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N707ZS
9th Nov 2018, 06:08
We just seem to sit back in the UK and let the fuel companies take us for a ride my local supermarket latest price is 1.27 for petrol but 1.37 for diesel. I recently went to Spain and there the petrol is more expensive than the diesel. Is it that the Spanish wouldn't let they're government get away with it or are we just getting ripped off in the UK and we just sit back and take it.

ExSp33db1rd
9th Nov 2018, 06:26
New Zealand .. 95 grade, approx $2.40 per LITRE slightly variable depending upon which Robber Baron one is buying from.
​​​​​​​around 5 quid + per UK gallon.

sitigeltfel
9th Nov 2018, 06:52
New Zealand .. 95 grade, approx $2.40 per LITRE slightly variable depending upon which Robber Baron one is buying from.
​​​​​​​around 5 quid + per UK gallon.

When I first started driving, you could get four gallons for a quid!

Filled up with 95RON yesterday, it was 1.44 a litre, (around 1.25).

johngreen
9th Nov 2018, 06:58
Enjoy that bargain while you can Speedy!

Regular unleaded at my local here on the border of SE London, which generally is as cheap if not slightly cheaper than the alternatives, is presently 1.32/litre ie. 6 per UK gallon...

Pontius Navigator
9th Nov 2018, 07:06
And heaven forbid you need fuel on a motor way with a 20p/ltr mark up and some people pay.

A 3p/ltr is not so bad.

ZH875
9th Nov 2018, 08:37
Shell garage on the A421 at Marston Moretaine diesel is 146.9 per litre

why do they insist on xxx.9?

DType
9th Nov 2018, 08:53
Yes, motorway prices are so extreme that last time I only put in 10 litres.
BIG mistake.
The bill has never come through - it was the CHEAPEST petrol I have ever "bought".
So it is true - You can't lose them all.

Tankertrashnav
9th Nov 2018, 10:10
The oil companies always come back with the old red herring about the major part of the retail price being tax/duty. That is true but this is a pro rata percentage no matter what the basic pre tax price is, and does not in any way excuse them from not dropping the price when the wholesale price goes down - after all they are quick enough to raise it when prices are going the other way. Why doesn't some government body (monopolies commission?) take them to task over this?

Actually this hardly affects me - I drive so little these days I have no idea what I spend on petrol per month or what the mpg of my old tank of a Volvo is, but I feel for my son who clocks up a big mileage paid for out of his own pocket

Finally, we have been buying petrol in litres for at least 30 years now - why do we still talk about mpg? Has anyone in the UK any idea how many miles per litre their car does, or indeed litres per 100 km which is the way the continentals do it?

Mariner9
9th Nov 2018, 11:49
I recently went to Spain and there the petrol is more expensive than the diesel. Is it that the Spanish wouldn't let they're government get away with it or are we just getting ripped off in the UK and we just sit back and take it.

I I recently went to England and there the diesel is more expensive than the petrol. Is it that the British wouldn't let their government get away with it or are getting ripped off in Spain and we just sit back and take it?

Andy_S
9th Nov 2018, 12:00
Part of the problem in the UK is refinery capacity; we have a comparative shortage of diesel production compared to petrol.

Jhieminga
9th Nov 2018, 12:20
Funnily enough petrol (regular unleaded) is often cheaper in the UK than it is in The Netherlands. We're now enjoying a, by comparison, pretty low price of 1.52 per liter (lowest I can find in the neighbourhood), which is approx. 1.33. The average price is around 1.59 per liter with motorway stations asking for 1.70 per liter.

farci
9th Nov 2018, 15:40
I I recently went to England and there the diesel is more expensive than the petrol. Is it that the British wouldn't let their government get away with it or are getting ripped off in Spain and we just sit back and take it?
Only in UK(?) amongst European countries is diesel more expensive. I always assumed that 20% of that is VAT and haulage companies can reclaim as input tax?

sitigeltfel
9th Nov 2018, 17:05
There is to be a nationwide protest against high fuel prices on Sat 17th November here in France, with road blocks being set up to disrupt traffic.
I'll just stay at home that day.

Info and map here...

https://www.thelocal.fr/20181106/map-where-in-france-you-should-expect-road-blocks-this-november

DType
9th Nov 2018, 17:13
I have a vague recollection that years ago the Chancellor was worried that the rush to fuel efficient diesel cars would rob him of revenue, so he made sure taxpayer couldn't win by imposing a tax differential between petrol and diesel.
Of course, I could be wrong about that.

Hussar 54
9th Nov 2018, 18:46
When I first started driving, you could get four gallons for a quid!

Filled up with 95RON yesterday, it was 1.44 a litre, (around 1.25).


In summer 1966 I had a Sunday job at a filling station in Sth Manchester and can remember quite clearly that a gallon of petrol ( we didn't sell diesel ) was 4 / 2p, so five gallons for what is now 1.05p

I wonder if there is anything else which has risen in price by the same percentage as petrol / diesel has since 1966 ?

Gertrude the Wombat
9th Nov 2018, 18:54
When I first started driving, you could get four gallons for a quid!
Yes, that's right, and tanks were smaller then so that was a tank full.

45989
9th Nov 2018, 19:06
In old money i used to fill my 124 fiat coupe (20 gal) for a fiver ( was parity then)
now slightly more modern fiat coupe costs (60 lt) on average 85 euro. (dont live in UK)

ChrisVJ
9th Nov 2018, 19:25
This is what Idon't understand.

Back in the day when oil was $140 a barrel we could buy gas at 80 to 99c a litre. Now oil is down around $70 a barrel (and it has been down to $50.) we are paying $1.49 a litre. Someone somewhere is making (ripping us off for) the difference but no one seems able to tell us who.

Planet Basher
9th Nov 2018, 19:49
This is what Idon't understand.

Back in the day when oil was $140 a barrel we could buy gas at 80 to 99c a litre. Now oil is down around $70 a barrel (and it has been down to $50.) we are paying $1.49 a litre. Someone somewhere is making (ripping us off for) the difference but no one seems able to tell us who.

I was just thinking the same myself, the price we are paying is, I am guessing, the same as it was when oil was over $100.00 a barrel.

Katamarino
9th Nov 2018, 20:44
The government is the one raking in the cash. Petrol is a completely non - differentiated product, it's basically the same whoever you buy it from, and there are plenty of producers so margins are razer thin. Just look at the differences in price, EU vs US vs Middle East for example. The only difference is that EU governments massively shaft the population.

tdracer
9th Nov 2018, 21:34
The government is the one raking in the cash.
Exactly - automotive fuel in Europe/UK is massively expensive because the governments tax the heck out of it. Last time I filled up in Washington it was $3.499 for Premium ('regular' was about 20 cents cheaper) ~ $0.92/liter, about 68 cents per gallon is state and federal gas tax (which is supposedly earmarked for road construction and repair).
You need to pay for that socialized medicine somehow :}
Diesel tends to be a bit higher than gasoline - partly because the tax is a bit higher. Diesel has a higher energy content per unit volume than gasoline (~10% IIRC) so the better fuel mileage with Diesel isn't only due to Diesels being more efficient.

Tankertrashnav
9th Nov 2018, 22:43
tdracer - its really a good job petrol/diesel is so much cheaper in the US as I am guessing that annual mileages driven are way higher. Basically the US is a big country with big spread out towns and cities. I remember getting a hire car in Omaha (not exactly the largest city in the US) and driving around 140 miles in a 24 hour period without leaving the city. Here I would regard a 300 mile trip as a long drive - an acquaintance in Texas makes a 100 mile round trip to go to the supermarket (mine is 6 miles) in an SUV which probably doesnt do 20 mpg. I guess in the end the average annual spend on motor fuel in the two countries isn't much different.

So that leaves you scratching around for your medical insurance! :}

Gertrude the Wombat
9th Nov 2018, 22:48
I remember getting a hire car in Omaha (not exactly the largest city in the US) and driving around 140 miles in a 24 hour period without leaving the city.
On a business tip in Dallas. Host turns up at my hotel "OK, we're going out to dinner now".

We get in his car. He drives out of the hotel car park, onto the freeway, off again one exit further down, into the restaurant car park.

Yes, you've guessed it! - the restaurant was next door to the hotel, and we could have walked from one to the other if only there hadn't been a fence between the two car parks.

Another example: Half the street lighting in the USA is actually in car parks ("area lighting" is apparently the jargon). Yup, for every street light actually lighting the street they've got another one lighting a car park. Boggle, basically, just boggle.

tdracer
10th Nov 2018, 03:17
TTN, I'm quite familiar with how far we have to drive. Several years ago, I was driving my rig to Wisconsin for a race at Road America. I'd stopped in western Montana to spend the night - next day I drove over 600 miles before again stopping for the night - and I was still in Montana. :eek: Backing when we had the 55 mph speed limit, a long haul trucker was quoted as saying "Driving across Texas at 55 isn't a job, it's a F:mad:ing career!" When I was a younger, I routinely drove 800 mile days - occasionally over 900 miles.

Half the street lighting in the USA is actually in car parks
Gertrude, care to share a source for that claim? I find that highly improbable unless they considered every street where parking is allowed as 'car parks'...

Kiltrash
10th Nov 2018, 03:21
Just reporting in from Las Vegas and the local Unleaded appeared to cost me $3.579 per US Gallon and my calculations appear to show equivalent is 0.79p per litre ....and in the bar afterwards the locals were whinging about the price🙂

having also been to Mexico on this trip and litre is 20.5 pesos which is 0.92p ...and guess what....they are also whinging about the price😂

what will be will be

ExSp33db1rd
10th Nov 2018, 03:23
When I first started driving, you could get four gallons for a quid!

Straight after WWII, my father put the car on the road again - a Morris 8, complete with starting handle ! - and paid 1/9d per gallon (fourpence halfpenny a litre? ) He had a fit when it went up to half-a-crown ( 2.6d ) not long afterwards.

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Nov 2018, 07:52
Gertrude, care to share a source for that claim? I find that highly improbable unless they considered every street where parking is allowed as 'car parks'...
I worked in the street lighting business for a few years. This was stuff our marketroids researched.

Pontius Navigator
10th Nov 2018, 08:12
In old money i used to fill my 124 fiat coupe (20 gal) for a fiver ( was parity then)
now slightly more modern fiat coupe costs (60 lt) on average 85 euro. (dont live in UK)
Did you have a long range tank in your boot? My Triumph 1300 had a huge 11.8g tank with most cars having only 8.

dook
10th Nov 2018, 13:37
Our runabout is a Smart.

The tank holds 30 litres and it is refuelled every four to five weeks.

In many ways quite a sophisticated little piece of kit which I drive using the paddle gear shifters, but the designers forgot to add suspension. Tyres last forever.


.

BAengineer
10th Nov 2018, 14:22
having also been to Mexico on this trip and litre is 20.5 pesos which is 0.92p ...and guess what....they are also whinging about the price😂




Considering the average daily wage is $17USD I think they have every right to be whinging..;)

DType
10th Nov 2018, 18:34
Since a Scotch Pie has gone up from 3d in the 1950s to 50p today (= 40x), then surely a litre of petrol should now cost 1.98?
Oops, hope the Chancellor doesn't read Jet Blast!

Pappa Smurf
10th Nov 2018, 23:33
Most countries only have different fuel prices depending on the tax on fuel.

nonsense
11th Nov 2018, 10:12
The relative prices of diesel and petrol in an entirely different market are irrelevant. The cost of production of petrol and diesel are related (by the cost of oil) yet also vary independently, since they use different parts of the crude oil.
Crude oil from different sources has different characteristics; some is suited to making more diesel at the expense of petrol, some the other way around.
Furthermore, different nations and even different regions of larger nations may have different ratios of demand for petrol and diesel.

If you live somewhere where the oil suits making diesel, but the demand is for petrol, then diesel is likely to be cheap.
If you live somewhere like South Eastern Australia, where Bass Strait crude oil is lighter, well suited to making petrol and less suited to producing diesel, and if diesel utes and 4wds (SUVs if you're American) have become much more common in recent years, then diesel will almost inevitably tend to be more expensive than petrol.

There is absolutely no reason to expect diesel and petrol to be the same price per litre, nor is there any reason to expect that because diesel is, say, 5% more expensive than petrol in Australia, then it should also be 5% more expensive in California or Spain or Saigon or Sunderland.

tdracer
11th Nov 2018, 20:45
I worked in the street lighting business for a few years. This was stuff our marketroids researched.

Sorry Gertrude, but unless they used some strange definition of a 'car park' - such as counting streets where parking is allowed as previously mentioned - that claim doesn't remotely pass the sniff test.

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Nov 2018, 21:03
Sorry Gertrude, but unless they used some strange definition of a 'car park' - such as counting streets where parking is allowed as previously mentioned - that claim doesn't remotely pass the sniff test.
Dunno what your "sniff test" is, but I'm happy to go with research reports that professionals have been paid lots of money to compile.

In particular, one state energy company was letting contracts for smart controls for its lighting (it's the energy companies, apparently, who run the street lights rather than local councils as in the UK). They were letting two contracts. One for 600,000 (in round numbers) street lights, and the other for 600,000 (in round numbers) "area", ie car park, lights. Different contracts because potentially different control systems wanted - there's a theory that you can save money by only switching on lights in car parks when IR or motion detectors spot people walking about, but the police don't like that because the bad guys (who have sussed out how to dress so as not to trigger the lights) can then follow the lights to attack the good guys, whilst the good guys, even if properly tooled up as the gun nutters think they should be, can't see the bad guys because they bad guys are where the lights are switched off.