folk. How so? You have no clue what this guy's motive was. None. You're just using this tragedy as an excuse to post anti-religious nonsense.

That's one point of view. Another might be, that it takes a certain kind of spirited determination seeking to make contact a people known for their hostility, and with whom all contact is expressly forbidden. If indeed the purpose was to preach the gospel, then it's not a far fetched conclusion at all that the individual was, indeed, of particularly strong faith. Then again, all that could be wrong and it might have been just another idiotic young tourist forgetting he's not immortal. So, standard idiot or religious idiot, he ended up dead either way.

Harley Quinn
21st Nov 2018, 17:31
Seems a prime candidate for the Darwin thread

sitigeltfel
21st Nov 2018, 17:37
It must be a long time since the Pearly Gates had had an arrow ridden spirit arrive.

A few days ago...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-46193380

Krystal n chips
21st Nov 2018, 17:52
Hmmmm. The harangues in this thread against "religious proselytizers" says lots more about the person posting such harangues than it does about this guy that was murdered by these tribal folk. How so? You have no clue what this guy's motive was. None. You're just using this tragedy as an excuse to post anti-religious nonsense.

That's true, in that we have not been directly privy as to his motives, however.......let's see. American, from Alabama, missionary, seemingly not aware that contact with the tribe is illegal ..or, if he was, decided he was exempt so tried not once, but twice.....no chance of a hat trick however...to go somewhere he shouldn't have been in the first place.

Could have just been an innocent tourist taking in the sights of course........

There again, the word "preach " may offer a rather significant clue.....to most of us that is.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/21/american-killed-isolated-indian-tribe-north-sentinel-island

And less you become offended by the inclusion of the nationality, relax, the British get an honourable mention in passing doing what we used to do so well.....there being no such inconveniences such as media reporting to sort of enlighten the masses otherwise, ........a spot of colonial genocide !.....before taking tiffin no doubt.

G-CPTN
21st Nov 2018, 18:17
What hope did he have of being able to communicate with them in their language? - or did he think that they spoke English?

Fareastdriver
21st Nov 2018, 18:43
Everybody understands English; you just have to shout louder and louder until they do.

Ascend Charlie
21st Nov 2018, 18:51
KenV, you got your punctuation wrong, it isn't
"anti-religious nonsense,"
it is "anti religious-nonsense".

hiflymk3
21st Nov 2018, 19:48
I hope he tasted nice.
He tasted divine.

ChrisVJ
21st Nov 2018, 19:59
I get the idea that we shouldn't interfere with other peoples lives, tell them what to believe etc.(including the risk of bringing disease to which they don't have resistance.) There's far too much of that within our own society.

BUT, who are we to decide that these people shouldn't have all the pleasures and conveniences of our modern world? Unless we are prepared to live as they do because "it is the best way for us" maybe we should not deny them the benefits we enjoy.

ShyTorque
21st Nov 2018, 20:00
Is it OK to shoot arrows at Jehovah's Witnesses on my driveway?

SpringHeeledJack
21st Nov 2018, 21:56
It could be argued that the Sentinelese are closer to how God intended mankind to be, than any do-gooder trying to 'convert' them to a (relatively) modern view of religion.

hiflymk3
21st Nov 2018, 22:06
I get the idea that we shouldn't interfere with other peoples lives, tell them what to believe etc.(including the risk of bringing disease to which they don't have resistance.) There's far too much of that within our own society.

BUT, who are we to decide that these people shouldn't have all the pleasures and conveniences of our modern world? Unless we are prepared to live as they do because "it is the best way for us" maybe we should not deny them the benefits we enjoy.

If they wanted all our pleasures and conveniences I'm sure they would think to ask.

WingNut60
21st Nov 2018, 22:13
I still rank the effects of population growth (or simply "population") as the main source of all of the world's problems.
However, unsolicited imposition of philosophy must rank second.

And imposition starts with simple verbal expression of one's philosophy to those who have no desire to hear it.

The above, of course, does not apply to this post.
JB readers must have a desire to hear this, my philosophy, otherwise they wouldn't be here reading it.

Gertrude the Wombat
21st Nov 2018, 22:24
Is it OK to shoot arrows at Jehovah's Witnesses on my driveway?
Only In America.

treadigraph
22nd Nov 2018, 00:26
Is it OK to shoot arrows at Jehovah's Witnesses on my driveway?

Yes. So long as they don't demand a blood transfusion afterwards.

De_flieger
22nd Nov 2018, 00:50
The Sentinelese have shown repeatedly that they don't want our pleasures and conveniences by shooting arrows at everyone who tries to get close, including helicopters, refusing all attempts to trade or communicate, and trying - usually successfully - to slaughter every outsider who sets foot on the island, even a couple of unfortunate fishermen who drifted ashore after their boat broke its mooring. Apparently all contact with the islanders is forbidden, along with attempting to reach the island, in part due to the risks of diseases that they have no immunity to wiping out the entire tribe, so even a wholesale transplanting of the tribe - ignoring the ethical implications of attempting that - into some other populated location where they could have the benefits of more modern societies would likely be fatal to them. One misguided individual could easily carry in diseases that would wipe the tribe out altogether.

The fact that this particular misguided individual
- told people he wanted to go to the Andaman Islands to spread the word of god,
- was prepared to break local laws to do so on multiple occasions
- left the fishermen who took him there a note saying that Jesus had given him the strength to journey to the most forbidden places on earth,
- and left behind a journal describing his desire to spread the word of god,
means it's hard to see any other possible motive driving his actions outside of religious proselytizing. The consequences of his choices were entirely predictable. I can't really describe something so entirely self-inflicted and foreseeable as a tragedy though, unless his body inadvertently carries in diseases that harm or kill the tribespeople.

Crownstay01
22nd Nov 2018, 06:03
Hmmmm. The harangues in this thread against "religious proselytizers" says lots more about the person posting such harangues than it does about this guy that was murdered by these tribal folk. How so? You have no clue what this guy's motive was. None. You're just using this tragedy as an excuse to post anti-religious nonsense.

Based on the information that’s been made public, we have a very good clue what the man’s motive was.

Apparently the god he was there to spruik was indifferent to his fate.

sitigeltfel
22nd Nov 2018, 06:18
He made the mistake of wearing this t-shirt...


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/335x400/80-s_l400_b108c4732caf57b05f559070b175da70cb43725d.jpg

419
22nd Nov 2018, 08:37
Hmmmm. The harangues in this thread against "religious proselytizers" says lots more about the person posting such harangues than it does about this guy that was murdered by these tribal folk.

Murdered?
Are you saying that someone doesn't have the right to defend their property from intruders who have entered their property illegally and who might be there to do harm to them or their family and that they are not allowed to use weapons to do this or is this sort of action only allowed in Texas?

ATNotts
22nd Nov 2018, 09:27
If there is one thing that really makes my blood boil it is (mostly Chrtistian) evangelist missionaries who's aim is to indoctrinate people with their religion in an attempt to strip them of their own beliefs. I know it's been going on for centuries, but surely in this day and age it is a thoroughly outdated practice.

So far as I can see other religions just don't do this. Islam would like the world to conform to Islamic practices, but you don't hear of them trudging the streets on a conversion mission - you do see them in cities trying to explain their religion and defending from the terrorist image that a few have given it. Similarly with Jews, Hindus, Sikhs they aren't on a conversion mission.

Going into remote areas and trying to convert people who have had little or no contact with our world can never be right.

eal401
22nd Nov 2018, 12:17
If there is one thing that really makes my blood boil it is (mostly Chrtistian) evangelist missionaries who's aim is to indoctrinate people with their religion in an attempt to strip them of their own beliefs. I know it's been going on for centuries, but surely in this day and age it is a thoroughly outdated practice.

In just over a month, we are going to participate in the biggest example of this behaviour - Christmas.

Makes me laugh when people say "Christmas is too commercial, people have lost sight of the religious element" as I always think "you have zero clue about the history of Christmas!"

Krystal n chips
22nd Nov 2018, 13:02
There was some, erm, confusion on the part of one contributor, as to the deceased's motives......

Acting as a more contemporary version of said Book of Revelations, the Guardian article should offer sufficient clarity..... for those in need......although possibly not a blessing

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/john-allen-chau-man-killed-by-tribe-north-sentinel-island-declare-jesus

old,not bold
22nd Nov 2018, 13:05
Is it OK to shoot arrows at Jehovah's Witnesses on my driveway?

Yes, of course it is, provided that;

1. You live in America as per the previous post..

2. Your family have lived in the same house for 60,000 years without any outside contact. This is of course the same qualification as an average redneck, who probably suffers from the same genetic defects from prolonged inbreeding. (If you are one of those, remember to use a bow and arrows, not your favourite fully automatic assault rifle.)

eal401
22nd Nov 2018, 13:14
There was some, erm, confusion on the part of one contributor, as to the deceased's motives......

Acting as a more contemporary version of said Book of Revelations, the Guardian article should offer sufficient clarity..... for those in need......although possibly not a blessing

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/john-allen-chau-man-killed-by-tribe-north-sentinel-island-declare-jesus

Well, that article suggests he was indeed a grade A moron. Sympathy = 0

Ancient Mariner
22nd Nov 2018, 16:08
In just over a month, we are going to participate in the biggest example of this behaviour - Christmas.

Makes me laugh when people say "Christmas is too commercial, people have lost sight of the religious element" as I always think "you have zero clue about the history of Christmas!"
We call it "jul", you corrupted into Yule. Same thing, and way ahead of the carpenter's son.
Per

Tashengurt
22nd Nov 2018, 16:30
I read that he'd already made contact and found them to be aggressive and then they shot him with an arrow so he fled but then returned?
Perhaps this should be moved to the Darwin awards thread?

G-CPTN
22nd Nov 2018, 16:38
It seems that this guy was (is?) a martyr.

hiflymk3
22nd Nov 2018, 16:53
I read that he'd already made contact and found them to be aggressive and then they shot him with an arrow so he fled but then returned?
Perhaps this should be moved to the Darwin awards thread?
Or Friday Jokes, it's so daft it's funny.

Nervous SLF
23rd Nov 2018, 07:23
I think that he was just as mentally ill as those who commit mass murder, drive under the
influence of drugs/alcohol or use a phone whilst driving.

double_barrel
23rd Nov 2018, 08:00
If there is one thing that really makes my blood boil it is (mostly Chrtistian) evangelist missionaries who's aim is to indoctrinate people with their religion in an attempt to strip them of their own beliefs. I know it's been going on for centuries, but surely in this day and age it is a thoroughly outdated practice.

I still regularly encounter deluded, naive Americans travelling to Africa to do good work and 'spread the word of the lord'. The arrogance and ignorance of this attitude is breathtaking. It often seems to be older retired people on trips organized by their local church. They are sometimes clutching with them a few $1,000 from the church collection for some noble cause. It is hard to get angry with them, they are usually well meaning, but shockingly ill-informed and ignorant and utterly convinced that what they are doing is morally right. Sometimes I try to argue, but its rarely worthwhile, they are just so sad and narrow in their world view that it's a waste of time. Sometimes they insist on being chatty, then I typically tell them that one of Africa's biggest problems is corrupt witchdoctors trying to maintain primitive superstitions, they lap that up until they realise I am talking about them.

Mr Optimistic
23rd Nov 2018, 09:59
Wonder if it hurt.

BehindBlueEyes
23rd Nov 2018, 10:21
I still regularly encounter deluded, naive Americans travelling to Africa to do good work and 'spread the word of the lord'. The arrogance and ignorance of this attitude is breathtaking. It often seems to be older retired people on trips organized by their local church. They are sometimes clutching with them a few $1,000 from the church collection for some noble cause. It is hard to get angry with them, they are usually well meaning, but shockingly ill-informed and ignorant and utterly convinced that what they are doing is morally right. Sometimes I try to argue, but its rarely worthwhile, they are just so sad and narrow in their world view that it's a waste of time. Sometimes they insist on being chatty, then I typically tell them that one of Africa's biggest problems is corrupt witchdoctors trying to maintain primitive superstitions, they lap that up until they realise I am talking about them.

First thing these people seem to do, when they arrive in a impoverish area, is build a church!

Sir Niall Dementia
23rd Nov 2018, 17:44
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/535x600/46506341_10161087278690076_5924578471941505024_n_c704f343db6 b3ee7282e57082653015c750b9c59.jpg

SND

RatherBeFlying
24th Nov 2018, 15:45
Don't let Trump know about these folks. He'll be wanting to put them on border control:E

G-CPTN
24th Nov 2018, 16:58
Where do peoples who live a simple and basic life get their materials to 'clothe' themselves?

Mail order?

nonsense
24th Nov 2018, 17:30
Where do peoples who live a simple and basic life get their materials to 'clothe' themselves?

Mail order?

We are but ignorant heathens incapable of producing our own clothing from our environment compared to these experts!

Krystal n chips
24th Nov 2018, 17:41
Where do peoples who live a simple and basic life get their materials to 'clothe' themselves?

Mail order?

You should pose this question to any denizens of Yorkshire, or Lincolnshire for that matter......

oxenos
25th Nov 2018, 22:15
It seems that the Indian police are now trying to recover the body
This risks the lives of the police and the health of the islanders.
Given that he is now where he wanted to be ( in both senses), why bother?

G-CPTN
26th Nov 2018, 15:50
It seems that the Indian police are now trying to recover the body
This risks the lives of the police and the health of the islanders.
Given that he is now where he wanted to be ( in both senses), why bother?
Indeed - let sleeping dogs lie . . .

Perhaps there was some overtime available?

MarkerInbound
26th Nov 2018, 16:41
More likely being India that the bureaucracy requires a body to proceed with the investigation.

Gertrude the Wombat
26th Nov 2018, 16:45
More likely being India that the bureaucracy requires ...
And who taught India how to do bureaucracy then?

11Fan
26th Nov 2018, 19:18
SND, still laughing.