Ryanair let cabin crew sleep on the floor.

[El Capitano]

Again a disrespect for their personnel at the highest level by Ryanair.

During the passover of the remains of a tropical storm in Portugal, due to the very bad weather several planes could not depart and both crew and passengers were stranded.

Ryanair let the cabin crew sleep on the floor and promised that they could later use the VIP room to rest. This VIP room closed at 2300 and so all cabin crew had to spend the night at the floor.

Ryanair explained that due to the many stranded airplanes all hotels were full. A bit strange at a city and their surroundings with over 400 hotels!

Again an example where Ryanair does not take care for their personnel. Instaid, it treats them like slaves.

Ryanair cabin crew and pilots, when will this stop?
Get yourself united and arrange a pan European long lasting strike, no base excluded!

Get this know by the general public and politicians, keep on organising actions till you get this scam management out!

E.C.

[wiggy]

Do we know if these crewmembers slept on the floor and then subsequently operated?

If so I’d be thinking FTLs, rest and definitions of things such as “suitable accommodation”....

[Skipname]

Ryanair and "suitable accommodation" do not go in the same sentence.

If you ever go through Stansted Airport you will see Ryanair's cabin crew trying to sell you priority boarding and train tickets. All those cabin crews are on airport standby and are forced to mingle with passengers which is in breach of FTL. It is not uncommon to be called up to fly after few hours of selling priority boarding and train tickets.
Also until recently Ryanair did not have an FTL compliant crew room in Stansted for the crew on airport standby. Now they do, but there is not enough room for all the crew on airport standby.

Few years ago I sent a complaint about it to IAA but I have never heard back from them.

[fox niner]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x444/1570f2ca_f438_4512_a1e3_95ae89bc38c5_500fa942f78316f13009abf db1c11c72baa79127.jpeg

[rotorwills]

I can't believe that. Seen many things in my time but this very near the top. It's a disgrace if this photo and the postings are true. I am very sceptical about this. I checked the date, no we are not in April. Surely someone will come on and tell us it was a stunt. Please own up for my sake alone.

[ShyTorque]

Cabin crew aren't there to sell tickets, they are there for the safety of the passengers. As such they should be afforded the same rest facilities as the cockpit crew. Hopefully the CAA will put a stop to this sort of management stupidity.

[Auxtank]

I can't believe that. Seen many things in my time but this very near the top. It's a disgrace if this photo and the postings are true. I am very sceptical about this. I checked the date, no we are not in April. Surely someone will come on and tell us it was a stunt. Please own up for my sake alone.

According to the Express 20 mins ago;

"The post was also shared on Twitter and called on Ryanair's chief of operations, Peter Bellew, to explain. He replied with a tweet, confirming the photo was real. Bellew posted:
“Unfortunately. All hotels were completely booked out in Malaga. The storm created huge damage in Portugal. Later after this the crew moved to VIP lounge. Apologies to the crew we could not find accommodation.”
Peter Bellew, Ryanair's chief of operations"

[Mr Angry from Purley]

If they flew the next day the IAA would have FR by the short and curly's. These things do happen in extremis but where were the Nigel's. Any Captain I know would have been ranting at the Company until the situation was fixed.

[172_driver]

According to the Express 20 mins ago;

"The post was also shared on Twitter and called on Ryanair's chief of operations, Peter Bellew, to explain. He replied with a tweet, confirming the photo was real. Bellew posted:
“Unfortunately. All hotels were completely booked out in Malaga. The storm created huge damage in Portugal. Later after this the crew moved to VIP lounge. Apologies to the crew we could not find accommodation.”
Peter Bellew, Ryanair's chief of operations"

I bet in his next internal memo he was pleased by the crew bringing the plane and pax back to base the following morning ;)

The photo may be staged for media. Unless they're sharing bodily warmth because of an unheated crew room, I can't believe they snuggle up like that. Still doesn't change the fact they had no proper place to rest and most likely operated next day.

[Skipname]

If they flew the next day the IAA would have FR by the short and curly's. These things do happen in extremis but where were the Nigel's. Any Captain I know would have been ranting at the Company until the situation was fixed.

I wouldn't hold my breath. I suspect IAA are deep into Ryanair's pocket.

[Jwscud]

I bet in his next internal memo he was pleased by the crew bringing the plane and pax back to base the following morning ;)

The photo may be staged for media. Unless they're sharing bodily warmth because of an unheated crew room, I can't believe they snuggle up like that. Still doesn't change the fact they had no proper place to rest and most likely operated next day.



In some airlines that would be considered almost monkish behaviour. Plenty of crew enjoy sharing a bit of mutual warmth during layovers, unanticipated or otherwise :}

[fox niner]

This Peter Bellew Ryanair executive is lying.
there were 1800+ hotel rooms in the malaga area that night. Also, the crew was not moved to the Vip lounge as it was closed after 2300 hours. So they ended up under these printers.
https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1051796300071612416

[172_driver]

In some airlines that would be considered almost monkish behaviour. Plenty of crew enjoy sharing a bit of mutual warmth during layovers, unanticipated or otherwise :}

You must be working for a British airline, that's where all stories I have heard come from... :}

[Satoshi Nakamoto]

You must be working for a British airline, that's where all stories I have heard come from... :}

It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that this photo has been staged.

[TBSC]

This Peter Bellew Ryanair executive is lying.
there were 1800+ hotel rooms in the malaga area that night.
Says (or in fact guesses) a 20 yo aerosexu .. err 'aviation analyst' without any proof.

[TBSC]

Any Captain I know would have been ranting at the Company until the situation was fixed.
And if (seemingly) it did not work out he/she would step up and lead the crew to one of those available hotels on their own expense. Who cares if (or when) you'd get reinbursed if the other choice is the floor of the crew room?
Btw IMHO it's a staged photo. Quite unrealistic to sleep in such strange position, shoes on, so close to each other (when plenty of space is availabe around) and with the lights on.

[Elephant and Castle]

It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that this photo has been staged.

What is obvious is who you are : Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 1

But say you are correct and they did not sleep like that on the floor, they just stood around all night waiting for sunrise. Does that make it any better?

[highfive]

Allegedly:
Ryanair belittle crew.
Ryanair assist crew into demeaning themselves.
Ryanair belittle customers
Ryanair despise and disparage its employees.

Regrettably, professional trained airline crew turn a blind eye and work there, despite the many alternatives available in the employment market.

The classic case of Stockholm syndrome?

Folks you really need to look at yourselves, and ask Why ?

[richardthethird]

Well said. The whole world is recruiting! Why stay at this shower of ****e?

[compton3bravo]

Living just along the coast from Malaga I can assure everyone that there were plenty of rooms available, you might have to take a short taxi ride ( more expense) but the rooms would be definitely cheaper than Malaga city (except Marbella area). Even if the photo was partly staged you cannot blame them for the way they were treated. Absolutely disgusting.

[BluSdUp]

Many a Commuting pilot has used the Crew room as a hotel.
I even found the Base captain sleeping in the office one morning , before an early duty.
Some years ago mind you.

[Nurse2Pilot]

What's stopping the captain of the flight crew from booking a hotel and taking his crew along with him for a proper rest? Not the best solution, I know, but just curious?

[JumpJumpJump]

Not even the captain alone...

35 seconds on Booking dot com.. similar deals on other sites, tripadvisor etc and I can find 193 properties within ten kms of the airport in Malaga, beds in hostels starting from 12 euros, hotel rooms starting from 35 euros. If you know you need to overnight, grow up, find it yourself and get back to the airport in time for your flight home. Then invoice.

Just to quash any other rumours here... the crew did not operted the next day.

[Alpine Flyer]

If the crew had a layover - planned or unplanned - in Malaga, it was Ryanair's duty to provide them with suitable accommodation. Unless they got it, they cannot be considered "rested" for the return flight.

Unfortunately it is a design error of EU aviation rules, that they apply to everyone in principle but how they are actually applied is decided by national authorities which may or may not have an agenda of their own, rather than a common European aviation authority which could enforce a single way of reading those rules.

[JumpJumpJump]

I get that it is the airlines responsibility. I personally would have elected a hostel or hotel over the crew room and then argued the toss after.

[JumpJumpJump]

I also want to make it known that I understand and backthe crew in choosing to bring this to public attention

[Nurse2Pilot]

What if the crew picked up their stuff, found themselves a hotel room, got proper rest on a proper bed.... but did all this from their own pocket, are they considered "rested" and can they then work on the return flight?

[vikingivesterled]

What's stopping the captain of the flight crew from booking a hotel and taking his crew along with him for a proper rest? Not the best solution, I know, but just curious?

If you start down that route you are quickly expected to do that for every layover. Cheap upfront financing for FR. And invoicing after the fact is a slow process there, where you are likely to only see maybe halve the money again due to some limit rule they will drag out. Crew fought hard for company supplied overnighting but there will be some run-in problems until control is up to scratch with a full sized for all eventualitiest list of pre-agreed and contracted suppliers around every airport.

[Meester proach]

I’m hoping they didn’t report for duty after that ( if true ). In no way can that be adequate rest.

[Rated De]

Not even the captain alone...

35 seconds on Booking dot com.. similar deals on other sites, tripadvisor etc and I can find 193 properties within ten kms of the airport in Malaga, beds in hostels starting from 12 euros, hotel rooms starting from 35 euros. If you know you need to overnight, grow up, find it yourself and get back to the airport in time for your flight home. Then invoice.


This is the point where self respect ought kick in.
Recently in Sydney, a rather large thunderstorm stranded many thousands of passengers.

The crews including pilots, totaling some 60 odd staff were told the same crap regarding hotel 'availability'
Of course it is true that there were no hotels that night at $35 per night, there were hotels.
Any pilot, particularly a Captain, knows he or she would find it incredibly difficult to defend him or herself the next day were an incident to occur. Sleeping in a terminal is not "accommodation of a suitable standard". Yet sleep in the terminal they did and operate the next day.

1. Turn on ipad
2. Book room
3. Proceed to hotel and sleep.
4. Turn phone on the next day when sufficient rest obtained.
5. Send invoice to company.
6. Passenger home.

They did get a nice group email thanking them for their service from their 'manager' who reports suggest enjoyed the storm from the comfort of her own bed.

[Nurse2Pilot]

If you start down that route you are quickly expected to do that for every layover. Cheap upfront financing for FR. And invoicing after the fact is a slow process there, where you are likely to only see maybe halve the money again due to some limit rule they will drag out. Crew fought hard for company supplied overnighting but there will be some run-in problems until control is up to scratch with a full sized for all eventualitiest list of pre-agreed and contracted suppliers around every airport.

As opposed to the more immediate danger of fatigued crew doing their duties? Would it not be more evidence of FR's shortcomings if captains were able to produce memos or emails of "no hotels available" and then receipts of him booking accomodations for his crew for that same night? Even if FR would eventually only reimburse 50% or even 0% of the cost, would these captains not be able to use this situation to their advantage within FR or even when applying to another airline?

[Rated De]

As opposed to the more immediate danger of fatigued crew doing their duties? Would it not be more evidence of FR's shortcomings if captains were able to produce memos or emails of "no hotels available" and then receipts of him booking accomodations for his crew for that same night? Even if FR would eventually only reimburse 50% or even 0% of the cost, would these captains not be able to use this situation to their advantage within FR or even when applying to another airline?

That is a pertinent point.
The regulatory environment provides all the protection from an employer, even one as adversarial as O'Leary with an IR posture the envy of most airline management.
Using the regulatory protection available requires:

1. Knowledge of the regulations
2. When to apply them necessitating the PIC have cojones (non-gender specific)

In the modern day adversarial airline IR model, many pilots adhere to the company documents which whilst oftentimes incorporate the statute, gloss over things like strict liability and instead offer 'company pleasing' alternatives.
Sadly with big mortgages and little knowledge of the statutory protection, many pilots surrender point two when signing on.

[wiggy]

Just as a general point whilst it’s often possible to whistle up hotel room, perhaps with a bit of effort, I’ve seen at one instance of Force Majure where the only sensible choice was for crew to sleep in offices and briefing rooms.... LHR, snow and several thousand stranded pax being dispersed to on and off airport hotels .... and public transport going to hell in a handcart before crew were stood down.

However there was never any question of any of those crewmembers being required to operate the next day.

[aviationfanatic]

https://twitter.com/Ryanair/status/1052559295718539264

[giggitygiggity]

https://twitter.com/Ryanair/status/1052559295718539264
Oops. That camera looks very sneaky though, are they being filmed without their knowledge? Will certainly be checking my (non RYR) crew room later this evening!

[jonesyinthesky]

Oops. That camera looks very sneaky though, are they being filmed without their knowledge? Will certainly be checking my (non RYR) crew room later this evening!
its common practice, loads of cash in those crew rooms, never bothered me when i was there

[Banana Joe]

It might have been scripted, but their action still has a meaning: they were left there with nobody reachable.

[aviationfanatic]

It might have been scripted, but their action still has a meaning: they were left there with nobody reachable.

Sorry Banana Joe, just wondering, how do you know that nobody was reachable? thanks

[TBSC]

Classis case of 'you pay peanuts...'
Cunning plan, top notch execution.

[ShyTorque]

What if the crew picked up their stuff, found themselves a hotel room, got proper rest on a proper bed.... but did all this from their own pocket, are they considered "rested" and can they then work on the return flight?

This isn't unusual - speaking as one expected to do this for every night stop. I keep the receipts then claim back expenses necessarily spent on behalf of the company.

Seems the point here is how much effort the company in question will put in on behalf of their employees' well being.

[JPJP]

https://twitter.com/Ryanair/status/1052559295718539264

So they spent the night sitting in straight backed chairs, in the crew room. With hotels available.

Ryanair cunningly videos their own poor treatment of their own employees. Great catch. :suspect:

[Nurse2Pilot]

This isn't unusual - speaking as one expected to do this for every night stop. I keep the receipts then claim back expenses necessarily spent on behalf of the company.

Seems the point here is how much effort the company in question will put in on behalf of their employees' well being.Well, if they won't do it, what's stopping the captain from stepping up and then charging the company back afterwards? We can discuss for years how XYZ company is bad and is abusing its employees and the captain can either be limited by his company's lazyness or he can step up and show them how it's done. Worse case situation is that the captain is out of pocket for that expense but I'm sure anyone smart enough to get to that seat can also use this situation to his advantage, yes?


Ryanair cunningly videos their own poor treatment of their own employees. Great catch. :suspect:
Are they (FR) not shooting themselves in the foot here? Okay, the crew staged the picture, but really, who is responsible for the crew in the first place?

[wiggy]

Well, if they won't do it, what's stopping the captain from stepping up and then charging the company back afterwards? We can discuss for years how XYZ company is bad and is abusing its employees and the captain can either be limited by his company's lazyness or he can step up and show them how it's done. Worse case situation is that the captain is out of pocket for that expense but I'm sure anyone smart enough to get to that seat can also use this situation to his advantage, yes?


I think before rushing to assume "the captain" should have stepped up and solved this accomodation problem it's worth establishing if there was one even involved in this situation...some airlines have crew on different itinaries...

As for the financial angle - A question - How good at FR at reimbursing staff for money spent on non-pre approved ad hoc expenses?

Agree with the comments about the images, it doesn't matter what was staged or not, it does seem the crew were left without "suitable accommodaton".

[ShyTorque]

Well, if they won't do it, what's stopping the captain from stepping up and then charging the company back afterwards? We can discuss for years how XYZ company is bad and is abusing its employees and the captain can either be limited by his company's lazyness or he can step up and show them how it's done. Worse case situation is that the captain is out of pocket for that expense but I'm sure anyone smart enough to get to that seat can also use this situation to his advantage, yes

I'm not sure why you're asking me that, ask Ryanair!
As I said, I have to do it and I do get reimbursed where necessary. I have no idea how that particular company deal with a situation like this - although it's obvious what they ought to do if they expect their crew to be fit to fly.

[aviationfanatic]

Hi Peter and/or Kenny,

how are you these days?

Not sure who those people are however, I just think that nowadays news are not balanced at all, yes, it might have been a protest but to me it seems that people just enjoy saying bad things about FR regardless of what they do.
I am not defending them, I am just looking at it from a rational point of view. There are always 2 sides of the story!
In saying that, I don't think the "perfect employer" exists.....

[flyingmed]

Lets hope this trick doesn't lead to dismissals due to defamation. It's very apparent things in Ryanair need to change but play acting wont get you very far!
I've had an unscheduled overnight with the airline I work for during similar circumstances, it was the captain who sorted the problem as our operations were completely unable to deal with the disruptions. He was repaid by the company in the following paycheck, not ideal but it worked out fine for everyone.

[BluSdUp]

Flyingmed
That is how its done as a last resort.
Unfortunately some Captains think their responsibility stops once the park brake is set.
Find a hotel, get Company to pay. Part of the job if Company fails.

Playing Film Director: Not part of the job.
Sorry to say, but this story is a little to childish!

[Sonikt]

Playing Film Director: Not part of the job.
Sorry to say, but this story is a little to childish!

Childish, maybe.

But also a very very smart piece of PR, on so many levels.

​​​​​​MOL is starting to discover that at some point the children grow up and start to play you at your own games...

​​​

[Nurse2Pilot]

I think before rushing to assume "the captain" should have stepped up and solved this accomodation problem it's worth establishing if there was one even involved in this situation...some airlines have crew on different itinaries...

As for the financial angle - A question - How good at FR at reimbursing staff for money spent on non-pre approved ad hoc expenses?What do you mean? How can there be a stranded crew but no stranded captains? As for reimbursement, if FR repays the expense, then good, if not, then I'm sure this would still be useful to some people at some point, yes?


I'm not sure why you're asking me that, ask Ryanair!
As I said, I have to do it and I do get reimbursed where necessary. I have no idea how that particular company deal with a situation like this - although it's obvious what they ought to do if they expect their crew to be fit to fly.Not asking you per se, but asking the captains here, really. We all know that FR won't do it for whatever reason, so what's stopping a captain from stepping up now and putting pressure on FR to reimburse him later on?

[Sonikt]

Ryanair cunningly videos their own poor treatment of their own employees. Great catch. :suspect:

Do you think said employees did not know there was CCTV in the crew room?

​​​​Cunning indeed!

FR management simply do not know how or when to STFU. This is their achilles heel...

[Sonikt]

Lets hope this trick doesn't lead to dismissals due to defamation.

One word:

McLibel (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_case)

It does not matter if the photo was staged or not; what the photo portrayed (poor treatment of FR employees) is a matter of fact, which FR have themselves now confirmed by the CCTV.

So there is no defamation case here

[flyingmed]

This photo is definitely defamatory. It is a blatant attempt to show crew being mistreated by their employer. If you work for a company and post anything misleading or false (be it photos or text) about that company on Instagram/Facebook/Linkedin or any other public forum you are subject to libel. This photo was misleading AND false. The path to a better Ryanair is a tightrope, the unions (I hope) dot the i's and cross the t's because any step out of line only falls into Ryanairs hands and I really think this post if it was true would be brilliant, but the fact that it is fake has really undermined the process of crew recognition. Wasn't someone sued a few years ago after posting false comments about Ryanair on PPrune?

I do not condone the treatment of crew (especially cabin crew) by Ryanair however we are all adults working in a highly professional job and this just seemed like a very childish tactic!

The crew apparently stayed the night in the VIP lounge of the airport and then positioned home the next day but did not operate so the legal side of FTL's are not an issue here.

[Sonikt]

This photo is definitely defamatory. It is a blatant attempt to show crew being mistreated by their employer. If you work for a company and post anything misleading or false (be it photos or text) about that company on Instagram/Facebook/Linkedin or any other public forum you are subject to libel. This photo was misleading AND false. The path to a better Ryanair is a tightrope, the unions (I hope) dot the i's and cross the t's because any step out of line only falls into Ryanairs hands and I really think this post if it was true would be brilliant, but the fact that it is fake has really undermined the process of crew recognition. Wasn't someone sued a few years ago after posting false comments about Ryanair on PPrune?

I do not condone the treatment of crew (especially cabin crew) by Ryanair however we are all adults working in a highly professional job and this just seemed like a very childish tactic!

The crew apparently stayed the night in the VIP lounge of the airport and then positioned home the next day but did not operate so the legal side of FTL's are not an issue here.

Think outside the box

McDonalds actually won the McLibel case on paper...but the court case itself simply drew huge media attention and publicized the companies dubious practices so ultimately it was a pyrrhic victory which did huge damage to the brand.

The case is widely regarded as the ultimate corporate own-goal in PR circles.

[flyingmed]

That is one way to look at it but I am currently seeing outrage by the public towards Ryanair when they see this article, however once they see that this photo is a fake the outrage has been turned to the crew. It is a hard enough battle to get recognition with public support, and the crew in Ryanair need all the momentum they can get. Part of the problem in Ryanair is that they mistreated their adult crew by treating them like children, this crew proved a point and acted like children. I am trying to see your positive view on this Sonikt however I can only see this as a setback and contradictory to what these crews (and most of the airline world) want to see with a unionized Ryanair.

[vikingivesterled]

Or the crew simply staged a friendy reminder to crew control that they where still in the crew room, and as a result got moved to a lounge.
But the picture got spread and because both sides are full of hot heads who don't know when to be the better person and pipe down, it got blown out of all proportions. Culminating mgmt had hoped with the release of a surveilance video for the benefit of the general public, that with afterthought could lead to no good since it is crew unrest not customers that have been causing disruptions lately.
Sometimes thinking twice before talking is required both when it comes to announcing cancellations without specifics and airing internal laundry in public.

[JPJP]

Do you think said employees did not know there was CCTV in the crew room?

​​​​Cunning indeed!

FR management simply do not know how or when to STFU. This is their achilles heel...

I was using the arcane power of sarcastic humor. Perhaps too subltly (in hindsight). I agree with you.

Ryanair filmed themselves failing to provide their employees with suitable accommodation.

[Onesixty2four]

General public: "Ohhhhh, I'm ouraged at the treatment of these people."
"Ohhhhh, I do say, a ticket to Malaga for 20 quid. Wonder how they can fly multi-million dollar airplanes around for that sort of price?".

[Nurse2Pilot]

You can win the battle but lose the war. FR may look bad by not providing their crew suitable accommodations, the video they released about the fake picture only makes them look *less* bad.