Cobham Aviation

[Stationair8]

For those interested, Cobhams are advertising on the AFAP webpage for Dash8 crew, B717 First Officers and CL604 crew.

[Far Canel]

Rumors that they were interviewing last month?.

[Blitzkrieger]

Go for it boys and girls! It’s a great way to get some jet time.

[markfelt]

Rumors that they were interviewing last month?.


Employing too. RAAF pilots off to Special Missions fleet.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Old news. The "rumour" is that they have been interviewing solidly for several months, I hope they are not struggling to find applicants. With lines like:

"Cobham is continuously seeking suitably qualified pilots to join our team as First Officers in an environment where career and lifestyle combine" and "Opportunities to progress to command within relatively short timeframes"

Who could resist?

(My bolding etc)

[Icarus2001]

The "rumour" is that they have been interviewing solidly for several months]

You need to be more specific as there are four operations. Regional, Airline, Surveillance as Coastwatch and the SAR work. All different AOCs.

[717tech]

Surveillance and AMSA are almost continuously recruiting.... nothing new there.

[pilotchute]

I find it funny that the Cobham freight/146 operation hardly ever advertise and seem to have no trouble with retention.

Makes you wonder why the SAR and Coastwatch operation seem to be a revolving door.

[logansi]

Its it possible to move within the operations or is recruitment handled externally?

[AerocatS2A]

I find it funny that the Cobham freight/146 operation hardly ever advertise and seem to have no trouble with retention.

Makes you wonder why the SAR and Coastwatch operation seem to be a revolving door.

Freight 146s have had very high turnover lately.

[Blitzkrieger]

I’m told the 717 turnover is high.

[Toruk Macto]

Looking at job recruitment adds for truck drivers and seamen I’m seeing companies offering bases of choice , multiply packages , offering big money for working max hours to reduced rosters / trips to barely working options . Companies willing to tailor individual packages to suit ? .

Airlines so so far behind , don’t care except drive the salary down at all costs .

[neville_nobody]

Airlines so so far behind , don’t care except drive the salary down at all costs .

At the end of the day Airlines are always going to be able to open the floodgates to the world to come and work here with zero resistance from the government.

If a domestic marine business tried that on it will end with WWIII with the CFMEU and most likely the Labor Party. When you've got that kind of fire power behind you can get any kind of rostering you want.

[Chocks Away]

Blitz' (https://www.pprune.org/members/418785-blitzkrieger)
It's a MASSIVE turnover EVERYWHERE mate, Australia; Pacific; USA; Asia; Japan; M.E.; Africa; Europe... f'gen everywhere cuz!
Pilots are moving all over the globe in search of better deals and as you see, the "cat-fish"/bottom dwellers of the industry are short of crew!
I haven't ever seen such desperation in crew-hunting by airlines in Australia (though they hide it for of loss of face), in my 3 decade career BECAUSE of what Toruk mentions above - Airlines so so far behind , don’t care except drive the salary down at all costs.

The stupidity of Australian Airlines (Int/Domestic & Regional) is, that they think they are soooo special and that they have sooo much to offer.
Well it's time to wake up and smell the coffee because no one now, globally is out there to help crew your staff shortages AND now you are meant to have "Fatigue Management Systems" etc you have to deal with-in constraints finally. OUCH! Long time overdue!

Qantaslink searching in Africa? LOL Emirates/Turkish/Qatar dried up that pool of experienced ones in Africa etc years ago, before all the USA majors started huge recruitment's to cover for their massive number of retirements (huge evac from M.E.). You're in a global market of labour resourcing now kids (Airline CEO's) because you failed to invest in your future streams! Reap what you sow because it's going to cost you more now!

The ball is not in your court finally, so show me the money... and we will fix your parked aircraft against the fence, with the return of many & varied highly experienced Aussie operators from overseas to help clear the mire of the current "divide & conquer" managerial (I use that term VERY losely) expertise (that too) who currently see themselves fit to administer aviation companies.
Can I just, by the way - Accountants are accountants... lawyers are lawyers... stay in your qualified jobs and stop transferring to Industries you know nothing about, such as the very unique Aviation Industry! If you think otherwise, you obviously have no clue or any idea of what happened in the past numerous times from those of your ilk.

[pilotchute]

What makes it even more ridiculous is when an airline screaming for crew will still knock back candidates for lack of twin or or multi crew time.

[Icarus2001]

At the end of the day Airlines are always going to be able to open the floodgates to the world to come and work here with zero resistance from the government.

Can I respectfully suggest that there is no massive pool of pilots overseas who are being held back by these floodgates. The global nature of aviation has seen to that. Chinese carriers, ever the pragmatists, are simply throwing money at the problem. The ME3 have no idea what to do so are looking at a merger. There may well be a few South Africans and South Americans who would like to move to Australia to work but certainly not huge numbers. I know this talking to managers and recruitment companies who have gone looking and found the well to be dry.

[Toruk Macto]

Friend of mine working in oil industry as captain on supply ship , he lives on island of coast of Australia . His company gives him month on month off and fly’s him to where ship is , Qantas club , confirmed tickets , he knows when he will be working for next 12 months . At the time I’m flying for company in oil industry and my roster good for a week and after that it’s in lap of operational God’s , 2 weeks notice due base closures and get yourself there if you want a job . Place littered with divorced dads , Blokes using alcohol to self medicate , if you don’t like it leave was only option ( which I did ) . Respect won’t be given it has to be earnt , conditions won’t improve by therself . Oil prices on way up ? There is a pilot shortage !

[Duck Pilot]

Get out of the aviation industry into Oil and Gas if you can, it’s a hard nut to crack but it’s possible as I did it a few years ago.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

You need to be more specific as there are four operations. Regional, Airline, Surveillance as Coastwatch and the SAR work. All different AOCs.

Icarus2001, specifically, I think all of the BUs are trying to hire and rate of turnover is close to matching recruitment rate in some cases.

[Toruk Macto]

Qantas have identified the No 1 threat to their business going forward is lack of pilots . For companies like Cobham and regeniols in general it must make sense to have a stable workforce ? Not just pay rates but lifestyle options of commuting contracts , part time or condensed rosters could solve turnover rates ? Chinese carriers will dictate pay rates going forward but Australian lifestyle is attractive if rosters stable and lifestyle ok ?

[Duck Pilot]

I’ve thrown my hat in the ring for a few part time jobs in Darwin, feedback that I’ve received is that they are only interested in full timers as they recon it would be to difficult to intergrate a part time pilot into their CAR 217?? I’m not convinced that this is really a valid reason particularly if the part timers have substantial experience compounded by the fact that some operators are dangling the FIFO carrot.

[pilotchute]

The reason they don't want part time is because they couldn't plan anything to save themselves.

​​​​​​I know a couple of Southern operators who hire part timers and it works well for them.

What there is a shortage of is type rated ready go kids willing to do anything for little money.

[Flydawg]

Cobham have been interviewing for a few months, I have friends that have done interview with them and friends that have applied and haven't heard back, only difference is mates that got an interview had over 1000 hrs twin time, they are being very picky and wanting guy/girls with twin time.

[Duck Pilot]

Type rated ready to go kids with no experience on type willing to do anything for little money? Accidents generally aren't good PR spins for airlines.

[Blitzkrieger]

Isn't that the beauty of subcontractors though? All that nasty stuff like accidents can be kept at arms length :eek:

[smiling monkey]

Heard rumours/whispers of the Ejet making a return to regional services. Can anyone confirm?

[ITCZ]

Funny how simply naming something "a group" manages to blind side so many folk.

If you're mildly interested in flying for "Cobham" as a pilot, better get your head around the fact that there are FOUR operations called Cobham.
Four tribes if you like, each with their own..
Chief pilot
Training department
Aircraft type
Culture
Mission
Career path
Terms and conditions.
Etc.

And:

It is harder for a "cobham" pilot to 'transfer' to another 'business unit' than it is for a needle to pass through the eye of a camel.... or whatever.

For any indignant "a company oughta" posters.... not my circus, not my monkeys... I agree it does not make sense.... but that's their way and they ain't changing for no pilot!

[Notthisguy]

While I agree with most of your points, how is it harder for a Cobham pilot to move between groups?

[pilotchute]

Just to make it clear Cobham has 4 distinct business units (possibly three). Each one is operated as a separate business. Seperate HR and management. I think SAR and Coastwatch may be under the one banner. Moving between units is like moving to another company. It would be like going from Qlink to Jetstar. Full interview and all the associated nonsense.

[Notthisguy]

I understand they have different groups under the same company, but I wouldn't agree with different interviews going between the different sections, some do defiantly but others seems to work quite well with each other and tend to take the pilot on merit and a phone call.

Sar and Special mission operate under the same Aoc.

[Icarus2001]

Moving between units is like moving to another company.

Almost but not quite. I checked with two sources and they kept LSL and sick leave, employee number etc. I know of people from three BUs that are now in other BUs but it is harder than it could be.

[717tech]

People do move between the three BUs, but it’s not common (easy).

[ITCZ]

While I agree with most of your points, how is it harder for a Cobham pilot to move between groups?
[rolleyes]

Ask the Perth 146 FO who applied for a B717 FO vacancy on the East coast to be nearer his dying father. He had the seniority. There were no impediments like base or type freeze and he had solid line check sim check results and a clean history. His chief pilot told him he would recommend him for the transfer. The vacancy went to a new hire. When he enquired, the 717 people told him his application was not competitive.

The only BU pilots that have "rights" to a vacancy in another BU are the pre-2005 BAe146 pilots that used to be employed by NJS BU. Mostly west coast 146 Captains that are no longer interested.

The last transferee had a LOT of influence - the Chief of the B717 outfit took himself out of that role and into a line 146 captain role. Not many 'internal applicants' have that sort of pull.

Prior to that, the last Surveillance to Airline internal transferees were maybe half a dozen D8 captains promised B717 FO spots by "Uday" upon Uday's appointment to GM AS.

By my count, that is 6 applicants out of more than 100 vacancies. All of them had "pull" or positional power. Those that didn't have 'pull' found 'their' jobs filled by external applicants.

Every other pilot that has transferred into the B717 outfit has had to compete directly with external applicants.

That 'even footing' with external applicants is tilted against the BU to BU applicant whenever a chief pilot of one BU says to the other "we can't afford to lose a Captain/FO right now."

And given Cobham's business model of pricing customer contracts based on the number of pilots nominally required to fulfil the contract, and then increasing profit margins later by keeping the base establishments at one or two pilots under that number, paying overtime, and restricting annual leave and LSL, and then pocketing the savings in sims/uniforms/etc, it is rare for a Cobham chief to say "we could afford to lose one!"

Maybe you are an exceptional individual. By all means, give it a try.

I simply think it is easier to get a better job working for nicer people, elsewhere!

;-)

[ITCZ]

Almost but not quite. I checked with two sources and they kept LSL and sick leave, employee number etc. I know of people from three BUs that are now in other BUs but it is harder than it could be.
Thats like the situation where if you win a car in a lottery, the lottery organiser pays stamp duty and rego on the car for the winner.
Very nice of them.
But first you have to win the lottery.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

it is rare for a Cobham chief to say "we could afford to lose one!"

Ironic then that the practice of “blocking” ones mobility through the fleets/BUs is exactly what is causing pilots to go elsewhere. It’s a case of can these Chiefs afford not lose one or two in order to keep them happy.

P.S. I’m told the FO you mention ITCZ will never get the opportunity to be near his (now late) parents.

[Half Baked]

A LOT of uninformed commentary in all of this supposition.

Take it from someone who actually KNOWS AND DEALS with the facts with ALL of this, and is involved at the very highest level...........

[mince]

A LOT of uninformed commentary in all of this supposition

Wouldn't expect anything less from the prune, would ya?

[Icarus2001]

A LOT of uninformed commentary in all of this supposition.
and is involved at the very highest level...........

Well surely it is incumbent on you at your lofty level to set the record straight?

[Trevor the lover]

......................and to address the loss of pilots by maybe, just maybe, trying to look after them. yeah.....nah

[R.Cruizo]

Trevor is 100% correct. Looking after the pilots they have and improving morale will cost Cobham nothing and possibly save them alot of money

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Looking after pilots is nice in theory, but our profession is plagued by misnomers and a consummate lack of understanding or respect for what we can and do bring to the operation (thanks Bob ya w@nker). Management simply cannot bring themselves to break the anti pilot attitude and until then they will continue to see the steady outflow of pilots. In the case of Cobham I think they are so far off the back of the drag curve they will have to descend to recover.....management, don't bother trying to understand that analogy, it's a pilot thing!

[Toruk Macto]

Post 89 attitude of confrontation relations , new age HR attitude , latestes MBA theories , accountants who know cost of everything and managers who know only one way . Irish CEO’s !


Why no experienced Pilots ?

[notthisguy1]

[rolleyes]

Maybe you are an exceptional individual. By all means, give it a try.

I simply think it is easier to get a better job working for nicer people, elsewhere!

;-)

Thanks for the reply mate, i was genuinely interested as to why you think its harder to transfer so you will have to explain why the extra "rollseyes" was necessary?

Thanks very unfortunate for the Bae146 FO to be knocked back for the transfer between business units, however i have seem 6 people in the last year move over to the 717's, so again, why is it difficult for this to happen? I was hoping you actually had some knowledge of the process not just something you have herd from someone you maybe know.

I do agree, there are better opportunities with other companies, hence why i did make the move. However, the job was pretty amazing.

[Trigger Happy]

Hi, can anyone share some info on the various bases offered for the 717 - positives/ negatives etc rosters/ days off/ nights away & lifestyle generally as a FO. For those involved, sorry to hear about the Darwin base. PM if you like. Cheers.

[Burleigh Effect]

Hi all, has anyone got any info (they're willing to share) regarding Cobham's recruitment for the Dash? I've heard through the grapevine that crewing shortages *may* be impacting operations - this is after all a rumour forum.

[onehitwonder]

Most of the dash drivers i know are maxing out their hours each month

[The Banjo]

Hi, can anyone share some info on the various bases offered for the 717 - positives/ negatives etc rosters/ days off/ nights away & lifestyle generally as a FO. For those involved, sorry to hear about the Darwin base. PM if you like. Cheers.

The 717 endo is not a lot of use in the market place. It is marginally above 50T- good. Some will tell you it is just like the 777 because of a few panel similarities-so what. A handful of airframes worldwide-bad. ANY move will require another full endorsement.

Hangout for an A320 (100% endorsed on A318-19-20-21, 90% of A330/340, 80% of A350/380) or B737 (same same) gig otherwise make sure you can do a runner when opportunity knocks. They are a contract company that hangs by the contract thread.

[Wandering66]

I've been told the Dash guys are completely maxed out on hours although they are offering a decent contract for Captains that works out at 3 weeks on 3 weeks off! Seems too good to be true. Nothing for F/O's though.

717 is a different beast. Qantas owned and they dictate what will happen. A lot of old timers that need to retire but the new eba will keep them there.

A new CEO just came in but still in training. Not very positive in the stock market and any loss of contract could see everything go.

I applied 2 years ago and didn't hear anything back. Hopefully things have changed! I was offered another position soon after applying so no grudges to hold but do know some guys there.

Hope this helps!

[RENURPP]

Hi, can anyone share some info on the various bases offered for the 717 - positives/ negatives etc rosters/ days off/ nights away & lifestyle generally as a FO. For those involved, sorry to hear about the Darwin base. PM if you like. Cheers.
Bases are Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Cairns, Hobart and Perth.
Brisbane is unlikely for a new start. The rosters vary depending on base, as do overnights.
Lifestyle is probably better than Qf definitely better than Jetstar and Tiger. Quite a few guys back from O/S are enjoying the aircraft and lifestyle. Money is OK. It is a contract section of the company so who knows how long the contract is going to continue? I think 26 years to date.

[Icarus2001]

]It is a contract section of the company so who knows how long the contract is going to continue? Just like all the other "sections" of the company. Each one is a contract company with varying levels of future stability. That is what Cobham is, a contract based charter company.

[RENURPP]

Just like all the other "sections" of the company. Each one is a contract company with varying levels of future stability. That is what Cobham is, a contract based charter company.
https://www.cobham.com/
Really

[Icarus2001]

Really. In Australia, which is what we are talking about.

[HappyBandit]

Can anyone tell me about the 146 East Coast job? Is it all night freight and typically where do you travel to? What's the morale and T&C's like?

[Going Nowhere]

The 146 in BNE does BNE-SYD-MEL-SYD-BNE every Mon-Thu night.

[Rated De]

https://www.cobham.com/
Really

Cobham is a company an incorporated body.
In the Australian context is is simply a contract company providing crew to Qantas.
The aircraft belong to Qantas, but the crew do not.
The tickets are endorsed as such, rather like they were with Jetconnect.
Or Comair and British Airways.

Outsourced.

[AerocatS2A]

Can anyone tell me about the 146 East Coast job? Is it all night freight and typically where do you travel to? What's the morale and T&C's like?

Brisbane base, with its one duty four nights a week, has three or four crews (it’s fluid and I’m out of touch), you do the math!

On the other hand, the freight flying exists solely because the 146 is allowed into Sydney during curfew. The curfew act explicitly states that this dispensation finishes when Badgerys Creek opens. By all means have a crack at it, but you might be better off in Adelaide where they do a bit of mining charter as well the freight. You may even get to fly a Dash 8 400!

[RENURPP]

Cobham is a company an incorporated body.
In the Australian context is is simply a contract company providing crew to Qantas.
The aircraft belong to Qantas, but the crew do not.
The tickets are endorsed as such, rather like they were with Jetconnect.
Or Comair and British Airways.

Outsourced.
the Australian part includes the border force dash 8’s not owned crewed or associated with Qantas.
Search and Rescue Challengers, not owned, crewed or associated with Qantas
the charter side with BAe 146, Dash 8 400’s, E190 which are not owned, crewed or associated with Qantas, (with the exception of a couple of freighters which are contracted to STARTRACK)
the PNG (while not strictly an Australian operation) it does operate into and managed from Australia and is not owned, crewed or associated with Qantas , however in isolation the B717’s are as you indicate.

[Rated De]

the Australian part includes the border force dash 8’s not owned crewed or associated with Qantas.
Search and Rescue Challengers, not owned, crewed or associated with Qantas
the charter side with BAe 146, Dash 8 400’s, E190 which are not owned, crewed or associated with Qantas, (with the exception of a couple of freighters which are contracted to STARTRACK)
the PNG (while not strictly an Australian operation) it does operate into and managed from Australia and is not owned, crewed or associated with Qantas , however in isolation the B717’s are as you indicate.

Thank you for the clarification, it did require expansion.
The Cobham 'company' is a large defence contractor, a PLC company in the UK.
From memory James Strong's wife was heavily involved in the Seymour days of National Jet systems the precursor to Cobham Aviation Services in Australia.

[F.Nose]

You memory does not serve you well.

It was in fact Guy Lloyd of Lloyd Aviations wife who was involved in NJS early operation. Guy Lloyd was a silent partner in the business when he passed. Adel Lloyd inherited his business.

[regional_flyer]

You may even get to fly a Dash 8 400!




Unlikely out of ADL. The Q400 is intended to replace the capacity of the gravel-kitted 146-100/-200s/RJ85s (approx 70-80 seats), and are based at PER. The ADL contract requires the -300/RJ100 with higher capacity, which can't be replaced by a Q400.

[SAABGUY]

So does anyone have any heads up on the phone interview?

[White tshirt]

Any one have any further info on the recruitment process? What's the Perth roster like on the 717? Sim ride on the 717 or something else? What's the Canberra roster like?

[Trigger Happy]

Behavioural style interview but mostly just confirming hours and experience. No tech questions. No idea on the current bases and rosters.

[KRUSTY 34]

Anyone received the invite for the Interview/Sim on he 16th/17th April?

[KRUSTY 34]

Anyone received the invite for the Interview/Sim on he 16th/17th April?

Anyone????

[Double_Clutch]

Guess not - maybe they might be testing patience?

[Capn Bloggs]

Sickem, Rex!

[Daddy Fantastic]

Anybody invited to sim on July 30, 31st, Aug 1st. What is the simride like?

Any info on what to expect for the sim is much appreciated.

[galdian]

If the same exercise as ~ 18 months ago just flying around BN airport with standard type stuff, nothing "out of the box" comes back to haunt me.

If the same 737FBS then what does haunt me is it was incredibly unstable and twitchy - at least IMHO, anything you can do to practice/get your scan rate up will assist.

Good luck.

[beached az]

Anyone know what the current CTL base $$$$ is for the CL604 (FO)?
Latest agreement seems to have expired in June.

Cheers,
BaZ :ok:

[beached az]

There is no training salary, so pay from day 1 is $91170. EBA expired in June as you said and is currently being negotiated.

Thank you :ok:

[One eye chimp]

Hello,

Does anyone have information for a heads up on the phone interview.

Cheers

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Hello,

Does anyone have information for a heads up on the phone interview.

Cheers

A good heads up would be to miss that call.