Secret recording

[unitedabx]

Is there any truth that last Fridays CX/HKAOA meeting was secretly recorded ( by the company ) and in the recording GC members promotions and management appointments were discussed IF they could pursuade the membership to drop the TB by the New year ?

[kenfoggo]

What evidence do you have of such morally bankrupt activity?

[unitedabx]

What evidence do you have of such morally bankrupt activity?




I heard that "the recording" was in lieu of meeting notes being taken and a one off BUT that the company deliberately introduced GC "inducements" to promote a settlement and ending of the TB. Such a recording could be used either way and is very sinister indeed if true.
No evidence.

[Numero Crunchero]

The Ops/AOA meeting is today - not last Friday. But hey, this is a rumour network.

[lessonlearnt]

Well done DS.....and your useless minions......
YOU will destroy this union.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

lesson learnt why are you getting so angry over this, there is no proof, just a rumour. Dont be so quick to come to a conclusion

[Oasis]

Could be false flag from company, in any case let’s monitor the career paths of the gc for a while.
Such a recording will never see the light of day.

[unitedabx]

The Ops/AOA meeting is today - not last Friday. But hey, this is a rumour network.

Wrong a meeting took place last Friday. Official or not it took place. The negotiators had Office days and the meeting was in the afternoon.

[unitedabx]

Could be false flag from company, in any case let’s monitor the career paths of the gc for a while.
Such a recording will never see the light of day.

Agreed it will nver see the light of day but the scandle is it exits and the HKAOA know that but are denying it. Lying to the membership is a criminal offence.

[skyboss]

Every meeting should be recorded, records of it should be stored for 5 years, just in case the AOA membership gets the feeling that the NC and or GC have been corrupted by CX

[ACMS]

Seriously some of you guys are hanging on way too tight..........take a breath.......in and out.......in and out.......

[unitedabx]

Every meeting should be recorded, records of it should be stored for 5 years, just in case the AOA membership gets the feeling that the NC and or GC have been corrupted by CX

Agreed but in every negotiation the company demands secrecy and the HKAOA agree WHY ?

[Steve the Pirate]

To be fair - Yes I am angry over this

Maybe its because our union has done F@£K all for me since I have joined....
Just waisted my time and money. I will resign from this AOA excuse of a union very soon.

Funny, I don't recall seeing anyone else's name on the ballot for Chairman. If you think the current incumbent is ineffectual then perhaps you should have put your name forward?

STP

[unitedabx]

Funny, I don't recall seeing anyone else's name on the ballot for Chairman. If you think the current incumbent is ineffectual then perhaps you should have put your name forward?

STP

The 'chairman' should resign. He is a total waste of space and a poor excuse for a union leader. Resign at take your job on the 3rd floor as promised. Please just go.

[Freehills]

Agreed it will nver see the light of day but the scandle is it exits and the HKAOA know that but are denying it. Lying to the membership is a criminal offence.

isnt it a criminal offence not to report a criminal offence? Maybe you should make a police report to keep yourself out of jeopardy

[Numero Crunchero]

Unitedabx you did make me laugh so thank you for that. As they say, never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Please file that report - I'd like to hear what was said.

[unitedabx]

Unitedabx should us some proof or stfu..... oh wait you have none

Non at the moment but if and when I do are we ready to demand our entire negotiating team resign. Standby.

[Numero Crunchero]

Non at the moment but if and when I do are we ready to demand our entire negotiating team resign. Standby.

Wow - I thought maybe you had heard a third hand rumour and then got it wrong hence I thought your posts hilarious.

Now I am left with two options. You are either a delusional individual or you are purely muck raking for your own purposes (which I don't understand)

If you know who I am you will know I am speaking with 100% accuracy. Your posts are almost entirely wrong - the only thing you actually got right was that ODs were on the roster.

The rest of your comments are entirely inaccurate.

[AnAmusedReader]

Spot on Steve. All the ll's who whinge and moan about the committee have never, I suspect, had the balls to take their turn and try and do something about all they bitch about.
AAR

[Oasis]

Non at the moment but if and when I do are we ready to demand our entire negotiating team resign. Standby.
If it's true, it would be a real crisis for the union and it's members, and they should resign.

[unitedabx]

If it's true, it would be a real crisis for the union and it's members, and they should resign.

I note there has been not a single attempt at denial from the union. Not a peep.

[Oasis]

I note there has been not a single attempt at denial from the union. Not a peep.
Doesn't mean anything until there is proof, can you get it?

[OK4Wire]

I note there has been not a single attempt at denial from the union. Not a peep.

You want them to deny something that does not (yet) exist?

[unitedabx]

You want them to deny something that does not (yet) exist?

I simply want them to confirm they adhered and forced the company to adhere to the agreement that there would be no recordings only agreed minutes. My point is, "rewrads" for the AOA team were deliberately mentioned at this meeting and the conversation recorded so pressure could be applied to force a recommendation to the members. When the company siad we are recording this, the team should have walked out. They didn't. Why not ? I suggest because they wanted to hear what was on offer to them if they reccommend acceptance.

[Numero Crunchero]

I simply want them to confirm they adhered and forced the company to adhere to the agreement that there would be no recordings only agreed minutes. My point is, "rewrads" for the AOA team were deliberately mentioned at this meeting and the conversation recorded so pressure could be applied to force a recommendation to the members. When the company siad we are recording this, the team should have walked out. They didn't. Why not ? I suggest because they wanted to hear what was on offer to them if they reccommend acceptance.

Isn't it about time you showed some proof? I am particularly close to the coal face on this - and so far the only thing you have right was that the NC were on ODs. They met with the GC all day Friday, in TST to update them on the position of the company offer. And all the GC honchos were there - so please do tell who met the company to trade for management positions and promotions?


So what game are you playing united? Do you just hate being in the minority that didn't vote for DSS? And you want the membership and GC to take a different direction? If so, have some character and do so on the aoa forums.

Your completely false accusations show you to be of little character.

[unitedabx]

Isn't it about time you showed some proof? I am particularly close to the coal face on this - and so far the only thing you have right was that the NC were on ODs. They met with the GC all day Friday, in TST to update them on the position of the company offer. And all the GC honchos were there - so please do tell who met the company to trade for management positions and promotions?


So what game are you playing united? Do you just hate being in the minority that didn't vote for DSS? And you want the membership and GC to take a different direction? If so, have some character and do so on the aoa forums.

Your completely false accusations show you to be of little character.

The original replies to my first post said "no meeting took place last Friday " I challenged this and later it was admitted and again in your last post that a meeting DID take place. The meeting was scheduled and the team had OD's rostered. IOf you are close the the coalfield as you say then you know that the company introduced a handheld digital recording device and said their usual minute taker was sick. The AOA did not offer their own minute taker and accepted the recording. ARE YOU SAYING this did not occur ? While each side waited for a late company manager to arrive the promotion and advancement of a number of the AOA team was informally discussed. One to TC and one into fleet management. ARE YOU DENYING this occured? The recording device was on for ALL that converstaion, informal or not. It did not and will not constitute part of any published minutes ( not that any are ever published ) but on rostered AOA business, personal advancements were discussed.
Do you really want names ?

[Tea time]

All meetings should be recorded with each side keeping a copy which should then be transcribed . Once transcribed the copies are compared against one another for accuracy then and only then should the recordings be permitted to be destroyed

[unitedabx]

All meetings should be recorded with each side keeping a copy which should then be transcribed . Once transcribed the copies are compared against one another for accuracy then and only then should the recordings be permitted to be destroyed

Agreed TT but this was not what happened. One side decided to record and the other ( AOA ) didn't object and then went on to discuss "sweetners" if the NC and GC pushed for a settlement. Whatever wassaidshould be made public "sweetners" and all.

[Liam Gallagher]

Unitedabx,

These are big accusations and frankly my BS detector is at full deflection. So yeah... I want you to name names.

If your scoop story is Darryl wants to go into management, then big deal, anyone with half a brain knows that. He was the company's preferred candidate and if he can deliver the union's gonads in a jar of formaldehyde (aka the peace clause), then he can expect a ticker-tape parade through Swire House leading to his chair on the 3rd floor. Numero Crunchero makes no secret that he wants to go into training. But here's the important thing, neither of them will do this while the TB is in place.

However, since we are playing mindless BS games on pprune, I also want you to name your source. If you were in the room, you would be shouting that from the roof tops, so I'll make a wild guess that you were not in the room. I'll take another wild guess and say there were two types of people in the room, union people and company people. So your source is which, union people or company people?

As I have said previously, I like the cut of your gib, but if you don't stop talking in riddles, you will look like just another kn0b on Pprune hiding behind an anonymous callsign.

[Liam Gallagher]

NC

Gotta take exception to the comment about being in the minority that didn't vote for DSS. There were 3 candidates in the election in 2016 and it is entirely feasible that the majority voted for the other two. As for the election of 2018, I bet my 13th month the majority didn't vote for DSS. In fact, I bet the majority didn't vote at all!!

Apart from willy waving, why is this important? When you or anyone else is in the room negotiating away my ARAPA and rights to engage in Industrial Action and lock me into a 0% pay rise whilst inflation is running at 2.4%, please don't think you have an electoral mandate to do so, because you don't. You are doing this entirely on your own and for your own purposes.

DSS could not be bothered to put up a manifesto in the 2018 election, but in 2016 I don't recall him saying he would;

1. Present a bundled deal. The bundled deal was a major failing in 2016.
2. A HKPA deal less than what was offered in 2016.
3. An ARAPA deal inferior to the previous deal.
4. DSS claimed to be in the room when 25 year Housing was promised and he claimed he would hold the company to that promise. This has completely dropped off the radar.... Silence.... Gone.. Nada...
5. Nobody liked Clause 7 and yet it seems we are getting Clause 7 on steroids.
6. And last but not least, I sure don't remember DSS promising to fight for a 0% pay rise.

Let's be brutally honest NC, had DSS stood on a manifesto based on those 6 items he would have got zero votes. In fact, he would have got lynched. He promised what he needed to promise to get elected. So NC, please don't claim you or anyone else has any electoral mandate to negotiate away our T&Cs, because you don't.

[unitedabx]

Unitedabx,

These are big accusations and frankly my BS detector is at full deflection. So yeah... I want you to name names.

If your scoop story is Darryl wants to go into management, then big deal, anyone with half a brain knows that. He was the company's preferred candidate and if he can deliver the union's gonads in a jar of formaldehyde (aka the peace clause), then he can expect a ticker-tape parade through Swire House leading to his chair on the 3rd floor. Numero Crunchero makes no secret that he wants to go into training. But here's the important thing, neither of them will do this while the TB is in place.

However, since we are playing mindless BS games on pprune, I also want you to name your source. If you were in the room, you would be shouting that from the roof tops, so I'll make a wild guess that you were not in the room. I'll take another wild guess and say there were two types of people in the room, union people and company people. So your source is which, union people or company people?

As I have said previously, I like the cut of your gib, but if you don't stop talking in riddles, you will look like just another kn0b on Pprune hiding behind an anonymous callsign.




I am non-union and non-company.
My source, the young lady who typed the transcript for the company, Her mother and I have been friends for years. Names, DSS, PB and Mark C.

[Numero Crunchero]

Is there any truth that last Fridays CX/HKAOA meeting was secretly recorded ( by the company ) and in the recording GC members promotions and management appointments were discussed IF they could pursuade the membership to drop the TB by the New year ?

That was your original post unitabx - and the answer is NO.

You have since moved the goal posts on what you are asking - your last post says a meeting was held with DSS, PB and Mark C. I know who DSS is but no idea who PB or Mark C are? They are not on the GC nor are they known to me as managers at CX.


Now there is one slight problem. DSS was at TST all day with 15-18 witnesses who can verify his attendance there for a day long GC meeting. And the NC were give ODs to brief the GC.

So keep watching your X files reruns - the truth (or a good PPRUNE rumour) is out there!

[Farman Biplane]

Heh, NC, can you organise a livestream on the JCR agreement meetings over the next couple of days?
It will save the hassle of NDA’s and the extreme lack of any updates from the GC!

[unitedabx]

Is there any truth that last Fridays CX/HKAOA meeting was secretly recorded ( by the company ) and in the recording GC members promotions and management appointments were discussed IF they could pursuade the membership to drop the TB by the New year ?

That was your original post unitabx - and the answer is NO.

You have since moved the goal posts on what you are asking - your last post says a meeting was held with DSS, PB and Mark C. I know who DSS is but no idea who PB or Mark C are? They are not on the GC nor are they known to me as managers at CX.


Now there is one slight problem. DSS was at TST all day with 15-18 witnesses who can verify his attendance there for a day long GC meeting. And the NC were give ODs to brief the GC.

So keep watching your X files reruns - the truth (or a good PPRUNE rumour) is out there!

If the real names got out they would be linched !

[Numero Crunchero]

If the real names got out they would be linched !

Ohhh - so you made up the names- DSS, PB and Mark C to protect people from being lynched. Wow, that is so kind and considerate of you. And here I was, cynically thinking you had made up the whole thing.

Please keep doing these wonderful things and keep talking to your friends and neighbours - your friend's daughter typed the transcripts for the secret recordings, your neighbour's daughter is in ADL advising you how they are sticking it to CX. Wow - so lucky to have so many brilliant sources - you truly are well connected sir!

[Numero Crunchero]

Heh, NC, can you organise a livestream on the JCR agreement meetings over the next couple of days?
It will save the hassle of NDA’s and the extreme lack of any updates from the GC!


Hi Faman
I am pretty sure unitedabx already has the transcripts and recordings even though the meetings are next two days. ;-)

[Farman Biplane]

True, but he will have to ask for permission from his neighbours daughter to broadcast them!

[Freehills]

Eh - going through the phonebook.

Mark C - Head of Transformation Programme? A turkish surname
PB - GM Engineering?

I can see the first being involved, his ex boss is now GMA
The second would be a bit odd

[Numero Crunchero]

Freehills - unitedabx said he made up the names - cause if he used the real ones they would be linched(sic)

[Ex Douglas Driver]

I think that "Unitedabx" is an attempt at a Russian-esque misinformation campaign - managed by whom, I leave that up to you. Snippets of reality interspersed with loads of BS, blatant lies and malicious intent. Note that all "he" spreads on here is destabilising pilots, our union and our unity, at a time when it needs to be strengthened. Not one of his predictions have been shown to be correct, but have surely caused some here to wrongly start doubting the correct side of the argument.

[unitedabx]

I think that "Unitedabx" is an attempt at a Russian-esque misinformation campaign - managed by whom, I leave that up to you. Snippets of reality interspersed with loads of BS, blatant lies and malicious intent. Note that all "he" spreads on here is destabilising pilots, our union and our unity, at a time when it needs to be strengthened. Not one of his predictions have been shown to be correct, but have surely caused some here to wrongly start doubting the correct side of the argument.

Last year I predicted

1. No 13th month for captains
2. Early departure of AT
3. New contract for new joiners
4. Collapse of CMP
5. KA training ban


Not bad !!!!!

[Ex Douglas Driver]

Last year I predicted

1. No 13th month for captains
2. Early departure of AT
3. New contract for new joiners
4. Collapse of CMP
5. KA training ban


Not bad !!!!!

1. Your current account has a joining date of Jul 2018. Explain how you made this prediction for an event that occurred in Dec 2017?
2. You first post was Aug 2018. AT had left by mid Jul 2018
3. The new CoSXX (insert year of choice) had been rumoured on flight decks and leaked by the 3rd floor for years. No exclusivity on that one.
4. Debatable whether it's "collapsed". I'd agree that it doesn't seem to be going our way in for the JCR portion - the usual "no soup for you" CX gameplan. Came as no surprise to anyone who's been here for more than 5 minutes
5. KA training ban. Can't be bothered searching back through your posts, but the prediction was 50/50 and it isn't voted in yet.

[Kitsune]

I think that "Unitedabx" is an attempt at a Russian-esque misinformation campaign - managed by whom, I leave that up to you. Snippets of reality interspersed with loads of BS, blatant lies and malicious intent. Note that all "he" spreads on here is destabilising pilots, our union and our unity, at a time when it needs to be strengthened. Not one of his predictions have been shown to be correct, but have surely caused some here to wrongly start doubting the correct side of the argument.

The very same thought had struck me, very bot-like behaviour... says he’s from UK but sending a boat to Oz... best mates with boss of TUI...:cool:

[mothy1583]

Same strange things happening when you look at LessonLearnt. His profile has him/her as joining 13 Oct 2018 and somehow the system hasn't registered any of his 38 posts as being attributable to him.

It's got to be the Chinese arm of Swire's at work hacking the forum.

[unitedabx]

You guys honestly. You are amateurs in the world of online chat and blogging. Amateurs. You change your ATM password every few months don't you. No. Then you are idiots. Even the banks tell you to. So I and others change our names. FFS wake up.

[Kitsune]

You guys honestly. You are amateurs in the world of online chat and blogging. Amateurs. You change your ATM password every few months don't you. No. Then you are idiots. Even the banks tell you to. So I and others change our names. FFS wake up.

Misdirection again... (and who the hell uses cash anymore anyway...?)...:rolleyes:

[main_dog]

Misdirection!

[unitedabx]

Misdirection again... (and who the hell uses cash anymore anyway...?)...:rolleyes:

Depends on what you're buying and who you want to let know you are spending. Cash is king remember and every electromic transfer is traceable.

[cxorcist]

Depends on what you're buying and who you want to let know you are spending. Cash is king remember and every electromic transfer is traceable.

This is true, but “cash is king” does not refer to actual hard currency; rather it is not having to bank finance purchases or liquidate assets. Using a credit card may be unwise for various reasons, but “cash is king” is not one of them. Many people use them simply for convenience, like the Octopus card. You really are not the brightest UABX. I really hope I never get you in my cockpit.

[OK4Wire]

Cash is king because it is private.

Anything electronic essentially requires .gov approval (passive or otherwise).

[cxorcist]

Cash is king because it is private.

Anything electronic essentially requires .gov approval (passive or otherwise).

I don’t disagree about the privacy issue, but the phrase “cash is king” refers to the following...

"Cash is king" is an expression sometimes used in analyzing businesses or investment portfolios. It may refer to the importance of cash flow (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_flow) in the overall fiscal health of a business (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business). For investors it may also describe times when it is advantageous to have a large percentage of cash or short-term debt (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_market) instruments available either due to falling financial markets or due to the availability of investment opportunities.

The phrase was a favorite of Alex Spanos (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Spanos) and has sometimes appeared in Motley Fool (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motley_Fool) articles and commentaries. It describes the importance of sufficient cash as an asset in the business for short term operations, purchases and acquisitions. A company could have a large amount of accounts receivables (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounts_receivable) on its balance sheet (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_sheet) which would also increase equity (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareholder%27s_equity), but the company could still be short on cash (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money)with which to make purchases, including paying wages (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage) to workers for labor (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_(economics)). Unless it was able to convert its accounts receivable (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounts_receivable) and other current assets (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_asset) to cash quickly, it could fail and be technically bankrupt (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_failure) despite a positive net worth.

The origin of ”cash is king” is not clear. It was used in 1988, after the global stock market crash in 1987, by Pehr G. Gyllenhammar (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pehr_G._Gyllenhammar), who at the time was Chief Executive Officer of Swedish car group Volvo.

The phrase was widely used during the global financial crisis, which started in the fall of 2008. In the recession which followed the financial crisis, the phrase was often used to describe companies which could avoid share issues or bankruptcy. ”Cash is king” is relevant also to households, i.e., to avoid foreclosures.


... Notice how privacy is NOT the issue to which this phrase is relevant. When pilots misuse terms like this, we just look dumb to those in finance and indeed those executives “leading” CX. It’s akin to bad grammar.

[unitedabx]

I don’t disagree about the privacy issue, but the phrase “cash is king” refers to the following...

"Cash is king" is an expression sometimes used in analyzing businesses or investment portfolios. It may refer to the importance of cash flow (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_flow) in the overall fiscal health of a business (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business). For investors it may also describe times when it is advantageous to have a large percentage of cash or short-term debt (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_market) instruments available either due to falling financial markets or due to the availability of investment opportunities.

The phrase was a favorite of Alex Spanos (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Spanos) and has sometimes appeared in Motley Fool (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motley_Fool) articles and commentaries. It describes the importance of sufficient cash as an asset in the business for short term operations, purchases and acquisitions. A company could have a large amount of accounts receivables (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounts_receivable) on its balance sheet (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_sheet) which would also increase equity (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareholder%27s_equity), but the company could still be short on cash (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money)with which to make purchases, including paying wages (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage) to workers for labor (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_(economics)). Unless it was able to convert its accounts receivable (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounts_receivable) and other current assets (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_asset) to cash quickly, it could fail and be technically bankrupt (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_failure) despite a positive net worth.

The origin of ”cash is king” is not clear. It was used in 1988, after the global stock market crash in 1987, by Pehr G. Gyllenhammar (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pehr_G._Gyllenhammar), who at the time was Chief Executive Officer of Swedish car group Volvo.

The phrase was widely used during the global financial crisis, which started in the fall of 2008. In the recession which followed the financial crisis, the phrase was often used to describe companies which could avoid share issues or bankruptcy. ”Cash is king” is relevant also to households, i.e., to avoid foreclosures.


... Notice how privacy is NOT the issue to which this phrase is relevant. When pilots misuse terms like this, we just look dumb to those in finance and indeed those executives “leading” CX. It’s akin to bad grammar.



It was first used in the US during the Great Depression.

[donpizmeov]

“Cash is king” is a very cool saying .So is “lock up your daughters” . Although the later saying seems more appropriate when United is around.

Name changed of course to prevent him being lynched by parents .

[iflyplanes]

Unitedqbx,

Quite simply you are an idiot.

[mngmt mole]

....this thread is becoming very boring.....🙄