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Private jet
5th Nov 2018, 21:32
The real "snowflakes"? What does the "Committee" here think about that?

maggot
5th Nov 2018, 21:34
Ah the spoon fed gen that's keeping the spoon

RedhillPhil
5th Nov 2018, 22:42
Born in 1950. Snowflake - moi? I think not.

Hempy
5th Nov 2018, 23:14
https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/559700-baby-boomers-worst-generation-ever.html

West Coast
6th Nov 2018, 00:49
Gen X here, boomers ain't bad when compared to millennials.

Tankertrashnav
6th Nov 2018, 00:53
Funny how the definition of "baby boomer generation" has shifted - now it seems to include anyone born up to say 1960. The original definition was meant to describe those who were born 9 months after, as the saying went, the men in the military came home from the war and went straight to bed. Born on the 1st January 1947 I pretty well fit into that category. Maybe a little late but my dad was probably a little tired after 4 years continuous service overseas so, perhaps he needed a little rest first!

Hydromet
6th Nov 2018, 01:29
The original definition was meant to describe those who were born 9 months after, as the saying went, the men in the military came home from the war and went straight to bed. Or, as they also said, "When we came home, the second bang was the door closing."

Lonewolf_50
6th Nov 2018, 01:49
The real "snowflakes"? A goodly number of the Baby Boom generation in the US got to fight in Viet Nam.
So no, not snowflakes.

KelvinD
6th Nov 2018, 08:59
Similar to TTNav, my Dad was released from the Navy in June 1946, married mum in July and I was produced the following July 1947. While on the subject; I was watching a TV documentary about WW1 and it dawned on me that I was born just short of 29 years after that had ended. For the first time, I suddenly felt old!
As for 'Snowflakes', I have no time for them and am quite comfortable being a grumpy old man.

chevvron
6th Nov 2018, 09:46
My dad was I/C an RAOC depot at Jabalpur until late '47 and I was born Sep '48.
I'm far from being a snowflake, just grumpy like KelvinD and totally bored with this retirement lark.

cattletruck
6th Nov 2018, 09:46
Perhaps the original snowflakes are confusing the issue with dandruff.

Eric Janson
6th Nov 2018, 12:17
I prefer the term 'NPCs' - a far more accurate term than 'Snowflakes' imho.

Krystal n chips
6th Nov 2018, 12:21
Not often I would agree with the derogatory term " snowflake " but, sometimes, it does seem apt ......as demonstrated by these charmless and petulant examples who would possibly have preferred to travel over a cracked rail.... with a derailment to follow ......had not some more thoughtful individuals put their safety first.....this seemingly having escaped their notice ........

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-46096385

Pontius Navigator
6th Nov 2018, 12:26
My grandfather, a Catholic, served in the Indian Army. He would go on regular detachment up country up to 9 months at a time and also Calcutta to Dehli. My mother and her siblings were in synch with his movements. Nice if you can manage but he was never home while she was pregnant.

My father was sunk in the Far East in 1942, made it home by summer '42 and I arrived in Apr 43. I was 2 1/2 went he was posted to Far East again on a stores ship and I never really knew him until he came home in mid -47.

G-CPTN
6th Nov 2018, 12:41
Although I assumed that I was a 'boomer' - actually I am not, having been born in 1944.
My father didn't 'go to war' as he served in the fire service on Tyneside - where he was living.
His brothers were shipyard workers - apart from his youngest brother who was in the merchant navy.

VP959
6th Nov 2018, 12:58
Every generation has a different set of challenges to overcome and a different range of opportunities available, so comparing a generation born 60 to 70 years ago with one born 20 to 30 years ago is inevitably going to highlight some differences, the key is to balance off perceived advantages against perceived disadvantages.

My generation had the advantage of grants being available towards a university education, for example, but the flip side was that only a very small percentage of us ever went to university, as there just weren't many places available. In my school it was less than 1% of school leavers who went on to university, for example. As a child I grew up during rationing, and had to endure nasty stuff like cod liver oil, because the government was concerned at the effect of poor diet. We still have children who survive on a poor diet, but now that seems to be caused by an excess of cheap foods with a high sugar and fat content that are available.

We hear a lot of arguments about the high cost of homes, and the difficulty in getting on the property ladder, but when I was growing up around 1/3 to 1/2 of the people I went to school with lived in rented houses. Their parents didn't really even think about wanting to own a home. Many didn't want the responsibility of home ownership, being responsible for repairs, being tied down with a mortgage, etc. Now it seems that there is a lot of pressure placed on everyone to own a home, and I'm not convinced it's the best housing solution for everyone. My sister is only a few years younger than me and has lived in rented accommodation for decades, and is quite content to remain that way; she and her husband just don't want the hassle of home ownership. Arguably we lost the plot with mad Thatcher trying to get rid of a lot of rented accommodation, and creating a culture of greed, and as a result I believe we should be trying to reverse that by investing in a lot more affordable rented accommodation and trying to change the view that everyone should own their home. I didn't buy a house until I was 34, which I'd guess isn't far off the age that a lot of the current generation may become first time buyers. Not long after buying our first house we had to live through a time when mortgage interest rates went up to around 15%, too, so we got well and truly stung by our lender at the time.

G-CPTN
6th Nov 2018, 14:21
As I see it, the weakness of renting a property is that you have little security of tenure.

Ancient Mariner
6th Nov 2018, 15:02
Cadet ship four days travel from home, by sea, at 14 , Barents Sea fisherman at 15, deep sea sailor at 16, father at 18, married at 19. First house; two rooms, cold water only, toilet outside.
Snowflake, me?
Oh, wait, born in '53, no Baby Boomer. ;)
Per

Mac the Knife
6th Nov 2018, 15:27
Pretty sure I'm a Baby Boomer (forty-niner)

Boarding-school at 7, cold-water, sodomy and to-the-blood floggings
The glorious sixties, Vietnam, sex, drugs and rock-'n-roll - 2 children
Beaten to a pulp by French police in '68
Fishing-boat crew in Greece for a year (dynamite is very effective)
Running with the bulls in Pamplona, watching the midnight sun in Kiruna
Doing the Ton on my bike with my hair flying in the wind
Mixing it with the Mods, nights in a cell
Living on 20 pounds a month in a squat as a student

Yep, definitely a snowflake moi

Mac

;-)

chevvron
6th Nov 2018, 16:38
Cadet ship four days travel from home, by sea, at 14 , Barents Sea fisherman at 15, deep sea sailor at 16, father at 18, married at 19. First house; two rooms, cold water only, toilet outside.
Snowflake, me?
Oh, wait, born in '53, no Baby Boomer. ;)
Per
Until 1954 when we moved to a [rented] council house, we had one cold water tap in the [unheated] scullery which was across a passage which was open at both ends hence the tap was often frozen in winter, an outside toilet and no electricity so we existed during the dark evenings on gas mantles. This was rented too of course; my parents lived in rented accomodation until they died.
You try and explain that to the youngsters nowadays.

Thomas coupling
6th Nov 2018, 17:05
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-millennials-gen-x-and-boomers-shape-the-workplace-2013-9?IR=T

ShyTorque
6th Nov 2018, 20:58
The real snowflakes appeared about thirty years ago after "No win no fee" lawyers came heavily in on the scene.

My wife picked up our granddaughter from school today. She needed to go in the post office as they walked back to our place and she saw that poppies were on sale and was about to buy one for the granddaughter. She was then told by the girl that they have been banned from wearing them at school - because the pin is deemed too dangerous to have on school property!

There were more than a few pins sticking into the folks who sacrificed everything on our behalf....

Hussar 54
6th Nov 2018, 22:39
Born in 1950. Snowflake - moi? I think not.


Me too.....

Although on a serious note, I'm just happy that I was born when I was and where I was because, in my own very humble opinion, it's all going to be downhill compared to my life for our children and their children...

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Nov 2018, 22:49
As I see it, the weakness of renting a property is that you have little security of tenure.
I'd have thought the really big down side is that you get to retirement age ... and you're still paying rent.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Nov 2018, 22:52
I'm just happy that I was born when I was and where I was because ...
I've heard it put like this:

"After the pill but before AIDS ... and we got student grants too."

flash8
7th Nov 2018, 00:17
My wife picked up our granddaughter from school today. She needed to go in the post office as they walked back to our place and she saw that poppies were on sale and was about to buy one for the granddaughter. She was then told by the girl that they have been banned from wearing them at school - because the pin is deemed too dangerous to have on school property!
I watched some old BBC series about life in the 1960's.... wow... "Health&Safety" I assume wasn't a department around that time... looking at the men on the building sites, top of high rises walking across beams without any ropes and with tools in their hands... (enough to kill anyone underneath if dropped).... it was a real eye opener... but I do agree H&S took on a life of its own since the 80's... now an uncontrollable juggernaut, after all to be litigious I assume H&S rules need to be broken.

Gertrude the Wombat
7th Nov 2018, 00:26
I watched some old BBC series about life in the 1960's.... wow... "Health&Safety" I assume wasn't a department around that time... looking at the men on the building sites, top of high rises walking across beams without any ropes and with tools in their hands... (enough to kill anyone underneath if dropped).... it was a real eye opener... but I do agree H&S took on a life of its own since the 80's... now an uncontrollable juggernaut, after all to be litigious I assume H&S rules need to be broken.
And the comparative figures of people being killed and maimed at work in the 1960s vs now are what?

WingNut60
7th Nov 2018, 00:45
And the comparative figures of people being killed and maimed at work in the 1960s vs now are what?

As with aviation fatalities, rates are markedly improved now,
Is that what you were really asking?

flash8
7th Nov 2018, 01:14
And the comparative figures of people being killed and maimed at work in the 1960s vs now are what?
I'm not disputing things have been markedly improved, that is obvious... but sometimes perhaps go a little too much towards safety (hence no wearing poppies at School). My remark was really just to express surprise at how bad things were then. If we assume that H&S didn't exist so much then I'd hate to call anyone who lived through those times snowflakes! (Disclaimer I was born in 1970...).

ExSp33db1rd
7th Nov 2018, 01:36
.....on gas mantles.

We DREAMED of gas mantles ! ( yes, I was born in Yorkshire )

As I see it, the weakness of renting a property is that you have little security of tenure.

Unless you live in NZ. Just passed a new law that landlords must give a minimum of 90 days notice to tenants, even if they want to sell the place and realise their investment for old age. But tenants .... that's a different story. I got an assurance that my tenants definitely wanted to rent for 8 months minimum, which suited me at the time, so signed contracts, collected a bond just before I finally moved to NZ for retirement. 8 days later, in the New Year, having moved back overseas to finish my then contract, I got a phone call .. We've had our Christmas holiday, we're off now, will leave the key in the door, pay us back our full bound by the end of the week, or we'll send some of our mates around to sort you out when you come and live here. Never have, and never will, rent to a New Zealander again - they can sleep in the gutter, temporary holiday lets from overseas holidaymakers are more work, but they look after the place.

oldpax
7th Nov 2018, 01:50
Born in 1942 so what does that make me?
As for health and safety,I worked in power station construction and start up and safety concerns didnt appear until mid 90s.I could rattle of a few accidents that happened near me but judging from some of the posts people think Health and safety is a joke.

Krystal n chips
7th Nov 2018, 04:23
I watched some old BBC series about life in the 1960's.... wow... "Health&Safety" I assume wasn't a department around that time... looking at the men on the building sites, top of high rises walking across beams without any ropes and with tools in their hands... (enough to kill anyone underneath if dropped).... it was a real eye opener... but I do agree H&S took on a life of its own since the 80's... now an uncontrollable juggernaut, after all to be litigious I assume H&S rules need to be broken.
There are some very alarming shots of the Tyne Bridge being constructed if you fancy doing a bit of searching......showing, for example, the easy way to get from the ground up to the top......just stand on the hook of the crane, hang on to the cable and bingo !.....however, the construction industry was always notorious for the high levels of serious injury and deaths.

Which leads to the much maligned "Elf n Saferty innit " legislation ........slight problem here, called, not unexpectedly, ....humanity.

Now the Act itself was a long overdue piece of legislation because it finally forced indifferent and incompetent "management " to become responsible for employees working practices and environments in preference to their own avaricious greed for profit and even the military were, eventually, forced to comply.....but it clearly required administrating . At this point, life's otherwise inadequate and frustrated megalomaniacs were presented with an opportunity beyond their wildest dreams....the enforcement of the Act within their locality.

These plague carriers spread rapidly across every sector along with being of either gender.....such zealous devotion to their calling becoming endemic as we know.

Sadly, falling as they do into the educational category, thick as pig manure and twice as dense, their enthusiasm for creating their own little empires quite often backfires ....

Myth Busters Challenge Panel (http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/myth-busting/index.htm)

Sometimes however, Karma makes a contribution. One such zealot I knew decided to clean his gutters with a jet wash....I know, but he did. Diligently securing himself to the ladder after ascending to the gutter, he duly squeezed the trigger and hey presto, the jet wash performed as expected.

Unfortunately, falling firmly ( no pun intended cos he duly did ) into to aforementioned educational category, he was blissfully ignorant as to the laws of some bloke called Newton......thankfully, the NHS helped him make a full recovery over a period of about six weeks.

DON T
7th Nov 2018, 04:32
Strangely only one man died during the construction of the Tyne Bridge and this happened when it was near completion.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/history/gallery/building-tyne-bridge-10848706

chuks
7th Nov 2018, 08:55
I am a product of the Baby Boom, born in late 1947 to parents who both had served in the US Navy during the war. (Father from Oregon, mother from Connecticut, no way for them to have met if there had not been a war. This sort of social mixing was another part of what led to the Boom, I think, along with the fact of the sexes partially having been separated in the States between 1942 and mid-1945. Both of these things were due to military service.)

There was that usual parental lag between meeting, forming some sort of bond, marrying, and reproducing, so that it usually was not nine months after the end of the war, as if everyone went at it like rabbits on VJ Day.

I missed a lot of the fun in the late Sixties because I was in Vietnam for two years (Saigon warrior, mostly), and when I returned things had changed out of all recognition, with that change largely driven by the activism of my generation. Changed social attitudes and practices were then passed along to the children of the Boomers, and then to other children born into this changed society.

I was back in the States between late 2010 and early 2013, when I was able to see some of our children in closeup. My God! Dry academic presentations had to be prefaced with "trigger warnings" since some of these children were supposedly unable to handle topics such as violence without bracing themselves. Anodyne words such as "blackmail," and "spokesman" now had other, highly negative meanings attached. "Female" was no longer any good, since it has "male" in it. We had kicked the chocks out, and this is how far things had got with our children.

Things really came unglued one day in an Art History class when a sculpture group depicting the "Rape of the Sabine Women" came up for discussion. "Rape" is a word that has more meanings than the common one, as shown by that poem titled "The Rape of the Lock," having to do with a purloined lock of hair. In the same way, those Sabine women were shown being abducted by Romans. They were being stolen, not raped in the modern sense of the word, and I tried to point that out.

A snotty little female went a bit mad then, of course, telling me that as a man I had no right to discuss rape at all, that she (newly self-styled as a he, of course) had friends who had been raped ... and on and on she went, making what should have been a nuanced discussion of an important theme in classical art into something completely, uselessly personal. The professor said not a word to regain control of the discussion, let alone to point out that I was factually correct in what I had to say about the alternate meaning of the term "rape." Nothing of value was said about the sculpture group, so that the class ended with the rest of us just sat there listening to this female rant.

That continued after class with me being told that I had no business there at all on account of my age and gender. I guess you could say that our Boomer struggle for tolerance has ended with another sort of nonsensical "fight for peace": the use of intolerance to fight for tolerance.

So much for the true tolerance my generation had supposedly struggled for.

This seemed to show me that, really, we had simply won control from our parents to do things our way. Once we had got what we thought we wanted then we had spoiled our children, some of them.

Now we have this polarized society with two extremes. Way out on one fringe are these spoiled children who want things their way, and never mind the facts. These are the sort of people who wanted Bernie Sanders, got Hillary Clinton, and then either did not vote at all, or wrote in the name of their pet rat, or even voted for Donald Trump. All of this was just to show us how hurt their feelings had been.

Way out on the other fringe are Trump's people, who seem to want to get things back under control, to return to some imaginary vision of an America set back to the values of the early Fifties, when a white-led America where everyone knew his place was the Leader of the Free World. Back then you knew where you stood, and if you forgot that some cop would come along to put you in your place.

It looks to me as if the folks in the middle, many of them, have drifted towards one or the other extreme so that true American values, tolerance and moderation particularly, simply do not have as many adherents as had been the case. If you compare, say, Barry Goldwater's rhetoric from the Sixties, taken as extreme then, to Trump's rhetoric now, taken as expressive of "what a lot of people are really thinking," then you can see what I am trying to say about our drift to the right. Extremist Goldwater was far less extreme then than mainstream Donald Trump is now.

On the left in the Sixties we simply did not have much promulgation of what is now taken as making sense, including the vilification of the police and the praise of black criminality as found in so-called rap music. We fought for more freedom of speech, and this is what we got, really?

Turbine D
7th Nov 2018, 15:16
Original Quote by oldpax
Born in 1942 so what does that make me?
It would be generally accepted that you were part of The Silent Generation...Generations and Age From the Pew Research Organizationhttp://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ST_18.02.27_millenials_topic_page-1.png

Gertrude the Wombat
7th Nov 2018, 18:01
I'm not disputing things have been markedly improved, that is obvious... but sometimes perhaps go a little too much towards safety (hence no wearing poppies at School).
I bought a poppy today. No pin, just a stalk to stick in a button hole.

DON T
7th Nov 2018, 18:26
I bought a poppy today. No pin, just a stalk to stick in a button hole.

Poppies for the few years have had a plastic stalk with a ‘branch’ on it which stops it falling out.

ShyTorque
7th Nov 2018, 19:15
Unfortunately, little girls' school uniforms don't have button holes so a pin is needed.

DON T
7th Nov 2018, 19:33
Unfortunately, little girls' school uniforms don't have button holes so a pin is needed.


Well I am not an expert on girls school uniforms but I would suggest that the majority have either a button hole or a zip with a hole in it.����

Pontius Navigator
7th Nov 2018, 19:45
I am surprised famers can grow rape, that students could be taken to a rape field. That male hens as cocks. That some dogs are bitches. Black and white are not colours.

jindabyne
7th Nov 2018, 20:19
Hussar said ---

Although on a serious note, I'm just happy that I was born when I was and where I was because, in my own very humble opinion, it's all going to be downhill compared to my life for our children and their children..
Quite right!

And not through any of my doing. And let not anybody tell me that "you're lucky, you have a good pension, and a house". I earned and payed for my pension, and now I pay tax upon it, quite rightly. As for the house, yes, deposits were more affordable in my day, but I spent a long time grafting for, and paying off the balance - as is the case today.

And let's remember, had I fallen on hard times in my early life, the kind of benefits that are available nowadays (old expression!) were non-existent.

Spoon fed? I don't think so.

All that said, the young people that I chat with in my pub, behind and in front of the bar, give me the impression that their generation is grafting away and and gets their enjoyment from much the same things as I did. Mobiles aside!!

Rant over.:)

.

cee cee
10th Nov 2018, 10:24
And let not anybody tell me that "you're lucky, you have a good pension, and a house". I earned and payed for my pension, and now I pay tax upon it,

If you think that you paid for your pension through taxes, that is not really true. What you paid for was the pensions of those who have retired while you were still earning. Unless you contributed to some superannuation scheme or are a totally self-funded retiree, that claim is incorrect.

Why am I being that pedantic? Because it is the current generation of workers that are paying twice: once in taxes for the current pensioners and once in compulsory superannuation deductions for their own retirement. And also because the pension scheme that you are enjoying is not sustainable.

Pensions worked in the past because of two reasons:
1. short life expentency - most people died after around 10 years of retirement. Current and future retirees can expect to live 20-30 years after reitrement, even taking into account the later retirement age.
2. slow down in productivity growth and jobs growth. The number of workers per retiree have been shrinking over the decades, not the least because of the large increase in retiree numbers when the baby boomers reached reitrement age. Smaller families now means that the trend is not going to reverse.

As for the house, yes, deposits were more affordable in my day, but I spent a long time grafting for, and paying off the balance - as is the case today.

True, although most calculations of <house price>/<average wages> have increased dramatically over the period. You did have to contend with the insanely high interest rates though.

And let's remember, had I fallen on hard times in my early life, the kind of benefits that are available nowadays (old expression!) were non-existent.

But you also had the support of a larger extented family at that time. That is very much corroded by shrinking family size and the rise of individualism. [aside: an extreme version happened to China over the last four decades with their one child policy. It will be interesting to see what effects that will have on their culture]


All that said, the young people that I chat with in my pub, behind and in front of the bar, give me the impression that their generation is grafting away and and gets their enjoyment from much the same things as I did. Mobiles aside!!


Work dynamics has changed. Job security is a thing of the past in most places. In the past, changing jobs very five years is seen as not having staying power. Now changing jobs every five years is seen as too infrequent and being stale.

I am an early X'er so I can see the changes on both sides.

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Nov 2018, 10:32
the kind of benefits that are available nowadays (old expression!) were non-existent.
And what would they be then?

I have claimed the dole twice, decades apart, and on both occasions it was £40 per week (less 40% income tax the second time).

Last time I couldn't find any paid work for a year I checked what benefits I could get, and it was still £40 per week. So I didn't bother to claim, as I couldn't be arsed with the paperwork for that little reward.

The first time I claimed the dole £40 per week was enough to live on, and I could even afford to do things like rent cars to go to job interviews. The second time I claimed the dole £40 per week less 40% income tax was barely enough to pay the poll tax, nothing left over for things like mortgage or food. What would £40 per week do for you these days?

ShyTorque
10th Nov 2018, 11:21
I remember the good old days...

Especially a freezing cold house, three months of autumn/winter smog, no TV (although a second hand radio did come along in the early 1960s), bread and dripping sandwiches for tea, scarlet fever and rickets for afters.
Obviously, it's far worse these days.

The old cardboard box and hot gravel sketch repeats will be along soon...

Fareastdriver
10th Nov 2018, 12:35
both occasions it was £40 per week (less 40% income tax the second time).

You had the cheek to claim unemployment benefit after earning enough to be liable for that.

My son lost his job twelve years ago. Benefits? Not when he had all that money he was saving for a house deposit.

Buster15
10th Nov 2018, 13:19
I was born in 1950 so I guess I would be classed as a boomer.

One thing that gets me annoyed is the widely held view that we have had it easy.

Far from it. We saved with a Building Society to buy a house in 1972. We had to apply for a mortgage every month and every month the mortgage money had run out.

Eventually early in 1973 we were granted a mortgage but only if we bought a new house. During that time house prices rocketed and the house we initially wanted went up from £6500 to 7500.

In addition the mortgage rate went up to 12.5% and then up to over 15%.

I had to work night shift and a part time job in a pub on the weekend just to keep up the mortgage payments. We had a second hand black and white TV a cooker and fridge and a bed. We sat down on deck chairs.

So yes we had it easy....