Brisbane Runway Designator Change

[spondonicle]

We all know that in a couple of days 01 will be 01R and 19 will be 19L. The new runway is due for a 2020 completion. Seems interesting that Airservices and BAC would implement a major change 2 years in advance. SMC frequencies are split up, too. Can anyone shed light on the reason for early changes? I know safety and ATC training is a major factor.

[Mafortion]

Same reason NZAA (Auckland) has a 05R/23L, even though they only have one runway... two parallel similar length/width pieces of tarmac could create confusion.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

The RWY designator change is definitely because of the chance of confusion as the new Western RWY takes form. The SMC split? Not too sure of the advantages of this one at the moment. Where the division will be will still leave most of the radio chatter on the northern "domestic" frequency, even more so when the new RWY is commissioned (unless there is a further split planned?) What is left on SMC-South won't be much. Wonder if the same controller will work both frequencies? Can't see that being much fun on a busy day!

[wishiwasupthere]

The SMC split is at an interesting location just north of A7, which is a common place for nearly all domestic aircraft to do an intersection departure. The boundary between the two SMCs is right about where you’d switch over to tower previously. Now you’d switch over to SMC-S long enough to check in, then go straight to tower anyway. Seems kinda pointless.

[neville_nobody]

I thought the same thing. Why would you make the Freq Change North of A7? My only guess is that A7 departures by-pass Southern Ground and go direct to the tower.

It will be another ridiculous procedure if the northern ground tells you to hold short A7 then you have to call southern ground to get cleared to the holding point to then call tower. Brought to you by the 'descend via STAR' committee

[OK4Wire]

I would have thought they would take this opportunity to change to 02/20?

[Seaeagle109]

OK4Wire,

IMHO, that won't happen; as far as I know there are no 02/20 or 13/31 runways in Oz so that there can be no confusion if you reverse the numbers. They might change the designations to 03/21 eventually when there's a change past 016/196m too, I don't know 021/201 at some future date.

Yes, I know it's reasonably common internationally but there's also been confusion at times with crews and ATC speaking a second language; I've experienced it myself whilst operating internationally and having ATC reverse the runway designation between radio calls. Not fun when the work load is getting up.

[Petropavlovsk]

Not so........ Seaeagle109

Moorabbin has 13/31 for 30 plus years....
Check again for 02/20 ....

[Seaeagle109]

Petro,

Well, I stand corrected, then again I've actually never flown out of Moorabbin, so I guess after 40 years I can still learn something new. It was explained to me by someone, either Airservices or DOT/ CASA years ago, that the reason that the runway designation doesn't always match the magnetic heading on 02/20 & 13/31 runways was so that there couldn't be confusion.

Re: 02/20 are there any as I can't recall any at a licensed airport. Then again as I haven't been to every airport or strip in Oz, there's quite likely to be.

[spondonicle]

OK4Wire,

IMHO, that won't happen; as far as I know there are no 02/20 or 13/31 runways in Oz so that there can be no confusion if you reverse the numbers.

The revered Pittsworth has 13/31. Ideal for confusing PPL candidates.

[dartman2]

NZAA uses a L and R designation because it occasionally uses the taxiway as a runway (due WIP etc).

[Capn Bloggs]

Moorabbin has 13/31 for 30 plus years....
Yes but Moorabbin isn't a real airport, is it? Hat, coat...

[Global Aviator]

Yes but Moorabbin isn't a real airport, is it? Hat, coat...

Hangon it has a DFS so it is a real airport!

Certainly an airport where you can still have real fun flying!

[OK4Wire]

IMHO, that won't happen; as far as I know there are no 02/20 or 13/31 runways in Oz so that there can be no confusion if you reverse the numbers.

Thanks, sea eagle - I didn't know that. Luckily we didn't confused at Kai Tak..

(great anti-ship missile, BTW)

[Biggles_in_Oz]

... It was explained to me by someone, either Airservices or DOT/ CASA years ago, that the reason that the runway designation doesn't always match the magnetic heading on 02/20 & 13/31 runways was so that there couldn't be confusion.

Re: 02/20 are there any as I can't recall any at a licensed airport. Then again as I haven't been to every airport or strip in Oz, there's quite likely to be.
The November 2018 ERSA has
10x 02/20 runways (3 registered, Leigh Creek, Narracoote & Tibbooburra) and
20x 13/31 runways (13 registered, eg Ayers Rock, Warnambool, ...)

[Derfred]

Doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Most incidents/accidents include simple human factors.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

YPGV 13/31 since approx 1944

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

I believe now it will be a separate ground controller during busy times. There will also be a third SMC frequency established for western ops when the new RWY nears completion.

[601]

13/31 runways
Brisbane had those runway for yonks.

[malroy]

Found this through the BAC site:
https://v2.communityanalytics.com.au/bac/bnr

Has the flight paths for the new runway.

[Tinstaafl]

I seem to recall that a parallel runway was always a consideration in the original design of the new Brissy airport. That being the case why did they waste the $ on the cross runway?

[spondonicle]

It is a pretty old airport really, I'd say that the single runway catered for the lower traffic volumes of the time, with land set 'aside' for future expansion when traffic density dictated it. Haven't done too much research but my guess is the cross strip was a compromise between the airport budget and the convenience of having two runways capable of simultaneous ops. Mind you, the 14/32 has done it's fair share of work. Nothing like a little bit of converging traffic management in peak times.