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nomorecatering
8th Nov 2018, 14:42
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYbkbXCrC6E

Yet another mass shooting, this time in CA. Isn't that 2 this week, or was it 3. I've lost count.

When are Americans going to wake up and understand there is a problem. A big problem. guns themselves are not the issue, it's Americans propensity to harm others just to make a name for themselves, or to compensate for a self perceived inadequacy or insult. Get fired, slaughter some people, your girlfriend dumps you, slaughter some people, have a shitty day, slaughter some people.

Americans are so hung up on the evils of "Socialism", the mere mention to some Americans that Universal health care is needed triggers them into a frothing mess followed by repeated phrases, "America is the best country and no other country can teach it anything". America has to come to terms with the fact that there is a fundamental sickness that is pervading it's society and its psyche. There is ample evidence to support this. No other country suffers from repeated events like this...........none. When you talk about arming every teacher in every school..................there is something wrong, really wrong.

If anyone feels this is an America bashing thread......tough. Some hard and uncomfortable truths need to be told and understood.

Pali
8th Nov 2018, 15:41
I am expecting big discussion about guns as usual. But I am rather prone to collect bets on "which SSRI medication was he on?" and I also bet that this question will not be addressed in the media... :(

bnt
8th Nov 2018, 15:59
The shooter has been identified as an ex-Marine (https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/california-shooting-intl/index.html) who had spoken to health professionals before but not found to have a serious problem.

ethicalconundrum
8th Nov 2018, 16:08
If anyone feels this is an America bashing thread......tough. Some hard and uncomfortable truths need to be told and understood.

First, my 'feelings' are reserved for the wife, kids, and dog, Snickers. But, I will share with you my thoughts on the 'truths' that 'need' to be told. We have elections. Those elections choose a representative to uphold, and defend our constitution. If/when enough representatives get put in office to start limiting the liberty of the people, then they will amend our founding document. Our nation started down that dangerous road in 2008, by a bunch of self-serving do-gooder, elites who were just absolutely certain that THEY and they alone had the answer to all the problems the nation faced. There was a small chink in the armor of the do-gooders in 2012 when most of them were rejected, and sent to the back bench(metaphorically, in reality they were kicked completely out of the building). The do-gooder elites came up again in 2016 and doubled down on their plan that they would rule the world, and that the US would be one of the vassal states of their dominion. Sadly, as it came to pass, the do-gooder elites were absolutely CRUSHED and HUMILIDATED by the proletariat out in the real world of the US. Never in the history of representative govt has one party been so badly decimated, loosing thousands of representation seats in one election. It was a blood bath.

I guess, what I mean is that for a segment of about 8 years, there was a true effort involved to turn over the country to those 'who knew better' than the deplorable across our nation. Seems we kind of like that liberty thing. Although not unlimited, we're doing pretty well over here in the colonies, despite several countries trying to bring us to ruin - regularly and righteously of course...

Gun control - rejected. Socialized medicine - on the ropes, and being defunded. Unlawful entry into the republic - oh hell no. Economy going gangbusters, employment up everywhere, trade deals, negotiated with the benefit of the US again. And so much more winning! Thanks for playing, we'll take if from here.

Toadstool
8th Nov 2018, 16:09
I am expecting big discussion about guns as usual. But I am rather prone to collect bets on "which SSRI medication was he on?" and I also bet that this question will not be addressed in the media... :(

I'm guessing, once anyone mentions gun control, that California having the strictest gun control will be mentioned.

That's all i'm saying on the matter that has been discussed on many occasions before. Its a USA thing.

wowzz
8th Nov 2018, 16:21
First, my 'feelings' are reserved for the wife, kids, and dog, Snickers. But, I will share with you my thoughts on the 'truths' that 'need' to be told. We have elections. Those elections choose a representative to uphold, and defend our constitution. If/when enough representatives get put in office to start limiting the liberty of the people, then they will amend our founding document. Our nation started down that dangerous road in 2008, by a bunch of self-serving do-gooder, elites who were just absolutely certain that THEY and they alone had the answer to all the problems the nation faced. There was a small chink in the armor of the do-gooders in 2012 when most of them were rejected, and sent to the back bench(metaphorically, in reality they were kicked completely out of the building). The do-gooder elites came up again in 2016 and doubled down on their plan that they would rule the world, and that the US would be one of the vassal states of their dominion. Sadly, as it came to pass, the do-gooder elites were absolutely CRUSHED and HUMILIDATED by the proletariat out in the real world of the US. Never in the history of representative govt has one party been so badly decimated, loosing thousands of representation seats in one election. It was a blood bath.

I guess, what I mean is that for a segment of about 8 years, there was a true effort involved to turn over the country to those 'who knew better' than the deplorable across our nation. Seems we kind of like that liberty thing. Although not unlimited, we're doing pretty well over here in the colonies, despite several countries trying to bring us to ruin - regularly and righteously of course...

Gun control - rejected. Socialized medicine - on the ropes, and being defunded. Unlawful entry into the republic - oh hell no. Economy going gangbusters, employment up everywhere, trade deals, negotiated with the benefit of the US again. And so much more winning! Thanks for playing, we'll take if from here.
I think you should have posted in the Friday Jokes thread.

Squawk7777
8th Nov 2018, 16:24
Why need to address guns as a problem if you'll get the standard Republican "thoughts & prayers" bs.

​​works every time. As a matter of fact it is so efficient that I am looking at old Europe to relocate with all its "socialistic and terroristic" dangers.

Sorry Uncle Sam. You're not the same as I remember you 20 years ago. Or maybe you never were what I thought you could should would have been.

And I really learned to hate religion. Nothing is more hypocrite than a stark Bible thumping moralist.

evansb
8th Nov 2018, 16:56
"Thoughts and prayers" are offered when you are completely bankrupt of ideas on how to resolve an issue.

A proposed amendment to the Constitution of the United States: The right of all citizens not to be randomly shot.

Sallyann1234
8th Nov 2018, 17:16
Meh. It's only another 12 people killed.
Insignificant compared to the annual death total.
Nothing to see here...

ShotOne
8th Nov 2018, 17:28
So what’s your solution? Seriously, what would you actually do about it if you were President? Outright ban? Even if you could pull that off it would still leave about 250 million guns. Demand they be handed in... I reckon you might get a fifth of them if you’re lucky, from those least likely to misuse them. Then what?

Pontius Navigator
8th Nov 2018, 17:30
Shoot on sight.

Oh, don't they do that already?

Sallyann1234
8th Nov 2018, 17:31
There is no solution. None.

neila83
8th Nov 2018, 17:31
First, my 'feelings' are reserved for the wife, kids, and dog, Snickers. But, I will share with you my thoughts on the 'truths' that 'need' to be told. We have elections. Those elections choose a representative to uphold, and defend our constitution. If/when enough representatives get put in office to start limiting the liberty of the people, then they will amend our founding document. Our nation started down that dangerous road in 2008, by a bunch of self-serving do-gooder, elites who were just absolutely certain that THEY and they alone had the answer to all the problems the nation faced. There was a small chink in the armor of the do-gooders in 2012 when most of them were rejected, and sent to the back bench(metaphorically, in reality they were kicked completely out of the building). The do-gooder elites came up again in 2016 and doubled down on their plan that they would rule the world, and that the US would be one of the vassal states of their dominion. Sadly, as it came to pass, the do-gooder elites were absolutely CRUSHED and HUMILIDATED by the proletariat out in the real world of the US. Never in the history of representative govt has one party been so badly decimated, loosing thousands of representation seats in one election. It was a blood bath.

I guess, what I mean is that for a segment of about 8 years, there was a true effort involved to turn over the country to those 'who knew better' than the deplorable across our nation. Seems we kind of like that liberty thing. Although not unlimited, we're doing pretty well over here in the colonies, despite several countries trying to bring us to ruin - regularly and righteously of course...

Gun control - rejected. Socialized medicine - on the ropes, and being defunded. Unlawful entry into the republic - oh hell no. Economy going gangbusters, employment up everywhere, trade deals, negotiated with the benefit of the US again. And so much more winning! Thanks for playing, we'll take if from here.

Are you OK? Enjoying the trip? Take care when you come back down to earth, it can be a nasty bump.

It's only the flags that are false up there it seems, but perception is taking a hit too.

evansb
8th Nov 2018, 17:46
Yup, the economy is more important than the safety of its citizens. As a contemporary sociologist observed, "People of modern capitalistic societies exist to serve the economy, not the other way around. In other words, what matters most is the economy, everything else is secondary.

double_barrel
8th Nov 2018, 19:29
Gun control - rejected. Socialized medicine - on the ropes, and being defunded. Unlawful entry into the republic - oh hell no. Economy going gangbusters, employment up everywhere, trade deals, negotiated with the benefit of the US again. And so much more winning! Thanks for playing, we'll take if from here.

Wonderful!


Gun control - nothing to say! Actually I kind of sympathise. Of course it's mad, but I understand that locked into that situation, from the inside it seems sensible to be better armed than the next bloke.

Socialized medicine. I love that the prefix socialized makes it evil! Don't Americans understand how to the core screwed-up (and let's face it, evil) their health system is? Astounding. How you were brainwashed by billionaires and right wing politicians (who have their health care paid by your taxes), to believe that it is noble, right, the American way, to be bankrupted by illness if you are lucky, is one of the most astounding achievements of modern politics.

Unlawful entry into the republic - oh hell no. You are being played you dummy! look at the figures for deportation in the Obama years. They have actually declined under Trump. It's classic 'they are coming to get you only I can save you' politics.

Economy going gangbusters. There is some truth in that, but you should check the trends over the last decade. And deregulation just pours more money into the hands of the ultra wealthy whose total sense of entitlement results in bail-outs and tax evasion when you and I would be locked-up. And Obama bailed them out!!!!


In some ways the saddest is the rejection of the traditional American values of free speech. A war was fought for the right to make a stand for what you believe to right. The disgusting vilification of Kaepernick's, polite and respectful gesture as 'unpatriotic' is appalling.

ethicalconundrum
8th Nov 2018, 20:11
Well, I'm glad to see that my missive was so well received. I really like it when rational, thoughtful, and cogent contra-commentary is offered. (that's sarcasm, if it didn't come out in the wash) Drive by posts with zero content are what is expected on the forums. Good of DB above to offer some optional ideas. Oh wait, there aren't any optional ideas, just critique. I will surely give the criticism full value it deserves.

next

Buster15
8th Nov 2018, 20:18
Meh. It's only another 12 people killed.
Insignificant compared to the annual death total.
Nothing to see here...

Wow. That is really profound. Bet you would feel the same if it was members of your family.....

Only another 12 people killed. Anyone who thinks and then actually writes such rubbish should feel completely ashamed of themselves, especially the very clever 'meh'.
Well done.

Thomas coupling
8th Nov 2018, 20:21
When a country as insular as the US (40% have never visited other parts of america never mind abroad) is left to stew in its own jucies for so long, it genuinely believes there is no-one else to compare itself to.
One can harp on about the US for ever. The bottom line is this:
2 years ago, 270,000,000 eligible voters had the opportunity to vote for someone to become THE most powerful human being on this planet. 58% turned up...only half the nation gave a damn.
They shortlisted 2. Clinton and Beaverhead. Both - rotten to the core. The first: corrupt, elitist. The other: corrupt, elitist, sociopath, misogynist, sexist, bankrupt.
THAT speaks volumes about this nation.
In a relatively short period (200+ years) having started out with founding father ideals, chosing the route to a model democracy, they now find themselves completely and utterly lost. Confused. Angry (very very angry with each other). Frustrated.
We are witnessing the demise of a once enviable empire (like those who have gone before them: Persia/Greece/Rome) - as it self destructs.
When "Ethicalconundrum" comes out with his explanation of these mass shootings - we all know the game is well and truly over.
RiP USA.

Thomas coupling
8th Nov 2018, 20:27
Atleast China have had thousands of years to get used to power. They can only be better than the yanks when they take over as THE most powerful economy on the planet in 2030. The model is proven.

移居美国

Hempy
8th Nov 2018, 20:35
I’ll sum up the way this thread will go to save you coming back.

* The problem is mental illness not guns.
* Guns don’t kill people, people do.
* What about Chicago?
* You don’t know anything about anything, you’re a foreigner.
* We need guns to fight the Deep State.
* Typical Leftists
* ad infinitum.

ShotOne
8th Nov 2018, 20:40
So this is all the fault of the current President? Genuine question; as a Brit it’s not my call who gets that job. But the issue broadly hasn’t changed for decades before Mr Trump took up politics.

Toadstool
8th Nov 2018, 20:53
So this is all the fault of the current President? Genuine question; as a Brit it’s not my call who gets that job. But the issue broadly hasn’t changed for decades before Mr Trump took up politics.

Absolutely not. He may have his faults, but mass shootings have been occurring for quite some time now.

pax britanica
8th Nov 2018, 20:54
Having lived in America-worked there and visited endlessly this is an issue that is hard for European and others to understand-even Canadians who live next door.

True USA is kind f based on money as the key to everything and is certainly not a very free country when it comes to political opinions , well not to the extent they think it is .
But on this issue is dont both arguing-it won't happen unless someone guns down the entire senate and even then 80% of the guns already out there will never b e recovered.

Its just something they are content to live with and therefore we have to live with them living with it.

They are not going to change , even tho there is no chance of the redcoats attacking Boston again which is why they have the law in the first place

Thomas coupling
8th Nov 2018, 20:58
ShotOne - that wasn't the point I was making??? The USA had choices, they had ample opportunity to stand back and look at the big picture to see what was wrong with it. They spent more money than the GDP of many other countires putting the winner on a pedestal. Their 'choices' were based on fear, uncertainty, nihalism...............and this is the hub of the problem.
The current president is a symptom of their society. Hopefully (and by the looks of the midterms) this is becoming an apparition.

ethicalconundrum
8th Nov 2018, 21:03
So this is all the fault of the current President? Genuine question; as a Brit it’s not my call who gets that job. But the issue broadly hasn’t changed for decades before Mr Trump took up politics.


It's complex to answer. I'm not trying to be coy, but the answer lies in varied and historical perspective. The 'fault' if one wants to know exactly lies in the form of govt we have chosen. As a republic, all powers are held by the people, except for specific, and limited powers that the people grant to their federal and state elected representatives. A republic is a group or nation of laws that we agree apply to everyone. One of those is a very specific restriction on the power to restrict gun ownership and operation. For generations, those with govt power have tried to find various ways to limit the peoples power to own and use guns. So far, it hasn't been very successful.

The only thing that could overcome the ownership and use of guns is another amendment which would cancel or modify the current one. It isn't up to the president(or any of the prev presidents) or congress, or senate, or the supreme court. It is up to the people to cope with the liberty provided as a way of life in the US.

To amend the rule of law in the US is a difficult and fractious process. As it should be. A republic should not change its laws on a whim, or at the demand of the people, or we descend into mob rule, otherwise called 'democracy'. Having said that, there are good reasons to amend our laws, and make living in the US more palatable. that task starts with the senate and house of reps, and ends with the president. Or, it can start with the governors of the various states, but that has never been tried.

Politically, I like to call the gun debate the perfect political football. One side gets to rail and scream about controlling guns, but will never do anything about it, even when they have the trifecta of control of the court, congress, and presidency. When they did have that kind of control, all action on gun control was suppressed, and in its place was action on massive social plans, spending, and regulation. So - nothing gets done, because the status-quo is beneficial to both sides. The conservatives get to actually own and use guns as they see fit. The liberals get to use the law as a whipping boy for partisan control, even though they would never, ever propose actual changes to the founding documents when they are in, or out of power.

I hope this helps a bit.

racedo
8th Nov 2018, 21:15
https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/

480 murders in Chicago in 2018 of which 414 involved shooting......

Gun laws in Illinois are tough
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois

650 people murdered in Chicago in 2017

racedo
8th Nov 2018, 21:25
Next time in the US with kids ................ hopefully in 1-2 yrs I fully plan, (have told them) that we will spend the day at a NRA approved gun range.................. maybe if there long enough with do 2 different 2 days in different states.

Aim (pardon pun) will be to show them how to shoot, when to shoot, how to look after guns and what to do when you need to do it.

Now in all likelihood if they live in Europe, they may never be confronted in a situation where having a gun will save their life, but if they are and have a gun close, I would rather they know how to use rather than panicing.
I fully intend to ask with instructors permission and his checkin, to point a gun (unloaded) at me, then drive home that next time they ever point a gun at a person they must be prepared to shoot............... drives home its not a toy and it will kill.

Colleagues and friends are horrified by my even suggesting it............... I listened to them, took their views into account and will fully ignore what they say.
Worst case is that they spend a day shooting and learning about guns and never ever need them.

obgraham
8th Nov 2018, 21:29
Do you all feel better now?

At least you can all rejoice in the fact that you don't live in the US, but rather in such peace loving and enlightened places where there are no social problems and everyone behaves kindly to their neighbors.

Thomas coupling
8th Nov 2018, 21:35
Racedo - are you american?

ethicalconundrum
8th Nov 2018, 21:36
Its just something they are content to live with and therefore we have to live with them living with it.

They are not going to change , even tho there is no chance of the redcoats attacking Boston again which is why they have the law in the first place

There was at least 10 years between the surrender of Lord Cornwallis, and the writing of the Bill of Rights in 1791. By then, the republic was well established, and the last redcoat had been returned to England, or defrocked or had pledged allegiance to the US. There was no concern about the US facing another army, except the indigenous types. The focus on the Bill of Rights was much more focused on the limitations of the powers of US govt at the fed level and about states rights. The gun rights amendment was predominantly the 'guarantee' that states, and the people would ultimately determine the course of our destiny. Too many Euro powers had descended into fights, wars, and bloody conquest at the behest of one King, regent, or emperor. We weren't having any of that in the colonies, no thank you. It remains as the final brake on the usurpation of force and totalitarianism by a despot, should the worse befall us some day.

ethicalconundrum
8th Nov 2018, 21:40
Next time in the US with kids ................ hopefully in 1-2 yrs I fully plan, (have told them) that we will spend the day at a NRA approved gun range.................. maybe if there long enough with do 2 different 2 days in different states.

Aim (pardon pun) will be to show them how to shoot, when to shoot, how to look after guns and what to do when you need to do it.

Now in all likelihood if they live in Europe, they may never be confronted in a situation where having a gun will save their life, but if they are and have a gun close, I would rather they know how to use rather than panicing.
I fully intend to ask with instructors permission and his checkin, to point a gun (unloaded) at me, then drive home that next time they ever point a gun at a person they must be prepared to shoot............... drives home its not a toy and it will kill.

Colleagues and friends are horrified by my even suggesting it............... I listened to them, took their views into account and will fully ignore what they say.
Worst case is that they spend a day shooting and learning about guns and never ever need them.

I doubt, and I sincerely hope that the NRA licensed gun range will decline. If you do ask, do it at the end of your training, because if you go in asking for that from the start, I think you may be going out with your britches hitched up to your neck. Most gun owners never need their gun for anything but sport/hunting. But in some circumstance, it is a useful tool.

fab777
8th Nov 2018, 21:58
It was a blood bath.


Nicely chosen words, given the circumstances...

Sallyann1234
8th Nov 2018, 23:05
Wow. That is really profound. Bet you would feel the same if it was members of your family.....

Only another 12 people killed. Anyone who thinks and then actually writes such rubbish should feel completely ashamed of themselves, especially the very clever 'meh'.
Well done.
Absolutely no trace of shame whatsoever.

The pain of those 12 people's families is no more nor less than the pain of each of the hundreds of victims killed in smaller incidents every year.

Making a particular issue of this single incident is pointless when the relentless death toll continues unabated decade after decade.

racedo
8th Nov 2018, 23:14
Racedo - are you american?

Nope.................... WHY ?

racedo
8th Nov 2018, 23:19
I doubt, and I sincerely hope that the NRA licensed gun range will decline. If you do ask, do it at the end of your training, because if you go in asking for that from the start, I think you may be going out with your britches hitched up to your neck. Most gun owners never need their gun for anything but sport/hunting. But in some circumstance, it is a useful tool.

TBF getting him to point out the same thing at the start (would have met him before and discussed it) would be as effective........................... its getting the message to them and would rely on his experience and knowledge in what works best.

Want them to know them and yes they may go hunting when older but want to overcome the OMG its a gun barrier first.

Thomas coupling
8th Nov 2018, 23:59
Racedo - because you sound like a typical yank. You and you're family are going to spend a couple of days in the murder capitol of the world and you want to indoctrinate your gullible kids into their mentality only to remove them from that insane world immediately thereafter and back where the chance of being involved in a shooting or gun crime are zillions to one.
Now if that isn;t going to twist their perspective on things nothing will.
Surely this is the american way of thinking eh? Where they train 9 year olds to fire machine guns???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGCKFzGAfQ0

Listen to the entire clip - it is spine chiling. Great thinking dad...

Two's in
9th Nov 2018, 00:00
Perhaps when we start having a couple of these a week those who laughingly claim to control legislation might consider trying to stem the slaughter. Until then, keep piling those corpses up and saying nothing can be done in the only country in the world where this is even a thing.

/Oh, and thoughts and prayers. For gods sake, don't forget the thoughts and prayers.

racedo
9th Nov 2018, 00:37
Racedo - because you sound like a typical yank. You and you're family are going to spend a couple of days in the murder capitol of the world and you want to indoctrinate your gullible kids into their mentality only to remove them from that insane world immediately thereafter and back where the chance of being involved in a shooting or gun crime are zillions to one.
Now if that isn;t going to twist their perspective on things nothing will.
Surely this is the american way of thinking eh? Where they train 9 year olds to fire machine guns???

Listen to the entire clip - it is spine chiling. Great thinking dad...

You really are good or full of your own BS........................... more the latter than the former.

In 2016 17,000 odd murdered in US or 5.35 per 100,000, in El Salvador it was 82.84 or 5,300 people.
Now even going by absolute numbers that would be Brazil with 61,000 or India with 43,000 or Mexico with 25,000

Oh wait that doesn't fit into your bias because you never bothered to look at the numbers but spout the same rhetoric..............

As my kids have visited 45 different countries and not all Western European fluffy states then they have seen quite a bit and will likely see a lot more in seeing other countries.
I have zero issue with them being able to know, understand the dangers and the benefits of using a gun if ever the day arrives when it becomes appropriate.

racedo
9th Nov 2018, 00:41
Perhaps when we start having a couple of these a week those who laughingly claim to control legislation might consider trying to stem the slaughter. Until then, keep piling those corpses up and saying nothing can be done in the only country in the world where this is even a thing.

/Oh, and thoughts and prayers. For gods sake, don't forget the thoughts and prayers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

So what about Brzail or South Africa or Mexico or lots of other places................. don't they count ?
or even Lithuania s their date rate per 100,000 is almost same as the US.

WingNut60
9th Nov 2018, 01:31
You are a bit late.

Perhaps when we start having a couple of these a week ........

Using a definition of "four or more persons killed or injured" there have been 307 such incidents this year.
That is, a rate of 6.88 per week. Lets say one per day.

meadowrun
9th Nov 2018, 03:11
Well, what do you expect when you go to a nightclub in downtown Afghanistan?

Armament rates among citizens are likely similar.

Forget about changing anything in the States. Never, ever, going to happen.
Gun sales will increase.
I have no problem with fine upstanding citizens playing with guns if that's their thing...............it's all the utter morons in numbers to amaze.

sitigeltfel
9th Nov 2018, 07:56
I’ll sum up the way this thread will go to save you coming back.


What about Chicago?

Not really happy with inconvenient truths, are you?

eal401
9th Nov 2018, 12:23
Another shooting in the States.

Once US citizens start giving a toss, then I will to. But this is a country that defends a bit of paper over, to take an example entirely at random, children being machine gunned at school.

Incredible that some many Americans are completely at ease with school massacres.

Buster15
9th Nov 2018, 12:28
Absolutely no trace of shame whatsoever.

The pain of those 12 people's families is no more nor less than the pain of each of the hundreds of victims killed in smaller incidents every year.

Making a particular issue of this single incident is pointless when the relentless death toll continues unabated decade after decade.

The whole point about making an issue of mass murders is to attempt to persuade the American people that they should do something about their proudly held gun laws.

I assume that you are similarly ambivalent to the stabbings in London as well of course those millions who were killed in the wars.

Anyway. You have your views and have explained your point.

I on the other hand have mine which is 180 degrees opposed.

Sallyann1234
9th Nov 2018, 13:13
The whole point about making an issue of mass murders is to attempt to persuade the American people that they should do something about their proudly held gun laws.
But they will not change them, and certainly not from outside influence.

I assume that you are similarly ambivalent to the stabbings in London as well of course those millions who were killed in the wars.

Irrelevant.
Guns are legally held in the US. Carrying knives is illegal in the UK, and actually enforced on the rare occasions there are sufficient police to do so.

racedo
9th Nov 2018, 13:41
Guns are legally held in the US. Carrying knives is illegal in the UK, and actually enforced on the rare occasions there are sufficient police to do so.

More people have died in knife stabbings in London than in mass shootings in the US this year.

BAengineer
9th Nov 2018, 13:57
Why need to address guns as a problem if you'll get the standard Republican "thoughts & prayers" bs.



Whats this about Republican BS?. Obama had 8 years to do something, including 2 years where the Democrats controlled all 3 strands of the Government. And what did Obama do? - he introduced 2 pieces of legislation on firearms, both of which relaxed gun controls.

So playing politics on this issue aint gonna fly..

Bob Viking
9th Nov 2018, 13:58
I do not wish to wade into the argument on either side but may I please challenge your facts?

http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-many-mass-shootings-in-america-this-year-2018-2

https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/london-violence-list-murder-victims-killed-in-the-capital-so-far-this-year/amp/

Those articles will tell you there have been 307 mass shootings so far this year in the US. I didn’t read far enough to find an exact casualty figure but ‘mass’ implies many. And that doesn’t include other gun related homicides.

There have been 117 fatal stabbings in London during the same period.

I think both are horrific and a sad indictment of both situations.

I have no clever answers and no agenda either way but please quote facts when presenting your argument.

BV

Thomas coupling
9th Nov 2018, 14:02
328 deaths from mass shootings in the Us Vs 115 fatal stabbings.
C'mon Racedo...sort yourself out.

Sallyann1234
9th Nov 2018, 14:26
It's also worth pointing out that 'mass' shootings are by definition the killing of entirely innocent victims.
Many of the knife crimes in London are between gang members who are choosing to fight.

charliegolf
9th Nov 2018, 14:29
An' they're not mass stabbings, neither! Add in the regular, one-off shootings and compare with the stabbings.

CG

SMT Member
9th Nov 2018, 14:40
More people have died in knife stabbings in London than in mass shootings in the US this year.

Was that on your resume, when you landed a job in the Trump administration as a fact checker?

racedo
9th Nov 2018, 16:23
I do not wish to wade into the argument on either side but may I please challenge your facts?

http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-many-mass-shootings-in-america-this-year-2018-2

https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/london-violence-list-murder-victims-killed-in-the-capital-so-far-this-year/amp/

Those articles will tell you there have been 307 mass shootings so far this year in the US. I didn’t read far enough to find an exact casualty figure but ‘mass’ implies many. And that doesn’t include other gun related homicides.

There have been 117 fatal stabbings in London during the same period.

I think both are horrific and a sad indictment of both situations.

I have no clever answers and no agenda either way but please quote facts when presenting your argument.

BV


Mass Murder rather than shooting as defined by FBI has killed 158 people in US this year.

racedo
9th Nov 2018, 16:30
It's also worth pointing out that 'mass' shootings are by definition the killing of entirely innocent victims.
Many of the knife crimes in London are between gang members who are choosing to fight.

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/london-violence-list-murder-victims-killed-in-the-capital-so-far-this-year/

Have you actually read who has died ?

Bob Viking
9th Nov 2018, 16:39
Fair enough. Not as many deaths as might be expected from over 300 mass shootings. But 158 is still more than 117.

Both statistics are scandalous.

I for one respect Americans right to own guns but I just don’t think they have the balance right. I have no idea how to address the problem.

As for the London problem there is very much a cultural aspect at play and, once again, I have no idea how to fix it.

I have travelled the US extensively (visited 32 states so far) and if there’s one thing that is very obvious. They all have their own identity. Except Delaware. I mean really. What’s the point?! That’s a joke by the way.

Trying to expect a Montana resident to work to the same rules as a Manhattanite is never going to happen.

As I said, I have no idea what the solution is but I wish the killing would stop.

BV

racedo
9th Nov 2018, 17:00
Fair enough. Not as many deaths as might be expected from over 300 mass shootings. But 158 is still more than 117.

Both statistics are scandalous.

I for one respect Americans right to own guns but I just don’t think they have the balance right. I have no idea how to address the problem.

As for the London problem there is very much a cultural aspect at play and, once again, I have no idea how to fix it.

I have travelled the US extensively (visited 32 states so far) and if there’s one thing that is very obvious. They all have their own identity. Except Delaware. I mean really. What’s the point?! That’s a joke by the way.

Trying to expect a Montana resident to work to the same rules as a Manhattanite is never going to happen.

As I said, I have no idea what the solution is but I wish the killing would stop.

BV

This was 37 events..............

Pontius Navigator
9th Nov 2018, 17:15
From one of the related YouTube clips that pop up was one of armed defence.

Two unarmed intruders entered a house and armed themselves with kitchen knives.. They disturbed a woman who woke, had a pistol, and challenged the intruders. She fired three shots and they fled.

A man, in a different bedroom immediately reacted and jumped out of bed gun in hand and ran to assist. It was all caught on the home webcams. A classic argument for guns in the home. Yes, I can see the risk of an Oscar Pretorius event as well.

BAengineer
9th Nov 2018, 23:31
Just heard that there were 5 off-duty cops in the bar last night but they were all unarmed due to the strict anti-gun Laws in California that prohibit guns being taken into bars..

FakePilot
10th Nov 2018, 00:04
It's also worth pointing out that 'mass' shootings are by definition the killing of entirely innocent victims.
Many of the knife crimes in London are between gang members who are choosing to fight.

Wait! I couldn't use that argument so neither can you. We do have a shooting problem though.

FakePilot
10th Nov 2018, 00:06
328 deaths from mass shootings in the Us Vs 115 fatal stabbings.
C'mon Racedo...sort yourself out.
Remember when the US had 40000 gun deaths and UK had 7 murders total?

ExSp33db1rd
10th Nov 2018, 04:50
Just heard that there were 5 off-duty cops in the bar last night but they were all unarmed due to the strict anti-gun Laws in California that prohibit guns being taken into bars..

But I bet they were asked for I.D. to prove age before they were allowed to buy a beer ! ( I know, being Cops the bartender wouldn't dare not )

Whilst we're USA bashing ( and I'm married to one remember ) when are they going to sort out their ludicrous reporting of the date ? I can accept Small, Medium, Large, or even Large, Medium, Small, but what's with their Medium, Small, Large format i.e. Month, Day, Year. ? They are the only country in the World to do this, and even my wife agrees that it is illogical, but unfortunately it is ingrained in her 83 year old brain, causes us all sorts of Family Life problems. Was recently called a liar 'cos I declared my birthday as Sept 11th. then had to produce my NZ diving licence, and was told that my birthday was 9th November, no amount of explanation worked, but as I was till old enough to drink it didn't matter. It's bad enough to be asked for age verification at every turn, but to be declared a liar, and regarded as some sort of criminal who is trying to pull one off is not funny. And no, many Americans don't know that they are alone in this, they don't even know that Life exists beyond the borders of New York or Los Angeles. I guess they don't have to, it works for them so stuff the rest of us ?

obgraham
10th Nov 2018, 05:35
Speedbird, really: There's 330 million of us. There's how many Kiwis?

Sit down and do as you're told!

On the other hand, and completely non sequitur: a lady just opened a shop here in Arizona making sausage rolls. Real, English, sausage rolls. Bloody good ones, too.

ExSp33db1rd
10th Nov 2018, 06:21
There's 330 million of us. There's how many Kiwis?

They are the only country in the World to do this,

There's how many Kiwis? Plus all the rest of the World. Something in the Billions isn't it ?

Enjoy the sausage rolls, a bit of H.P. Sauce helps ( Barbecue Brown Sauce, tho' don't know what you'd call it ?)

bcgallacher
10th Nov 2018, 07:58
For the most part these mass killings have been carried out by a single nutter - absolutely nothing is being done to keep guns out of the hands of such people. I am sure that in the not too distant future a group of like minded idiots will get together and really do a number on one of the usual targets - what would it take to get some kind of action to reduce the number of such incidents. Many countries appear to have significantly less gun massacres,why not the USA?5vv

Pontius Navigator
10th Nov 2018, 08:46
To do with writing, proper writing?

Took piece of paper, sharpened quill, dipped pen in ink -

Nov

Dearest Aunt,

I begin this letter . . . .

_---------

It might take a number of days before the missive is complete with the day being added after the month, the paper sealed and despatched by the packet ship for home.

Was it the Japanese who develop the reverse notation 201811100844? Where logically the calendar stamp should be the last line? 20181110084545?

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Nov 2018, 09:27
It might take a number of days before the missive is complete with the day being added after the month, the paper sealed and despatched by the packet ship for home.
It was common to name the ship (and even the captain), not just write "the packet ship". And you knew perfectly well when the packet was sailing, and that was the deadline for completing the letter, so no scope for "might take a number of days" or you'd miss the boat.

TURIN
10th Nov 2018, 10:40
Thread drift.

Date format. My employer, and several others I frequently deal with (even some US ones), have now insisted on the NN/MMM/NNNN format for all documentation after a few MEL items dropped dead on the wrong date. Out of compliance.

Sallyann1234
10th Nov 2018, 10:40
From one of the related YouTube clips that pop up was one of armed defence.

Two unarmed intruders entered a house and armed themselves with kitchen knives.. They disturbed a woman who woke, had a pistol, and challenged the intruders. She fired three shots and they fled.

A man, in a different bedroom immediately reacted and jumped out of bed gun in hand and ran to assist. It was all caught on the home webcams. A classic argument for guns in the home. Yes, I can see the risk of an Oscar Pretorius event as well.
A rare case of guns in the hand of civilians actually being useful. But it is no excuse for the thousands of useless deaths.
A wise general will always sacrifice a platoon to save a regiment. A wise president should think the same way in a war on guns.
But it will never happen and the slaughter continues.
Next time there is a gun massacre, there will be a thread on pprune like this one. And it will eventually be locked, like this one.

Mr Optimistic
10th Nov 2018, 10:45
That's how it starts. One day sausage rolls, then come the pasties and Eccles cakes. Food to nourish anyone's trigger finger.

WingNut60
10th Nov 2018, 10:55
That's how it starts. One day sausage rolls, then come the pasties and Eccles cakes. Food to nourish anyone's trigger finger.

And for the truly brave of heart ----- cold (gelatinous) pork pies.

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Nov 2018, 10:58
Date format. My employer, and several others I frequently deal with (even some US ones), have now insisted on the NN/MMM/NNNN format for all documentation after a few MEL items dropped dead on the wrong date. Out of compliance.
I work with computers. So there's only one sane date format, ISO[#], and in Zulu time at that. Which everybody agrees with, but not everybody does. So at least when I find a non-ISO date nobody tries to stop me fixing it.

[#] And there's ms since epoch, of course, but that's not intended to be human readable.

BAengineer
10th Nov 2018, 14:17
I think there is a form of gun control that might be supported by both sides of the political divide - registered Democrats being barred from gun ownership. The Democrats would support it because 'some gun control is better than none' and Republicans would support it because it doesn't affect them.

Nomad2
10th Nov 2018, 14:19
If the yanks don't care, why should anyone else bother?

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Nov 2018, 14:52
If the yanks don't care, why should anyone else bother?
'Cos we use US software and have to sell our software to the US?

Pontius Navigator
10th Nov 2018, 16:02
'Cos we use US software and have to sell our software to the US?
A short question, So?

However I note that American films and many series on TV together with computer games revolve around blood, death and general mayhem. In contrast, as befits unarmed police British drama is far less violent. We have nothing to rival Lethal Weapon. Do these US games and TV desensitise them to violence?

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Nov 2018, 17:09
A short question, So?
So I have to bother if I want to get paid, because I won't get paid for shipping US dates to non-US customers and I won't get paid for shipping sensible dates to US customers (I know this, because I've tried - I set it to say 2018/11/10 to everybody so that everybody can understand it and there's no possible scope for confusion, and - more to the point - we've only got to support one configuration - and the American customers said "nope, don't understand that foreign gibberish, make it say 11/10/2018").

Pontius Navigator
10th Nov 2018, 17:13
GTW,, thank you, I made the cardinal sin on JB assuming your reply was actually related to the thread topic ☺
​​​​​​

Lonewolf_50
10th Nov 2018, 17:35
GTW,, thank you, I made the cardinal sin on JB assuming your reply was actually related to the thread topic ☺
PN: you are now going to have to man up and accept your punishment.
Chug a pint. :cool:

oicur12.again
10th Nov 2018, 17:55
“So what’s your solution? Seriously, what would you actually do about it if you were President?”

Act like an adult and have a real discussion about the issue is step one.
America is terrified of genuine public discourse. No genuine discussion takes place about climate change or the purposeful deception known as Iraqi WMD. Why would gun homicide be any different?
Get the money out of politics. Stop the NRA from buying influence in Washington.
Then maybe stop big oil from writing foreign policy and stop big pharma from writing healthcare policy and heck lets even stop Goldman Sachs from actually being the Federal Reserve!
This is called corruption.

Tankertrashnav
10th Nov 2018, 18:14
I'm with Speedbird on that date thing, still seems bloody daft the way the cousins do it. While we are at it why do they still cling on to Fahrenheit when the rest of the world has long switched to Celsius, even we old fashioned old Brits? Ok it's not quite rest of the world, there is still Belize, the Bahamas, the Cayman Islands and Pulau (where the heck is that?) using the quaint old Fahrenheit system.

flash8
10th Nov 2018, 22:27
Nothing can ever be done in reality, there are more firearms than people (350 million) in the US... with over 390 million *civilian* firearms in the wild any attempt to get some sort of control is long over.

If I were in the US, I'd be far, far more scared of being shot by an errant Police Officer however.

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Nov 2018, 00:16
If I were in the US, I'd be far, far more scared of being shot by an errant Police Officer however.
Oh, are you a black child then?

WingNut60
11th Nov 2018, 00:55
Nothing can ever be done in reality, ......

Your post may be statistically correct, however the notion that "Nothing can ever be done" is not correct.
Refer also to previous posts in the previous multitude of similar threads.

There is a similar multitude of things that can be done.
What is missing is any inclination to actually implement even one.
And until there is, these threads are simply waffle.

currawong
11th Nov 2018, 01:12
Drug induced psychosis is the elephant in the room that the media will not touch.

Given the prevalence of prescribed and unregulated/recreational drug use, it should be looked at as a matter of urgency.

https://www.cchrint.org/2017/10/10/another-mass-shooting-another-psychiatric-drug/

WingNut60
11th Nov 2018, 01:45
Drug induced psychosis is the elephant in the room that the media will not touch.

Given the prevalence of prescribed and unregulated/recreational drug use, it should be looked at as a matter of urgency.

https://www.cchrint.org/2017/10/10/another-mass-shooting-another-psychiatric-drug/

Certainly in the case of the Melbourne event.
If a taser was used first, as reported, why did the assailant seem totally unaffected by it?

currawong
11th Nov 2018, 02:17
I cannot answer that. Could be a number of reasons.

But the possibility of encountering body armor and PSP affected individuals in these situations is real.

Pontius Navigator
11th Nov 2018, 15:12
I'm with Speedbird on that date thing, still seems bloody daft the way the cousins do it. While we are at it why do they still cling on to Fahrenheit when the rest of the world has long switched to Celsius, even we old fashioned old Brits? Ok it's not quite rest of the world, there is still Belize, the Bahamas, the Cayman Islands and Pulau (where the heck is that?) using the quaint old Fahrenheit system.
110 volts. At least it is AC.


B
asically there are two main standards for voltage and frequency in the world. One is the standard of 110-120 volts at a frequency of 60 Hz (mostly used in USA), and the other is the standard of 220–240 volts at 50 Hz (mostly used in Europe). China uses generally 220V, 50HZ, AC (Hong Kong is 200V; Taiwan is 110V).

double_barrel
11th Nov 2018, 16:33
Plenty of other examples where there is the international standard and the America way of doing it. One that springs to mind is the international code flag for 'I have a diver down please keep clear' - code flag A, except for Americans who invented their own. And the lateral navigation buoys, the Americans do it in reverse, and as for weights and measure - I recall a Mars probe crashed because of a mixup between newtons and foot pounds!!

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Nov 2018, 16:54
Plenty of other examples where there is the international standard and the America way of doing it.
Paper sizes.

obgraham
11th Nov 2018, 17:52
Paper sizes.Not this one!
"8 1/2 by 11" tells me the sheet is, well, 8.5 by 11 inches.

A4? Say what? Now who's thrown logic away?

And lets not get started on "stones", or highway speeds in the UK.

Bob Viking
11th Nov 2018, 18:08
I think you could argue that one either way.

How often have you honestly thought to yourself ‘I need to write something down. Hmm. 12”x9” would just be too much paper for me. And, dang it, 10”x7” just won’t cut it. Ah, bingo! Bring me my trusty 11”x8.5”’

I cant think of any time I would specify a piece of paper by its dimensions. A1-A6 is far easier to refer too and very logical. A2 is half the size of A1, A3 half the size of A2 and so on.

I suspect, though, this is one of those classic arguments where everyone will just argue in favour of what they’re used to.

BV

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Nov 2018, 18:23
"8 1/2 by 11" tells me the sheet is, well, 8.5 by 11 inches.
What is an "inch"?

(OK, so I'm old enough to know, but by now probably most Brits aren't.)

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Nov 2018, 18:26
I suspect, though, this is one of those classic arguments where everyone will just argue in favour of what they’re used to.
What I was brought up with, what I was taught to type with, was quarto, foolscap and octavo. This didn't stop me learning very quickly how the much more sensible A paper sizes (and corresponding C envelope sizes) worked (with DL being a bit of an afterthought oddity, it seems to me).

arketip
11th Nov 2018, 18:27
Not this one!
"8 1/2 by 11" tells me the sheet is, well, 8.5 by 11 inches.

Isn't that called "letter"?

Two's in
11th Nov 2018, 18:30
How dare you cast aspersions on the US resistance to using the metric system! We stand firmly with those other global powerhouses, Myanmar and Liberia, on this issue.

That said, at least here in the US we are consistently retarded with our use of imperial measures, the UK seems to conveniently forget that miles and pints are not metric at all.

Pontius Navigator
11th Nov 2018, 18:47
Once upon a time it was decreed we would switch from foolscap. Now our war manual, 111 pages and some hundreds of copies was top secret and the cost of getting sufficient clerical staff to rewrite and reprint the manual would have broken the bank.

The editor impounded all the foolscap paper in Bomber Command and continued to issue amendments in the old paper.

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Nov 2018, 18:51
We stand firmly with those other global powerhouses, Myanmar ...
The utterly bizarre thing I found about Burma and standards is the use of right hand drive cars to drive on the right.

Overtaking is fun. Not.

Ancient Mariner
11th Nov 2018, 18:55
The utterly bizarre thing I found about Burma and standards is the use of right hand drive cars to drive on the right.

Overtaking is fun. Not.
Sweden in them olden days, the opposite.
Per

Pontius Navigator
11th Nov 2018, 18:56
GTW, not at all, the Swedes used LHD to drive on the left. One reason why they didn't have any great difficulty switching.

SMT Member
11th Nov 2018, 18:56
Not this one!
"8 1/2 by 11" tells me the sheet is, well, 8.5 by 11 inches.

A4? Say what? Now who's thrown logic away?

And lets not get started on "stones", or highway speeds in the UK.

Easy. A1 is equal to 1 square meter. A2 is half of that. A3 is half of that, and A4 is half of that again. Which makes A4 equal to 0.125 square meters. Just admit it, the metric system is superior in every way compared to the mish mash of feet, inches, pounds, ounces, miles, yards and gallons.

obgraham
11th Nov 2018, 19:00
I'd be all for adopting metric for everything, if it could be adjusted to Base 12, which is much better adapted to human behavior and more amenable to simple arithmetic.

Um... lifting...
11th Nov 2018, 21:13
An engineering professor one had yonks ago stated the proper system would be one where the gravitational constant was unity. People wish for what makes their own lives easier.

Well, one could see his point.

One ten-millionth of the distance from the Equator to the North Pole (in 1793) is no more or less arbitrary than the length of the foot of the reigning monarch, or the cubit & span, or the various sizes of containers for transporting ale. And what ever is gopher wood? Nobody seems to be certain.

Another physics professor had a lab coat he wore around which was emblazoned with: "Nobel Prize Runner-Up". Turns out he wasn't having us on at all. He had discussed the propagation of the speed of darkness. He tried to explain it once to our class. Well, that was a mistake.

As it was we learned kilograms and slugs for mass, newtons and pounds for weight, 9.81 and 32.2 for gravitational acceleration. And the Inuit have dozens of words for 'snow'.

F=mA. Derive the rest.

Sallyann1234
11th Nov 2018, 21:39
I'd be all for adopting metric for everything, if it could be adjusted to Base 12, which is much better adapted to human behavior and more amenable to simple arithmetic.
Base 1 is very popular nowadays.

Gertrude the Wombat
11th Nov 2018, 21:40
slugs
Didn't a spaceship get lost when some conversion involving slug-poundals-per-fortnight went wrong? A Mars probe, or something? Pointed the wrong way when the end result of the calculations was that Mons Olympus was 27,000 light years tall?

Oh, and then there's Calcomp plotters. They're in inches, or centimetres, or millimetres. No way to ask which, you just have to know. Run some software written for a millimetre based plotter on an inch based plotter and watch the pen holder smash into the end stop at full speed as it tries to move 25.4 football pitches to the right.

WingNut60
11th Nov 2018, 22:03
Easy. A1 is equal to 1 square meter. A2 is half of that. A3 is half of that, and A4 is half of that again. Which makes A4 equal to 0.125 square meters. Just admit it, the metric system is superior in every way compared to the mish mash of feet, inches, pounds, ounces, miles, yards and gallons.

Except that it is not square.and it is not even close to a square metre.
It is, by my calcs, 499554 sq mm (let's say a half (no, let's say 1/2)) lets say 0.5 sq metres.
And its dimensions use the ever forgettable ratio of 1.415825 : 1.

And unfortunately, the base unit (A0) is nowhere near non-existent (0 sq metres?).

I'd be all for adopting metric for everything, if it could be adjusted to Base 12, which is much better adapted to human behavior and more amenable to simple arithmetic.

Especially if you are still using shillings and pence.
Or if your mother was Tasmanian.

WingNut60
11th Nov 2018, 22:13
........ the end result of the calculations was that Mons Olympus was 27,000 light years tall........

I think I knew her.

Um... lifting...
11th Nov 2018, 23:51
Paper sizes. A0 is 1 square metre. A1 is half that, etc.

The shapes are not based on the metric system, sorry. They're based on the golden rectangle, which far predates the metric system. Yes, they decided to base the reference size on the area of a single square metre, but it's not inherently a metric paper size.

Fibonacci. Check with him, he'll explain it, but you're confusing ratios with a reference unit of measurement. Not the same thing 'tall.

Paper Sizes (https://www.papersizes.org/a-paper-sizes-tsta.htm?utm_expid=76296969-1675.RJoMUqt0TyO9xVbJnRsT2w.1)

Good honest pounds, inches, and slugs put man on the moon. My engineering education used both that system of units and SI, or metric units.

I thought everybody's did. After all, the slug connotes mass in a system known as British Engineering units. Are you saying that the Yanks know your system better than you do? It would appear that you are saying that indeed.

You lot bang on about needing to take off a stone so your trousers will fit and get upset that a U.S. pint is smaller than a British pint while jailing greengrocers for selling bananas by the pound. Make up your minds, can't you?

Tankertrashnav
12th Nov 2018, 00:57
We really are stuck in no-mans land between Imperial and metric in the UK. Back when I was teaching I used to casually ask pupils how tall they were or how heavy. These were pupils who had never been taught anything other than the metric system of weights and measures, but they would invariably reply (eg) 5 foot 3, or 8 stone 6. Ask them what that was in metric they wouldn't have a clue. Also if you go to a builders' merchants and ask for a 2 metre length of 4 by 2 they wont bat an eyelid. And yet we seem to manage.

Ascend Charlie
12th Nov 2018, 04:49
The metric system wouldn't be funny at all, when Mae West asked a man how tall he was:
"I'se 6 foot, 7 inches, ma'am."
"Forget about the 6 foot, let's talk about the 7 inches..."

double_barrel
12th Nov 2018, 05:53
We really are stuck in no-mans land between Imperial and metric in the UK. Back when I was teaching I used to casually ask pupils how tall they were or how heavy. These were pupils who had never been taught anything other than the metric system of weights and measures, but they would invariably reply (eg) 5 foot 3, or 8 stone 6. Ask them what that was in metric they wouldn't have a clue. Also if you go to a builders' merchants and ask for a 2 metre length of 4 by 2 they wont bat an eyelid. And yet we seem to manage.

And like most Brit sailors, I think of boat lengths in feet but draft (and depths) in metres! eg describing a 38 foot boat drawing 1.2 metres!

At sea, all depth and air draft calculations are purely in metres - why does the flying world stick with feet?
And wind speed is a mess. I think of winds in knots, but many (most?) outside UK think only in m/s.
And what about QNH in Inches Hg vs hectopascals ? That's really crazy to run two systems in parallel.

Um... lifting...
12th Nov 2018, 08:13
At sea, all depth and air draft calculations are purely in metres - why does the flying world stick with feet?

Unfathomable.

And wind speed is a mess. I think of winds in knots, but many (most?) outside UK think only in m/s.

Double m/s, she's close enough so long as you're subsonic and not doing research.

And what about QNH in Inches Hg vs hectopascals ? That's really crazy to run two systems in parallel.

You really need to fly helicopters somewhere that uses QFE and switches to QNH and has ample opportunities for off-aerodrome landings that are significantly below sea level. There is something sublime about the barometric altimeter passing through 0 when one is still high enough in the air to get badly hurt.

All of these things are designed to keep out the riffraff.

Flash2001
12th Nov 2018, 20:12
There is also a system based on a single standard, the Smoot. The various dimensions are those of a student at MIT who devised the system.

Um... lifting...
12th Nov 2018, 23:38
The humble Smoot.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x800/the_smoot_plaque_2de19cc2c00ced2e091c554fbb91d8a27b4b03bb.jp g

eal401
13th Nov 2018, 12:12
Unbelievable.

A thread discussing the issue of mass murders in the US turns into more concern about measures, sizes and date formats.

Humanity really is made up of retards.... (posted deliberately because I know the snowflake blizzard that word creates even when applied correctly.)

double_barrel
13th Nov 2018, 12:33
IncredibleOutcry after police shoot African-American security guard 'hero'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46187460


So if the solution to shootings in schools is to arm teachers, better make sure you only arm the white ones.

There clearly is a fundamental problem here. The militarization of the police, who are prepared (dare I say expect) to engage in a gun battle on every call is one of the drivers of this mad spiral.

FakePilot
13th Nov 2018, 13:22
On a good note, my state just implemented a "red flag" law. Now, if someone displays worrisome behavior, a judge can have all their guns removed. Since the Supreme Court would ultimately protect against abuse of this law, I'm ok with trying it out.

currawong
16th Nov 2018, 04:07
On a good note, my state just implemented a "red flag" law. Now, if someone displays worrisome behavior, a judge can have all their guns removed. Since the Supreme Court would ultimately protect against abuse of this law, I'm ok with trying it out.

This is routine were I live in Australia, but the process is automatic not requiring the input of a judge.

This expedites the process, but also leaves it open to abuse. For example, a vindictive spouse/ex spouse can make an unsubstantiated claim that will see police obliged to confiscate weapons.

Not sure of the numbers but I think within 24 hours for a period of 5 years (?) then a review process can be undertaken for return (?). Someone may be able to jump in with more knowledge there.

Certainly a safety valve for criminal or mental health concerns, however "patient confidentiality" makes this problematical.

T28B
28th Nov 2018, 04:17
Yet another shooting happened today, and this time at the Walter Reed Medical Center in the United States. I don't know many of the details, but this time it was at a Veterans Hospital. Truly sad, but ever so believable, in fact I think that I would be shocked if a month went by without someone in the United States practicing his/her inalienable, God-given, 2nd Amendment protected right to bare and use arms on full-auto against unsuspecting innocent victims. The hunt for the bottom of the pit continues in America. (not as a mod, was just passing through)
You post caught my interest.
Is this the one, or a different one? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-investigating-reports-of-possible-shooting-incident-at-walter-reed/2018/11/27/082c3f16-f27b-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3bc36b7214da)