OK The Jellyfsish has spoken...

[Starbear]

........the floor is yours (ours)!

[RAT Management]

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no

[Flex88]

Why anyone would waste their time and energy on this farce would be beyond my understanding...
It's all BS coming from the same Suits that have put the company into the condition it's in with the DATA scandal being the latest in their very long list of cockups.
Listening to these vacuous talking heads go through the "we care and we're hear to listen" spew one more time
would have me jumping off a building.. Don't give them the time of day.

#WalkAway

#CXit

[markontop]

A vote one way or the other should only happen after the next 13th month event.
This would shift the fence sitters.

[bobrun]

What would we be voting on exactly?

RP: it will be the same old we've had for years. JCR isn't even included in the offer as the budget committee killed it, probably for years to come.
ARAPA: looks like it will be a cut of benefits for those above the RFZ.
HKPA: meagre improvements below the inflation.

Without a pay deal, there's nothing to vote on! It's even a pay cut for some!

Once contract compliance is removed, forget about hoping for any improvements in pay for at least another five years, depending on the length of the contract.

Why are we even considering putting this to a vote?

[morningcoffee]

A vote one way or the other should only happen after the next 13th month event.
This would shift the fence sitters.
This.

Company states who gets 13th month before we vote. No vote until company tells us.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

you shouldn't vote yes just because of 13th month, either way you look at it it is not an adequate contract. It was the companies low ball offer, substandard HKPA, no pay rise and JCR still not confirmed. GC send it back to the company, don't disrespect the members by brining it to a vote. And if by some chance it does come to a vote I'm hoping for a strong show of support with >90% voting no

[mngmt mole]

We ARE in the final innings of one of the greatest corporate games of bluff of all time. When the wheels are well and truly coming off the CX wagon, our arrogant, incompetent and foolhardy management are trying one last desperate throw of the dice to get us to sign away forever any value that the job of "pilot" has in this part of the world. Just imagine for one minute the shock and panic if we once again throw a smelly, unworthy and contemptuous offer back in their faces. We threw the last one back as it was inadequate. Why on earth would be debase ourselves (and our profession) by now (almost three years later!) agreeing to something even WORSE. We would then deserve the derision, misery and contempt that will forever define our careers.

Gents/ladies, this is THE very time that we need to stand firm and once and for all show the Swires that they have insulted us a step too far. No doubt an "offer" is coming. It WILL be worse than the last one. Hit it straight back into their teeth. Another rejection (and a further corresponding increase in resignations) will send the message that they either treat their employees with respect and value, or they can see their airline collapse around them. For us the choice is simple: a worthy career at CX, or the realisation that such a career truly lies elsewhere.

Vote NO.

[normanton]

Lol !

[Kitsune]

Biggest problem in all this sabre rattling is that in general CX pilots’ brains are not connected to their spines...:cool:

[RAT Management]

If it's put to the vote it will be voted in. Because all the Juniors want whatever they can get $$$ wise and a faster upgrade time. But it shouldn't be put to the vote in the first place. Especially with such a spread of different contacts. Because effectively you are only voting for one third of the offer on the table... That third is what your on.... You couldn't give a rats about the other stuff.

​​​​​​So if voted on... It will get across the line... Then management will know exactly how stupid the pilot body really is! Not to mention the GC.

[seymoreskye]

RAT.

Wouldn't put it all on the Junior guys, at the FN last week it was very apparent Housing was nicely agreed upon and HKPA was miles off. GC are cautious of the fact those on housing will vote YES for this "unilateral offer" because if not...Notice on ARAPA will most likely be served once again by the company.

This is a good opportunity for us all, regardless of contracts signed, to say no. We shouldn't even be in a position to say No as the GC right now must not even allow it to surface.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

if the subpar offer makes it to a vote ill probably leave the union, maybe I wont get some jump seats but who cares really, that was all it was good for. The income insurance side of things I an get better protection elsewhere

[Liam Gallagher]

Turningfinals,

If you do leave the Union, vote "no" before you go...there's a good chap. I wouldn't worry about Jumpseats. Chances are the Captain would have just left the union as well!!

This is hilarious, I see two groups pointing at each other shouting "they're going to sell us out". The reality is neither group is going to find the DFO's sh:mad:t sandwich palatable. I believe we are way more united than the DFO thinks. He is unwittingly forcing us together.

The majority of expats won't support this. They know the company has treated Housing as policy for a year now. The company hasn't changed it, not out of kindness, but out of fear of backlash. There must be about 300 who will have to pay more under the deal. Apart from the Chairman and 2 VCs (who will offset their losses with Training/management positions), the rest would be crazy to vote themselves a paycut. Then you've got the 100 or so taking $24k, they receive less than HKPA, so voting "yes" locks them in. The guys on mortgages who vote "yes" kiss good-bye to 25 Year
Housing and endorse the company's broken promise. That's going to make us all gag.

The majority of LEPs won't support this either. $4000 HKPA doesn't offset the loss from locking in a zero % payrise. Inflation will kill them. Also, once zero % is locked in, it's going to be hard to turn that around in future pay talks. The smarter SO/FOs realise the company is planning to move them closer to POS18 and the only thing to protect them is the TB. Once that's gone, the company won't be caught out again. They junior folks know it will just be them and the company, the company however will be holding a box of pineapples labelled COS18.

Maybe self-interest will prevail, but it seems to me that except for a few "special people", self interest will demand a "no" and a continuation of TB/CC through a period when an A50 arrives every month, resignations are running at 5% and retirements start happening again after a 10 year hiatus. The company are nearly 2 years through a 3 year transformation plan and most people will realise now is not the time to give up.

Stay the course.

PS. Even if a vote started today, it won't finish before Xmas, so you will know the fate of 13th month before voting. That sets up nicely for a bit of backlash over CNY:E

[Trafalgar]

You can add my name to the resignation list (and let me assure you, that list is about to become much longer). I have "recently" left the building (in Elvis speak). It has been an interesting 3 decades working for two airlines, the one I joined and the one CX devolved into.

The CX I joined in the 80's, which was a caring, innovative, prosperous and optimistic company to work for. The CX that I ended my career with, which has morphed into the most dysfunctional, unhappy, intimidatory and embarrassing airline in the industry. We went from having flight ops managers who were characters who at least had integrity and belief in their profession, to self serving, cynical, individuals who have obviously been promoted at least one step above their competency levels. The airline I joined (and loved and admired) has been laid to waste, mainly from within and by our own hand. We went from having a corporate "Mission Statement" that promoted "satisfying careers" for all, to one that seems to only focus on satisfying careers for the the Swires. We went from an airline that valued and respected experience, to one that now openly disdains it, devalues it and actively squanders it.

I wish all the very best in whatever your upcoming choices may be, but I decided that at age 60 this airline wasn't worth another second of my time. I can only hope that most realise that this company is not worth you wasting the most precious and irreplaceable item of value you possess...time. CX can only now be a place of regret, misery and wasted careers. In COS 18, the unworthy individuals that manage this airline have laid down a marker saying "only fools need apply". Don't be one of those who will be used as meat in the grinder. There are better employers and better careers, nearly everywhere.

Farewell, and I will drop by once in a while on the Prune and comment if I feel the need. Merry Christmas and best wishes to all. Traf.

[PanZa-Lead]

Traf
For the very same reasons I also resigned after 29 years. Add me to this years total of pilots leaving

[illtellyouhowitis]

Very sage words, enjoy fellas.

[Slasher1]

You can add my name to the resignation list (and let me assure you, that list is about to become much longer). I have "recently" left the building (in Elvis speak). It has been an interesting 3 decades working for two airlines, the one I joined and the one CX devolved into.

The CX I joined in the 80's, which was a caring, innovative, prosperous and optimistic company to work for. The CX that I ended my career with, which has morphed into the most dysfunctional, unhappy, intimidatory and embarrassing airline in the industry. We went from having flight ops managers who were characters who at least had integrity and belief in their profession, to self serving, cynical, individuals who have obviously been promoted at least one step above their competency levels. The airline I joined (and loved and admired) has been laid to waste, mainly from within and by our own hand. We went from having a corporate "Mission Statement" that promoted "satisfying careers" for all, to one that seems to only focus on satisfying careers for the the Swires. We went from an airline that valued and respected experience, to one that now openly disdains it, devalues it and actively squanders it.

I wish all the very best in whatever your upcoming choices may be, but I decided that at age 60 this airline wasn't worth another second of my time. I can only hope that most realise that this company is not worth you wasting the most precious and irreplaceable item of value you possess...time. CX can only now be a place of regret, misery and wasted careers. In COS 18, the unworthy individuals that manage this airline have laid down a marker saying "only fools need apply". Don't be one of those who will be used as meat in the grinder. There are better employers and better careers, nearly everywhere.

Farewell, and I will drop by once in a while on the Prune and comment if I feel the need. Merry Christmas and best wishes to all. Traf.

Godspeed and tailwinds to you, sir.

I enjoyed reading your sage advice and wish you well.

[Flex88]

Traf and PanZA

Hold the door open for me if you would, I have only a few more tasks remaining to complete and I am 3 weeks behind you. As with Trafs comments, I am leaving saddened at what this once great going concern was and the shadow of a ghost it now is; Air Cathay X.
The airline that once was.. Truly heartbreaking.

I sincerely hope all those who remain do well. For myself, there is more to life than bleating sycophants, cold hard spreadsheets created by what appears to an endless stream of bonus seeking Swire "leaders" hell bent on trashing the company. When you see an ex British Army artillery officer placed in a directorship position ( overseeing 15k + employees) when they have ZERO background, experience or education in the HR field - it's time to run, not walk, for the doors.

The future is yours, make good decisions.

Flex

[cxorcist]

Just watched the movie, Sully, yesterday. What happens to CX when all the Sullys are gone? It is happening far more rapidly than anyone could have imagined. All that will be left soon is the tiger moms’ offspring, bush pilots without bush experience, and South African refugees with no country to call home. CX is doomed. It is fairly obvious from where I sit.

[Jesting Pilate]

Add me to the list, along with Traf, for pretty much the same reasons.

[bm330]

When they're gone, Cathay will be another bit player Asian airline. After the impending 'incident' and the FAA or EASA combs thru training records and real experience levels are revealed, CX will be unceremoniously booted from N.A. and Europe in a heartbeat.

[cxorcist]

When they're gone, Cathay will be another bit player Asian airline. After the impending 'incident' and the FAA or EASA combs thru training records and real experience levels are revealed, CX will be unceremoniously booted from N.A. and Europe in a heartbeat.

I’m offended by the quality of most of CX’s NJers. I’m similarly distraught by those upgrading to FO, especially new RQs, terrifying!!!

[Hellenic aviator]

I’m offended by the quality of most of CX’s NJers. I’m similarly distraught by those upgrading to FO, especially new RQs, terrifying!!!

Some of us remember the days whereby you had to 'know your stuff'.
Nowadays you only require a pulse to become RQ.

[cxorcist]

Some of us remember the days whereby you had to 'know your stuff'.
Nowadays you only require a pulse to become RQ.

Literally, seat warmers and sandwich eaters! The traveling public should be terrified.

[CX ex]

The only way I would put myself or my family on a CX plane now would be if I personally knew the crew.

Very sad indeed.

[raven11]

It’s funny how most parents will spend big bucks on top of the line strollers or to outfit their toddlers with a proper safety helmet and gear...but then to save a few buck on an airline ticket they’ll happily put their toddler in a made made aluminum tube, crewed by “who cares?”, and hurl him/her through the stratospher at 600 knots!

[cxorcist]

The travelling public also has no issue flying Jetstar, Ryanair, EasyJet plus every other low cost airline as long as it saves them $$$$

Right, but the proficiency from those pilots is generally quite high due to lots of sectors flown, even if the experience is relatively low, very similar to US regional airlines. Not so at CX, widebody aircraft and relatively few sectors is deadly for inexperienced crews. Fact!

[Farman Biplane]

Back on topic, wouldn’t it be useful if either side would actually present the so called “negotiated agreements” on ARAPA and RP’s?
It would also be legitimate for the company to introduce these agreements into the current policies regardless of any possible vote.
CX managers must know that whatever the outcome of this negotiated charade, the goodwill of CX pilots is gone forever? Why hangout for a so called “industrial peace clause”?

[Bangaluru]

There must at least be a chance that the company will impose this deal in the case of a no vote. Why not send it back and let them impose and maintain whatever leverage the pilots have.

[RAT Management]

The so called leverage The piss weak pilots have will be bypassed if the no vote happens. They have already made a work around.... It's just a matter of inserting the pineapple... And before any of you naively say it will never happen...believe me the wheels are in motion as I type and it will have more people whinging than all the helpers on a Sunday in Central. Not that it's a reason to vote Yes.... But more to be realistic of what will happen when you vote no.

[mngmt mole]

An even better reason to vote NO. The only thing that matters in life is the truth. In this case, what is needed is to reveal the "truth" about our employer. It is better to know now what the rest of our careers will hold, based on the true character and nature of our employer. If a NO vote triggers them to further tighten the screws, increase the beatings and threaten us unless we show fealty to our rulers, then they will have done all of us a life-long favour. It will allow those of us still in doubt about leaving CX (or even joining) to make the decisions required to break free and dedicate our careers to an employer who will provide a better chance of stability and career happiness. Most of us have already figured this out, and have already left, or are making well advanced plans to do so imminently. For those still hoping that it's all just a bad dream, at least a NO vote will clear up any such delusion. Better to know now than waste any more precious years, only to eventually have to move anyway. Bring it on.

[unitedabx]

You can add my name to the resignation list (and let me assure you, that list is about to become much longer). I have "recently" left the building (in Elvis speak). It has been an interesting 3 decades working for two airlines, the one I joined and the one CX devolved into.

The CX I joined in the 80's, which was a caring, innovative, prosperous and optimistic company to work for. The CX that I ended my career with, which has morphed into the most dysfunctional, unhappy, intimidatory and embarrassing airline in the industry. We went from having flight ops managers who were characters who at least had integrity and belief in their profession, to self serving, cynical, individuals who have obviously been promoted at least one step above their competency levels. The airline I joined (and loved and admired) has been laid to waste, mainly from within and by our own hand. We went from having a corporate "Mission Statement" that promoted "satisfying careers" for all, to one that seems to only focus on satisfying careers for the the Swires. We went from an airline that valued and respected experience, to one that now openly disdains it, devalues it and actively squanders it.

I wish all the very best in whatever your upcoming choices may be, but I decided that at age 60 this airline wasn't worth another second of my time. I can only hope that most realise that this company is not worth you wasting the most precious and irreplaceable item of value you possess...time. CX can only now be a place of regret, misery and wasted careers. In COS 18, the unworthy individuals that manage this airline have laid down a marker saying "only fools need apply". Don't be one of those who will be used as meat in the grinder. There are better employers and better careers, nearly everywhere.

Farewell, and I will drop by once in a while on the Prune and comment if I feel the need. Merry Christmas and best wishes to all. Traf.

Traf your sanity and wise words have inspired many of us. God Speed and please please drop by on this site and give us your wisdom.

[unitedabx]

Some of us remember the days whereby you had to 'know your stuff'.
Nowadays you only require a pulse to become RQ.

The few trainers that remain ( for their own reasons ) can make an impact by not passing these newbee's on their RQ checks. If there is an incident and it is down to a newly promoted RQ pilot then the subsequent enquiry will look at who signed him/her off as compenent. Checkers beware.