View Full Version : BAe will go to the Ball
NavyNav2
17th Oct 2018, 12:48
Profit before ethics??
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45882301
BEagle
17th Oct 2018, 13:21
BAE will go to the Ball
Perhaps with plenty of well-stuffed brown envelopes....allegedly? :hmm:
MPN11
17th Oct 2018, 14:23
It’s a murky world, especially with politics involved. But at least it creates employment, and supports technology and UK Ltd.
Am I a fan of KSA? Certainly NOT.
PEI_3721
17th Oct 2018, 14:34
NN, #1. Your post suggests factual and tested evidence.
Anything to support your (political) opinion?
No it doesn’t. It’s a question. You can tell by the squiggly things at the end. The post also contains the link to a reputable news source which is the grounds for the discussion.
It is a reasonable question. I for one take the post to be the question of: Does BAE System’s reported plan to attend a business enclave in KSA indicate profits (the reason businesses exist) being put before ethics?
My own answer would probably be ‘Not in a way significantly shifted from how things were prior to recent events which I concede do seem to indicate that KSA may have an interpretation of ‘rules based behaviours’ at odds with my own.’
Dutystude
17th Oct 2018, 16:42
I don’t think BAe do virtue-signalling.
If the Saudis have carried out an assassination it is a wicked thing. But life is full of wickedness we cannot change it and if you lead with the chin all you will get is a busted jaw.
NavyNav2
17th Oct 2018, 21:31
What Orca said!! There is a lot of discussion in the media about the prevalence of 'moral apathy' when it comes to companies dealing with countries that have questionable human rights records. On the one side you have the Trump Defence "if we don't sell them xxxx someone else will' which guarantees jobs and supports UK PLC and on the other side there are those companies who would rather lose business than risk being involved with a government/country that is even suspected of wrongdoing (even if there is no factual and tested evidence - we shall see). There is no political agenda, just a genuine enquiry as to people's views on whether we should continue to engage with such countries particularly from a defence perspective. I could have gone with this link https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/are-we-willing-to-sacrifice-our-moral-standing-for-this/2018/10/12/baf7bff6-ce42-11e8-a3e6-44daa3d35ede_story.html?fbclid=IwAR3w5cNKT_qb9qOyQwvTzWXMAlL jbYJFMrrn0hwKUSMNIyPHD2B3Z6KcbhM&utm_term=.a1332bf255d9 but feel the first was a more balanced argument!!
Alber Ratman
17th Oct 2018, 22:15
No ethics with BAES and no ethics with KSA. Very well suited to each other. I will have nothing to do with either, bar slate the Brexiteers working there whom slate me as economic migrants. Pot /Kettle.
Dutystude
18th Oct 2018, 06:10
No ethics with BAES and no ethics with KSA. Very well suited to each other. I will have nothing to do with either, bar slate the Brexiteers working there whom slate me as economic migrants. Pot /Kettle.
Rubbish.
There are are no Brexiter economic migrants in KSA. They are foreign workers.
Try remaining (legally) in KSA if/when your employment ends.
Sun Who
18th Oct 2018, 06:38
Al Yamamah anyone?
Saintsman
18th Oct 2018, 09:39
The article states that BAES needs the additional sales to help it survive, which means the UK also needs these sales to protect the UK defence interests. So do ethics really count when you are selling weapons? Probably not.
And then there is the argument that if BAES doesn't sell them, some one else will...
Sun Who
18th Oct 2018, 16:34
The article states that BAES needs the additional sales to help it survive, which means the UK also needs these sales to protect the UK defence interests. So do ethics really count when you are selling weapons? Probably not.
And then there is the argument that if BAES doesn't sell them, some one else will...
BAE Systems, the company whose revenue was £18.32 billion and whose operating profit was £1.48 billion last year, needs the additional sales to help it survive. Bless.
reds & greens
18th Oct 2018, 23:05
Profit before ethics??
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45882301
is there an alternative way to do business?
Two's in
19th Oct 2018, 14:16
So do ethics really count when you are selling weapons? Probably not.
Thank you Saintsman. I hope the irony of arguing whether BAE Systems has lost the moral high ground for ignoring the alleged dismembering and murder (in that order) of a journalist, while continuing to sell advanced weapons systems that have killed thousands of Yemeni civilians isn't lost on all of you?
TURIN
19th Oct 2018, 15:29
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?
Who said that? Don't say The Manic Street Preachers.
Does it really matter when the world is being killed off by commercial airline pilots flying jets around the world causing climate change and destroying the atmosphere? Arms manufacturers may provide the tools to kill people "retail", but airliner pilots must surely be the wholesalers...
If you're going to strive for the moral high-ground take care you don't slip and fall down a crevasse...
PDR
Having spent most of my working life with B.A.C / British Aerospace / Bae systems. I heard and took part in many sessions in the bars (shock horror) discussing the inequities of the Saudi world but never knew anyone who booked a window seat over it. We may have all been little pots but the black can be catching.
Pete.
ACW418
20th Oct 2018, 15:37
Whilst I deplore what has happened I think it depends on what you have to lose that defines your stance.
ACW