Beyond 55 extensions are here.

[unitedabx]

Some captains have been invited into their fleet offices by their CP's and offered extensions beyond 55. Same salary, no housing, COS18 medical and 900 hours a year.
Another kick in the nuts for FO's awaiting a command and those of us who ticked the "once only" offer to extend to 65.

[JY9024]

Some captains have been invited into their fleet offices by their CP's and offered extensions beyond 55. Same salary, no housing, COS18 medical and 900 hours a year.
Another kick in the nuts for FO's awaiting a command and those of us who ticked the "once only" offer to extend to 65.
Training Ban is taking effect then it seems...

[Freehills]

Plus (if anyone takes it) a data point if ARAPA is realy needed or not...

[Farman Biplane]

That is not an extension, it is an individually negotiated bad deal involving turning up to work the day after you are 55 and doing the exact same job for less. Losers!

It is not an “extension” which would by definition be an extended term on your current conditions.

Individual renegotiation of your remuneration package just creates yet another set of employees on a different package. It also accelerates the race to POS18 as you never really know what the guy before you accepted! The company love this cretinous and greedy behaviour!

Some may even classify it as direct entry captain recruitment?

Name and shame perhaps?

[Flex88]

Some captains have been invited into their fleet offices by their CP's and offered extensions beyond 55. Same salary, no housing, COS18 medical and 900 hours a year.
Another kick in the nuts for FO's awaiting a command and those of us who ticked the "once only" offer to extend to 65.

Another fine example of how indifferent CP's FTM's etc. are to the plight of others who are struggling to remain relevant in what was once a great and respected career. All this simply to massage their massive egos at the expense of others. I'm important, I was selected from the best to be a manager, I'm powerful.... Puke.

[unitedabx]

That is not an extension, it is an individually negotiated bad deal involving turning up to work the day after you are 55 and doing the exact same job for less. Losers!

It is not an “extension” which would by definition be an extended term on your current conditions.

Individual renegotiation of your remuneration package just creates yet another set of employees on a different package. It also accelerates the race to POS18 as you never really know what the guy before you accepted! The company love this cretinous and greedy behaviour!

Some may even classify it as direct entry captain recruitment?

Name and shame perhaps?

I don't think this warrants name and shame. We already have one pilot on D scale which he negotiated himself. It merely shows how desperate the fleet offices are getting. Private deals might suit some but they will be private deals so cannot be tolerated by the union or other pilots. God knows what other aspects of a private deal would entail ? Reporting flightdeck conversations perhaps. Who likes a drink down route. Who bad mouths the company.

[flyingbynight]

Name and shame perhaps?

You're assuming these people have any shame in the first place.

[rsb]

One would assume then that as these individuals are showing ‘goodwill’ this would be against the spirit of Contract Compliance and therefore they will be ejected from the HKAOA?

[mngmt mole]

Everyone, focus on the bigger picture. The number of +55's that sign over will be a drop in the bucket. Three FO's resigned today alone. Fact. This company is imploding, and they desperately want you to be convinced otherwise. Instead of worrying about "seniority", worry about getting out of CX and establishing a career elsewhere. By making an issue of the 55's, you are giving the management evidence that you are intending on staying. Be smart.

[kahaha]

"B" scalers can work unimpeded until 65 at Cathay Dragon. Full T&C's , no reduction .

working unto 65 in HK, is this a bonus ?

[lessonlearnt]

Some captains have been invited into their fleet offices by their CP's and offered extensions beyond 55. Same salary, no housing, COS18 medical and 900 hours a year.
Another kick in the nuts for FO's awaiting a command and those of us who ticked the "once only" offer to extend to 65.


unfortunately this was always coming ....there is a massive pilot shortage looming on the horizon.
Only natural thing to do.

[humbleppl]

Semi- retirement

[ACMS]

Really Unitedabx——“Beyond 55 extensions are here”.....where ya been? Extensions past 55 were offered and taken by many many people as far back as when we had the bloody 747-200F. This is NOT a new idea and many FO’s were delayed before.
They extended a 777 STC last year on Cos99 past 55.....

That Horse bolted more than 20 years ago mate.....

A lot of us also lost out a lot when they started ASL in 1997 ( approx ) and employed a lot of DEC’s to fly the Freighter.

[unitedabx]

Really Unitedabx——“Beyond 55 extensions are here”.....where ya been? Extensions past 55 were offered and taken by many many people as far back as when we had the bloody 747-200F. This is NOT a new idea and many FO’s were delayed before.
They extended a 777 STC last year on Cos99 past 55.....

That Horse bolted more than 20 years ago mate.....

A lot of us also lost out a lot when they started ASL in 1997 ( approx ) and employed a lot of DEC’s to fly the Freighter.

My point is up to 3 months ago such extensions were not on offer. Some guys approached th company to extend and were told no. Now this has changed and the company is approaching the pilots.

[Frogman1484]

There are figures of about 300 pilots hitting 65 and 55 at the same time over the next year.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

This will be fun to watch to see who signs over, it will also be interesting seeing several hundred retire next year on top of the increasing resignation rate

[OK4Wire]

Frogman: as much as I would LOVE to see numbers like that, my figures show something closer to 45 next year and about 60 for the following year.

However, I believe we lost about 100 in 2014, when the retirement number should have been 12, and this year should have seen only 25 go, so we are seeing many multiples more leave.

[mr did]

OK4

The RA65 guys are easy to predict, RA55 not so much as there was a very big bulge of senior FOs who were after the bypass pay and didn't sign. A lot of those guys in their early 50s now with definitive numbers impossible to predict outside of our anti personnel department. Include the older guys who have just had enough of the CX crap and a number of 300 Captains may not be far off.

Even if 100 left it would be impossible to replace them with the current operation. No wonder offers are being made.

[Airbubba]

Training Ban is taking effect then it seems...

As I posted earlier:

Yep, it looks like it's all over but the shouting...

The time for direct pilot input has long gone it seems. As one of my friends there says, "the union has already been busted".

I would love to be wrong on this one.
__________

Perhaps you feel the sacking of your colleagues deserves a hiring ban for others while continuing to train and accept upgrades yourselves.

I'll certainly honor the hiring band. I could never pass the tests or afford the cut in pay. However, I agree with others here that if you're not willing to do more yourselves for your fallen comrades, your threats of name calling to outsiders will sound hollow indeed.

Anyway, please prove me wrong and take the bull by the horns!

[ 18 August 2001: Message edited by: Airbubba ]



https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/2585-letter-49-r-3.html#post30829

[JPJP]

300 pilots hitting 65 and 55 at the same time over the next year.

Thats quite a cunning trick.

[Numero Crunchero]

Frogman: as much as I would LOVE to see numbers like that, my figures show something closer to 45 next year and about 60 for the following year.

However, I believe we lost about 100 in 2014, when the retirement number should have been 12, and this year should have seen only 25 go, so we are seeing many multiples more leave.

Ok4wire pretty close to my figures - though you departures for 2014 are too high according to my figures.

[Air Profit]

I don't think CX is prepared in any way to deal with the tsunami of resignations that is about to hit them. This has only been the warm up act to date. The main show is about to begin.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

I've been hearing about the wave of resignations coming for the last 18 months and not enough has happened to truly worry the company. What makes you think or know the wave is coming . Not having a go, genuinely curious if anyone has hard facts because just someone saying in the flight deck they are looking at other options does not mean they are leaving

[Air Profit]

Your premise is incorrect. The resignations are concerning the company, but they have decided to bluff it out. There is obviously another agenda at play, because a management who truly cared about the long term health and safety of the airline would be alarmed at what is happening, and would be doing far more to ensure satisfied employees. As for number, as mentioned earlier, 4 on Monday alone...and many more in the midst of securing employment elsewhere. Come back in 12 months and we can debate the facts instead of the rumour. I'll stand on the fact that I know of many individuals who are awaiting interviews, course dates or at the very least are getting their applications in. COS18 has stripped away any illusions as to what awaits them if they stay with CX. Not many that I know are willing to risk wasting any more time with an airline that plainly doesn't value them, and in fact treats them with utter contempt (example:higher housing to a new hire than someone who's been here 10 years !). Not much more to say. CX management have said all anyone needs to hear.

[Farman Biplane]

How many have signed over to COS18 already as they approach 55? Does anyone have any numbers?

[AQIS Boigu]

That 777 STC was a poor negotiator.

POS18 will not work for a normal B scale family who is renting, a couple kids at an ESF or international school or at boarding school overseas.

POS18 is designed for commuters or if the kids have moved out and CX already paid off a flat.

Why on earth would you take such a huge pay cut just to continue working for CX? I know...staff travel seniority!

[Slasher1]

I cannot fathom the complete lack of situational awareness of a person who would not only extend his employment under inferior conditions but also want to engage in staff travel in retirement down the road. Knowing full well the ramifications of POS 18 on safety.

[Freehills]

Viagra has much to answer for would be my guess... alimony and a new young family to support

[Arfur Dent]

Also, when you're staring 55 in the face and you are fit and well, it does seem too young to retire. There is a certain value to staying where you are and working for the "devil you know", especially if you own your own house in HKG. It's not all about money. In 2003-6 many pilots went from the 747-400 back to the 747-200F on a much lower salary for a few years until the RA65 came in and they went back to the -400 on original conditions etc. At the time it was an excellent deal and those pilots were employed usefully for another 10 years. It was a transition time and, of course, some FOs were delayed in getting Commands. It happened in Airlines all over the world too.
Things change and - of course the comment about Viagra may be relevant too. If you expect senior guys to retire early when they don't have to, I think you're deluded and you probably would do the same as they are doing.

[Frogman1484]

Arfur, don’t come crying on how your conditions are so **** once you accept the deal. Just like the 747 guy who used they jokers to move to the 747 when the airbus rosters were bad. Now they stuck on a crap fleet and want to change the deal they signed for in the first place, and expect the rest of us to give up concessions for them to improve their conditions

[claraball]

Frog. Apples and oranges. Arfur makes a valid point. What are these concessions you are in fear of being asked to give up? Do you think you're entitled to command at a certain wicket? Where is that promise written down because I missed that. Or is it that you are worried about being kicked off of the "good" fleet onto the other one? Where is the guarantee that you get to stay on a certain fleet? I suspect you could use a little empathy in raising the conditions you agreed to. Might you have a little empathy for others and see if that comes back to assist you? Don't let the paranoid outlook of those like RF who created this mess for all of us affect your ability to empathise with your colleagues who may not look like you or be your age.

[Arfur Dent]

Frogman - Can you read my post again. I'm not crying about anything (did you read the bit about "excellent deal"??). I was lucky to be offered a 200F job at 55 and took it gladly. Didn't really care about salary but it was pretty good for an "early retirement" slot. Went back onto the -400/777 anyway so it was a bloody good decision. As I said, when the retirement age changes by 10 years some Commands will be delayed but those people will get to work until 65 instead of 55. Claraball makes a good point too. "Command" is not a given anyway.

[bringbackthe80s]

Sorry to slid reality into the thread, but 99% of airline pilots worldwide work to 65 years of age. And these are the companies many on here think are great to go fork for.

[Xwindldg]

And that is why this TB/CC is a complete piece of s### for SO/FOs. You're delaying your upgrade and fighting 99% of this battle while guys like these in the last few posts sit fat dumb and happy with absolutely nothing to lose!

[flyhardmo]

Anyone who signs over to Cos 18 is legitimising an absolutely crap contract and helping the company screw over everyone.
It’s a Pilot’s market out there. Go out and get a job on a descent contract rather than f@ç# over your comrades. COS18 is the company’s permanent fix to all of those pesky pilots having a voice to stop the rot.

[Veruka Salt]

xwindldg,

I hate to burst your bubble, but an end to CC/TB does not lead to a promotion bonanza!

The company is quite content to grow at a glacial pace, in particular due HKIA operational constraints. They have also realised considerable cost savings in 2 x SO ops (one example) so, sadly, that is here to stay. Similarly, crewing efficiencies via the CMP - fewer crew needed.

So it’s going to be 5 years to FO, and 12 -15 years to command, just like many other legacy airlines.

I sure hope people don’t vote for an inferior agreement in the mistaken belief they’ll suddenly see a promotion.

[Tea time]

Personally , if I were on COS 99 and approaching 55 , I would look at any number of Far East carriers that are offering really good money with commuting rosters in preference to sighting over to COS 18

[CX ex]

Sorry to slid reality into the thread, but 99% of airline pilots worldwide work to 65 years of age. And these are the companies many on here think are great to go fork for.

100% are able to, the reality is that only about 90% make it.

The big difference is that its known, and the years before retirement are generally with great schedules and topped out pay. Not on concessionary terms subject to company scheduling abuse.

[viking avenger]

$305,000 US$ at Hainan tax free better than any POS18 Pay scale. See the Banner ad on PPRUNE.org