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View Full Version : What is it with Americans and proof of age?


captainsmiffy
6th Nov 2018, 02:59
Was sat in a restaurant in Washington and ordered a beer - which was then refused because I couldnt produce proof of age.....except that I am 55 and that this would clearly not be required. I chose to fight this asked for the manager; all he would do is reiterate the rule, no proof, no beer. Dont think that he was best chuffed when I told him that, imho, rules were for the guidance of wise men but the obediance of fools. Needless to say, I left sans beer but was able to partake a few doors down, where I was not asked to prove my age. Why is it that some establishments will blindly follow a rule and hence lose my custom whereas others will just serve the drink? Why cant these places look at the reasoning behind the rule ie to stop under-age drinkers? Why must they persecute the thirsty?

WingNut60
6th Nov 2018, 03:06
It's like wearing a hard hat in an open-cut mine, Chicken Little.
We have rules and no amount of common-sense shall be allowed to get in the way.

obgraham
6th Nov 2018, 03:31
In all likelihood the owner was dinged by state regulators after being trapped into selling to a minor. So he told his staff to “check all IDs, on pain of losing your job”.

So why should the clerk risk her job, just because you dont like the law enforcement?

tdracer
6th Nov 2018, 03:32
Blame the lawyers. In order to protect themselves and at the recommendation of their lawyers (and/or insurance), many establishments require proof of age. Period. By removing potential human error (what you'd call discretion) they are protecting themselves against potential accusations of bias/racism (you carded that black guy but not that white girl - RACIST!!!!!). There are a lot of snowflake Social Justice Warriors (SJW) out there just looking for something to be offended by - they don't have anything to complain about when you card them if you just carded the 55 year old in front of them. I've been carded well into my 50's for that reason.
I've also noticed - in some areas (usually near colleges) they card me, and make of point of making my ID visible to the security camera. I suspect they do that to discourage adults from purchasing alcohol for underage kid.s

finfly1
6th Nov 2018, 04:08
What's a 55 year old man doing running around Washington with no proof of age?

MarkerInbound
6th Nov 2018, 04:19
Where you in DC or Washington state? In DC it's the law.

§ 25-713. Retail licensee required to post current legal drinking age and notice of requirement to produce valid identification displaying proof of age. A retail licensee shall post a notice, maintained in good repair and in a place clearly visible from the point of entry to the establishment, stating: (1) The minimum age required for the purchases of an alcoholic beverage; and (2) The obligation of the patron to produce a valid identification document displaying proof of legal drinking age.

The establishment can get fined if the authorities find non-compliance. Your second venue just figured the odds of getting caught were low.

captainsmiffy
6th Nov 2018, 04:42
It was every other establishment, then, that was flouting the law and we were there for 10 days, so frequented many establishments to slake our thirst!! So why does one push a crazy rule that the others dont? It was DC btw. Do I require proof of age in the ‘land of the free’, finfly1? I can understand proof of age being required where it could be in doubt....but come on, for heavens sake, nobody would doubt my age these days!! Doesnt it just show up how stupidly ‘jobsworth’ people can become?

MarkerInbound
6th Nov 2018, 05:11
I make no judgement about law (at least not in public.) As pointed out above, they may have been recently dinged by the authorities and been gun shy.

In Texas it is legal for a minor to purchase alcohol if the purchase is part of an overcover police sting operation. They just can't consume it. That's the law:rolleyes:

krismiler
6th Nov 2018, 05:15
Australia is pretty strict as well with alcohol and cigarettes, an 18+ ID card is available to make things easier. Many night clubs now scan your ID on entry which covers proof of age and the ability to bar you or make a police report in the event of trouble.

Your problem in the first restaurant may be the result of head office rules or previous problems with underage sales where the penalties can be severe.

Try France instead where wine is a way of life and children can be served a glass if watered down.

sitigeltfel
6th Nov 2018, 07:09
Customers at UK supermarkets have been stopped at the check-outs and banned from buying alcohol if they have a child with them.

Bergerie1
6th Nov 2018, 07:31
I was in Taormina, Sicily, a few years ago - and well into my seventies. When I went to visit the ancient Greek theatre I asked at the entrance gate if they had reduced rates for Senior Citizens. The girl in the ticket booth asked if I had proof of my age. I said I didn't have any documents with me and said, "Well, just look at me." I am fairly bald and have a white beard. She took one look, giggled, and gave me a Senior's ticket. The rest of the queue burst out laughing. She smiled sweetly and common sense reigned!

A_Van
6th Nov 2018, 08:08
Was sat in a restaurant in Washington and ordered a beer - which was then refused because I couldnt produce proof of age.....except that I am 55 and that this would clearly not be required.
.....
Why is it that some establishments will blindly follow a rule and hence lose my custom whereas others will just serve the drink? Why cant these places look at the reasoning behind the rule ie to stop under-age drinkers? Why must they persecute the thirsty?

It looks like in D.C. and around they are indeed blindly follow this requirement. A few years ago, while waiting for my flight at IAD I was asked for a photo-ID at a bar while ordering a beer. I showed my passport and with a joking tone asked the lady waiter whether she also demanded an ID from a bold old man sitting in the corner who looked like an age-mate of the Dulles brothers. She did not understand the joke and replied: "Sure I did" .
To be fair, can hardly recall whether I was asked for such a proof in other (20+) states I ever visited.

Nemrytter
6th Nov 2018, 08:21
They're paranoid about the dangers of alcohol. Which is odd.

BEACH KING
6th Nov 2018, 09:10
Why are you even bothered in starting a thread on this topic?
It's the USA ffs!
Most of the world's stupid shit is invented there and disseminates to the four corners of the earth.

ExSp33db1rd
6th Nov 2018, 09:12
So why should the clerk risk her job, just because you don't like the law enforcement?

So "the Law" admits that Americans are too stupid to use commonsense. In NZ there is usually a notice that states that IF you APPEAR to be under 25, then proof of identity may be required.

I'm 84, was recently asked for I.D. when buying a 6 pack of beer in a California supermarket. I pointed out that she needed my money to pay her salary more than I needed her beer, and walked out. I have a choice. I did actually have an I.D. - as I am required to by law ( I think ? ) but it was the idiocy of it that needed teaching a lesson.

and ..... why don't stores add the local sales tax to the shelf sticker price ? I know that sales tax can vary locally, even city to city within the same state, but local shops know their local tax, and re-print the tickets almost daily, to con the shoppers into thinking that the "special" price is best, when often it isn't. I'm fed up with deciding to pop into a passing 7-Eleven, or similar, and have exactly the right change in my pocket for whatever it is that I desire, then getting to the counter and being asked for more coins for the tax. I usually refuse to split another $20 bill, and walk out. I have a choice. I'm not complaining about paying the tax ( much ! ) just the idea that they can con the public into thinking that their goods are actually cheaper than one has to pay.

And what's all this crap about I.D. anyway ? I know who I am. Do Mexicans illegally in California have to produce an I.D. when they collect the State Welfare that I hear of ? My American wife would like us to return to live in California, but I can't afford to be ill there at my age. Perhaps I should fly to Mexico City, and join the mob about to rush the border from Guatamala ( or wherever ? ) Or will I now be shot at by Trump's soldiers ?

treadigraph
6th Nov 2018, 09:49
I was in Taormina, Sicily, a few years ago - and well into my seventies. When I went to visit the ancient Greek theatre I asked at the entrance gate if they had reduced rates for Senior Citizens. The girl in the ticket booth asked if I had proof of my age. I said I didn't have any documents with me and said, "Well, just look at me." I am fairly bald and have a white beard. She took one look, giggled, and gave me a Senior's ticket. The rest of the queue burst out laughing. She smiled sweetly and common sense reigned!

Friend of mine who'd just passed 60 asked a ticket seller at a Duxford what the concession age was. "60" she replied. "Do you want to see proof?". She looked at him and said "no, it's not necessary".

ShotOne
6th Nov 2018, 09:55
If the undercurrent here is meant to highlight US idiocy, let me suggest you try finding a nice pub in UK if you have children with you. You’ll face a lottery of possible outcomes ranging from (occasionally) a warm welcome through being banished to a damp side-room to immediate ejection.

Pontius Navigator
6th Nov 2018, 10:56
ShotOne prompts a question: are American kids even allowed into a 'drinking den'? And a subsidiary question, are American kids the little angels we see on TV or the wild tearaway ankle traps we experience in UK?

ShotOne
6th Nov 2018, 12:52
Generally yes, PN but as you’ve probably gathered from preceding posts even a sniff of Dads beer a huge no-no. Re. tearaways: it’s not the kids! ...far more shouting, fighting and puking from (supposed) adults

racedo
6th Nov 2018, 13:07
What's a 55 year old man doing running around Washington with no proof of age?

There are many of them doing that........................ after today's Mid Terms many will change but they will still do the same thing with their staffers.

racedo
6th Nov 2018, 13:10
Customers at UK supermarkets have been stopped at the check-outs and banned from buying alcohol if they have a child with them.

But not a single UK supermarket has that policy, some jobsworths interpret it as that but people who do this will find that Senior management will have an advisory word.

racedo
6th Nov 2018, 13:13
Harder to buy beer in the US than it is to vote in some states it "APPEARS".

747 jock
6th Nov 2018, 13:34
Where you in DC or Washington state? In DC it's the law.

§ 25-713. Retail licensee required to post current legal drinking age and notice of requirement to produce valid identification displaying proof of age. A retail licensee shall post a notice, maintained in good repair and in a place clearly visible from the point of entry to the establishment, stating: (1) The minimum age required for the purchases of an alcoholic beverage; and (2) The obligation of the patron to produce a valid identification document displaying proof of legal drinking age.
Then you get other sections of the legislative code that differ :

§ 25–783. Production of valid identification document required; penalty.
(a) A licensee shall refuse to sell, serve, or deliver an alcoholic beverage to any person who, upon request of the licensee, fails to produce a valid identification document.

(b) A licensee or his agent or employee shall take steps reasonably necessary to ascertain whether any person to whom the licensee sells, delivers, or serves an alcoholic beverage is of legal drinking age. Any person who supplies a valid identification document showing his or her age to be the legal drinking age shall be deemed to be of legal drinking age.
(a) only states "upon request" so if the licensee decides not to request the ID and uses another method to ascertain age, such as mentioned in (b) then surely, looking at a 55 year old you would be clearly be able to see that they are not under 21 years of age so I would have thought this would be enough of a reasonable step in such a case.

cavortingcheetah
6th Nov 2018, 14:09
You should have been in the States when we had draft cards. That was the only accepted piece of ID and it had no photograph. Nothing else, not even a passport would cut it for satisfactory bar ID purposes at Idlewild in those days.

Mac the Knife
6th Nov 2018, 14:45
Less fuss to buy a gun than a beer - so buy one and off the licencee...

Mac

[I'm sure you'll be able to think of a acceptable reason like, "S/He tried to touch my junk!"]

SpringHeeledJack
6th Nov 2018, 15:31
America has always been very litigious, they don't want to risk 'it' and just easier to do a blanket "no, until you prove it!". As a UK example, my cable company requires a 4-digit code to play any pre-recorded content that was recorded after a certain time of night (8 or 9pm) regardless of whether it's a horror slasher movie, or a toddler's cartoon. Gets on my nerves, but the company are just covering themselves from being sued for possibly exposing minors to unsuitable content. Strangely, it's part of an American company now ;-)

West Coast
6th Nov 2018, 15:38
Was sat in a restaurant in Washington and ordered a beer - which was then refused because I couldnt produce proof of age.....except that I am 55 and that this would clearly not be required. I chose to fight this asked for the manager; all he would do is reiterate the rule, no proof, no beer. Dont think that he was best chuffed when I told him that, imho, rules were for the guidance of wise men but the obediance of fools. Needless to say, I left sans beer but was able to partake a few doors down, where I was not asked to prove my age. Why is it that some establishments will blindly follow a rule and hence lose my custom whereas others will just serve the drink? Why cant these places look at the reasoning behind the rule ie to stop under-age drinkers? Why must they persecute the thirsty?

Good of you to visit a foreign land and make a scene over not getting a beer.

MarkerInbound
6th Nov 2018, 15:54
747 Jock - The law in most cases is written for the lowest common denominator. Where do you draw the line at reasonable? It's easier to just ask everyone. 25-783(a) even says the licensee can not sell to anyone who does not provide ID. It doesn't say does not produce ID to verify age. At an establishment where I'm fairly well know I was recently asked for ID by a manager as I entered. I'm about 3x the legal age and he's probably know me for 21 years. Not any "Hi, how are you" but "Sir, do you have some ID?" I thought that was odd as I dug out my DL. Then he moved to the herd of youths behind me and ask them for ID. Sure enough, at least one didn't have any so they left. I think he was hoping they'd turn and leave when they saw the old guy getting carded.


Mac - Regardless of what you may have heard it is harder to buy a firearm from a licensed dealer than buy a drink from a licensed establishment. It is easier to buy a gun out of the trunk (boot) of a car at the individual level. I have seen trunks filled with ice and cases of beer but it becomes a mess.

racedo
6th Nov 2018, 15:54
Good of you to visit a foreign land and make a scene over not getting a beer.


Should have seen the scene when he couldn't buy a gun and walk down downtown Baltimore like it was a Warzone......................... oh wait it is.

cavortingcheetah
6th Nov 2018, 15:56
On the other hand, had you told them that you were a Brit Afghan Vet visiting the US looking for a Yank you'd met under harsh and hostile turbaned conditions, a lie perhaps but illustration will suffice, you'd probably have been bought a beer by every table in the house.
In British equivalence, to quote a favourite EU term, I suspect the same line of argument would have seen you rubbished out of the place.

captainsmiffy
6th Nov 2018, 17:12
Hardly a scene, westcoast....a gentlemany exchange of views, which were poles apart! Now dont even get me started on the TSA when we left �� think that would make for a thread all of its own.

Crabman
6th Nov 2018, 17:47
Then you get other sections of the legislative code that differ :


(a) only states "upon request" so if the licensee decides not to request the ID and uses another method to ascertain age, such as mentioned in (b) then surely, looking at a 55 year old you would be clearly be able to see that they are not under 21 years of age so I would have thought this would be enough of a reasonable step in such a case.

I used to live in DC for years (and still visit there often). In the last 30 years I can't recall ever being asked to prove my age (other than at sporting venues, where it is common to "card" everyone).

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Nov 2018, 17:49
If the undercurrent here is meant to highlight US idiocy, let me suggest you try finding a nice pub in UK if you have children with you. You’ll face a lottery of possible outcomes ranging from (occasionally) a warm welcome through being banished to a damp side-room to immediate ejection.
There are all sorts of pitfalls when looking for a pub in the UK. Another one might be that you want to go out for a nice quiet drink and end up in a room full of screaming toddlers. A Brit can usually tell what sort of pub it is from looking at the outside, but I'm sure it's much harder for people from different cultures, particularly on their first visit.

Mr Optimistic
6th Nov 2018, 19:41
I was asked for proof of age when I was 59 in Alabama. Seemed pointless but if that's the rule.....

RHSandLovingIt
6th Nov 2018, 20:33
On a visit to the US some 7 or 8 years ago... I was sitting in the airport bar in LAX enjoying a nice craft beer, after being asked for ID, feeling pretty good and thinking to myself that maybe the 12 hour flight had done wonders for my appearance or the beer was maybe some sort of "elixir of youth"... as I hadn't been asked for ID for something close to 15 years! :}

The nice lady behind the bar then ID'ed a guy who looked older than my grandfather... it was at this point that I finally noticed the giant 1m x 1m sign on the wall behind the bar that said "We ID Everybody". :hmm:

Following this, a group of university students came in... she got about halfway through asking for ID... "Can I see som...." and in the blink of an eye, like old western gunslingers, the 4 of them had their wallets out and drivers licences on display...

Later on that visit, my friend introduced me to a friend of hers who was a 'server' (apparently this was the techincal name used, at least in Georgia)... At one point, I asked why a lot of American establishments are so hot on checking ID... she informed me that as a 'server', she could be individually fined something like $10,000 for serving alcohol to a minor! :eek:

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Nov 2018, 20:39
At one point, I asked why a lot of American establishments are so hot on checking ID... she informed me that as a 'server', she could be individually fined something like $10,000 for serving alcohol to a minor! :eek:
Yeahbut you don't need ID for that, you need evidence of age. For example a UK credit card - if you've got one you're at least 18, job done.

Pontius Navigator
6th Nov 2018, 20:49
GTW, anyone can have a credit card but prove it is yours without ID.

In one of my jobs I am required to check a photo ID and match with a signature. At least to get a drink you don't have to sign for it - unless you pay by credit card or on a cruise ship.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Nov 2018, 21:06
GTW, anyone can have a credit card but prove it is yours without ID.
No, anybody can't have a UK credit card, you have to be 18. I can prove it's mine by being able to reproduce the signature or by knowing the PIN, eg when I use it to pay for the drinks I'm trying to buy.

What I am not going to do is carry my passport around when I'm not passing any ports (the clue is in the name, eh?) - the consequences of losing it (dropping, leaving on counter or pub table[+], falling out of pocket, pickpockets, ect ect) would be vastly more hassle than I can be arsed with.

And I don't have anything other than my passport which has both my photo and my age on it[%] - who does? [#]

[+] I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that this was the leading cause of young women having to buy replacement passports - taken it to pub to prove age but then lost it whilst drunk - but I can't find a reference for that now.

[%] Actually that might not be entirely true - somewhere I might still have a long-since-expired Cambridge University Library card. I don't suppose it has my DoB on it, but the fact that it was issued in 1990 is evidence that I'm at least 28 years old. If, of course, you believe that I match the rather younger photo.

[#] (other than denizens of police states who are required to carry ID cards at all times to avoid arrest)

Hydromet
6th Nov 2018, 21:25
Was staying at a hotel once where a boys' high school basketball team was also staying. We were all in the guests' lounge and as I was getting a drink, one of the mothers accompanying the team, in track suit like the boys, aged probably early 40s, short hair, fit looking, also ordered an alcoholic drink. When the barman asked for evidence that she was over 18, she almost kissed him.

WingNut60
6th Nov 2018, 21:40
In Oz there is no requirement for an Oz citizen to carry identifying documents of any kind in public, at all, ever.
While it may vary by state, in West Oz there is no absolute requirement to carry a drivers licence, at all, either.
It is acceptable to produce your drivers license within a "reasonable time" at a cop shop, if requested to do so and if you can not produce it immediately.
That used to be taken as two days, probably still is.

Proof of age for liquor purchases can be by way of a drivers license, passport OR a govt issued photo ID card available for those lucky people who keep being asked for ID even though they are 73 years old.

I have NEVER been asked for proof of age, and do not expect that I ever will.
At least not while I do not frequent discos and raves where, in the spirit of equanimity, staff may feel obliged to ask everyone for proof of age.
In a pub? It ain't gonna happen.
The offense, for the liquor vendor, is selling to an under-aged person, not for failing to check ID,
If they are confident that you are over 18 YO then they are not going to ask for ID.

A simple case of common-sense prevailing, I believe.

izod tester
6th Nov 2018, 21:48
“And I don't have anything other than my passport which has both my photo and my age on it[%] - who does? [#]”

A UK driving license has both your photo and your date of birth.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Nov 2018, 22:06
A UK driving license has both your photo and your date of birth.
Mine doesn't.

CoodaShooda
6th Nov 2018, 22:11
Not quite Wingnut

in the Socialist Republic of the Northern Territory, it is now an offence to be in control of a motor vehicle without carrying your license on your person. I think the fine is around $300 and 3 demerit points.

(Its ts obviously having an effect on road safety. Our road toll this year stands at 47 compared to 23 at the same time last year. )

But that's ok, as you also need to have photo ID to buy takeaway liquor. Each retailer has a gizmo that scans the ID and reports on whether or not you are on the Banned Drinkers Register. Too bad if you're a tourist without a compatible form of ID. You go thirsty.

Licensed premises also require ID to be produced.

Of course it hasn't stopped the increase in alcohol fuelled crime and violence.

So, to buy a bottle of wine at the local club, I have to present my club membership card, my drivers license and, finally, my debit card.

izod tester
6th Nov 2018, 22:16
The driving license number is comprised of the first 5 letters of your surname followed by the decade number of your birth the 2 numbers of your birth month followed by 2 numbers which are your birth day.Finally there is the year within the decade followed by 2 initials and then some more numbers/letters which I do not know how they are derived. In my case, my birthday Is 22 June 1947 and the relevant part of my driving license number is 406227.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Nov 2018, 22:42
The driving license number is comprised of the first 5 letters of your surname followed by the decade number of your birth the 2 numbers of your birth month followed by 2 numbers which are your birth day.Finally there is the year within the decade followed by 2 initials and then some more numbers/letters which I do not know how they are derived. In my case, my birthday Is 22 June 1947 and the relevant part of my driving license number is 406227.
Yes, I do know that my driving licence has my DoB on it. What it doesn't have is a photo.

beamer
6th Nov 2018, 22:49
Not just the 'land of the free and home of the brave' ( chuckle ). I went into Morrisons with my son for some groceries to include a bottle of wine. The woman at check out asked him for proof of age. Now this is all well and good but the often quoted age profile of 25 and under is designed to stop a sixteen year old who happens to look older from buying alcohol or whatever else requires the purchaser to be eighteen or more; it is in effect a huge buffer zone of age. Now my son at the time was well over thirty. I have nothing against the asian lady on checkout who was just obeying orders but I did ask to see her manager who must have been all of twenty one himself and it was really was like talking to a child without the ability to use the priceless commodity of common sense. Just following orders you understand and yes, he had clearly done the 'defensive conversation with customers course' in the recent past. So I had to buy the wine and the second I received the receipt took great pleasure in giving it to my lad as a gift. So its not just the good old USA which by the way I have visited for business and pleasure on countless occasions and never been asked for proof of age. I did get stuck in no mans land between the USA and Canada once but thats another story...........

longer ron
6th Nov 2018, 22:52
Minimum age for purchasing alcohol in the usa is 21 - so being over 18 does not necessarily help LOL
.
Don't bother to tell Gertie to get a photo driving licence btw - Gertie would obviously rather spend a couple of hours with the local police hunks than actually have some useable ID - I think he/she just enjoyes the attention (or is it the uniform ?)

k3k3
6th Nov 2018, 22:59
Gertrude, you have to be over 18 to have a credit card account, you can have a card on somebody else's account at a younger age. My daughter had a card in her name on my account from when she was 15, she was at boarding school in the UK and I was overseas.

flash8
6th Nov 2018, 23:01
So I had to buy the wine and the second I received the receipt took great pleasure in giving it to my lad as a gift.Have read a few times of this same situation, but when the "adult" took over to buy they then refused to sell.... allegedly because it was for the "child" (well, under 25) and therefore couldn't allow the sale to go ahead :confused:

On another note, I used to see kids drinking in the street here in Russia, but over the last decade that seems to have died out, and alcohol polices have become more stringent for youngsters (may be wrong, just my observation) - can only be a good thing - might be a little soft in the head but I did worry a little that they were OK.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Nov 2018, 23:19
Gertrude, you have to be over 18 to have a credit card account, you can have a card on somebody else's account at a younger age. My daughter had a card in her name on my account from when she was 15, she was at boarding school in the UK and I was overseas.
Ah well, it's a wasted day in which you don't learn something new!

Tankertrashnav
7th Nov 2018, 00:27
I remember on my first trip to France aged 16 the boy who I was staying with was lecturing me one day about how France was the land of liberte (insert your own acute accent) and how the French valued being free citizens, unlike we poor Brits still groaning under the yoke of an oppressive monarchy. I pricked his balloon when we were talking about ID cards, and he just couldn't believe that we didn't have them.

But how do you prove your identity if a policeman asks you?
"We don't have to - none of his business"!

I admit that in many situations it is very convenient to be able to prove your ID, but I still think it's nice that in this country (and I believe in the US) that it is still a personal choice - unless you want a drink, of course!.

WingNut60
7th Nov 2018, 00:40
..........But how do you prove your identity if a policeman asks you?
"We don't have to - none of his business"! .......
Similar in Oz, however you are required to advise your identity to a policeman when requested but no obligation to prove it by way of an ID card, or whatever.

Also, unlike France and many other countries, hotel check-in in Oz is not linked directly to state security for tracing.
Provided you are paying with cash, there is no legal obligation to provide anyone with your identity, including hoteliers.

flash8
7th Nov 2018, 01:18
Similar in Oz, however you are required to advise your identity to a policeman when requested but no obligation to prove it by way of an ID card, or whatever.There used to be two forms of ID in Russia... at least in the old days... a Passport with current valid City registration.. or a crisp $100 bill (if an expat, locals less).... one takes ones pick.... (Nowadays cleaned up a lot.... and only a Passport will do).

ExSp33db1rd
7th Nov 2018, 01:19
..........fined something like $10,000 for serving alcohol to a minor!

but define Minor .... do I LOOK like a minor ?

I don't suppose it has my DoB on it

I refuse to carry my passport around for the same reasons, loss, theft, etc. but I used to carry my Canadian driving licence, which didn't actually show my D.o.B. but did state my age, 21-1/2 as properly certified by the butcher of the town of Exeter, north of London, Ont. who had issued it ! As a young F/O I was once with the crew in a USA Bar, the barkeeper had topped all four bottles but not handed them over, when he asked me for I.D. Initially I had forgotten that I had that licence and said I doubted that I could. The Captain said, but you have opened them all, what are you going to do if he can't prove his age ? Pour them down the sink, said the barkeeper, cheaper than paying the fine. Fortunately he accepted my 21 1/2 age at the time of the - non photo bearing - issue of the licence, even tho' I was then 28!

In a similar situation in later years, I was the Captain ordering the beer, and my F/O looked, possibly, marginally below age, so those of us clearly over 21 were equally refused service because one of our group couldn't prove his age. We walked out and found a more user-friendly bar. What were we saying about the Americans and commonsense ?

Hydromet
7th Nov 2018, 01:32
I have vague recollections of a line in a Robert Rouark novel, about a sign in an airforce bar that said something along the lines of "Colonels under the age of 21 will not be served".

West Coast
7th Nov 2018, 03:23
but define Minor .... do I LOOK like a minor ?



I refuse to carry my passport around for the same reasons, loss, theft, etc. but I used to carry my Canadian driving licence, which didn't actually show my D.o.B. but did state my age, 21-1/2 as properly certified by the butcher of the town of Exeter, north of London, Ont. who had issued it ! As a young F/O I was once with the crew in a USA Bar, the barkeeper had topped all four bottles but not handed them over, when he asked me for I.D. Initially I had forgotten that I had that licence and said I doubted that I could. The Captain said, but you have opened them all, what are you going to do if he can't prove his age ? Pour them down the sink, said the barkeeper, cheaper than paying the fine. Fortunately he accepted my 21 1/2 age at the time of the - non photo bearing - issue of the licence, even tho' I was then 28!

In a similar situation in later years, I was the Captain ordering the beer, and my F/O looked, possibly, marginally below age, so those of us clearly over 21 were equally refused service because one of our group couldn't prove his age. We walked out and found a more user-friendly bar. What were we saying about the Americans and commonsense ?

This is the second thread you’ve whined about this, you’re an elder gent now, think you’d have moved on. Moved on and accepted that other nations do things differently.

You would think 50+ years removed that you’d have forgotten about a beer or two. Beers you could have had if you had accepted you were in a different nation and accepted the differences.

India Four Two
7th Nov 2018, 05:45
I think he/she

longer ron,

Having met GTW, I can assure you that you would not be in doubt about Gertie's gender or age! ;)

ExSp33db1rd
7th Nov 2018, 07:21
.........accepted you were in a different nation and accepted the differences.

I suppose it all started to go wrong circa. 1777 ? No problem up until then.

I guess "When in Rome ...." ? fits the bill. Which reminds me, queuing to check in at a Rome hotel one day, the American, Female,Tourist ahead of me said " Is the water fit to drink in the room " the Concierge replied " Madam, Rome has enjoyed piped water for over 2,000 years." Touche ! ( although I admit that it didn't actually answer the question.)

Works both ways, our local newspaper once published a letter from an outraged American Tourist, complaining that New Zealand required cars to drive on the left, couldn't we change it to accommodate our visitors, and whilst we were at it change the electric voltage to 110 volts, as his wife couldn't use the hair-dryer that she was lugging around with her. My reply was published, to the effect that 300,000 plus Americans didn't change to driving on the left to accommodate me when I visited his Country, so WTF ( or words to that effect ) should we change to accommodate him ? It received lots of "Likes" !!

Nowt so queer as folk ( Yorkshire truism )

uffington sb
7th Nov 2018, 07:37
West Coast.

Yes other nations do thing differently, in the UK we use the apostrophe.

Pontius Navigator
7th Nov 2018, 07:58
Mine doesn't.
GTW, you are being obtuse. Under 18s can show a credit card if that is needed as proof of age. Easy enough to bluff. Who signs anything nowadays? Indeed you don't need a pin either with contactless.

It is also not uncommon to pool cards and PIN. OK Megan Murphy might not get away with John Thomas's card but otherwise easily done.

Your answer is like the German when asked what happens if you lose your driving licence - you cannot drive.

longer ron
7th Nov 2018, 09:01
longer ron,

Having met GTW, I can assure you that you would not be in doubt about Gertie's gender or age! ;)

:):):)
Hey I was just being Gender Inclusive/PC I4T

Rgds LR

longer ron
7th Nov 2018, 09:07
I refuse to carry my passport around for the same reasons, loss, theft, etc.

Well I guess we all perceive 'risk' in different was LOL - Passports etc must be soooooo much safer in a Hotel/B+B :) - when I am on holiday I always keep our Passports either in the buttoned down/zipped cargo pockets or buttoned down shirt patch pockets (whichever is being worn at the time) - as I perceive that as being safer than leaving them in a hotel room. Could leave em in the hotel safe I spose but then there is the risk of forgetting them ;).When on holiday we use our photo driving licence as our primary ID for hotel checking in etc - our passports staying safely in secure pockets at all times.

chuks
7th Nov 2018, 09:15
This reminds me of a late afternoon in northern Vermont.

Three of us went across the road from our garage in South Burlington to Joe Berry's Hot Spot, a sort of roadhouse dive where the waitresses wore tasseled bikini tops and the customers were exclusively working-class. (Problem was, the waitresses were usually not cute little UVM coeds, the sort of women you really wanted to see wearing such garb, but middle-aged housewives just trying to make a buck.)

It was me in my early twenties, Larry Peavy in his thirties, and Frenchy Boudreau who did not look a day over seventeen, when we had a round of beer with no questions asked since the joint was jumping.

Our waitress came over after about five minutes, tassels swinging, to say "You boys look like you are having fun. Would you like more beer?"

"Yes, ma'am," I replied, "It's Frenchy's sixteenth birthday so we thought we would buy him some beer."

The poor waitress plotzed, of course. Job gone, liquor license gone ... disaster! That was what she saw from my joke. Then we all had to show ID.

Ancient Mariner
7th Nov 2018, 09:39
Well I guess we all perceive 'risk' in different was LOL - Passports etc must be soooooo much safer in a Hotel/B+B :) - when I am on holiday I always keep our Passports either in the buttoned down/zipped cargo pockets or buttoned down shirt patch pockets (whichever is being worn at the time) - as I perceive that as being safer than leaving them in a hotel room. Could leave em in the hotel safe I spose but then there is the risk of forgetting them ;).When on holiday we use our photo driving licence as our primary ID for hotel checking in etc - our passports staying safely in secure pockets at all times.
There are countries were you would not get into a hotel room without a passport, and some even when you have. Overstayed my visa by 30 days in China, refused access to hotel. An electric razor and some sweet talk by my interpretor at the local police station took care of that.
Per

longer ron
7th Nov 2018, 09:48
There are countries were you would not get into a hotel room without a passport, and some even when you have.


Absolutely Per - I was just referring to our USA vacations,we have fitted in quite a few over the last 3 years,my partner is still working so we are restricted to short(ish) vacations at the moment.

Ancient Mariner
7th Nov 2018, 11:29
Absolutely Per - I was just referring to our USA vacations,we have fitted in quite a few over the last 3 years,my partner is still working so we are restricted to short(ish) vacations at the moment.
I suspected as much. ;)
Per

TURIN
7th Nov 2018, 11:39
Customers at UK supermarkets have been stopped at the check-outs and banned from buying alcohol if they have a child with them.
Urban myth.

747 jock
7th Nov 2018, 12:42
Customers at UK supermarkets have been stopped at the check-outs and banned from buying alcohol if they have a child with them.

Urban myth.
Are you saying that all of these reports have been fabricated:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/take-note-supermarkets-we-already-have-laws-in-place-concerning-alcohol-and-children-8994995.html

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/dec/09/asda-staff-wont-sell-alcohol-parents-children-supermarket

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/can-supermarkets-refuse-serve-customers-12563101

https://www.mirror.co.uk/incoming/what-your-rights-buying-alcohol-9746267

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-566340/Tesco-bans-parents-buying-alcohol-OWN-children.html

BBC - X-Ray: Supermarket alcohol and underage drinking (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/x-ray/2010/07/supermarket-alcohol-underage-drinking.shtml)

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/oct/11/morrisons-wine-ban-mother

West Coast
7th Nov 2018, 15:32
I suppose it all started to go wrong circa. 1777 ? No problem up until then.

I guess "When in Rome ...." ? fits the bill. Which reminds me, queuing to check in at a Rome hotel one day, the American, Female,Tourist ahead of me said " Is the water fit to drink in the room " the Concierge replied " Madam, Rome has enjoyed piped water for over 2,000 years." Touche ! ( although I admit that it didn't actually answer the question.)

Works both ways, our local newspaper once published a letter from an outraged American Tourist, complaining that New Zealand required cars to drive on the left, couldn't we change it to accommodate our visitors, and whilst we were at it change the electric voltage to 110 volts, as his wife couldn't use the hair-dryer that she was lugging around with her. My reply was published, to the effect that 300,000 plus Americans didn't change to driving on the left to accommodate me when I visited his Country, so WTF ( or words to that effect ) should we change to accommodate him ? It received lots of "Likes" !!

Nowt so queer as folk ( Yorkshire truism )

If pointing out that others also make poor ambassadors for their nation while abroad is cleaning to your soul, have at it.

racedo
7th Nov 2018, 16:54
Mine doesn't.

Yeah but you got your license from the man walking with the red flag in front....

ExSp33db1rd
8th Nov 2018, 01:00
Longer Ron ... Yes, I have the cargo pants, cargo shirt, a retractable combination lockable stainless steel wire thing to briefly secure my cabin bag to the trolley whilst my back is turned putting the checked suitcase on to the scales etc. etc. But "stuff" does still happen, on top of which .... I once left my briefcase, closed but unlocked on an adjacent airport counter whilst I walked outside to say goodbye to my now wife, who wasn't travelling and we waited for her taxi. Totally forgot, had it been today I guess it would have been scooped up and delivered to the bomb squad ! Passport, Driving licence(s) Flying licence(s) Logbooks, Cheque book(s) Credit cards - my whole life. When I remembered where I had left it I almost passed out. Lucky ? you should say so, I try to take no chances now. I also name everything, and you would be amazed at what I have had returned when I have "lost" it, sometimes before I have even missed it myself. Managed to engrave my phone number on a pair of half-moon reading glasses that I didn't realise had fallen out of my pocket getting out of the car one night. Thought I had put them down somewhere, but someone noticed them lying in the gutter and called me, then posted them back to me. One's faith in Human Nature is occasionally restored.

reynoldsno1
8th Nov 2018, 01:38
On a visit to Fisherman's Wharf we booked some activities, and I was asked if I was a 'senior citizen'. At the time I was 63 - so i said I wasn't considered so in my own country. The young lady told me that was close enough, and gave me and mrsr1 discounts anyway.

evansb
8th Nov 2018, 02:01
Just because the water has been flowing in Rome's hotels for a thousand years doesn't mean it isn't contaminated.

Ultimately, asking for and producing I.D. by a waitress is no big deal. Even failing to produce I.D. for a waitress is no big deal. Just go to another establishment. You want serious consequences for failing to produce I.D.? I will give you a list of 87 nations, (none of which are in the G-8), where there is no due process of civil law, and you are guilty before being proven innocent.

Troll-like thread title in the first place, dont'cha think? Or dont'cha...?

ExSp33db1rd
8th Nov 2018, 07:56
Just because the water has been flowing in Rome's hotels for a thousand years doesn't mean it isn't contaminated.

Totally agree, I did note that the answer didn't actually answer the question.

Pontius Navigator
8th Nov 2018, 08:15
Late one night driving home I stopped at a dark layby in the back of beyond. Dropped my wristwatch - the metal strap was uncomfortable and I have taken it off. An hour or so later realised what I had done. Rang what I thought was the nearest police station and described where I thought I had lost it. Two days later it arrived in the post - I sent a cheque to their widows & orphans fund.

Wife left here prescription in a mini bus in Antiqua. I emailed the owner. He gave me the billing price and we soon had them back.

Like ExSpdBrd I left my PDA and holiday cash in the security tray at Gatwick. My credit card safeguard company contacted Gatwick when I rang them from Barbados - nowt. Back home, last chance, I rang Gatwick lost property. Small recovery charge but everything returned.

Lost a pair of excellent NBC Super Dark sunglasses at work. Knew exactly where and when - never saw them again.

Lost a pair of prescription sunglasses in Cyprus. A few minutes later returned to where I knew they must be - nothing. Went to the ticket office - nothing. Eyeballed everyone there and leaving - never saw them again.

The expensive stuff was recovered. Strange.
​​

Pontius Navigator
8th Nov 2018, 08:17
Totally agree, I did note that the answer didn't actually answer the question.
And of course the question was absolutely necessary as water in many places in Europe is not potable and 2,000 year old lead pipes!

Mind you at school with hundred plus year old lead pipes we did an analysis of the tap water for mineral content - absolutely no trace of any elements.

captainsmiffy
8th Nov 2018, 17:07
‘Troll-like thread title’? More an observation on lifes absurdities...never been called a troll before, is that like a badge of honour on the internet?

izod tester
8th Nov 2018, 17:16
Average life expectancy of Romans living in Rome was some 20 years less than those living in Naples. In Naples the hard water formed an impervious calcium barrier between the lead and the water. Rome had soft water.

packapoo
8th Nov 2018, 21:19
I used to work as Duty Manager in a liquor store. Got all the good shifts - the late night closings when all the drinkers were out and about.....
Quite often when some fool, wide of mouth and big-noting wandered in to purchase I'd ask for ID even tho' clearly it wasn't needed.
Once asked for, it had to be produced. No backing down. Kept the shifts interesting....

Mr Optimistic
8th Nov 2018, 21:37
And there's me thinking it was the forerunner to Scottish Widows that first systemised life expectancy data. Good old Romans, and before statistics were invented too. You sure of this it?

izod tester
9th Nov 2018, 15:57
I don't think the Romans themselves quantified the life expectancy. I think the analysis of roman era skeletons by archeologists produced that data. I learnt it from an italian archeologist during a tour at AFSOUTH in Naples.

UPP
10th Nov 2018, 11:07
Mine doesn't.

Neither does mine. Young 'ens, eh?!
I assume you still have the old pink paper one, like me?

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Nov 2018, 11:23
I assume you still have the old pink paper one, like me?
For some reason I always think of it as green, not pink. But that's the colour of the ink, not the paper.