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eal401
17th Oct 2018, 08:35
I am not sure if this was ever a rule, the requirement to have window blinds open for take-off and landing. Am I to assume it no longer applies, having flown a number of flights recently where no announcement requiring it is made and flight attendants ignore closed blinds? Most recent occurrence was a United flight from London to Washington where most of the blinds in my area were left shut for landing.

Pontius Navigator
17th Oct 2018, 08:49
Interesting question. Was it so that wherever they say the FAs could see the flames bursting from the engines ☺

How about on a 787, do they control the transparency for a central control?

UniFoxOs
17th Oct 2018, 09:11
Was it so that wherever they say the FAs could see the flames bursting from the engines ☺

I thought it was so that the rescuers could see inside.

It would be interesting to know if the 787 transparency would fail to transparent in the event of total loss of power as in, say, a crash.

G-CPTN
17th Oct 2018, 09:12
When landing (and taking off) at Taipei, we were instructed to have the blinds closed.

Carry0nLuggage
17th Oct 2018, 09:34
How about on a 787, do they control the transparency for a central control?

Well they certainly were on my LHR-IAD flight last month, and very annoying it was. The other thing about them was they weren't completely opaque. In my side, they were a sort of inky blue, making the clouds below look like they were shot through a day-for-night filter whereas on the port, sunny, side they were more of a green colour.

I would expect them to need power to maintain the shading.

Drifting back to the OP, they were fully transparent for take off and landing. drifting away again, one satellite control centre I visit as floor to ceiling shading and these go fully opaque, very Bladerunner.

DaveReidUK
17th Oct 2018, 10:24
I am not sure if this was ever a rule, the requirement to have window blinds open for take-off and landing. Am I to assume it no longer applies, having flown a number of flights recently where no announcement requiring it is made and flight attendants ignore closed blinds?

As a long-time PPRuNe member, you will no doubt be aware that there have been numerous threads on the subject over the years.

As far as I can see, airlines are free to make up their own rules and policies regarding window blinds in general, though there are regulations regarding the blinds on doors and emergency exits, which are required to be open during takeoff and landing, for obvious reasons.

BusyB
17th Oct 2018, 10:28
Blinds sometimes closed for security reasons in some countries.

sitigeltfel
17th Oct 2018, 10:49
The blinds need to be up because there is a competition between crews to see how many they can force to pop down during a hard landing.

Despite what they tell you, this is what they mean when they say they are performing a "blind landing".

eal401
17th Oct 2018, 11:32
I thought it was so that the rescuers could see inside.

It would be interesting to know if the 787 transparency would fail to transparent in the event of total loss of power as in, say, a crash.

That was always my understanding too - re: seeing into the plane. And I am sure more used to be made of having them open. Not experienced a situation where they have been asked to be kept shut that's for sure!

For the 787 windows, good question. They definitely can be centrally controlled.

Shack37
17th Oct 2018, 11:47
I flew Vueling from Bilbao to Malaga on Monday (2 days ago) and announcements were made to open window blinds on take off and landing.

lomapaseo
17th Oct 2018, 14:18
When landing (and taking off) at Taipei, we were instructed to have the blinds closed.

I knew this at the time, but flying in first class I often took videos out the window during approach just to document what the big deal was. Never could tell from the videos the difference between wooden gun barrels and metal. On the ground in a country which shall be un-named, I got close enough to notice the fighter jets along the taxiways were just wooden 2-D versions

krismiler
17th Oct 2018, 14:34
When flying over certain countries such as Iraq, blinds may be lowered and navigation lights turned off for obvious safety reasons. Cabin lights are dimmed for night take off and landing so that passengers have some night vision in the event of an evacuation

Crews having control on the B787 is fantastic as a window shade up with light streaming in can be quite irritating.

WingNut60
17th Oct 2018, 17:12
......... as a window shade up with light streaming in can be quite irritating.

Especially for those who are easily irritated.
And as can be being forced to close the shade so that the pillock next to you can sleep in the middle of the day.

BehindBlueEyes
17th Oct 2018, 17:51
I’ve actually had, whilst sitting in the window seat, someone lean across me and pull the blind down!

PC767
17th Oct 2018, 17:56
This is a reasonably new requirement at my airline driven by EASA regs. I note that my commuting Aer line has done so for some time. I believe that it is for rescue teams to see inside (if there still is an inside) after an incident, but also for passengers to be situationally aware of their environment. On many aircraft Once the cabin crew are strapped in their view outside is restricted. In many cases passengers note problems and things which don’t look right and inform the cabin crew. Whether they like it or not, passengers are part of the teams and assume some responsibility for safety.

Gertrude the Wombat
17th Oct 2018, 18:07
I would expect them to need power to maintain the shading.
They certainly get hot, so they most consume power. At, one assumes, a rate lower than the fuel that would otherwise have been needed to carry the blinds around.

DaveReidUK
17th Oct 2018, 19:04
This is a reasonably new requirement at my airline driven by EASA regs.

Interesting. Can you point us at those EASA regulations ?

ehwatezedoing
18th Oct 2018, 14:56
I’ve actually had, whilst sitting in the window seat, someone lean across me and pull the blind down!
A few years ago whilst sitting in the window and looking out at the same time, an “old and grumpy” Air Canada flight attendant leaned accross and pulled the blind down!

Toronto-Lima. We were overflying Cuba. Her argument was word for word: “There is nothing to see, people want to sleep!”
Riiiiight at 5pm! On a one hour (back!) time zone change flight! She probably wanted her pax to go in sleep mode asap so she could go in hidding mode. I put it back up, looking at her, saying nothing.


One of those reaching Gspot on B787 playing with its window shading controls in the galley :*

DaveReidUK
18th Oct 2018, 16:48
an “old and grumpy” Air Canada flight attendant

Tautology, surely ?

racedo
18th Oct 2018, 16:57
I’ve actually had, whilst sitting in the window seat, someone lean across me and pull the blind down!

Yup me too on an internal US flight, told him next time book the window seat, aggressive pout for rest of
flight.
TBF had he asked I may have lowered them but attitude meant no way, even the F.A. told him off when he
tried to be aggressive about it with him and then he was abusive rest of flight.

Shack37
19th Oct 2018, 15:17
Originally posted by Wingnuts

Especially for those who are easily irritated.
And as can be being forced to close the shade so that the pillock next to you can sleep in the middle of the day.


That pillock could be on a connecting flight after an overnighter.

lomapaseo
19th Oct 2018, 15:29
That pillock could be on a connecting flight after an overnighter.

One hold carry eyeshades and earplugs to aide in napping during long commutes. Personally I just look out the window and count sheep

G-CPTN
19th Oct 2018, 22:04
Personally I just look out the window and count sheep
Try counting the pigs that fly by . . .

WingNut60
19th Oct 2018, 22:15
Originally posted by Wingnuts
That pillock could be on a connecting flight after an overnighter.

....and couldn't sleep during the night flight but needs to sleep during the day flight.
Once again the 99% must make concessions for the 1%
If the pillock was to explain and ask politely I would certainly try to comply.
But it's not a g..dd..mned right.

Thanks lomapaseo (https://www.pprune.org/members/48942-lomapaseo), that would be my suggestion too.

I have flown direct connectors Perth Oz to Bogota six times in the last four months.
Never once felt it necessary to insist that blinds be lowered to accomodate my personal whims.

Jetstream67
19th Oct 2018, 22:19
At Kai Tak closing the blinds saved on cabin upholstery cleaning . .

ExSp33db1rd
20th Oct 2018, 00:59
...She probably wanted her pax to go in sleep mode asap so she could go in hiding mode.

Same reason that the cabin crew ask the flight deck to put on the seat belt signs ! ( oh yes they do )

DaveReidUK
20th Oct 2018, 08:51
This is a reasonably new requirement at my airline driven by EASA regs.Interesting. Can you point us at those EASA regulations ?

And answer came there none ...

A trawl through EASA regs fails to turn up any requirements re the open/closed state of window blinds at any stage of the flight, other than in an emergency situation.

The only other reference is to the safety briefings before takeoff and landing, where passengers should be advised as to whether the airline requires them to be open or closed at that point.

In other words, an airline that requests blinds to be open for takeoff is conforming to EASA regulations, but so is an airline that requests they should be closed.

El Grifo
20th Oct 2018, 11:30
On a recent BA 787 trip to San Jose, I was surprised to find that my window seemed to keep defaulting to dark if I did not look out of it for more than 5 mins ! I decided to set to bright again and observe.
I was surprised to see a phantom hand appearing from the row behind darkening my window. The owner of said hand was in the rearmost row of Premium Economy, a slightly tighter space than most. I simply put my seat in full recline which moved my window control outwith his reach !
If only he had simply asked !!
El G.

meleagertoo
21st Oct 2018, 14:21
I very much doubt that it has anything to do with "rescuers looking inside". Why would they want to? What would it tell them? How would they reach the windows, and why would they be doing that instead of getting on and rescuing people?

Far more likely it is to enable cabin crew/pax to asess the risk before opening doors/exits in an evacuatuion (eg water or fire outside).

lomapaseo
21st Oct 2018, 16:19
I was surprised to see a phantom hand appearing from the row behind darkening my window. The owner of said hand was in the rearmost row of Premium Economy, a slightly tighter space than most. I simply put my seat in full recline which moved my window control outwith his reach !

If I have a window seat and any part of a window shows behind the seat back in front of or behind me then I claim my share of up-or-down. Most of the time I simply wait for the nearby occupants to be distracted by sleep or the loo. Same goes for people who leave their seat back relined into my space and then hop off to the loo. I simply kick it upright and they never seem to notice when they come back from the loo

double_barrel
21st Oct 2018, 16:46
I’ve actually had, whilst sitting in the window seat, someone lean across me and pull the blind down!
Sorry, I thought you were asleep. And the intense sunlight made it impossible for me to see my laptop screen. And there was nothing to see - perhaps they should paint a cloudscape on the inside of the blinds.

DaveReidUK
21st Oct 2018, 17:41
I very much doubt that it has anything to do with "rescuers looking inside". Why would they want to? What would it tell them? How would they reach the windows, and why would they be doing that instead of getting on and rescuing people?

Well said. File with other similar urban myths.

ExSp33db1rd
21st Oct 2018, 23:53
Won't be long before the blinds will just be gigital image video screens depicting whatever territory one is currently flying over. Remember the time before seat-back viewing, when there was just once screen at the front of the cabin, and some airlines showed the pilot's view forward - great for cross-wind landings ! I think this was deemed cruel and unusual punishment, and didn't become universally adopted.

Gertrude the Wombat
22nd Oct 2018, 00:02
Won't be long before the blinds will just be gigital image video screens depicting whatever territory one is currently flying over.
Ah, we risk entering Magic Christian territory I fear ...

WingNut60
22nd Oct 2018, 00:09
Sorry, I thought you were asleep. And the intense sunlight made it impossible for me to see my laptop screen. And there was nothing to see - perhaps they should paint a cloudscape on the inside of the blinds.

Yes, I was asleep. And the whack in the ear you just got was entirely reflexive. Here's a tissue, please stop bleeding on me.

double_barrel
22nd Oct 2018, 08:15
Yes, I was asleep. And the whack in the ear you just got was entirely reflexive. Here's a tissue, please stop bleeding on me.

No worries thanks. I informed the cabin crew that I had been assaulted by an insane neighbor who believed he had the right to control the blast of sunlight affecting some 12 people, even while asleep. They were very sympathetic and moved me to 1st class.

WingNut60
22nd Oct 2018, 08:39
No worries thanks. I informed the cabin crew that I had been assaulted by an insane neighbor who believed he had the right to control the blast of sunlight affecting some 12 people, even while asleep. They were very sympathetic and moved me to 1st class.

Oh, you canvassed the other eleven first. Sorry, I didn't know that, Richard.

double_barrel
22nd Oct 2018, 08:48
Oh, you canvassed the other eleven first. Sorry, I didn't know that, Richard.
I canvassed the one who was awake. I thought it reasonable to expect that those who were asleep would prefer not to have an intense blast of sunlight on their faces. I will send a bottle of champagne back to you, it might relax you.

WingNut60
22nd Oct 2018, 08:58
I canvassed the one who was awake. I thought it reasonable to expect that those who were asleep would prefer not to have an intense blast of sunlight on their faces. I will send a bottle of champagne back to you, it might relax you.

Mid-afternoon flight and 12/13 of the passengers are sleeping.
Nope. It's just you Richard.