Norway's warship collides with tanker in fjord

[DirtyProp]

Not strictly aviation material, but still...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46136564

Norway has evacuated all 137 crew from one of its warships after it collided in a fjord with a Maltese oil tanker.

Eight people were lightly injured in the collision in the Hjeltefjord near Bergen. The KNM Helge Ingstad frigate has been listing dangerously.

The warship had been returning from Nato military exercises. The tanker, the Sola TS, was slightly damaged and it appears that it did not spill oil.

The incident led to the shutdown of a major oil terminal and a gas plant.

[MPN11]

Keep scrolling down that BBC report ... that is a very unhappy ship, and a Captain whose career has suffered similiar damage.

[TowerDog]

Happened twice to US warships, must be something about grey ships, they just won’t keep their distance.

[glad rag]

Can't see what your on about, has it been redacted now?

[TowerDog]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1900x1207/1df7db8a_ceb2_4697_9986_74a6e9d855a7_9e86caf4df696b9ae19d928 786795c756b00a17f.jpeg

[MPN11]

It. Will. Buff. Out.


Sorry, not really a subject for humour .,, very sad all round.

From the earlier video, it seemed the tugs were shoving her into the shallows to facilitate subsequent recovery.

[KenV]

Not a lot of detail here, but it seems like damage control must have been marginal if the ship has essentially sunk, albeit in very shallow water.

[TowerDog]

Yes, the ship was pushed into shallow waters to prevent sinking.
AIS was turned off, not that it would have made a big difference as the tanker could hardly maneuver on short notice.
Some warships also turn off the navigation lights, should be outlawed in piece time.

[M609]

Not a lot of detail here, but it seems like damage control must have been marginal if the ship has essentially sunk, albeit in very shallow water.

Well, perhaps, or perhaps not......

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/768x432/hing_bilde_1_fd681e4e18af326a687e14120c24169ca8c02de7.jpg

[Asturias56]

I think they only have 5 and 1 is maybe laid up or in deep maintenance

not funny when 20% of your Navy goes south...........

[MPN11]

That has the look of being struck by the ‘blob’ on the bow of the tanker.

Perhaps there’s a serviceable dry dock somewhere nearby? ;)

[SASless]

Not a lot of detail here, but it seems like damage control must have been marginal if the ship has essentially sunk, albeit in very shallow water.

Moving the ship into shallow water WAS the damage control.

That was a very good decision by someone who was certainly thinking on their feet in a very difficult situation.

Now it is a re-float and repair operation rather than marking a submerged wreck as a permanent hazard to navigation.

[NutLoose]

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/world/article221338960.html


Reports are she lost her jet fuel through leakage and the propulsion is now under water as the stern sank, I wonder if she has her helicopter still on board, would you tend to shut the hangar door after wheeling it out prior to launching it? The other doors appear left open.

It would not surprise me if she gets scrapped, there is a lot of structural damage, power plant and a lot of electronics probably under water.

[NutLoose]

Boom seems a bit none effective

https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2018/11/norwegian-frigate-takes-water-after-collision

[F-16GUY]

That has the look of being struck by the ‘blob’ on the bow of the tanker.

Perhaps there’s a serviceable dry dock somewhere nearby? ;)

Nope! That one went down a week ago or so, with the pride of another countrys navy.....

https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/614907-russian-carrier-woes.html

[tdracer]

Most of the US ships sunk during the Pearl Harbor attack were refloated, repaired, and returned to duty before WW II was over - and they were in far worse shape than this one (the notable exceptions being the Arizona and Utah - which are still there as permanent memorials - and the Oklahoma which was refloated but somehow sank in deep water while being towed to the mainland to be scrapped).

[Airbubba]

Video of the tugs pushing the ship to ground it in this article (Tower Dog can translate):

https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/yv2kBa/Tankskip-og-fregatt-kolliderte-ved-Oygarden--krigsskipet-mistet-styringen?fbclid=IwAR0-ouBwFfxzlpwiDm7_QZJAorLTpVUR-YHBfswKSqsaOjKhdrCmy4F6qVw

[NutLoose]

Most of the US ships sunk during the Pearl Harbor attack were refloated, repaired, and returned to duty before WW II was over - and they were in far worse shape than this one (the notable exceptions being the Arizona and Utah - which are still there as permanent memorials - and the Oklahoma which was refloated but somehow sank in deep water while being towed to the mainland to be scrapped).

I can understand that, but these will probably be crammed full of electronics simply to flush the bog.. I would imagine most of that will need replacing if submerged

[212man]

Now it is a re-float and repair operation rather than marking a submerged wreck as a permanent hazard to navigation.

Probably would not be necessary - it's over 1200 ft deep!

[ORAC]

Courtesy of Slartibartfast......

[Jumping_Jack]

Love the bit in the footage where the Frigate suddenly lurches and a the tugs back off rapido! Definitely a 'WHOOOAA!' moment!

[dead_pan]

Love the bit in the footage where the Frigate suddenly lurches and a the tugs back off rapido!

Fake news!! The clip has clearly been doctored to make it look worse than it was. The warship barely touched the tug!!

[pettinger93]

Some years ago, the Royal Navy brought back a frigate the UK all the way from Norfolk Island lifted on a semi-submersible, after she hit a rock and very nearly sank. Only some very smart work by the crew saved her, but she was repaired. These ships are SO expensive to build, it take a lot to render them a total loss (unless they are near the end of their natural lives anyway)

[PDR1]

Video of the tugs pushing the ship to ground it in this article (Tower Dog can translate):

https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/yv2kBa/Tankskip-og-fregatt-kolliderte-ved-Oygarden--krigsskipet-mistet-styringen?fbclid=IwAR0-ouBwFfxzlpwiDm7_QZJAorLTpVUR-YHBfswKSqsaOjKhdrCmy4F6qVw

The video seems to be running at about 10 times normal speed...

PDR

[Davef68]

Some years ago, the Royal Navy brought back a frigate the UK all the way from Norfolk Island lifted on a semi-submersible, after she hit a rock and very nearly sank. Only some very smart work by the crew saved her, but she was repaired. These ships are SO expensive to build, it take a lot to render them a total loss (unless they are near the end of their natural lives anyway)

I think you refer to HMS Nottingham, which did that near Australia - it was shipped back and repaired because it had recently has a refit, and the cost of fitting all the advanced electronics to a non-updated T42 was deemed more expensive than repairing Nottingham

[Not_a_boffin]

Love the bit in the footage where the Frigate suddenly lurches and a the tugs back off rapido! Definitely a 'WHOOOAA!' moment!

That is the point where the ship has passed the point of vanishing stability and had it not been pushed aground, would have rolled right over. It's likely due to flooding right astern where the waterplane is lost (you can see the bubbling astern as air is forced out of the compartments). That raking damage looks longer than she is designed to survive - hopefully no-one trapped in the berthing compartments there.

That's a very expensive mishap and will be a feature on ship stability courses for years to come.

[Bull at a Gate]

Pettinger93, HMS Nottingham ran aground near Lord Howe Island (population 400) not Norfolk Island (population 1800 and not nearly as beautiful).

[Just This Once...]

The ship's driver seemed to have done a better job of beaching the boat than the tugs achieved. Quite a dynamic task for all concerned.

[TowerDog]

I think they only have 5 and 1 is maybe laid up or in deep maintenance

not funny when 20% of your Navy goes south...........

Uh, no.
The Norwegian Navy’s consist of 70 vessels, not 5..:rolleyes:

[Union Jack]

Uh, no.
The Norwegian Navy’s consist of 70 vessels, not 5..:rolleyes:
....and since five of their Fleet are classed as frigates, despite being regarded as destroyers by virtue of their size, eyes and, sadly, HELGE INGSTAD, can stop rolling.

Jack

[msbbarratt]

Pettinger93, HMS Nottingham ran aground near Lord Howe Island (population 400) not Norfolk Island (population 1800 and not nearly as beautiful).

About 2/3 of the bottom of Nottingham was ripped open, massive flooding everywhere. Story I heard was that as the ship bounced over the rock she'd hit at 30knots, the one compartment that got missed out was the Ward Room Pantry, which stayed dry. So the port, stilton and crackers were OK. The Captain, who had only just come back on board and was reaching the bridge as the collision occurred, took command and made a fast decision to use engine power to drag her backwards off the rock, whilst power was still available. She'd not have survived if left see sawing on the rock. Two big Olympuses drowned saving the ship.

I saw the pictures looking down into the engine room; basically you couldn't because the water came up to the very top. Absolute miracle she didn't sink, due entirely to the damage control efforts of the crew, who didn't hear the Abandon Ship pipe because by then all the electrics were dead. So they carried on and ended up saving the ship :D Australian Navy helped out with consolidation, rapid supply of pumps, etc. :ok:

The transport back to Pompey was let initially to a Dutch salvage firm who were the cheapest because they were going to sub it out to a Chinese firm. MoD told them to think again...

[Bing]

the one compartment that got missed out was the Ward Room Pantry,

You'd hope so, that's on 1 deck, for that to flood the hull would have to have been completely submerged.

[India Four Two]

Warning, thread drift.

I wondered who Helge Ingstad is/was and I looked him up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helge_Ingstad

What a remarkable person. He certainly crammed a lot of adventures into his life, including being the 1st Governor of Erik the Red's Land (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_the_Red%27s_Land).

[DirtyProp]

Seems that wiki has already been updated and reporting 7 crews as injured. Wish them a speedy recovery hoping that they were nothing serious, and quite relieved there were no casualties.

Now, could someone please explain to an ignoramus like meself how could a military ship with allegedly plenty of fancy boxes hit a boat the size of a hill?
Thanks in advance.

[Fareastdriver]

They must have done an exchange tour with the US Navy.

[Bing]

Now, could someone please explain to an ignoramus like meself how could a military ship with allegedly plenty of fancy boxes hit a boat the size of a hill?
Thanks in advance.

Well here're two ways USS McCain and Fitzgerald accident reports (https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=103130). Generally although it's all happening in relatively slow motion, so are any reactions so by the time you realise the other ship isn't doing what you expect it's a bit too late.

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Seems that wiki has already been updated and reporting 7 crews as injured. Wish them a speedy recovery hoping that they were nothing serious, and quite relieved there were no casualties.

Now, could someone please explain to an ignoramus like meself how could a military ship with allegedly plenty of fancy boxes hit a boat the size of a hill?
Thanks in advance.

The pictures show her down at the stern. She was stationary at the time of the incident according to the local media, so she did not hit anything, she was struck by the Maltese flagged tanker. 'Rammed' was the term some media outlets used.

Interestingly, the anti NATO Russian agitprop and misinformation started straight away, claiming damage to her bow.

[NutLoose]

Slight thread drift, Nottingham recovery plus eng pics etc

BBC NEWS | UK | England | In pictures: Recovery of HMS Nottingham (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2349449.stm)


http://www.polycad.co.uk/downloads/35bole.pdf

[Asturias56]

Apparently both ships were talking to each other and the tanker kept asking the warship what they intended only to be told the Navy had it all under control......

[MPN11]

oops ... apparently.

Contradicting post #37, of course [the source, not the poster!]

[TowerDog]

. Video of the tugs pushing the ship to ground it in this article (Tower Dog can translate):


Translation of the latest Newspaper blurb:
The 2 ships were in VHF contact with each other, the tanker told the Navy ship to turn to avoid collision.
The Marine ship traffic controller was also on the VHF, at first he did not know which ship just popped up on the radar, they
never checked in.
The Navy ship did navigation training on the bridge before and during the collision.
(The above is no official version of any investigation, just random info leaked to a newspaper)

[FanControl]

The Collision TimelineI can not post links yet since I do not have enough posts. The article can be found below.

medium.com/@cargun/radar-images-audio-log-of-knm-helge-ingstad-frigate-sola-ts-oil-tanker-collision-a71e3f516b54

And this sums it up.

7:50 — Helge Ingstad: We’ve a situation, we ran into an unknown object.4 minutes 30 seconds after the collision Helge Ingstad’s command is still unaware that they hit the oil tanker, Tesla TS. Where exactly they think they were?7:56 — Helge Ingstad: We’ve no propulsion.
8:22— Helge Ingstad: Still not clear here, but we need immediate assistance.

[MPN11]

Thanks! :ok:

On that evidence, a definite career-limiting exercise. I just can’t figure out why, was all the equipment on the frigate, they failed to ‘see and avoid’ a bloody great tanker!

[TowerDog]

Thanks! :ok:

On that evidence, a definite career-limiting exercise. I just can’t figure out why, was all the equipment on the frigate, they failed to ‘see and avoid’ a bloody great tanker!

No idea, looks like everyone on the bridge in charge of navigation had a brain-fart.
Some early speculation are now focusing on strong background lights so as to mask the tankers navigation lights, but all the electronic magic should have have picked up the 820 feet long tanker with a strong radar echo and a working AIS, as well as the warnings from the pilot on the tanker bridge.
Still holding judgement till we know what happened, but some of us have spent time on commercial ships and boats as well as in the cockpit of commercial airplanes and have a hard time grasping this one.

[FanControl]

Things seem to go that way when people pay no attention to what's really going on.

It is just unbelievable that this could happen and that with all the modern technology that is available nowadays. ARPA, ECDIS, COLREGS what’s that? Or was it party time after the NATO exercise?

[DirtyProp]

My guess is that their situational awareness went completely out the window, for whatever reason. Complacency, perhaps?
Would be interesting to know the causes.

[meleagertoo]

If she'd just finished an exercise she might well have remained in total EMCON so no radar, just navigating visually.
Do Navies do CRM anything like we do? In a watch change situation perhaps with poor designation of tasks between the watches and no one head down on the image intensifier screen, visual nav being the odd glance out of the window by 'somebody' a big, black tanker might well not be spotted. Even with radar in use if 'nobody' is watchng it because they're busy briefing 'somebody' - and all jolly and relaxed at the end of an exercise...

Penny to a pinch of the proverbial this'll turn out to be a major CRM clusterboob.

[topgas]

Solar TS is 250m long, 44m wide,and would have been showing masthead white lights on the short mast towards the bow and the mast on top of the bridge, as well as red/green navigation lights, probably near the bridge, and a white stern light. In addition, she would have been visible on AIS, which identifies the vessel, position, course and speed. AIS will also indicate how close the ships will pass on current courses. It has to be said that warships often don't have their AIS transmitting, but should still be able to see other vessels' AIS position. Solar TS doesn't seem to have much of a bulbous bow protrusion, compared to some. Picture copyright as stated
https://photos.marinetraffic.com/ais/showphoto.aspx?photoid=3091509

[MPN11]

From Post #42 ... The frigate KNM Helge Ingstad is steering towards Sola TS oil tanker at full speed, despite repeated warnings that a collision was imminent. ... OK, 17+ knots, but entering what appeared to be a fairly busy fjord that seems a bit 'brisk'.

And would it have been necessary/appropriate to remain 'dark' at ENDEX when making way into harbour?

[Bing]

From Post #42 ... ... OK, 17+ knots, but entering what appeared to be a fairly busy fjord that seems a bit 'brisk'.


Brisk does have that advantage that you are definitely the over taking vessel, which should make it clear who's responsible for collision avoidance. Obviously that didn't work in this case, but I've been on a T42 through the Dover Straits and the Captain had us doing 18kts to make life simple.

[MPN11]

Brisk does have that advantage that you are definitely the over taking vessel, which should make it clear who's responsible for collision avoidance. Obviously that didn't work in this case, but I've been on a T42 through the Dover Straits and the Captain had us doing 18kts to make life simple.
Overtaking case understood, and of course in the Dover Strait there are 'traffic lanes' to facilitate proceedings. But in this case we are talking about a head-on collision!

Thanks to the wonders of Google Earth, I've found broadly where the collision occurred. Searching for "Stura, Norway" will put you in the ball-park, and you can then easily correlate with the tracking info at https://medium.com/@cargun/radar-images-audio-log-of-knm-helge-ingstad-frigate-sola-ts-oil-tanker-collision-a71e3f516b54

At this point the fjord is about 3 miles wide, about 10 miles in from the open sea, and with some 25 miles to run to Bergen itself. Annoyingly I can't find a chart of Hjeltefjord which might show shipping lanes or shoal water, but it seems that KNM Helge Ingstad is 'hugging the coast line' in such a way that there's little or no manoeuvring room to starboard ... leaving at least 2 miles of open water to port [depth unknown to me]. OTOH, why was the Sola TS running so close to shore on her way out, thus to an extent preventing an oncoming vessel from passing 'port to port'? Whichever, was it wise, in that scenario, for Helge Ingstad to be forging ahead at 17.4 its in the dark?

The scenario reminds me of the Halifax Explosion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Explosion) in 1917, in confined waters, where a combination of 'excessive speed' and a lack of manoeuvring room led to a collision and, subsequently, a massive explosion ("The blast was the largest man-made explosion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_artificial_non-nuclear_explosions#Rank_order_of_largest_conventional_explos ions/detonations_by_magnitude) before the development of nuclear weapons, releasing the equivalent energy of roughly 2.9 kilotons of TNT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent)").

[FanControl]

Well thats it she is down. I still can not post links yet. But it can be found here.

vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/2178mG/flere-vaiere-har-roeket-milliardskipet-helge-ingstad-har-sunket

[Nige321]

Well thats it she is down. I still can not post links yet. But it can be found here.

vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/2178mG/flere-vaiere-har-roeket-milliardskipet-helge-ingstad-har-sunket

Try this... (https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/2178mG/flere-vaiere-har-roeket-milliardskipet-helge-ingstad-har-sunket)

[Bing]

At this point the fjord is about 3 miles wide, about 10 miles in from the open sea, and with some 25 miles to run to Bergen itself. Annoyingly I can't find a chart of Hjeltefjord which might show shipping lanes or shoal water, but it seems that KNM Helge Ingstad is 'hugging the coast line' in such a way that there's little or no manoeuvring room to starboard ... leaving at least 2 miles of open water to port [depth unknown to me]. OTOH, why was the Sola TS running so close to shore on her way out, thus to an extent preventing an oncoming vessel from passing 'port to port'? Whichever, was it wise, in that scenario, for Helge Ingstad to be forging ahead at 17.4 its in the dark?

It makes me wonder if, as some reports say, the Helge Ingstad was doing navigation training they were trying to increase the pressure on the trainee by increasing the speed? Maybe throw in visual or radar fixing rather than GPS and it would be quite easy to sap their capacity, and if the person supervising hasn't got as firm a grip on the situation as they think...

[MPN11]

Looking at the video linked in Post #53, there was a stream of traffic up the west side of the fjord heading north. What on earth was KNM Helge Ingstad doing steaming head on to that stream at 17+ kts?

So sad that the ship has gone under, despite the tugs' efforts to beach her safely.

[Just This Once...]

On a brighter note, the liferaft floats ok:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/962x641/6123260_6383827_image_a_8_1542107473960_2d8e25f1f42ab6ae9a1d 3a82178adb6c130d63cd.jpg

[orca]

MPN11 - I took a different view.

I see the video as a stream of traffic heading north with the incident merchant man to the west, also heading north.

The frigate is heading south and is well placed to miss the stream of traffic, being displaced to starboard and therefore likely to pass port to port.

But she’s on a collision course with the merchant man due to her being displaced.

It seems to me that by positioning as she did the merchant man could not alter course appreciably to starboard - as that would take her into the other traffic. I am assuming (for now!) that the frigate wouldn’t alter course to starboard as she was constrained by her draft.

Not for one second saying that 17 kts is a sensible speed. It all sounds rather pedestrian but I suspect it’s above the processing power of the average surface fellow. Their brethren spent a significant portion of yesteryear trying to tip me off the deck, run me out of fuel, beat me in fog based games of hide and seek etc etc - you’ve got to watch them!😉

That’s more than enough fishheadery for one watch.

[FanControl]

Everything is under control.....the famous last words...

Although on the bright side, Norway now has the worlds first Aegis class submarine based out of Sture …

[GordonR_Cape]

English language report and photos: https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2018/11/latest-frigate-helge-ingstad-sinks

[NutLoose]

Is the Helicopter still on board?

[NutLoose]

https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2018/11/see-photos-norways-badly-damaged-eu300-million-warship

[DirtyProp]

Considering it's in very shallow waters and right next to the coast, would it be feasible to repair the hull and float it again? To scrap it, not to bring it back in line.
Hate to see all this good hardware wasted...

[TBM-Legend]

https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2018/11/latest-frigate-helge-ingstad-sinks#.W-qhr-oi7rE.twitter

She has now sunk... game over sadly

[Not_a_boffin]

She will be raised and taken to a dock. Then deammunitioned. Then surveyed. At which point, I suspect the repair cost will exceed that of a new ship. Not to say they'll get a new ship.......

[pettinger93]

This may have been mentioned earlier in the thread (haven't time to check) but there is a transcript and radar video around, that seems to show that the frigate had her AIS turned off until the very last moment, ( in stealth mode) so that the tanker and VTS (Shore control) had no idea that she was there, seeing only an 'unknown ship' approaching on radar. The frigate seemed to have no awareness of the tanker's position nor was willing to take instructions from her. They also seemed frightened to turn even slightly to starboard as instructed, ( due to fear of the shoreline) which would have narrowly avoided a collision, but instead turned to port across the tankers bows thus ensuring the collision. The frigate seemed be surprised eve after the collision, and to not even know what hit her. Her AIS was turned on only at the moment or shortly after the collision. Complete and utter lack of situational awareness and procedure, implying complete incompetence. This is very surprising from the Norwegians, (though the US Navy has form)

[Whinging Tinny]

If you want an idea of what happened read up on the collision reports of the USS Fitzgerald and USS John McCain in close in coastal waters of Japan in 2017.
The collision reports can be found on the internet, this link gives a summary of both:
https://gcaptain.com/u-s-navy-releases-report-on-preventable-uss-fitzgerald-and-uss-john-s-mccain-collisions/

[MPN11]

Was flagged (oops) at Post 36, actually. ;)

A slightly different source, which always/sometimes adds value, though!

[NutLoose]

Considering it's in very shallow waters and right next to the coast, would it be feasible to repair the hull and float it again? To scrap it, not to bring it back in line.
Hate to see all this good hardware wasted...

Interesting question, I would have thought It has to be salvaged, one it's carrying munitions and two it will be carrying a lot of sensitive if not secret hardware, not something you want sitting in shallow water and close shore where any Tom, Dick or Ivan can swim out to, plus I cannot see you breaking it up in situ as again it's carrying munitions and will be full of fuel, the leaks were reported earlier as aviation fuel, so you will still have the main ship fuel onboard unless you can debunker it in situ.

[tdracer]

I'm guessing they'll build some sort of cofferdam around the wreck - install some temporary patches and pump out the water, then let the water back in and re-float it.
The math on scrap vs. repair changed pretty dramatically when when she completely sank - basically each deck that is flooded significantly increases the repair costs. Previously I expected they'd repair, now I'm not so sure.
I'd be very surprised if they the wreck where it is - but as a minimum they'll have to go in and remove all the armaments and ammo (even as destroyed as the Arizona was at Pearl Harbor, they salvaged the surviving guns and ammo).

[Davef68]

When you look at the efforts the Norwegians went to to salvage the old Soviet cruiser, I can't see them leaving it there

[Onceapilot]

Quite a task. Guess they hope it doesn't fall off into the depths! :uhoh:

OAP

[jmelson]

https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2018/11/see-photos-norways-badly-damaged-eu300-million-warship

This link says something about 300 million Euro, maybe that's for the hull, alone. The Aegis radar is 1 - 1.2 BILLION $ unit!
If it could ever be repaired after immersion for a week or two, I can't imagine it would work reliably. Who knows how much other fancy electronic gear is inside? Guided missiles?

Jon

[jolihokistix]

What mixture of salt water and fresh, I wonder, up at the surface?

[GordonR_Cape]

This link says something about 300 million Euro, maybe that's for the hull, alone. The Aegis radar is 1 - 1.2 BILLION $ unit!

The Aegis is a suite of radars and missile systems. The ones fitted in the Norwegian destroyers are smaller, and nowhere near the costs for a full shore-based BMD installation. See: https://mostlymissiledefense.com/2012/12/07/ballistic-missile-defense-how-much-would-it-cost-for-norway-to-give-its-aegis-ships-ballistic-missile-defense-capabilities-december-7-2012/

Edit: From Wikipedia:
SPY-1F FARS (frigate array radar system) is a smaller version of the 1D designed to fit frigates. It is not used by the US Navy, but has been exported to Norway.
The size of the antenna of SPY-1F is reduced from the original 12 ft (3.6 m) with 4,350 elements to 8 feet (2.4 m) with 1,856 elements, and the range is 54% of the SPY-1D.

[Just This Once...]

The 'Aegis' system on the Norwegian vessels are similar to the US Navy version in the same way a goldfish is to a shark. The arrays are considerably smaller, the TX units are less dense and the emitted power is but a fraction. Behind the array the power management would struggle to keep a regular SPY-1 radar warm. The processing power is similarly reduced to reflect the reduced area of the Aegis bubble around the ship.

That said they remain exceptionally capable systems and can totally dominate the area covered by their ESS missiles with capacity to spare. It's just that you need a massive increase in raw power to push the bubble out further and to process the increased levels of contacts, clutter, interference and hostile EW.

[esa-aardvark]

I have some experience with fire (smoke) and water damaged electronics.
There are companies who will dismantle wash dry & reassemble. In our case
mega-millions in 1980's no one would trust the stuff which was recovered.

[SARF]

Turn to port.. go to court

[Union Jack]

Turn to port.. go to court

Red to red, and green to green
Perfect safety? Go between.....

Jack

[MPN11]

When both lights you see ahead,
Starboard helm and show your red.

Or not.

[NutLoose]

https://news.sky.com/story/us-sailor-was-on-board-sunk-norwegian-frigate-and-could-be-questioned-11557433

Prior to the collision the frigate, which is one of five in the Norwegian navy, had been travelling around fjords for navigation training.

That's a fail then.

[oxenos]

A US navy officer on board
Giving the benefit of the USN's experience of collisions????

[Baron 58P]

It was reported this morning on Snafu that 4/5 of the navigation officers on the frigate were women. Talk about drivers.....

[pettinger93]

The tanker had the right to be there: she had just left the loading berth and aiming to sail diagonally to the correct side of the fjord. I imagine that she would have not moved off the berth when she did had she known the frigate was coming down the fjord towards her at 17 knots, but the lack of AIS on the frigate meant she had no way of knowing in time.

The navigators on the frigate bridge had obviously lost situational awareness. It is easy, when in training mode, to get in to a 'bubble', and concentrate on completing the set task, while forgetting about the real world outside. Even a last minute 5 deg alteration to starboard would have saved her, had the navigating officer listened to the tanker, but switching on the AIS and / or slowing down earlier would have been even more helpful.

2 large 'sheerleg' lifting vessels are now en-route to lift the frigate off the sea-bed (from 20 m down) and onto a semi-submersible vessel. However, there is worry that the frigate is unstable, and may slip into deeper water before they can get her lifted. Apparently she has almost 500 tons of fuel on board.

[NutLoose]

Fascinating stuff all this, I was reading up on some of the world war 2 things they used to do such as counter flooding and dumping heavy fuel oil into the sea around the vessel to increase buoyancy. During the times of wooden ships they used to hang heavy tarps over the side with multiple ropes stitched on to seal holes, shame they cannot come up with a similar BDR scheme using a metal shutter type device that can be lowered over the side allowing suction and water pressure to do the work.
Tomorrows World ( remember that ) showed some fascinating things, one for small boats was a rubber umbrella that you would push through the hole and then open, the water flow would push it against the hole sealing it. Often wondered if it ever went into production, similar to the chaff distress flare they showed.

[merch]

I doubt if the tanker would have used AIS as an anti collision aid, it would have been using its radars/ ARPA. The AIS may have been used as an overlay on the radar to give target informaion such as name, type and destination. The lack of AIS on the warship would have prevented identification, but the anti collision info would be the same as any other ship on their radar as a target. The warship should have been using and paying attention to their radar/ARPA as well.

[pettinger93]

After the tanker had left the loading jetty, she saw the frigate coming down the fjord on her radar, but had no way of knowing which ship it was, because the frigate's AIS was switched off the officer of the watch called the VTS to ask, but the VTS similarly had no idea. The tanker then hailed 'the unknown ship' by radio to ask her intentions, but had no response. A few minutes later, the tanker anxiously called the VTS again, who then said that it was possible that the unknown vessel was the frigate, but had no info on her. The tanker then called the frigate by name, and got a response, but little sensible reaction from them.

[SpazSinbad]

Investigation of marine accident, collision outside the Sture Oil Terminal in Hjeltefjorden, Norway
https://www.aibn.no/Marine/Investigations/18-968

Preliminary report collision between frigate KNM Helge Ingstad and the oil tanker Sola TS 8 November 2018
https://www.aibn.no/Marine/Investigations/18-968?iid=25573&pid=SHT-Report-Attachments.Native-InnerFile-File&attach=1 (PDF 191Kb)

Appendix A_Interim safety recommendations collision between the frigate KNM Helge Ingsta' and the tanker Sola TS_29 November 2018
https://www.aibn.no/Marine/Investigations/18-968?iid=25575&pid=SHT-Report-Attachments.Native-InnerFile-File&attach=1 (PDF 172Kb)

[etudiant]

Seems a stunningly deficient design for a Norwegian warship, watertight compartments that are anything but.
It is incomprehensible to me that such a deficient product was accepted by the Norwegian navy, especially considering that Norway's Det Norske Veritas is the world leader in seaworthiness appraisals with DNV-GL.

[Airbubba]

An article from The Drive with analysis of the preliminary report:

We Have The First Official Report On Norway's Sunken Frigate And It Isn't PrettyThe investigation into the accident is still ongoing, but it has already uncovered confusion on the bridge and design flaws in the ship.By Joseph Trevithick (http://www.thedrive.com/author/joseph-trevithick)
November 29, 2018

We Have The First Official Report On Norway's Sunken Frigate And It Isn't Pretty - The Drive (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/25218/we-have-the-first-official-report-on-norways-sunken-frigate-and-it-isnt-pretty)

[TWT]

Norway’s accident investigation board is raising questions about the watertight integrity of the Nansen-class frigates and is pointing its finger at shipbuilder Navantia in the wake of the collision and subsequent sinking of the frigate Helge Ingstad (https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/11/11/warnings-and-confusion-preceded-norwegian-frigate-disaster-heres-what-we-know/) in early November.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/11/29/early-report-blames-confused-watchstanders-possible-design-flaws-for-norways-sunken-frigate/

[Not_a_boffin]

Ouch. Not good reading.

Pound to a penny, the stability modelling assumed w/t shafts, whereas the detail somewhat different. Stuffing boxes (glands) ought to have shown up during compartment air test. If tested.

It's always the detail with W/T integrity - similar issues with Nottingham and Endurance.

[M609]

Lifted to sheltered port 22nm away during the last 3 days. Lift onto a barge planned for the next few days.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x675/image_ad5c4a9bb08fdef55bac1f207a485bfa86cea459.jpeg

[Not_a_boffin]

It'll buff out.......

[NutLoose]

Nothing a stirrup pump and a bucket of WD40 won't sort out.

[artee]

Nothing a stirrup pump and a bucket of WD40 won't sort out.

Don't forget the gaffer tape...

[tdracer]

So what's the plan, are they going to fix it or scrap it?
Or is that still TBD?

[M609]

TBD, but probably scrap

[langleybaston]

along with a few careers, one suspects

[MPN11]

Fascinating link ... thank you!

Amazing what people could achieve in those dreadful days of yore.

[Blossy]

Interesting, but surely the aircraft on deck are P-47s?

[goofer3]

The left hand picture shows P-51's, but, yes, the right hand shows P-47's.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x630/hms_nabob800_7d9fe6ede3bbd2e2570a0c89355acc9ac777d703.jpg

[MPN11]

OT ... I love the miniature bridge/conning tower.

[racedo]

So in future will Norwegian ships need an escort vessel when they enter places like this ?

A Fjord Escort so to speak.

[Less Hair]

A Fjord Transit would work too.

[OvertHawk]

A little Fjord Focus would not hurt either!!!

[Thrust Augmentation]

Looked more like an unintentional Fjord Connect to me!

[M609]

Alongside at Håkonsvern naval base.*
At a press conference today, they claim they will have it float into dock in 5-6 weeks time.*

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1158x651/20190304bs_5668_52886e738510168f77bea0231ae39eb54928f78e.jpg
*

[nonsense]

If only they had a Fjord Fairlane with no conflicting traffic. Perhaps they could use Fjord Lasers to show the way at night, and a Fjord Ranger to tell the distance from obstructions?
If they hit a foreign ship, they'd need a Fjord Consul too...

Is there some way to squeeze the Vogons and Fjord Prefect in here too?

[Hipper]

Fascinating link ... thank you!

Amazing what people could achieve in those dreadful days of yore.

Norway is an area where a few WW2 German ships got spectacular damage.

Gneisenau:

Gneisenau - Gallery - Operation "Juno" (http://www.scharnhorst-class.dk/gneisenau/gallery/gallgneisejuno.html)

Prinz Eugen:

prinz eugen damaged stern - Google Search (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=prinz+eugen+damaged+stern&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=r8R_niDYqxpamM%253A%252Cr2H7yam2y_s35M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSsD5twD3BWYo42e6Y0c_c-QCjEdw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj1kNCf8-vgAhV8RRUIHb8MCZMQ9QEwAHoECAEQBA#imgrc=r8R_niDYqxpamM:)

Lutzow:

lutzow damaged stern - Google Search (http://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=HOR-XIWiNqOV1fAPvqSWOA&q=lutzow+damaged+stern&oq=lutzow+damaged+stern&gs_l=img.12...110925.114510..116488...0.0..0.86.888.17...... 0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i24.3ppK82MFsNU)

All the ships got home and were repaired.

[langleybaston]

and the Tirpitz .......

as to IX or 617 I know not, and nor do they.

[racedo]

Norway is an area where a few WW2 German ships got spectacular damage.

Gneisenau:

Gneisenau - Gallery - Operation "Juno" (http://www.scharnhorst-class.dk/gneisenau/gallery/gallgneisejuno.html)

Prinz Eugen:

prinz eugen damaged stern - Google Search (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=prinz+eugen+damaged+stern&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=r8R_niDYqxpamM%253A%252Cr2H7yam2y_s35M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSsD5twD3BWYo42e6Y0c_c-QCjEdw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj1kNCf8-vgAhV8RRUIHb8MCZMQ9QEwAHoECAEQBA#imgrc=r8R_niDYqxpamM:)

Lutzow:

lutzow damaged stern - Google Search (http://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=HOR-XIWiNqOV1fAPvqSWOA&q=lutzow+damaged+stern&oq=lutzow+damaged+stern&gs_l=img.12...110925.114510..116488...0.0..0.86.888.17...... 0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i24.3ppK82MFsNU)

All the ships got home and were repaired.

To be fair they probably would have been better off going to the med and tying up along side one of the Islands there like Cortina or Capri or hiding somewhere close to High Sierra mountains rather than making a right Model T of themselves in Norway.