EASA safety pilot?? [Archive]

avio85

2nd Nov 2018, 13:08

Hi,
According to EASA regulations
A PPL holder, joining a flight in Europe on the right seat, being a safety pilot to the PPL PIC,
Can log this time? (even for total time)

Will be thankful for answers and info source, if possible

Dufo

2nd Nov 2018, 14:23

No, it is not possible.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/AMC%20and%20GM%20to%20Part-FCL.pdf

Page 16.

avio85

2nd Nov 2018, 16:00

No, it is not possible.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/AMC%20and%20GM%20to%20Part-FCL.pdf

Page 16.

Thanks.
I see on page 17 that it is possible to log as a co-pilot only if the a/c is defined as a tw-pilot a/c.
Which is of course not the case with a C172... :-)

RHSandLovingIt

2nd Nov 2018, 23:46

Thanks.
I see on page 17 that it is possible to log as a co-pilot only if the a/c is defined as a tw-pilot a/c.
Which is of course not the case with a C172... :-)
That isn't entirely accurate...

co-pilot flight time: the holder of a pilot licence occupying a pilot seat as co-pilot may log all flight time as co-pilot flight time on an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft, or the regulations under which the flight is conducted;

I accumulated 1000+ SIC time on a Cessna Caravan. The C208B is a Single Pilot certified aircraft. However, the regs for the country covering that operation stated that aircraft over 10 seats required two crew. The company I worked for were operating them with 12 pax seats, so therefore, in that instance you could log the co-pilot time even though the aircraft was technically a single pilot aircraft. ;)

avio85

4th Nov 2018, 11:35

That isn't entirely accurate...

I accumulated 1000+ SIC time on a Cessna Caravan. The C208B is a Single Pilot certified aircraft. However, the regs for the country covering that operation stated that aircraft over 10 seats required two crew. The company I worked for were operating them with 12 pax seats, so therefore, in that instance you could log the co-pilot time even though the aircraft was technically a single pilot aircraft. ;)

As far as I remember from air low, in that cas you can log up to 50% of the time. Isn't that?

RHSandLovingIt

4th Nov 2018, 20:19

No... I can log all of it... However, only up to 50% (to a max of 500 hrs) can be counted towards the hour requirements for the issue of a "higher" licence... ie. the 1500 TT requirement for an ATPL.

NOTE: this is for NZCAA...

It would appear that EASA don't have this 50% rule as far as I can tell:
FCL.510.A ATPL(A) — Prerequisites, experience and crediting
(a) Prerequisites. Applicants for an ATPL(A) shall hold:
(1) an MPL; or
(2) a CPL(A) and a multi-engine IR for aeroplanes. In this case, the applicant shall also have
received instruction in MCC.
(b) Experience. Applicants for an ATPL(A) shall have completed a minimum of 1 500 hours of flight
time in aeroplanes, including at least:
(1) 500 hours in multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes;
(2)(i) 500 hours as PIC under supervision; or
(ii) 250 hours as PIC; or
(iii) 250 hours, including at least 70 hours as PIC, and the remaining as PIC under supervision;
(3) 200 hours of cross-country flight time of which at least 100 hours shall be as PIC or as PIC
under supervision;
(4) 75 hours of instrument time of which not more than 30 hours may be instrument ground
time; and
(5) 100 hours of night flight as PIC or co-pilot.
Of the 1 500 hours of flight time, up to 100 hours of flight time may have been completed in
an FFS and FNPT. Of these 100 hours, only a maximum of 25 hours may be completed in an
FNPT.
(c) Crediting.
(1) Holders of a pilot licence for other categories of aircraft shall be credited with flight time
up to a maximum of:
(i) for TMG or sailplanes, 30 hours flown as PIC;
(ii) for helicopters, 50 % of all the flight time requirements of paragraph (b).
(2) Holders of a flight engineer licence issued in accordance with applicable national rules
shall be credited with 50 % of the flight engineer time up to a maximum credit of 250 hours.
Part-FCL – Subpart F (ATPL), AMC and GM V1, June 2016

These 250 hours may be credited against the 1 500 hours requirement of paragraph (b), and
the 500 hours requirement of paragraph (b)(1), provided that the total credit given against
any of these paragraphs does not exceed 250 hours.
(d) The experience required in (b) shall be completed before the skill test for the ATPL(A) is taken.

Additionally... I found this on the UKCAA website which clarifies some of the Multi-Pilot stuff:

Multi-pilot experience gained in single pilot aircraft
For two pilot operations in single pilot aeroplanes to be accepted as “Multi-pilot operations” you must show evidence that the approval of the operator to carry out the flight included a legal requirement that two pilots acting together was the minimum allowable crew for the flight.
The European Aircrew Regulation includes the following definitions:

Multi-pilot operation
For aeroplanes, it means an operation requiring at least 2 pilots using multi-crew cooperation in either multi-pilot or single-pilot aeroplanes;
For helicopters, it means an operation requiring at least 2 pilots using multi-crew cooperation on multi-pilot helicopters.

Multi-pilot aircraft
For aeroplanes, it means aeroplanes certificated for operation with a minimum crew of at least two pilots;
For helicopters, airships and powered-lift aircraft, it means the type of aircraft which is required to be operated with a co-pilot as specified in the flight manual or by the air operator certificate or equivalent document.
A flight with two pilots who are simply taking turns to fly - and where the flight could still take place if only one pilot was available - is not a multi-pilot operation. For a flight to be accepted as multi-pilot the law that applied to the flight must require 2 pilots.
Documentary evidence from both the operator (Air Operator’s Certificate clearly identifying the nature of the operations) and the national authority concerned confirming that the aircraft used was required to be operated solely by 2 pilots qualified on type will be required as well as logbook evidence.

So, as long as you have the appropriate regulatory approvals... an operation using a single-pilot certified aircraft... can still be classified as a multi-pilot operation if the law requires it.

avio85

5th Nov 2018, 19:52