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Loose rivets
11th Nov 2018, 12:25
I know I live in the dream-world of the aged right now, but glanced at the Schengen on Google and was astonished to see money wanted for 'Schengen' visas. What's happening? Which is a polite way of saying, WTF?

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Nov 2018, 12:49
I know I live in the dream-world of the aged right now, but glanced at the Schengen on Google and was astonished to see money wanted for 'Schengen' visas. What's happening? Which is a polite way of saying, WTF?
"What's happening" is something called "#brexit".

Sometimes, not that often but just sometimes, you get what you vote for.

747 jock
11th Nov 2018, 13:09
"What's happening" is something called "#brexit".

Sometimes, not that often but just sometimes, you get what you vote for.
Utter rubbish.
The Schengen visa scheme has been in operation for at least 9 years (and quite possibly far longer) as someone I used to work with was required to get one back in 2009.

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Nov 2018, 13:32
Utter rubbish.
The Schengen visa scheme has been in operation for at least 9 years (and quite possibly far longer) as someone I used to work with was required to get one back in 2009.
Yes, what's not rubbish is that UK citizens (well, those who don't qualify for an Irish passport) will have to start paying. Because of #brexit.

flash8
11th Nov 2018, 14:33
The Schengen visa scheme has been in operation for at least 9 years (and quite possibly far longer) as someone I used to work with was required to get one back in 2009.
Visa scheme has been active at least two decades... and Schengen itself over thirty years or so. I recall Russians applying in the late 90's.

Pontius Navigator
11th Nov 2018, 14:58
Visas are like tracer, they f*** up both sides.

Capt Scribble
11th Nov 2018, 15:18
There is no reason that visa free access to the Schengen area for UK passport holders can not be negotiated like has been done for many other countries in the world. As it would be done on a reciprocal basis, it should be pretty simple. Unless, the evil empire wishes to be spiteful. So, best I download the application form. You will need proof of medical insurance and accommodation/travel bookings for a start.

747 jock
11th Nov 2018, 15:19
Visa scheme has been active at least two decades... and Schengen itself over thirty years or so. I recall Russians applying in the late 90's.
"at least two decades" but according to some, it's still the fault of Brexit.

TangoAlphad
11th Nov 2018, 15:24
"at least two decades" but according to some, it's still the fault of Brexit.
I wouldn't say the fault of, I just think some people are surprised that crashing out of the EU means we may need a visa to visit the Schengen area! :ugh:

VP959
11th Nov 2018, 15:41
I wouldn't say the fault of, I just think some people are surprised that crashing out of the EU means we may need a visa to visit the Schengen area! :ugh:

"May" being the operative word.

Right now we have no idea what may or may not be required. My best guess is that as there are loads of people (truck drivers and the like) travelling both ways every day there will be some form of agreement, as there is now. We may be in the EU, but we're not within the Schengen area at the moment. Will Ireland (just to take one example of a border that thousands cross every day) be happy if the UK (post-Brexit) requires visas? I doubt it, and suspect that many other EU states will not want to have to get visas to travel to the UK, either. It's entirely possible that the EU would not allow a visa-free travel deal, but they then face as much, or more, hassle if we choose to retaliate by requiring all EU state citizens to have a UK visa in order to enter.

As usual, we're seeing loads of stupid posturing all round, with doomsday scenarios being put forward as if they were exactly what is going to happen.

PDR1
11th Nov 2018, 15:42
Well from the sounds of it those who are surprised are brexit-proponents. You have to make allowances because they're unlikely to be particularly bright.

PDR

M.Mouse
11th Nov 2018, 15:59
What an arrogant statement.

Bob Viking
11th Nov 2018, 16:10
That last post does make you sound like a bit of a 🔔. I expect better from you.

As I said in a post on another thread earlier this week. I will not lose a wink of sleep about anything Brexit related until at least April 2019. Unless you are in the negotiating room with the politicians you will not have the faintest clue what is actually going on.

If it does turn out to be all your worst fears come true then why not just enjoy your last few months of prosperity before your whole world comes crashing down.

BV

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Nov 2018, 16:11
What an arrogant statement.
There is plenty of research showing an inverse correlation between educational achievement and tendency to vote for #brexit, so that's more of a "factual" statement than an "arrogant" one.

Here's one - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-education-higher-university-study-university-leave-eu-remain-voters-educated-a7881441.html - but there are plenty of others, just Google "brexit education correlation".

Krystal n chips
11th Nov 2018, 16:24
Irrespective of whether or not a visa will be required, it won't be a problem..........the British are famed for their love of queues and, in this instance, better still we can have our own elitist and separate queue.......that's Britain really showing the world whose who !

paulc
11th Nov 2018, 16:42
Brexit is much more than the possibilty of needing a visa to visit the shengen area. So what if we do?

If brexiters are dumb, can remainiacs explain diane abott?

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Nov 2018, 16:55
can remainiacs explain diane abott?
C'mon, nobody can explain Diane Abbott.

PDR1
11th Nov 2018, 17:03
If brexiters are dumb, can remainiacs explain diane abott?
The exception that proves the rule, obviously.

PDR

KelvinD
11th Nov 2018, 17:04
I had a smashing row over a Schengen visa when I was living in Germany. Returning from a visit to UK, I drove off the ferry and we were singled out for a passport check. My missus was a Filipino national and Schengen not withstanding she had to get visas to go to places like Spain, France etc. We never bothered over a visa for France as the routine was "swan in and swan out".
The French border official was a hoot. He wore a full length leather overcoat and he looked for all the world like a John Cleese character but was missing the cardboard sign around the neck saying "Gestapo". Anyway, we got into an argument, he threatening to put us back on the boat, me saying "bog off" etc. In the end I crumbled and asked what were the options. "Either we issue her a visa here at Calais or you go back." came the answer. OK I said, let's have the visa issued here. Aah, he said, it will cost me triple the normal fee. Go ahead I replied. He said "Are you sure? It will cost 600 Francs". Then the fun began: Oh not it won't said I, Oh yes it will said he (and it wasn't even panto season!) Eventually, I thought I out to put an end to this as I wanted to be on my way. I pointed out that a Schengen visa for the family of a European national was free. Still he argued, saying it normally cost 200 Francs so three times 200 was 600. No, when I was at school three times zero was, more or less, zero. Fortunately, his uniformed man on duty got on his computer, turned around and said, in English, he is right, the fee is zero. Cue for one Gestapo coated immigration super sleuth to harrumph loudly and to stalk off into the night. His uniformed colleague smiled and said I could resume my journey. At the time, I had little doubt that Ober Leutnant Pierre would have pocketed the cash and it would have resurfaced in one of the local bars.
On the other hand, stupidity is not the exclusive domain of the French. Ahead of a work trip to Portugal, I decided I would take the wife with me and arranged visas for her for Portugal and Spain. This was all done at short notice and it was only when I got the passport back from the Spanish that I noticed the visa granted her a single entry only. That was going to be tricky as her return to Germany would see us having to go via Spain. Hmm. A small problemette; I didn't have time to go back to the Spanish consulate in Frankfurt. So we set off the next day. Having gone across Spain the general direction of the Douro valley, we came to the border and as I passed the gaily coloured flags, I breezed right past the Portuguese border guards who were sitting in a couple of comfy chairs. They waved at me so, being polite, I chose to interpret their waving as a friendly greeting but didn't stop. They shrugged and sat back down in their comfy chairs! When it came time to head home, I chose a quiet crossing point on the Portuguese/Spanish border and we all sat down for lunch at a cafe overlooking the border post. When I saw the Spanish guards head in for their lunch, we all got in the car and drove serenely by. And that fixed that problem!

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Nov 2018, 17:13
When I saw the Spanish guards head in for their lunch, we all got in the car and drove serenely by.
I know a place on the Austria - Slovenia border[#] where that doesn't quite work - when they go off to lunch they lower a barrier across the road.

But this only stops cars, not pedestrians (we walked across whilst it was closed) or motorbikes, who had room to get round the end of the barrier (as we observed others doing). So the trick there is for the dodgy person to walk across at lunch time, and wait in the pub the other side until the car (with the non-dodgy person driving) can cross. The fact that the immigration officials are probably having their lunch in the same pub and watching the entire proceedings almost certainly wouldn't bother them in that part of the world.

[#] I think. It was somewhere around there anyway.

Pontius Navigator
11th Nov 2018, 17:30
In Turkey they like to take a nice crisp £10 off you as you approach the immigration desk. I had mine issued at the Embassy in London. One very pissed off Turk.

The rules were quite specific, £10 note each. Next time we duly got a tenner each. It was not a problem, the couple ahead of us had a twenty. I hope they changed them to plastic .

Mr Optimistic
11th Nov 2018, 18:50
So what to all this ( but perhaps I am not very bright). It won't be the first time the continent has been cut-off.

cattletruck
12th Nov 2018, 10:28
Got my first Schengen visa back in 1994, issued by the French embassy, can't remember if Francs changed hands, but did get a few more re-issues later on. Are they now worth something?

Was reading an article by Boris Johnson's brother on how he feels the current form of Brexit will revert GB to a colony status in Europe. Germany wins again.

ATNotts
12th Nov 2018, 11:24
I must travel across some unusual borders in the Schengen area. as never once have I seen any uniformed border police on any border, though I do know that these days the German / Austrian border has checks, principally at the insistence of the right wing Austrian and Bavarian governments.

I was under the impression that a visa issued for the Schengen area was valid throughout the Schengen area, so once you were in, you were in, and I don't readily understand why someone from outside the Schengen area should have any difficulties in crossing an internal border but the stories related above would tend not to support that understanding.

As for UK citizens being required to have a Schengen visa post Brexit; as a remainer, and therefore one who ought, according to popular narrative, be peddling "project fear", I fail to see why UK subjects (I seem to recall we aren't officially citizens) should suddenly be required to buy a visa. It hasn't been the case since I started travelling to other European countries at the end of the 1960s, long before Schengen was even thought of, so unless our EU friends really want to rub UK people's noses in the brown sticky stuff, i can't see why they'd want to make things that much more difficult post Brexit. However until all this Brexit mess is resolved, one way or the other, I'm not forward buying any travel by air or surface beyond March 29th 2019.

KelvinD
12th Nov 2018, 13:56
I fail to see why UK subjects (I seem to recall we aren't officially citizens)
I became a British citizen in 1983 after the British Nationality Act 1981 came into force. Prior to that, I was a British subject. Just checked my passport and am happy to confirm I am still a British citizen!

CargoMatatu
12th Nov 2018, 14:57
I became a British citizen in 1983 after the British Nationality Act 1981 came into force. Prior to that, I was a British subject. Just checked my passport and am happy to confirm I am still a British citizen!

Me too.
I must say, most of these anecdotes above appear to relate to a long gone era many decades ago. But then the Brexit dream appears to suffer from the same malaise. :ugh:

ATNotts
12th Nov 2018, 15:35
I became a British citizen in 1983 after the British Nationality Act 1981 came into force. Prior to that, I was a British subject. Just checked my passport and am happy to confirm I am still a British citizen!

Thanks, I am well behind the times, but I think this urban myth is still very much alive, and I'm sure I heard it regurgitated in comparatively recent times. I suppose I spend more time reading my passport whilst waiting for a UK Border Agent to look at it. There's normally plenty of time!!

rvv500
12th Nov 2018, 18:15
I've been using a Schengen Visa for decades and travel to Schengen Countries regularly, atleast once in two months. There are no border checks in between Schengen Area countries. Only for Switzerland, Norway and Iceland which are non EU but part of Schengen, there is a customs border check, not immigration. UK and Ireland are non-Schengen.

Ancient Mariner
12th Nov 2018, 18:30
I've been using a Schengen Visa for decades and travel to Schengen Countries regularly, atleast once in two months. There are no border checks in between Schengen Area countries. Only for Switzerland, Norway and Iceland which are non EU but part of Schengen, there is a customs border check, not immigration. UK and Ireland are non-Schengen.
News to me that there is a border check in Norway, unless you arrive by air. By ferry or car, you may be singled out, though luck.
Happened to me thrice in 40 years and many hundreds border crossings.
Per

Gertrude the Wombat
12th Nov 2018, 23:15
unless you arrive by air
Whereas you can arrive in France from the UK by air, or by boat, and usually nobody, at either end, is interested in you, providing you're flying or sailing yourself.

Ancient Mariner
13th Nov 2018, 00:16
Whereas you can arrive in France from the UK by air, or by boat, and usually nobody, at either end, is interested in you, providing you're flying or sailing yourself.
Maybe I should add, unless you arrive from a Schengen country, of which Norway is one.
Per

eal401
13th Nov 2018, 12:23
What an arrogant statement.

Standard issue for Mr PDR. Funny thing is, he and his remain brethren strut about belittling people for a choice they made, completely unaware that their repulsive and arrogant behaviour actually helped the Leave campaign by turning people against Remain. Who is calling who stupid again?

To the original post - much posturing about the enforcement of Schengen Visas - which is of course a two way street.

Meanwhile, countless other countries have visa free entry for UK citizens that - assessing other countries permitted - is not a factor of EU membership. And those that don't usually require nothing more than 5 mins in front of a computer and a few £s. I have only visited 25 countries, the majority being non-EU and only 2 required paper visas stuck into the passport before travel. The vast majority issue visa on entry.

Obviously living and working is a different scenario - but one many thousands of emigrants to non-EU countries have coped with without a squeak.

rvv500
13th Nov 2018, 15:36
News to me that there is a border check in Norway, unless you arrive by air. By ferry or car, you may be singled out, though luck.
Happened to me thrice in 40 years and many hundreds border crossings.
Per

The Norway border check is only if you fly in from non-Schengen Country. Otherwise there is no immigration if you travel from a Schengen state. Been to Norway 4 times this year and crossed border by air from non-Schengen Countries [ UK ] and from Schengen countries by road. Only border immigration check was when I flew in from UK. Same is the case ever since Norway got into the Schengen zone.

hailstone
13th Nov 2018, 16:14
colleague of mine, Turkish national, applied and received a Schengen Visa for a Business trip to Ireland. Upon check in at IST, BA refused Transport, stating that a TRANSIT VISA for the UK is needed…. anybody hear About anything like this before ?

Bob Viking
13th Nov 2018, 17:08
Are we still worried?

Brexit: Britons 'won't need visas for EU visits' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46198478

BV

Ancient Mariner
13th Nov 2018, 18:34
The Norway border check is only if you fly in from non-Schengen Country. Otherwise there is no immigration if you travel from a Schengen state. Been to Norway 4 times this year and crossed border by air from non-Schengen Countries [ UK ] and from Schengen countries by road. Only border immigration check was when I flew in from UK. Same is the case ever since Norway got into the Schengen zone.
Corrected above. I know, I live here. ;)
Per

tescoapp
13th Nov 2018, 18:43
colleague of mine, Turkish national, applied and received a Schengen Visa for a Business trip to Ireland. Upon check in at IST, BA refused Transport, stating that a TRANSIT VISA for the UK is needed…. anybody hear About anything like this before ?

yes perfectly normal. Entering the EU you have to clear customs which means a trip ground side which requires UK visa requirements to be complied with. After Brexit they can remain airside and it won't be an issue.

Fareastdriver
13th Nov 2018, 18:53
Schengen Visa for a Business trip to Ireland

I understood that Eire was outside the Schengen area.

tescoapp
13th Nov 2018, 19:32
it is, its in the common travel area so quite why they got a shengen visa is confusing.

ORAC
13th Nov 2018, 19:58
KelvinD, different categories of UK passports - those borne in the CI and the IOM, for instance, have restricted rights of residence not only in the EU, but also on the UK mainland - and the converse also applies....

”How to tell what kind of UK passport you have

On the Biodata page of your passport, you should find a 3-letter code:

GBR - British Citizen (normal UK Passport)
GBD - British Overseas Territories Citizens *
GBO - British Overseas Citizens *
GBS - British Subjects *
GBP - British Protected Persons *
GBN - British National Overseas
To find out if you need a visa, contact the Consulate or Embassy (http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/foreign-embassy-in-the-uk/) of the country you plan to travel to.

* These passport classes have different regulations that apply to their eligibility to travel to countries in the European. For more information, visit our page on Non-EU British Passports (http://www.visabureau.com/worldwide/non-eu-british-passports.aspx).“

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_passport

British passports issued by the Jersey Government may have an endorsement included to the following effect:

“holder is not entitled to benefit from European Community Provisions relating to employment or establishment”

Although British citizens who have only a connection to Jersey are European Union citizens (an EU citizen being defined by the Treaty of Maastricht as a person holding the nationality of a Member State), they do not have EU Freedom of Movement Rights.

wiggy
13th Nov 2018, 21:59
Are we still worried?

Brexit: Britons 'won't need visas for EU visits' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46198478

BV





Depends who “we” are. If you are one of many thousands of U.K. passport holders /British nationals living full time in the EU 27 or indulging in long stays in the EU27, all quite legitimate under the current arrangements thanks to U.K. membership of the EU, then it is possible some might find any future Visa requirements or similar introduced as a result of Brexit as a serious PITA.

If OTOH your long stays or work takes you no further than Wales, Scotland or Blackpool, with the odd week or two in Med for a holiday then I’d agree, for the short term at least there’s nothing to worry about.

eal401
14th Nov 2018, 13:04
If OTOH your long stays or work takes you no further than Wales, Scotland or Blackpool, with the odd week or two in Med for a holiday then Iíd agree, for the short term at least thereís nothing to worry about.


What if you visit/live/work in one of the many countries outside of the EU?

Oh, wait, forgot those countries don't exist....

Blacksheep
14th Nov 2018, 13:41
I may be forgetful in my old age, but I'm sure I visited The Continent in years gone by with 'Visa on Arrival' - which implies reciprocal agreements in place.

My Uncle Lewis travelled all over Europe without a visa - or even a passport - but that was in 1944-45 when he and his mates were helping the inhabitants to return to peaceful democracy. It's such a shame they let it slip through their fingers.

Bob Viking
14th Nov 2018, 14:51
Since nobody has actually decided anything yet and in view of the fact that the concession I have already highlighted has been made maybe we could all just wait and see?

No amount of teeth gnashing on our part will change a thing.

I realise this will affect you personally a lot more than me but I suspect itíll all be fine. The EU gains nothing by making travel difficult for lots of Brits with spending money.

Having said that that whilst on my travels I often find Brits abroad the most obnoxious and loud of any nationality. Maybe Iím just over sensitive to it because I feel that I get tarred with the same brush. If I were the EU maybe I would want to discourage Brits from visiting!

BV

Training Risky
14th Nov 2018, 15:17
I may be forgetful in my old age, but I'm sure I visited The Continent in years gone by with 'Visa on Arrival' - which implies reciprocal agreements in place.

My Uncle Lewis travelled all over Europe without a visa - or even a passport - but that was in 1944-45 when he and his mates were helping the inhabitants to return to peaceful democracy. It's such a shame they let it slip through their fingers.

Isn't there a great joke about an old fella who arrives in France and is asked for his passport and visa by a pompous Frenchman, only to reply "The last time I came to this country I marched straight onto the beach without a passport...and I couldn't find a single Frenchman anywhere to challenge me!"

Nemrytter
14th Nov 2018, 19:19
What an arrogant statement.But a correct statement. The average brexiteer seems about as bright as an EU-mandated energy efficient lightbulb.:E